DUST Search - FW: I pretend it matters.

CCP Nullarbor wrote:

Jason Pearson wrote:

CCP Nullarbor wrote:

We agree, we want FW to more visible, unique from instant battle and more rewarding for those invested in it. The answer to why it isn't like that now is we just havn't gotten to it yet. FoxFour has a big design documented written up about how it should all work though so we will hopefully get to put that plan into action in an upcoming release.

Provided we can implement a suitable method for dealing with griefers, what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? We are also considering how we could allow full team vs team in FW again, a bit like the old corp battles but without the hassle and planning (and no shows).

Oh my god, blue tagged. I knew it would happen to one of my threads eventually :P

Friendly Fire would be interesting but I don't see many solutions to dealing with griefers, unless doing it so many times got you banned from that factions side for a period of time. Example, I join Gallente and keep running over my guys, I am deactivated and I get a mail indicating that I'm not allowed to join for so long, with each offense being longer I s'pose?

The FW battles need an AFK system where those who aren't near a point or gaining WP will receive a warning and then get kicked, once that's sorted then rewards need to be upped, I've heard about things such as "LP" I think? This may help a lot creating an additional reason to playing.

Last for me, personally, would be some kind of visual aspect indicating that stuff is going on in the universe, would make things interesting and at least would let us know we're doing something that has an effect in New Eden.

We are considering something along those lines for dealing with friendly fire. Occasional incidents will give you a slap on the wrist, repeated griefing gets you kicked out of that militia for a period of time.

AFK will be dealt with for all game modes so don't worry about that.

