Yes at the moment there is no "real" differance with FW except a different matchmaking... which commonally leads to full squads coming up against newbros.

FW needs an incentive, i dont think restricting the suits we can use through loyalty points is a good idea... a loyalty store where you can get faction mod's perhaps? or reduced faction suits...? tho i would say anything like that would have to wait for an open market.

Why would it have to wait for an Open market? How are sutis like that dependant on an open market in any way? Sure.... people who don't want to participate in FW would be dependant on a market if they wanted to circumvent the loyalty thing, but its not a necessity. AS for the "suit selection" i think this would be a good place to put those "regulated" matches people wanted in. You can even push it into the games lore by saying the "empires wanted you to wear their colors" or some other nonsense. If you want to fight people using your specialized gear, go do it in pub matches or corp matches. Having regulated gear in at-least one place would allow for those whom are less fortunate to play on "even" terms. Besides...... why would a caldari suit be fighting on the side of the gallente? That just doesn't make any sense...... (yeah yeah, clones whatever, im just sayin)

Il argue with you in a bit i need to go get some milk...

Standings are actually something we are looking at. We have a design rolling around for improvements to FW that involves them.

I am personally not a fan of loyalty points for a couple reasons; that doesn't mean they won't ever happen just a lot of discussion will have to happen first. They are another currency to keep track of, actually it would be 4 more currencies. It means we need equipment/weapons/dropsuits/whatever for all the races but they also need to be different so as to give reason to pick different faction but also balanced. There are lots of other reasons. That all being said there are also reasons for it, so down the road once we have a well set scheme for adding new items and player trading I can see us adding loyalty points.

Being given a certain selection of fittings will not happen. Our game is built on the idea of players consuming items. That and when you put all this time and effort into building custom fits, skilling into specific fits, and all that sort of stuff going into a more advanced game mode and being told you are limited to specific fits that you didn't create... that isn't so fun.

Good stuff though and thanks for sharing! :D

Standings are actually something we are looking at. We have a design rolling around for improvements to FW that involves them.

I am personally not a fan of loyalty points for a couple reasons; that doesn't mean they won't ever happen just a lot of discussion will have to happen first. They are another currency to keep track of, actually it would be 4 more currencies. It means we need equipment/weapons/dropsuits/whatever for all the races but they also need to be different so as to give reason to pick different faction but also balanced. There are lots of other reasons. That all being said there are also reasons for it, so down the road once we have a well set scheme for adding new items and player trading I can see us adding loyalty points.

Being given a certain selection of fittings will not happen. Our game is built on the idea of players consuming items. That and when you put all this time and effort into building custom fits, skilling into specific fits, and all that sort of stuff going into a more advanced game mode and being told you are limited to specific fits that you didn't create... that isn't so fun.

Good stuff though and thanks for sharing! :D

Standings are actually something we are looking at. We have a design rolling around for improvements to FW that involves them.

I am personally not a fan of loyalty points for a couple reasons; that doesn't mean they won't ever happen just a lot of discussion will have to happen first. They are another currency to keep track of, actually it would be 4 more currencies. It means we need equipment/weapons/dropsuits/whatever for all the races but they also need to be different so as to give reason to pick different faction but also balanced. There are lots of other reasons. That all being said there are also reasons for it, so down the road once we have a well set scheme for adding new items and player trading I can see us adding loyalty points.

Being given a certain selection of fittings will not happen. Our game is built on the idea of players consuming items. That and when you put all this time and effort into building custom fits, skilling into specific fits, and all that sort of stuff going into a more advanced game mode and being told you are limited to specific fits that you didn't create... that isn't so fun.

Good stuff though and thanks for sharing! :D

Why would it have to be four specific currencies and not just a general currency; Faction Points? It could be one, universal currency used for whatever faction you want to focus on while your race would offer a racial bonus to your race's faction (toward points, 5-10%), assuming you fight on their side. Otherwise, you could use the currency to unlock whatever you like but you would only get to choose two different factions to use the points on. Once those factions are unlocked, there's no going back.

