DUST Search - [REQUEST] Balance the assault rifles

BL4CKST4R wrote:

Pugnacious Turtle wrote:

At one point I had the understanding that CCP wanted balance to all weapons and that they were checking their metrics constantly. Wouldn't the metrics indicate that the VAST majority of people are using the AR? While I totally understand that this is the vanilla/standard weapon, what I don't enjoy seeing is nothing but assault rifles peppered with some heavies and snipers in match after match. I don't want to see the AR get pounded by the CCP Nerf Hammer (as this is what usually happens) but I would like to see some balance made to it where other weapons are desired as well. When you start to see scouts running ARs you really have to wonder.

All in all, what I truly curious about is this: What are the metrics and percentages behind how many use the AR? Is the amount of people using the AR CCP's intent?

I really do enjoy the concept behind the game, but being a scout class character I am not presently finding much enjoyment in this.

AR is used mostly because it is an easy to use, and recognizable weapon in any FPS. It is the go to gun for every FPS out there, actually the only thing the AR needs is its DPS increased and range decreased.

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Pugnacious Turtle The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 0	Posted - 2013.07.27 02:49:00 - [1] - Quote At one point I had the understanding that CCP wanted balance to all weapons and that they were checking their metrics constantly. Wouldn't the metrics indicate that the VAST majority of people are using the AR? While I totally understand that this is the vanilla/standard weapon, what I don't enjoy seeing is nothing but assault rifles peppered with some heavies and snipers in match after match. I don't want to see the AR get pounded by the CCP Nerf Hammer (as this is what usually happens) but I would like to see some balance made to it where other weapons are desired as well. When you start to see scouts running ARs you really have to wonder. All in all, what I truly curious about is this: What are the metrics and percentages behind how many use the AR? Is the amount of people using the AR CCP's intent? I really do enjoy the concept behind the game, but being a scout class character I am not presently finding much enjoyment in this.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 382	Posted - 2013.07.27 03:09:00 - [2] - Quote Percent of people that use the AR? ~90% Percent of people that want to Nerf everything that isn't a direct fire, fully automatic, High-ish accuracy weapon? ~90% Poor Sods left to deal with their decisions while the ARs frollock in the fields? ~10% Seriously though, When the New racials come in, the GARs need to have their range downed a quarter. There. in b4 the "AR 514ers", and the "Go AR or Go homers" Me-Co Out.
TheEnd762 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 101	Posted - 2013.07.27 03:21:00 - [3] - Quote +1, but I doubt it'll ever happen. The AR 514ers love their 3-shot-kill bullet hoses too much.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 850	Posted - 2013.07.27 03:23:00 - [4] - Quote I'd just like to see the breach rifle formed to be what the Rail Rifle will be. Long Range and high damage.
Pugnacious Turtle The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2	Posted - 2013.07.27 03:33:00 - [5] - Quote TheEnd762 wrote: +1, but I doubt it'll ever happen. The AR 514ers love their 3-shot-kill bullet hoses too much. And it would seem that CCP caters to them.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 383	Posted - 2013.07.27 03:46:00 - [6] - Quote Pugnacious Turtle wrote: TheEnd762 wrote: +1, but I doubt it'll ever happen. The AR 514ers love their 3-shot-kill bullet hoses too much. And it would seem that CCP caters to them. Yeah, we know. It's been like this for a while.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 758	Posted - 2013.07.27 03:54:00 - [7] - Quote The GAR needs to be faceraped with a balancebat, no matter how much the AR scrubs cry about it.
Buster Friently Rosen Association 1292	Posted - 2013.07.27 04:14:00 - [8] - Quote Pugnacious Turtle wrote: At one point I had the understanding that CCP wanted balance to all weapons and that they were checking their metrics constantly. Wouldn't the metrics indicate that the VAST majority of people are using the AR? While I totally understand that this is the vanilla/standard weapon, what I don't enjoy seeing is nothing but assault rifles peppered with some heavies and snipers in match after match. I don't want to see the AR get pounded by the CCP Nerf Hammer (as this is what usually happens) but I would like to see some balance made to it where other weapons are desired as well. When you start to see scouts running ARs you really have to wonder. All in all, what I truly curious about is this: What are the metrics and percentages behind how many use the AR? Is the amount of people using the AR CCP's intent? I really do enjoy the concept behind the game, but being a scout class character I am not presently finding much enjoyment in this. QFT. Currently we're playing AR 514. The AR is way overused, and it's well past time that CCP do something about it. It seems though that the current philosophy from CCP regarding Dust is go AR or go home. Hail AR 514, hail king AR.
DRDEEZE TWO POINTO Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 67	Posted - 2013.07.27 05:11:00 - [9] - Quote Nooo don't nerf it's the only thing thats gallente that is not underpowered shotguns and plasma cannons.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 384	Posted - 2013.07.27 05:17:00 - [10] - Quote DRDEEZE TWO POINTO wrote: Nooo don't nerf it's the only thing thats gallente that is not underpowered shotguns and plasma cannons. SGs are only UP cause aiming sucks, but that should he fixed soon. PC is UP cause it don't shoot straight, but CCP might be getting to that considering the amount of balancing that CCP is doing along with bug squishing. It's not nerf the ARs, it's balance them better, as right now some things aren't quite right.