For the visualization yes absolutely, we want players to see what impact they are having in DUST and in EVE. Hans on the CPM keeps bugging me for more ways for the militias in EVE to interact with the DUST mercs too, including paying them for their services which I think would be pretty damn awesome.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 835	Posted - 2013.07.20 23:09:00 - [61] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Provided we can implement a suitable method for dealing with griefers, what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? Don't expect me to ever call my million isk HAV if you ever turn on Friendly Fire in a game with randomers, while FF is nice, I honestly don't see how you can implement any method that will deal with griefers in a game with permanent loss, it will be too tempting for them.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1981	Posted - 2013.07.20 23:13:00 - [62] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: Provided we can implement a suitable method for dealing with griefers, what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? Don't expect me to ever call my million isk HAV if you ever turn on Friendly Fire in a game with randomers, while FF is nice, I honestly don't see how you can implement any method that will deal with griefers in a game with permanent loss, it will be too tempting for them. Collateral Payments before entering a game could be interesting. The only AV that would affect you would be forges and plasma cannons (lol) and then really other tanks. Would be interesting if battles did cost like 600k each to enter and if you killed a friendly vehicle or a few Infantry, you'd be kicked and would lose it.
steadyhand amarr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 962	Posted - 2013.07.20 23:18:00 - [63] - Quote Looks at thread faints, looking forward to seeing what u come up with :-)
Provolonee Undefined Risk DARKSTAR ARMY 98	Posted - 2013.07.21 00:00:00 - [64] - Quote FF would be a nice change of pace, I allways like the idea of self policing it. If you TK your name turns from blue to grey. If your team mates saw it was an accident fine, they let you live until it fades away. They don't like it, well now it's 31vs 1 and they get no penalty for putting you down. This is how all crimes worked in Ultima online. And if they ever add a nice bounty system. I just don't want FW to turn into PC 2.0. Where only the top 10% of the playerbase can participate.
Avinash Decker BetaMax. CRONOS. 60	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:19:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Jason Pearson wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: We agree, we want FW to more visible, unique from instant battle and more rewarding for those invested in it. The answer to why it isn't like that now is we just havn't gotten to it yet. FoxFour has a big design documented written up about how it should all work though so we will hopefully get to put that plan into action in an upcoming release. Provided we can implement a suitable method for dealing with griefers, what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? We are also considering how we could allow full team vs team in FW again, a bit like the old corp battles but without the hassle and planning (and no shows). Oh my god, blue tagged. I knew it would happen to one of my threads eventually :P Friendly Fire would be interesting but I don't see many solutions to dealing with griefers, unless doing it so many times got you banned from that factions side for a period of time. Example, I join Gallente and keep running over my guys, I am deactivated and I get a mail indicating that I'm not allowed to join for so long, with each offense being longer I s'pose? The FW battles need an AFK system where those who aren't near a point or gaining WP will receive a warning and then get kicked, once that's sorted then rewards need to be upped, I've heard about things such as "LP" I think? This may help a lot creating an additional reason to playing. Last for me, personally, would be some kind of visual aspect indicating that stuff is going on in the universe, would make things interesting and at least would let us know we're doing something that has an effect in New Eden. We are considering something along those lines for dealing with friendly fire. Occasional incidents will give you a slap on the wrist, repeated griefing gets you kicked out of that militia for a period of time. AFK will be dealt with for all game modes so don't worry about that. For the visualization yes absolutely, we want players to see what impact they are having in DUST and in EVE. Hans on the CPM keeps bugging me for more ways for the militias in EVE to interact with the DUST mercs too, including paying them for their services which I think would be pretty damn awesome. Handling FF and griefing will be very difficult , they are plenty of ways to abuse different systems . If you do you get kicked for X amount of killings than I dont have to kill them; just harass them. Shoot