Why would it have to be four specific currencies and not just a general currency; Faction Points?

I like the idea of standings ( as opposed to LP). Build up standings, unlock things in faction specific shops depending on your standing.

As for, "forces the player to fight for a faction they may not like to get the gear they want"....

Well, if the factions have different rewards, that'll be an issue regardless. I wouldn't expect high standing with the Amarr to reward you with Caldari headscarves anyhow.

The whole point of loyalty points is they are awarded for being loyal to a specific faction. So you fight for Gallente you get Gallente LP. At least that is what LP is in EVE and what I assumed the OP thought of. If there is just a standard LP and you get it for fighting for any side in FW what is the point of fighting for specific sides?

This part. "Editing to add; once you unlock a faction, fighting on the opposing side would not gain you any faction points whatsoever."

Standings are actually something we are looking at. We have a design rolling around for improvements to FW that involves them.

I am personally not a fan of loyalty points for a couple reasons; that doesn't mean they won't ever happen just a lot of discussion will have to happen first. They are another currency to keep track of, actually it would be 4 more currencies. It means we need equipment/weapons/dropsuits/whatever for all the races but they also need to be different so as to give reason to pick different faction but also balanced. There are lots of other reasons. That all being said there are also reasons for it, so down the road once we have a well set scheme for adding new items and player trading I can see us adding loyalty points.

Being given a certain selection of fittings will not happen. Our game is built on the idea of players consuming items. That and when you put all this time and effort into building custom fits, skilling into specific fits, and all that sort of stuff going into a more advanced game mode and being told you are limited to specific fits that you didn't create... that isn't so fun.

Good stuff though and thanks for sharing! :D

So you are suggesting picking a side in advance and only ever fighting for that side? What about if your friends picked a different faction and you want to play with them?

So you are suggesting picking a side in advance and only ever fighting for that side? What about if your friends picked a different faction and you want to play with them?

Would make it so that loyalty Meant nothing as you could attain the points from fighting for anyone. Racial bonuses are badbecause it basically forces the player to fight for a faction they may not like to get the gear they want.

THAT HOW IT WORKS. why don't people get that.... you aren't supposed to really be able to run Minmatar one day and then Amarr the next....it defeats the purpose of LOYALTY to your chosen faction....

Essentially I only even play dust for FW.... without a reason/ reward for being aligned to one faction and showing loyalty why do I even both.

I love fighting for the Amarr..... but there is nothing more than my enthusiasm that is holding me to that....and some days I can't even find that enough to play this game....

Last thing I want to see is some Minmatar tool running around with a factionalised Amarrian laser rifle.... shows that that player was not only disloyal but only involved themselves in FW to get gear rather than even caring about the reasons for fighting.

THAT HOW IT WORKS. why don't people get that.... you aren't supposed to really be able to run Minmatar one day and then Amarr the next....it defeats the purpose of LOYALTY to your chosen faction....

Essentially I only even play dust for FW.... without a reason/ reward for being aligned to one faction and showing loyalty why do I even both.

I love fighting for the Amarr..... but there is nothing more than my enthusiasm that is holding me to that....and some days I can't even find that enough to play this game....

Last thing I want to see is some Minmatar tool running around with a factionalised Amarrian laser rifle.... shows that that player was not only disloyal but only involved themselves in FW to get gear rather than even caring about the reasons for fighting.

Razor, in defense of Adamance he appeared to be responding more towards Aeon who was suggesting someone may want to fight for a faction but not like the gear they give out as rewards, which is a bit defeating the purpose if you ask me.

As for your suggestion, it wouldn't make sense to have one single currency called "Faction Points." Why would one faction reward you with points and then you can spend them on another faction? And why would you be forced to selecting two factions to spend the points on and being locked forever? That would go against the idea that we are mercenaries and can change our allegiance if we so desire.

Standings are actually something we are looking at. We have a design rolling around for improvements to FW that involves them.