Cosgar ParagonX 3234	Posted - 2013.07.27 07:52:00 - [11] - Quote I don't have a problem directly with the AR, I have a problem with the range. Remember when we had the hard range cap at the beginning of Uprising? Even though people complained, it encouraged more tactical play and squads running together. Now it's like having LW SS all over again in Chromosome and everyone spraying across the map. It makes the TAC AR completely useless and takes away an advantage the ScR and Laser should have. If anything, the damage falloff,/dispersion needs to be more drastic outside of 30m, or we need the range hard cap back, this is getting kind of ridiculous when you can get sniped across the map with a full auto weapon.
TheEnd762 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2013.07.27 08:22:00 - [12] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I don't have a problem directly with the AR, I have a problem with the range. Remember when we had the hard range cap at the beginning of Uprising? Even though people complained, it encouraged more tactical play and squads running together. Now it's like having LW SS all over again in Chromosome and everyone spraying across the map. It makes the TAC AR completely useless and takes away an advantage the ScR and Laser should have. If anything, the damage falloff,/dispersion needs to be more drastic outside of 30m, or we need the range hard cap back, this is getting kind of ridiculous when you can get sniped across the map with a full auto weapon. QFTW.
Korvin Lomont United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 69	Posted - 2013.07.27 10:53:00 - [13] - Quote I think ARs are mostly fine, there are varius reasons why so many people using them and no opness is not of them. But i would love if CCP finally start implementing the correct range and damage profiles to make the gallente AR fit ist designed role. A very High DPS short range weapon. And CCP should stop reliying to placeholder weapons (that are poorly balancend and nearlly none of them fits their role) and start bringing the other racial varients. Then we will see more diversity on the field. By the way the last days the AR wasn't really often in the Killfeed. It was more like Sniper, HMG, MD, and Flaylock that dominates the killfeed and that seems ok to me.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 849	Posted - 2013.07.27 11:06:00 - [14] - Quote Pugnacious Turtle wrote: At one point I had the understanding that CCP wanted balance to all weapons and that they were checking their metrics constantly. Wouldn't the metrics indicate that the VAST majority of people are using the AR? While I totally understand that this is the vanilla/standard weapon, what I don't enjoy seeing is nothing but assault rifles peppered with some heavies and snipers in match after match. I don't want to see the AR get pounded by the CCP Nerf Hammer (as this is what usually happens) but I would like to see some balance made to it where other weapons are desired as well. When you start to see scouts running ARs you really have to wonder. All in all, what I truly curious about is this: What are the metrics and percentages behind how many use the AR? Is the amount of people using the AR CCP's intent? I really do enjoy the concept behind the game, but being a scout class character I am not presently finding much enjoyment in this. AR is used mostly because it is an easy to use, and recognizable weapon in any FPS. It is the go to gun for every FPS out there, actually the only thing the AR needs is its DPS increased and range decreased.