Currently the an SMG of equivalent level will beat out an AR in CQC. The issue is that so many people are using militia SMG which are nearly useless. With an advanced level assault SMG you can smash a GEK user in CQC.

On a more general note this thread is exactly the kind of belly aching I predicted we would get with the Flaylock nerf.

Here are the facts:
1) The flaylock was OP to the point of being the only weapon used in PC matches. It was a side arm and meant to be a backup weapon, now it is.

2) MD and SR are much more powerful than AR when used correctly. Correctly is the key there since these weapons are intended as specialist weapons they are harder to use and they are more situational. The assault SR is comparable to the AR.

3) The presences of Proto AR in public matches really just means that players don't know how to do math, not that the weapon is OP. Players who run full proto will finish the game without making a profit if they die two times in a match. While this brings a smile to my face every time I kill a proto user in a pub it also makes me wonder about these players motivations. Even beyond the profit issues the proto AR is not significantly better than the advanced AR. A few builds ago all weapons had there damage output flattened. Prior to that having a proto weapon was like carrying arround Zeus' lightning bolt, instant death for all who would oppose you, now that is less of an issue.

4) Stop your tears, everything in this game will change. If you've been here long enough you've already seen it change several times. Just wait a few months and logi will be the flavor of the month again and AR will once again be outclassed by every other weapon in every area of engagement.

ARs have been OP since chromosome. its just that sharpeshooter helped other guns keep up better, so people QQ'd. if sharp shooter gave HMGs AR range imagine how much range an AR had with sharp shooter? yeah, that was OP

The AR since uprising, has been the only effective weapon at pretty much everything except AV, and even then, with vehicles the way they are ive seen ARs blow up tanks (concentrated fire, but still)

duvoule dps = 509 (this is without proficiency, and damage mods, just the blanket 10%). so in one second of concentrated fire you can down 2-3 militia suits, without head shots, up to your max range
in 2 seconds you can down my heavy.

this is not just 509 of spread and pray howevery like an HMG which can't be aimed. you have pinpoint accuracy, no recoil, negligible dispersion, and supreme hip fire accuracy. your reload is as fast as lightening, and the flexibility of the suit allows you to carry nano hives for your self. out ranging all but a sniper and scambler rifle (lasers suck so they dnt really count) at mid range everything is your *****.

in close range the hip fire accuracy means that downing shotgun scouts and heavies especially is a pinch.

so, that 509 dps can be effective at all important ranges unchallenged.


people complained about flaylocks in PC owning people, but remember the flaylocks were only being used at close range where they were designed to be used, outside that they are useless unless the guy is standing still. and you needed adv and proto to have any effect on enemies. adv and proto SMGs would wreck **** just as bad as flaylocks in CQC. but flaylocks arent spray and pray chip damage machines so they had to be nerfed.


well, people complained that flaylocks were being dual weilded, proto SMGs can be dual wielded too... and they are just as effective.

how about this one... "the only thing people are using are flaylocks they kill everything.. nerf, nerf, derp, nerf". well, now everything is going to be all AR. you can literally, use ARs to do everything in the game. and if you get enough people you can take down, tanks, LAVs, dropships so fast that your AR is more effective than AV.

wanna pwn in mid range, use an AR, wanna kill a heavy with an HMG, use an AR beats it at all ranges (dnt say CQC only works if guys standing still), whanna use a shotgun or SMG for CQC, just use an AR the hip fire is better and you'll get more consistant results.... seeing a trend here? besides grenades ARs pretty handle everything elses job better.

The GAR needs to be faceraped with a balancebat, no matter how much the AR scrubs cry about it.

ARs have been OP since chromosome. its just that sharpeshooter helped other guns keep up better, so people QQ'd. if sharp shooter gave HMGs AR range imagine how much range an AR had with sharp shooter? yeah, that was OP

The AR since uprising, has been the only effective weapon at pretty much everything except AV, and even then, with vehicles the way they are ive seen ARs blow up tanks (concentrated fire, but still)

duvoule dps = 509 (this is without proficiency, and damage mods, just the blanket 10%). so in one second of concentrated fire you can down 2-3 militia suits, without head shots, up to your max range
in 2 seconds you can down my heavy.

this is not just 509 of spread and pray howevery like an HMG which can't be aimed. you have pinpoint accuracy, no recoil, negligible dispersion, and supreme hip fire accuracy. your reload is as fast as lightening, and the flexibility of the suit allows you to carry nano hives for your self. out ranging all but a sniper and scambler rifle (lasers suck so they dnt really count) at mid range everything is your *****.

in close range the hip fire accuracy means that downing shotgun scouts and heavies especially is a pinch.

so, that 509 dps can be effective at all important ranges unchallenged.


people complained about flaylocks in PC owning people, but remember the flaylocks were only being used at close range where they were designed to be used, outside that they are useless unless the guy is standing still. and you needed adv and proto to have any effect on enemies. adv and proto SMGs would wreck **** just as bad as flaylocks in CQC. but flaylocks arent spray and pray chip damage machines so they had to be nerfed.


well, people complained that flaylocks were being dual weilded, proto SMGs can be dual wielded too... and they are just as effective.

how about this one... "the only thing people are using are flaylocks they kill everything.. nerf, nerf, derp, nerf". well, now everything is going to be all AR. you can literally, use ARs to do everything in the game. and if you get enough people you can take down, tanks, LAVs, dropships so fast that your AR is more effective than AV.

wanna pwn in mid range, use an AR, wanna kill a heavy with an HMG, use an AR beats it at all ranges (dnt say CQC only works if guys standing still), whanna use a shotgun or SMG for CQC, just use an AR the hip fire is better and you'll get more consistant results.... seeing a trend here? besides grenades ARs pretty handle everything elses job better.