I am personally not a fan of loyalty points for a couple reasons; that doesn't mean they won't ever happen just a lot of discussion will have to happen first. They are another currency to keep track of, actually it would be 4 more currencies. It means we need equipment/weapons/dropsuits/whatever for all the races but they also need to be different so as to give reason to pick different faction but also balanced. There are lots of other reasons. That all being said there are also reasons for it, so down the road once we have a well set scheme for adding new items and player trading I can see us adding loyalty points.

Being given a certain selection of fittings will not happen. Our game is built on the idea of players consuming items. That and when you put all this time and effort into building custom fits, skilling into specific fits, and all that sort of stuff going into a more advanced game mode and being told you are limited to specific fits that you didn't create... that isn't so fun.

Good stuff though and thanks for sharing! :D

I picture standings being like:

Fight a battle for the AMARR=

Standings shift:

Amarr +5
Minmatar -5

or

Amarr +5
Caldari +1
Minmatar -5
Gallente -1

If you decide to change factions somewhere down the road, you'd have to dig yourself out if you were going Minmatar from Amarr. This is appropriate for a system predicated on "Loyalty".

Standings unlock faction-related gear.

On the low end, basic armaments, like 100 Amarr standing = slightly improved militia variants (Royal Surplus Medium Frame, Royal Surplus Heavy Frame, Royal Surplus Scrambler pistol, etc.). These are priced in ISK.

Higher tiers unlock improved versions, and more expensive types of gear. STD guns/suits might be unlocked at the same time as faction militia vehicles. BPO items (priced in AUR) are also unlocked past the regular tier, so you might be at ADV level standing-wise before you can buy a special faction-variant of a STD dropsuit or weapon (similar to an Exile or Raven suit).

It's important that faction rewards actually be unique. The recruit assault rifle is a good example - it's actually different from the militia weapon it's copying (higher damage). Even minor improvements like that can be a good incentive.

OH yay lets add more role play locking in a MERCENARY game

Why in the hell cant I i fight for Amarr with Minmatar gear. In the end the Factions are paying me ISK the whole point of being a dust merc is one of being apathetic to the cares of the capsuleers and the factions. Just because something is so in EVE DOES NOT make it so in Dust.

At the end of the day i should be able to fight for who i want and hell be able to also sabotage who i want. Obviously there has to a risk/reward mechanism involved so i cant just blatantly pick the opposing side and throw every match im in(though im told thats perfectly acceptable in New Eden).

Regardless we are mercenaries dont force the concept of being a foot soldier in an Race's army on the whole iteration. It's perfectly acceptable to make that subcomponent of the game by incentivizing toward loyalty but not by mandating it.

Could we not gain rank/standing based on performance. That leads to greater isk return I think it's a simple design problem and provides players a natural nudge out of instance battles and into FW.

Also earn shiny medals too :-P

Point of Factional Warfare as I see it is to fight for ONE faction at a time.... not jump ship every five or ten mins because of some petty reason. Basically standings make FW a more permanent decision because if you work for the Amarr for X days or weeks your standing with the Minnie will go down..... thus when you enter Minnie space you get targeted my Minnie NPCs.

OH yay lets add more role play locking in a MERCENARY game

Why in the hell cant I i fight for Amarr with Minmatar gear. In the end the Factions are paying me ISK the whole point of being a dust merc is one of being apathetic to the cares of the capsuleers and the factions. Just because something is so in EVE DOES NOT make it so in Dust.

At the end of the day i should be able to fight for who i want and hell be able to also sabotage who i want. Obviously there has to a risk/reward mechanism involved so i cant just blatantly pick the opposing side and throw every match im in(though im told thats perfectly acceptable in New Eden).

Regardless we are mercenaries dont force the concept of being a foot soldier in an Race's army on the whole iteration. It's perfectly acceptable to make that subcomponent of the game by incentivizing toward loyalty but not by mandating it.

Standing is between 10.0 - 0.0 there is no reason to change it. Also standing should not be lost or accrued at a rapid rate.