them until their shields are down oruse flux grenades to destroy their shields which will cause them to get them killed , or I can jump on tank and get in the way of their turret. Smart griefers use this to their advantage to make players kill them so they are the ones to get banned, I seen this countless times. And if the players don't shoot them then they will continue to harass the players until they do or out right kill the victim ( if they have less than the X amount to get kicked/banned) . Also nothing stop players from making new accounts/characters . Although a lot people will say kill them back or grief them , but like I said thats what griefers want you to do so you will get punished too and if you participate in griefing them , you have the possibility of costing your team the match(especially if team kills count as clones lost ) . Unlike in Eve , capuslers are not restricted to time , clone , or player count limits , well at least not the same way . So if a few idiots are trying to kill each other and my team doesn't win the match because of that , then I don't and the rest of my team ,do not get the rewards , which cause people to get pissed off. CCP can implement some type of insurance system , but it depends how you guys do it. I can just never pay it or use militia gear or again, simply, make new accounts/characters . The reason I saying this is because a lot of players will most likely justify this because it's New Eden or "Its how its done in Eve online." If you guys really really want FF then try to do it in a clever , intelligent way . Make it too restrictive griefers will abuse it to get their teammates to get punished or make it to lenient it will basically be FFA.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 672	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:35:00 - [66] - Quote Make FW exactly like PC. Go into a match, and fight to win. If you lose, you don't get paid. If you win, you get a ton of money and loot. Also an ownership report of which faction took control of that particular planet or system after a number of battles. Show us which direction ownership is starting to lean. Faction Warfare with drone infestations would be great. A faction may need help clearing them out. Whatever you guys envision, PvE has to be a part of it... I don't think I only speak for myself when I say that PvP-only all the time is getting... tiresome.
Onesimus Tarsus Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 622	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:40:00 - [67] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: We agree, we want FW to more visible, unique from instant battle and more rewarding for those invested in it. The answer to why it isn't like that now is we just havn't gotten to it yet. FoxFour has a big design documented written up about how it should all work though so we will hopefully get to put that plan into action in an upcoming release. Provided we can implement a suitable method for dealing with griefers, what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? We are also considering how we could allow full team vs team in FW again, a bit like the old corp battles but without the hassle and planning (and no shows). No such thing as griefers. If a Merc wants to throw the match at the expense (if you can even call it that) of another immortal Merc's clone, that's Merc life. Sandbox, welcome to EvE, get better, blah.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 1091	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:45:00 - [68] - Quote I do really feel like FW should be the halfway between PC and IB. Essentially PC for the masses. Using the same salvage system, the same win/loss isk payouts as PC (suggested already I know). We just need a system where you get exclusive FW loot that you can't buy on the market, obtained somehow through participation in FW. And a much better battle selection system... the current one is meh.
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 98	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:45:00 - [69] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: We agree, we want FW to more visible, unique from instant battle and more rewarding for those invested in it. The answer to why it isn't like that now is we just havn't gotten to it yet. FoxFour has a big design documented written up about how it should all work though so we will hopefully get to put that plan into action in an upcoming release. Provided we can implement a suitable method for dealing with griefers, what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? We are also considering how we could allow full team vs team in FW again, a bit like the old corp battles but without the hassle and planning (and no shows). FF - oh yes please! For the first battles I will lol at the blues randomly spraying in the reds directions and getting their allies too - its all very 'spray and pray' at present.
Gigatron Prime The.Primes 281	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:47:00 - [70] - Quote Friendly fire yes!!!

Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 98	Posted - 2013.07.21 01:55:00 - [71] - Quote GET ATMESON wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: We agree, we want FW to more visible, unique from instant battle and more rewarding for those invested in it. The answer to why it isn't like that now is we just havn't gotten to it yet. FoxFour has a big design documented written up about how it should all work though so we will hopefully get to put that plan into action in an upcoming release. Provided we can implement a suitable method for dealing with griefers, what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? We are also considering how we could allow full team vs team in FW again, a bit like the old corp battles but without the hassle and planning (and no shows). Add loyalty points + a loyalty point store. I would jump into FW way more if that was the case This
Shae Daix Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 16	Posted - 2013.07.21 02:04:00 - [72] - Quote Just a quick thought on friendly fire. While I feel it's an interesting idea, and would add to the challenge of playing as it could turn a bad grenade toss into a disaster. And I like that kind of thing. Risk, and the unexpected. But with the number of people who step directly into the stream projectiles emanating from my mini gun, And I mean a long burst as it happening, I would most likely get booted or banned because of their actions. And worse, it would become a way of getting people knocked out of matches by the asshats of the game. Don't misunderstand, I am all for anti griefing measures. But if something can be turned agains't you, it will be. Those who grief excel at working the system to their advantage. And that leaving aside the subject of suicide or disposable alts.
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 98	Posted - 2013.07.21 02:10:00 - [73] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: We agree, we want FW to more visible, unique from instant battle and more rewarding for those invested in it. The answer to why it isn't like that now is we just havn't gotten to it yet. FoxFour has a big design documented written up about how it should all work though so we will hopefully get to put that plan into action in an upcoming release. Provided we can implement a suitable method for dealing with griefers, what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? We are also considering how we could allow full team vs team in FW again, a bit like the old corp battles but without the hassle and planning (and no shows). Increase rewards+salvage, require each individual player pay a certain amount of collateral to participate which will be returned upon a successful win, and allow multiple squads to queue in together up to 16 players. Allow them to designate which side they want to fight for, and then have matchmaking put the team into the next applicable FW game that pops up. It's important that you keep the price for collateral manageable for seasoned players, but steep for newcomers. I imagine somewhere around 600k to 1Mil per player is reasonable. This is enough to entice up-and-coming competent people to participate with the increased rewards, but will deter flatout bad players from coming in and pissing everybody off. So make it an exclusive club for a certain few? No thanks. We have enough problems with player numbers already. Bad idea.
GTA-V FTW Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2013.07.21 02:12:00 - [74] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: CCP Nullarbor wrote: Provided we can implement a suitable method for dealing with griefers, what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? Don't expect me to ever call my million isk HAV if you ever turn on Friendly Fire in a game with randomers, while FF is nice, I honestly don't see how you can implement any method that will deal with griefers in a game with permanent loss, it will be too tempting for them. Here is an idea. For FF what if the cost of the suit you FF comes out of your wallet and not the merc who got FF killed? So if you FF a Proto suit that costs 150,000 ISK it comes out of your wallet.
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 311	Posted - 2013.07.21 02:27:00 - [75] - Quote That DEV post has me hopeful. I got into this game because of the advertised EVE connection. Hasn't really felt like it yet. Then I stayed for the SP and leveling like every other game I play now that I think of it (R&C: Going Commando had no idea how awesome that was for me, better than golden guns that make giant chickens!), but I play a skirmish game, do really well, and realize that i'd have to do that 5 more times to get whatever. This happens every time I start to play. NOW i'm basically just here for the forums. FW being something to skill up in might give me that fix i've been missing. I've generally found the games their to be better anyway (it's what I play when I play) so that'd be GREAT!
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 835	Posted - 2013.07.21 03:25:00 - [76] - Quote GTA-V FTW wrote: Here is an idea. For FF what if the cost of the suit you FF comes out of your wallet and not the merc who got FF killed? So if you FF a Proto suit that costs 150,000 ISK it comes out of your wallet. Or a Million ISK tank, yikes. I would not like to FF a million ISK tank. Now this sounds great!
Soraya Xel New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men. 154	Posted - 2013.07.21 04:42:00 - [77] - Quote FW should have friendly fire on. Also, pubs should be NO SQUADS. It would kill pubstomping in it's tracks, and set FW as a clear step above pubs.
Soraya Xel New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men. 154	Posted - 2013.07.21 04:44:00 - [78] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: GTA-V FTW wrote: Here is an idea. For FF what if the cost of the suit you FF comes out of your wallet and not the merc who got FF killed? So if you FF a Proto suit that costs 150,000 ISK it comes out of your wallet. Or a Million ISK tank, yikes. I would not like to FF a million ISK tank. Now this sounds great! How you handle loss of AUR? Letting gameplay drain AUR directly out of your wallet without your approval is a no-go (and probably would irritate Sony). And then people would make a point not to buy AUR, so it wasn't drained by players they shot at.
Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 311	Posted - 2013.07.21 05:43:00 - [79] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: GTA-V FTW wrote: Here is an idea. For FF what if the cost of the suit you FF comes out of your wallet and not the merc who got FF killed? So if you FF a Proto suit that costs 150,000 ISK it comes out of your wallet. Or a Million ISK tank, yikes. I would not like to FF a million ISK tank. Now this sounds great! How you handle loss of AUR? Letting gameplay drain AUR directly out of your wallet without your approval is a no-go (and probably would irritate Sony). And then people would make a point not to buy AUR, so it wasn't drained by players they shot at. All AUR priced gear could be priced at their ISK equivalent or a factor (1.5x mayhaps). That is assuming everything gets an isk equivalent.
Iskandar Zul Karnain Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 1340	Posted - 2013.07.21 06:32:00 - [80] - Quote ISK compensation is a neat idea to prevent TK provided it goes into the abyss and not the victim. We could also use the sec status of the FW planet. Anything in null sec has no penalty for TK and greater rewards. Low-sec requires compensation and high sec is where nubs shoot into the crowd.