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 759	Posted - 2013.07.27 15:21:00 - [15] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Pugnacious Turtle wrote: At one point I had the understanding that CCP wanted balance to all weapons and that they were checking their metrics constantly. Wouldn't the metrics indicate that the VAST majority of people are using the AR? While I totally understand that this is the vanilla/standard weapon, what I don't enjoy seeing is nothing but assault rifles peppered with some heavies and snipers in match after match. I don't want to see the AR get pounded by the CCP Nerf Hammer (as this is what usually happens) but I would like to see some balance made to it where other weapons are desired as well. When you start to see scouts running ARs you really have to wonder. All in all, what I truly curious about is this: What are the metrics and percentages behind how many use the AR? Is the amount of people using the AR CCP's intent? I really do enjoy the concept behind the game, but being a scout class character I am not presently finding much enjoyment in this. AR is used mostly because it is an easy to use, and recognizable weapon in any FPS. It is the go to gun for every FPS out there, actually the only thing the AR needs is its DPS increased and range decreased. I think it making the GAR's range just slightly more than the SMGs while increasing the DPS potential would be an acceptable start. It should be the least of the ARs.
Cosgar ParagonX 3255	Posted - 2013.07.27 15:26:00 - [16] - Quote Just so we're all on the same page, this is about the standard full auto right? That's the one that needs to have the shortest range, like breach AR range. The breach could use a RoF buff, burst needs less dispersion with virtually no kick and the TAC AR is fine as is after it got rebalanced.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 759	Posted - 2013.07.27 15:29:00 - [17] - Quote I was thinking that it would be as a racial standard. So the GAR would still have the Breach variant which would end up being roughly the same range as the SMG then step it out so that the Breach Combat Rifle and the Tac GAR have roughly the same range and so on and so forth.
Cosgar ParagonX 3255	Posted - 2013.07.27 15:35:00 - [18] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: I was thinking that it would be as a racial standard. So the GAR would still have the Breach variant which would end up being roughly the same range as the SMG then step it out so that the Breach Combat Rifle and the Tac GAR have roughly the same range and so on and so forth. Yeah, that sounds about right. I hope they can at least buff the breach up at least. That was my favorite back in beta, it's overdue for a buff. Maybe a keep the low clip, but raise the RoF.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows 759	Posted - 2013.07.27 15:39:00 - [19] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I was thinking that it would be as a racial standard. So the GAR would still have the Breach variant which would end up being roughly the same range as the SMG then step it out so that the Breach Combat Rifle and the Tac GAR have roughly the same range and so on and so forth. Yeah, that sounds about right. I hope they can at least buff the breach up at least. That was my favorite back in beta, it's overdue for a buff. Maybe a keep the low clip, but raise the RoF. I wouldn't disagree with a slight (slight) RoF increase.
Cosgar ParagonX 3255	Posted - 2013.07.27 15:42:00 - [20] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Cosgar wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: I was thinking that it would be as a racial standard. So the GAR would still have the Breach variant which would end up being roughly the same range as the SMG then step it out so that the Breach Combat Rifle and the Tac GAR have roughly the same range and so on and so forth. Yeah, that sounds about right. I hope they can at least buff the breach up at least. That was my favorite back in beta, it's overdue for a buff. Maybe a keep the low clip, but raise the RoF. I wouldn't disagree with a slight (slight) RoF increase. Let me be more specific- increase the RoF, but make it kick harder than the Duvolle when you try to ADS so you're forced to hip fire. It'll be a CQC beast, but only good at CQC. I'm not even going to spec into it when the combat rifle comes out, but I'd be tempted if it were buffed like that.

ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1301	Posted - 2013.07.27 16:37:00 - [21] - Quote How about we wait until... You know.. We have all of the variants released? Maybe that's too logical though...
Eno Raef KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 56	Posted - 2013.07.27 16:46:00 - [22] - Quote I remember the days of Dust when we saw a large variety of weapons used. Not anymore. I remember complaining when a scrambler pistol killed me or an HMG tore me up. I remember being worried when I heard a laser. I remember mass drivers that would suppress the crap out of me while approaching an objective. I once even used the SMG on my scout suit and it was a beastly weapon but that was back in Skirmish 1.0 days. I remember the shotgun in the hands of a scout and you'd have to call that out to your team since it was a huge threat. All that time, the AR still reigned supreme but at least the scrambler pistol, laser, HMG, massdriver, SMG, and shotgun worked well against AR users and non AR users of equal skill in Chromosome and earlier builds. The laser could out range the AR user. The Shotgun could out CQC the AR, the HMG (when it had range) could suppress the AR. I always found the laser (not including the Viziam or damage mods) and HMG to be the most effective weapons against the AR in Chromosome but not anymore. Those were the days.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 296	Posted - 2013.07.27 16:56:00 - [23] - Quote balance is needed for the assault rifle. WHat is their optimal range? They can shoot accurately at 60m! Am I insane? is that ok? I'm ok with the AR users, I'm more upset at the rifle itself, it's too good. My pro sniper cannot compete.
Gorgoth24Reborn Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2013.07.27 17:07:00 - [24] - Quote My biggest suggestion would be to increase dispersion quite a bit. I use the AR as bread and butter (because I'm bad) and I can agree that the damage projection is far too high. That being said it'll be easier to balance without mass community range when all the weapons are introduced
Cosgar ParagonX 3267	Posted - 2013.07.27 17:13:00 - [25] - Quote Gorgoth24Reborn wrote: My biggest suggestion would be to increase dispersion quite a bit. I use the AR as bread and butter (because I'm bad) and I can agree that the damage projection is far too high. That being said it'll be easier to balance without mass community range when all the weapons are introduced They'll rage no matter what. I also expect some rage over the Gauss Rifle too since it's a skill shot weapon. It won't be FotM material, but it's going to annoy the hell out of people that think it's an "I win button."
Gorgoth24Reborn Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2013.07.27 17:25:00 - [26] - Quote Cosgar wrote: They'll rage no matter what. I also expect some rage over the Gauss Rifle too since it's a skill shot weapon. It won't be FotM material, but it's going to annoy the hell out of people that think it's an "I win button." True, but patience is still wise here. Currently the AR is so used partly because it's been the most reliable weapon for a long time in terms of A) Not getting constantly buffed/nerfed as hard as a lot of weapons, B) Not being crippled by game mechanics as bad as some weapons every large expansion and C) Being able to participate in medium ranged combat. Why haven't some people spec'd into short range? Partly because hitting anything with a shotgun post-Uprising was a crap shoot. A combination of aiming and hit mechanics made it improbable to hit people reliably. Why haven't some people spec'd into medium range? Because these weapons are prone to enormous buffs and nerfs (as I doubt anyone could argue with the back and forth or TAR and Lasors) Why haven't people spec'd into spray weapons (like projectiles)? Technical issues with projectiles Why haven't some people spec'd into long range? Partly because of hit detection issues and the niche nature of long-range players. If CCP follows a process like: Roughly balance current weapons -> Introduce all the racial variants -> "Tweak weapons so every weapon fits its class" which could include covert "nerfs" designed to specialize people into a certain race's weapon it would seem to reduce community outrage enormously.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1303	Posted - 2013.07.27 17:26:00 - [27] - Quote The assault rifle is filling in a bunch of gaps ATM I suspect... But straight nerfing it without filling in the gaps is the wrong way. They are currently testing the RR and CR now... Like all things dust... Well just have to wait.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 391	Posted - 2013.07.27 17:54:00 - [28] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: The assault rifle is filling in a bunch of gaps ATM I suspect... But straight nerfing it without filling in the gaps is the wrong way. They are currently testing the RR and CR now... Like all things dust... Well just have to wait. It's not nerf the AR. Balance it. Buff the Breach, balance in some way, the Standard AR, I think buffing the some of the other guns, fix HD for shotgun etc. Like Eno Reef said, I remember when I was afraid of weapon types, not weapon tiers. Several guns are not doing well because of HD, and others are just UP/OP. Soon, hopefully with the already planned vehicle balance in 1.4, another weapon balance pass should be taken. This is less ARs are OP, just that the other guns are having trouble. The TTK of the AR is good, just that a lot of other guns seem to be endangered compared to the variety in the past.
Pugnacious Turtle The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 8	Posted - 2013.07.28 02:14:00 - [29] - Quote I don't know what half of you people are talking about. CCP needs to put down the AR for a while and give some love to other weapons that lack "rifle" in the title.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 392	Posted - 2013.07.28 02:26:00 - [30] - Quote Pugnacious Turtle wrote: I don't know what half of you people are talking about. CCP needs to put down the AR for a while and give some love to other weapons that lack "rifle" in the title. That's what needs to be done, and they need to balance the AR variants too.



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