OH yay lets add more role play locking in a MERCENARY game

Why in the hell cant I i fight for Amarr with Minmatar gear. In the end the Factions are paying me ISK the whole point of being a dust merc is one of being apathetic to the cares of the capsuleers and the factions. Just because something is so in EVE DOES NOT make it so in Dust.

At the end of the day i should be able to fight for who i want and hell be able to also sabotage who i want. Obviously there has to a risk/reward mechanism involved so i cant just blatantly pick the opposing side and throw every match im in(though im told thats perfectly acceptable in New Eden).

Regardless we are mercenaries dont force the concept of being a foot soldier in an Race's army on the whole iteration. It's perfectly acceptable to make that subcomponent of the game by incentivizing toward loyalty but not by mandating it.

Here's a question for those presenting this design. If I grind to 5.0 standing with Caldari, and unlock some Navy level rail rifle, but choose to grind back my standing with Gallente by fighting for Minmatar, would/should I lose the ability to operate the Navy rail rifle once my standings dipped below 5.0 with Caldari?

Slow down man, nobody is saying we have to join the militia of one of the four empires. If you want to fight for Amarr while weaering Minmatar gear go for it, no one's stopping you. All we're saying is that there needs to be a reward for fighting in faction warfare, so why not have the factions offer you some unique versions of their gear?

Also EVE players are just as much mercenaries as we are. They are not apart of some empire-owned fleet.

This makes sense, but I'm wondering what would stop a Minmatar using Amarr gear or Caldari Gallente gear? Sometimes you do not select your equipment because of their origins, but for their practicality and for a purpose that specifically suits your needs. What I think is that the different dropsuits, equipment, vehicles etc. are available to everyone regardless of faction. I use Amarr heavy suits so I can use forge gun whenever needed for instance. I am wondering this more from an RP perspective, since from what I've collected on the posts in the IGS some of the characters in there only use the dropsuits of their own faction.

Ahhhh, Fox. This thread again.

I see you are still fighting against the currents of progress. While I don't envy the team the task of coming up with unique faction rewards, it is necessary. A player market can hardly exist if nothing of superior value and rarity is available to sell, and the officer weapons alone just aren't enough.

Plus, you know... "cool ****" is generally desirable to a fanbase.

Standing is between 10.0 - 0.0 there is no reason to change it. Also standing should not be lost or accrued at a rapid rate.

Standings are actually something we are looking at. We have a design rolling around for improvements to FW that involves them.

I am personally not a fan of loyalty points for a couple reasons; that doesn't mean they won't ever happen just a lot of discussion will have to happen first. They are another currency to keep track of, actually it would be 4 more currencies. It means we need equipment/weapons/dropsuits/whatever for all the races but they also need to be different so as to give reason to pick different faction but also balanced. There are lots of other reasons. That all being said there are also reasons for it, so down the road once we have a well set scheme for adding new items and player trading I can see us adding loyalty points.

Being given a certain selection of fittings will not happen. Our game is built on the idea of players consuming items. That and when you put all this time and effort into building custom fits, skilling into specific fits, and all that sort of stuff going into a more advanced game mode and being told you are limited to specific fits that you didn't create... that isn't so fun.

Good stuff though and thanks for sharing! :D

Of course not, that wouldn't make any sense. If you could use it before you should always be able to use it.

I see it is you gain standing with one of the empires and that standing gives you access to special stores with unique gear you pay for with ISK/AUR. If you however prefer to play in a Caldari dropsuit with a Gallente assault rifle you could simply work your way up in the standings for Caldari, stock up on loads and loads of the special Caldari dropsuit, then start working your way up in Gallente standings to buy the special assault rifles. You'd lose your access to purchase more of the special Caldari dropsuits, but you can still use the ones you already bought (provided you are skilled into them).

THAT HOW IT WORKS. why don't people get that.... you aren't supposed to really be able to run Minmatar one day and then Amarr the next....it defeats the purpose of LOYALTY to your chosen faction....

Essentially I only even play dust for FW.... without a reason/ reward for being aligned to one faction and showing loyalty why do I even both.