Kalante Schiffer Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 348	Posted - 2013.07.21 06:34:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: We agree, we want FW to more visible, unique from instant battle and more rewarding for those invested in it. The answer to why it isn't like that now is we just havn't gotten to it yet. FoxFour has a big design documented written up about how it should all work though so we will hopefully get to put that plan into action in an upcoming release. Provided we can implement a suitable method for dealing with griefers, what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? We are also considering how we could allow full team vs team in FW again, a bit like the old corp battles but without the hassle and planning (and no shows). can we get salvage like we do in planetary conquest?
The-Errorist BetaMax Beta CRONOS. 66	Posted - 2013.07.21 06:49:00 - [82] - Quote Even though CCP reads this feedback and basically knows what we want, it will take at least 2years for it to be meaningful and another year for it to be where we want it. Maybe throwing more money at CPP is the answer.
ReGnYuM TeamPlayers EoN. 518	Posted - 2013.07.21 06:57:00 - [83] - Quote I demand flashy FW Ranking system!
Hammerhead LandSharkX Liberum Sapiens Xenodochi 4	Posted - 2013.07.21 08:01:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: ...snip... what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? We are also considering how we could allow full team vs team in FW again, a bit like the old corp battles but without the hassle and planning (and no shows). do it.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 42	Posted - 2013.07.21 11:23:00 - [85] - Quote Make winning matter. Give the winning team double the isk rewards and give the losers half (or something like that). Friendly fire would be awesome, although it has issues... PCesque salvage system would also be good.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 756	Posted - 2013.07.21 11:27:00 - [86] - Quote Garth Mandra wrote: Make winning matter. Give the winning team double the isk rewards and give the losers half (or something like that). Friendly fire would be awesome, although it has issues... PCesque salvage system would also be good. Thing about FW is that you aren't just supposed to care about winning. You are supposed to care about winning FOR YOUR FACTION.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 683	Posted - 2013.07.21 11:42:00 - [87] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Garth Mandra wrote: Make winning matter. Give the winning team double the isk rewards and give the losers half (or something like that). Friendly fire would be awesome, although it has issues... PCesque salvage system would also be good. Thing about FW is that you aren't just supposed to care about winning. You are supposed to care about winning FOR YOUR FACTION. And what happens in the off chance that your faction gains 100% control of it's regions?
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 762	Posted - 2013.07.21 13:28:00 - [88] - Quote As far as friendly fire in FW goes, what about friendly fire only for people in your corporation? It inserts the risk / ups the game for organized squads, but prevents random noob corp dudes from griefing. If that isn't possible for technical reasons, you could make it so that friendly fire is turned on for your squad only. To prevent griefing all you have to do is lock your squad and invite people you trust, and kick anyone who awoxes you. It isn't as hardcore as full on FF like in PC, but FW is also supposed to be a baby step towards PC so it kind of makes sense for it to be less severe.
Soldiersaint Deepspace Digital 233	Posted - 2013.07.21 13:31:00 - [89] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Denak Kalamari wrote: I don't play FW battles because my character doesn't want to. Roleplaying ftw \o/ Do you play PC then? Because if you don't play FW or PC you essentially aren't even involved in the EVE universe whatsoever since instant battles are all fake and not really happening nor effecting anything in the single-shard universe. If you're fine with that then great, but for many people that is the whole point of the game. eve gives NOTHING to dust players... helping eve is worthless...
Arrach Sarkal PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1	Posted - 2013.07.21 13:57:00 - [90] - Quote Karazantor wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: From what my corp mates tell me what we do on the ground in FW does make a considerable difference to the pilots in EVE, but we have no way of noticing this and it really means nothing to us. Can you expand on that a bit please. I'm curious as to how this works (how it affects EVE). It effects the number of "victory points" needed to take a system - VPs being given for taking complexes in space. So for example if the Amarr control a majority of the districts in a Matari system, the 24th Imperial Crusade need to close fewer complexes to make the system vulnerable. Likewise if the Matari have majority control, the Crusade needs to capture more complexes, which makes taking the system harder and longer. CCP Nullarbor wrote: We agree, we want FW to more visible, unique from instant battle and more rewarding for those invested in it. The answer to why it isn't like that now is we just havn't gotten to it yet. FoxFour has a big design documented written up about how it should all work though so we will hopefully get to put that plan into action in an upcoming release. Provided we can implement a suitable method for dealing with griefers, what do you guys think about enabling friendly fire for faction warfare? We are also considering how we could allow full team vs team in FW again, a bit like the old corp battles but without the hassle and planning (and no shows). Friendly fire could be ok if handled well but that's glossing over the hard bit, as already mentioned. For one, it absolutely has to be done after the introduction of meaningful loyalty rewards, otherwise there will be no reason for people to care when they get booted out of the militia or whatever. You'd need something like a full EVE style set of standings and LP system at the very least, so if you repeatedly team kill you get booted from the militia and have to go and run lvl 1 missions against those mythical PVE drones for 6 months as penance... However it doesn't actually address any of the problems with FW. The lack of battles, absence of faction contracts which reward loyalty (despite Aura's lying on the warbarge), the inability to queue in a coherent manner and the near total lack of information available to Dust players about why anything they do in FW matters. As far as patching up FW goes, friendly fire is a design cul de sac, potentially interesting but doesn't actually go anywhere. On information, EVE has some nice UI elements that shows system control and victory points - getting that information into Dust in an easily visible way would be a good start.



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