Key difference, SMG isn't a splash damage weapon.

4) Stop your tears, everything in this game will change. If you've been here long enough you've already seen it change several times. Just wait a few months and logi will be the flavor of the month again and AR will once again be outclassed by every other weapon in every area of engagement.

Please refer to #4 from my previous statement D legendary hero



I agree that many other weapons are UP at this point. In fact I think Cromosome had the weapon balance pretty much correct. HMG's need a damage buff as do lasers to bring them all back up to the chromosome gold standard as I like to refer to it. Don't worry though as I stated before, everything...will change.

I remember the days of Dust when we saw a large variety of weapons used. Not anymore.

I remember complaining when a scrambler pistol killed me or an HMG tore me up. I remember being worried when I heard a laser. I remember mass drivers that would suppress the crap out of me while approaching an objective.
I once even used the SMG on my scout suit and it was a beastly weapon but that was back in Skirmish 1.0 days.
I remember the shotgun in the hands of a scout and you'd have to call that out to your team since it was a huge threat.

All that time, the AR still reigned supreme but at least the scrambler pistol, laser, HMG, massdriver, SMG, and shotgun worked well against AR users and non AR users of equal skill in Chromosome and earlier builds.

The laser could out range the AR user. The Shotgun could out CQC the AR, the HMG (when it had range) could suppress the AR.

I always found the laser (not including the Viziam or damage mods) and HMG to be the most effective weapons against the AR in Chromosome but not anymore. Those were the days.

Nooo don't nerf it's the only thing thats gallente that is not underpowered shotguns and plasma cannons.

For once I agree with the AR toting masses. Like the OP hinted at. The problem isn't that the AR is OP. It's that they nerf the crap our of anything that isn't a standard AR.

If I could force CCP to do things my way for awhile I would have them put the nerf bat on the shelf and start buffing things that need it starting with small turrets for vehicles, then the plasma cannon, then the laser rifle, then armor tanking for dropsuits, then the shotgun...

Not sure what you're referring to, because while the SMG does fire at 1000RPM, in no way does it have more DPS than an HMG. Given that SMG damage is around 24, and HMG around 19, and the HMG shoots twice as fast...

assalt HMG = 433 dps
militia SMG = 459 dps


militia smg dps > AHMG


militia smg dps = 459
HMG = 600

so,
militia smg dps ~< HMG std dps, with approximately the same range.

They can let the dust settle on the nerf bat after one last swing.

Like I just posted, it the ARs range, and then buff the other weapons back into decency.

If a majority are capable of preferring their own private interest, or that of their families, counties, and party, to that of the nation collectively, some provision must be made in the constitution, in favor of justice, to compel all to respect the common right, the public good, the universal law, in preference to all private and partial considerations... And that the desires of the majority of the people are often for injustice and inhumanity against the minority, is demonstrated by every page of history...

]If a majority are capable of preferring their own private interest, or that of their families, counties, and party, to that of the nation collectively, some provision must be made in the constitution, in favor of justice, to compel all to respect the common right, the public good, the universal law, in preference to all private and partial considerations... And that the desires of the majority of the people are often for injustice and inhumanity against the minority, is demonstrated by every page of history...

This would be nice, if only CCP could see past the noise from the AR nerf brigade. They've been listening to the majority for too long, and here we are, in AR 514 because of it.

----John Adams

If a majority are capable of preferring their own private interest, or that of their families, counties, and party, to that of the nation collectively, some provision must be made in the constitution, in favor of justice, to compel all to respect the common right, the public good, the universal law, in preference to all private and partial considerations... And that the desires of the majority of the people are often for injustice and inhumanity against the minority, is demonstrated by every page of history...
----John Adams

Well assault rifle do need a tap with the nerf hammer it range needs to be cut in half its damange is fine since it a gallente weapon but it has far to much range for its dps

Well assault rifle do need a tap with the nerf hammer it range needs to be cut in half its damange is fine since it a gallente weapon but it has far to much range for its dps

'Boston Massacre'. John Adams defended british soldiers who shot into a crowd of civilians, killing 5. He got them off. Not really a reliable source of quotes regarding universal law. Considering his quote that there is a 'common right', he still defended known murderers of civilians, when no one else would. Justice and 'public good' at its best. His payment was the equivilent of a pair of shoes.

Its DPS is to low for its range, if its range get decreased its DPS must be increased if it is not increased that would mean the DPS of the ASCR needs to be reduced due to the higher range it would have.

wait what... i normally agree with you... but the AScr does not have the same range it actually has less range.

another point is that the AScr is a lvl 4 ADV weapon, while a milita AR is a skiless no SP weapon. why should it be as good as a Scr?

The Scrambler Rifle is supposed to be superior tech to the Gallente Plasma Rifle (Assault Rifle) in every way... yet, it is the exact opposite.

I find it ridiculous that some one completely unskilled into Assault Rifles at all, without using damage modifiers; using a Militia Assault Rifle, is able to kill a fully decked out Proto Heavy with over 1000 Ehp total in less then four seconds..

There is a thread around here... somewhere in this clutter of threads, that explains it and gives the actual numbers

wait what... i normally agree with you... but the AScr does not have the same range it actually has less range.

another point is that the AScr is a lvl 4 ADV weapon, while a milita AR is a skiless no SP weapon. why should it be as good as a Scr?