I love fighting for the Amarr..... but there is nothing more than my enthusiasm that is holding me to that....and some days I can't even find that enough to play this game....

Last thing I want to see is some Minmatar tool running around with a factionalised Amarrian laser rifle.... shows that that player was not only disloyal but only involved themselves in FW to get gear rather than even caring about the reasons for fighting.

I said nothing about directly mirroring the EVE system, I was proposing a system for "Standings" - this is a word that exists exterior to EVE. Nothing I said suggested that we need some system existing on a 10.0 - 0 level. I was choosing arbitrary values that specifically (if you work on your reading comprehension, you can see where I refer to Amarr standing at 100.

If we're gaining at a rate of +5 or whatever, the overall range might be a 1000 to -1000, with tiers for unlocks of varying types of gear being along the way.

As for no reason to "change it" - it doesn't friggin exist in Dust, so there's nothing to change. The accrual I suggested wouldn't be particularly rapid. There's no reason to directly copy EVE either, as we're not getting most of what they get anyway. We didn't necessarily start playing this game to start "ground-EVE". A different system is fine.

Allow pilots to pool ISK EVE side and mercs to pool ISK DUST side. If some pilots wanted to take a system easier they would add to the mercenary pool for the system they want control of and the pool of ISK would be divided up to battles. Mercs in DUST can see the ISK pool and decide to take the contract.

Mercs on the ground could pool ISK for pilots to plex EVE side. The pilots would see the pool of ISK and start the site and generate a battle. The pilots in system would receive a message telling the planet and district being fought over and request Orbital Support for ISK rewards. Send pilots a kill mail and ISK payment from the pooled mercenary ISK.

Allow players to pool ISK to encourage FW play. It would also open a small window for ISK transfers both ways and add more interactions between the games. We all talk about emergent game play and nothing creates content like money.

No matter what the final system is... faction warfare should have unique rewards that you cannot get from playing in IB/PC in order to make the game mode worth playing.

I just hope you guys move away from the carebear IB system and make rewards based on performance... not time spent like it is in IB.

No matter what the final system is... faction warfare should have unique rewards that you cannot get from playing in IB/PC in order to make the game mode worth playing.

I just hope you guys move away from the carebear IB system and make rewards based on performance... not time spent like it is in IB.

Instant battles? Cuz i mean..... you do get rewarded for playing better. If i do really well ill get 400k isk instead of 250k like normal. But i see what your saying. Don't worry, im pretty sure CCP will incentivize the hell out of FW.

OH yay lets add more role play locking in a MERCENARY game

Why in the hell cant I i fight for Amarr with Minmatar gear. In the end the Factions are paying me ISK the whole point of being a dust merc is one of being apathetic to the cares of the capsuleers and the factions. Just because something is so in EVE DOES NOT make it so in Dust.

At the end of the day i should be able to fight for who i want and hell be able to also sabotage who i want. Obviously there has to a risk/reward mechanism involved so i cant just blatantly pick the opposing side and throw every match im in(though im told thats perfectly acceptable in New Eden).

Regardless we are mercenaries dont force the concept of being a foot soldier in an Race's army on the whole iteration. It's perfectly acceptable to make that subcomponent of the game by incentivizing toward loyalty but not by mandating it.

I'm down for anything that gives us more to grind for. Without more options, the burn out factor is going to be relatively high. The point is to consume items? Wouldn't creating more content to consume be a good thing, especially content you have to grind/fight for?

But that's just like giving money for money. Not to mention i don't see the reason either side would "pool" isk to the other. Theres no incentive to that. Its not like either side gets anything out of pooling isk..... so why bother doing it when you should still be able to play in the match to begin with?

I just mean, they need to work the system so that people aren't afk farming faction standings. and that running around derping in militia gear getting 150 WP in a match shouldn't get you far.

FW should be for the proto pubstompers while IB is for the newbies trying to level up.

and btw... for people like me.. isk is generally meaningless.

My team and I could put 2 M each up for an incentive for eve pilots to run a site. The pilots would get LP from EVE and ISK from DUST. The pilots in EVE would do the same type of thing if they want more control over a system. The payout from the battle would be better because the FW pilots would be adding ISK to the payout.

I viewed it as the other way around. The whole reason i proposed "set suit fittings" was to "even the playing field" for the noobs. You know..... throwing them a bone or two. I mean, FW should be a place for everyone in my opinion, Null sec PVP is where the "pros" go, not FW. And if your rocking a suit that costs 1M per fit I don't care how rich you are, you can only afford to lose those so often. Your right..... isk doesn't mean much at all right now (especially between veteran players like you or I) However, that's only because of the absence of something to spend all that money on. Theres nothing for us to buy that would actually dig into our wallets. Once CCP fills in that gap your Isk will mean a bit more to you.

I viewed it as the other way around. The whole reason i proposed "set suit fittings" was to "even the playing field" for the noobs. You know..... throwing them a bone or two. I mean, FW should be a place for everyone in my opinion, Null sec PVP is where the "pros" go, not FW. And if your rocking a suit that costs 1M per fit I don't care how rich you are, you can only afford to lose those so often. Your right..... isk doesn't mean much at all right now (especially between veteran players like you or I) However, that's only because of the absence of something to spend all that money on. Theres nothing for us to buy that would actually dig into our wallets. Once CCP fills in that gap your Isk will mean a bit more to you.

I think FW should be the battlegrounds from which grisled and cynical veterans BECOME mercenaries.

This is why I've suggested in the past, this idea:

The only 'resource' that comes from FW (besides isk and salvage) should be a kind of commoditized 'command points'.

Command Points (CP) - Points accumulated by squad leaders and members through their own or actions performed by the squad. They are the points that come above and beyond regular actions out of adherance to squad commands.

E.g. - A kill near a defense order normally gives 60 wp. The 10 additional points from the command are '10 command points.

Players accumulate CP that can be spent on other FW matches or PC matches. Players with enough saved CP can choose from a table of increasingly beneficial and economically/strategically helpful alternatives in matches. Therefore players with huge banks of saved CP, could be useful in PC for their accumulated 'strategic wealth' rather than just skill. There would be a significant bonus to CP earned if you win a FW match.

Possible 'Command Point Orders' could include:

Strategic:
- +5% to +15% HP for MCC at beginning of match
- +5% to +15% HP heal for MCC during match
- clone reinforcements
- clone stealing
- reveal map for x minutes
- all squads start with an orbital
- all actively loading enemy hacks can be cancelled
- jam enemy sensor systems for x minutes
- etc...

Economic:
- [PC] You can steal +25% more clones if victorious in battle.
- [PC] Minimum clone loss is -20% to -50%.
- [PC] Any clones sold for biomass returns +10% to +20% greater isk.
- [FW] Squad has an increased chance to get officer weapons.
- [FW] Squad gets +25% to +50% greater bonus SP return from wp in battle.
- [FW] Contractors' insurance covers 20% to 50% of all losses during battle in the form of extra payout following game.
- etc...

This would encourage better squadding and coordination during FW matches. Larger squads would naturally get more points.

Standings are actually something we are looking at. We have a design rolling around for improvements to FW that involves them.

I am personally not a fan of loyalty points for a couple reasons; that doesn't mean they won't ever happen just a lot of discussion will have to happen first. They are another currency to keep track of, actually it would be 4 more currencies. It means we need equipment/weapons/dropsuits/whatever for all the races but they also need to be different so as to give reason to pick different faction but also balanced. There are lots of other reasons. That all being said there are also reasons for it, so down the road once we have a well set scheme for adding new items and player trading I can see us adding loyalty points.

Being given a certain selection of fittings will not happen. Our game is built on the idea of players consuming items. That and when you put all this time and effort into building custom fits, skilling into specific fits, and all that sort of stuff going into a more advanced game mode and being told you are limited to specific fits that you didn't create... that isn't so fun.

Good stuff though and thanks for sharing! :D