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MlDDLE MANGEMENT lMPurity 132	Posted - 2013.07.16 12:41:00 - [31] - Quote OH yay lets add more role play locking in a MERCENARY game Why in the hell cant I i fight for Amarr with Minmatar gear. In the end the Factions are paying me ISK the whole point of being a dust merc is one of being apathetic to the cares of the capsuleers and the factions. Just because something is so in EVE DOES NOT make it so in Dust. At the end of the day i should be able to fight for who i want and hell be able to also sabotage who i want. Obviously there has to a risk/reward mechanism involved so i cant just blatantly pick the opposing side and throw every match im in(though im told thats perfectly acceptable in New Eden). Regardless we are mercenaries dont force the concept of being a foot soldier in an Race's army on the whole iteration. It's perfectly acceptable to make that subcomponent of the game by incentivizing toward loyalty but not by mandating it.
steadyhand amarr Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 933	Posted - 2013.07.16 12:51:00 - [32] - Quote Could we not gain rank/standing based on performance. That leads to greater isk return I think it's a simple design problem and provides players a natural nudge out of instance battles and into FW. Also earn shiny medals too :-P
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 721	Posted - 2013.07.16 12:54:00 - [33] - Quote MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: OH yay lets add more role play locking in a MERCENARY game Why in the hell cant I i fight for Amarr with Minmatar gear. In the end the Factions are paying me ISK the whole point of being a dust merc is one of being apathetic to the cares of the capsuleers and the factions. Just because something is so in EVE DOES NOT make it so in Dust. At the end of the day i should be able to fight for who i want and hell be able to also sabotage who i want. Obviously there has to a risk/reward mechanism involved so i cant just blatantly pick the opposing side and throw every match im in(though im told thats perfectly acceptable in New Eden). Regardless we are mercenaries dont force the concept of being a foot soldier in an Race's army on the whole iteration. It's perfectly acceptable to make that subcomponent of the game by incentivizing toward loyalty but not by mandating it. Not saying you can't fight for whoever you want but when people ***** and moan because they aren't getting the full benefits of something because they put less than meaningful time into something is no justification for complaining.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 721	Posted - 2013.07.16 12:55:00 - [34] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Could we not gain rank/standing based on performance. That leads to greater isk return I think it's a simple design problem and provides players a natural nudge out of instance battles and into FW. Also earn shiny medals too :-P Already got me a medal from Fleet Command, and I'm damn proud of it. Amarr Victor
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 578	Posted - 2013.07.16 12:59:00 - [35] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Point of Factional Warfare as I see it is to fight for ONE faction at a time.... not jump ship every five or ten mins because of some petty reason. Basically standings make FW a more permanent decision because if you work for the Amarr for X days or weeks your standing with the Minnie will go down..... thus when you enter Minnie space you get targeted my Minnie NPCs. Agreed, all I'm saying is that if it should not be a permanent decision. If you were fighting for Gallente for a year and all of a sudden decide you want to fight for Caldari you should be allowed to do it, but it would take a considerably longer to gain standings with the Caldari.
Thor McStrut Reckoners 65	Posted - 2013.07.16 13:00:00 - [36] - Quote MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: OH yay lets add more role play locking in a MERCENARY game Why in the hell cant I i fight for Amarr with Minmatar gear. In the end the Factions are paying me ISK the whole point of being a dust merc is one of being apathetic to the cares of the capsuleers and the factions. Just because something is so in EVE DOES NOT make it so in Dust. At the end of the day i should be able to fight for who i want and hell be able to also sabotage who i want. Obviously there has to a risk/reward mechanism involved so i cant just blatantly pick the opposing side and throw every match im in(though im told thats perfectly acceptable in New Eden). Regardless we are mercenaries dont force the concept of being a foot soldier in an Race's army on the whole iteration. It's perfectly acceptable to make that subcomponent of the game by incentivizing toward loyalty but not by mandating it. Everything that I've read leading up to your post isn't suggesting that anyone be "locked" into anything. But that if you so choose to fight for one faction, that there is some reward/incentive for doing so. Personally, I like the standings idea. Once you reach a certain standing, it opens up racial specific gear that can offer better attributes, but nothing like Officer level gear. Here's a question for those presenting this design. If I grind to 5.0 standing with Caldari, and unlock some Navy level rail rifle, but choose to grind back my standing with Gallente by fighting for Minmatar, would/should I lose the ability to operate the Navy rail rifle once my standings dipped below 5.0 with Caldari?
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 578	Posted - 2013.07.16 13:04:00 - [37] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: I picture standings being like: Fight a battle for the AMARR= Standings shift: Amarr +5 Minmatar -5 or Amarr +5 Caldari +1 Minmatar -5 Gallente -1 If you decide to change factions somewhere down the road, you'd have to dig yourself out if you were going Minmatar from Amarr. This is appropriate for a system predicated on "Loyalty". Standings unlock faction-related gear. On the low end, basic armaments, like 100 Amarr standing = slightly improved militia variants (Royal Surplus Medium Frame, Royal Surplus Heavy Frame, Royal Surplus Scrambler pistol, etc.). These are priced in ISK. Higher tiers unlock improved versions, and more expensive types of gear. STD guns/suits might be unlocked at the same time as faction militia vehicles. BPO items (priced in AUR) are also unlocked past the regular tier, so you might be at ADV level standing-wise before you can buy a special faction-variant of a STD dropsuit or weapon (similar to an Exile or Raven suit). It's important that faction rewards actually be unique. The recruit assault rifle is a good example - it's actually different from the militia weapon it's copying (higher damage). Even minor improvements like that can be a good incentive. Standing is between 10.0 - 0.0 there is no reason to change it. Also standing should not be lost or accrued at a rapid rate. On the contrary, would would standings be if you cannot lose it? Whoever you are fighting for, you should lose standing with their enemy (including going negative, perhaps with a floor cap).
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 578	Posted - 2013.07.16 13:06:00 - [38] - Quote MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: OH yay lets add more role play locking in a MERCENARY game Why in the hell cant I i fight for Amarr with Minmatar gear. In the end the Factions are paying me ISK the whole point of being a dust merc is one of being apathetic to the cares of the capsuleers and the factions. Just because something is so in EVE DOES NOT make it so in Dust. At the end of the day i should be able to fight for who i want and hell be able to also sabotage who i want. Obviously there has to a risk/reward mechanism involved so i cant just blatantly pick the opposing side and throw every match im in(though im told thats perfectly acceptable in New Eden). Regardless we are mercenaries dont force the concept of being a foot soldier in an Race's army on the whole iteration. It's perfectly acceptable to make that subcomponent of the game by incentivizing toward loyalty but not by mandating it. Slow down man, nobody is saying we have to join the militia of one of the four empires. If you want to fight for Amarr while weaering Minmatar gear go for it, no one's stopping you. All we're saying is that there needs to be a reward for fighting in faction warfare, so why not have the factions offer you some unique versions of their gear? Also EVE players are just as much mercenaries as we are. They are not apart of some empire-owned fleet.
Gorra Snell BetaMax. CRONOS. 54	Posted - 2013.07.16 13:11:00 - [39] - Quote I think, FoxFour, that you've come out against this sort of thing in the past based on the idea that loyalty to a particular faction is contrary to the very idea of what a mercenary is. If I'm not misremembering, and if you still have reservations on that basis, I'd suggest glancing over a couple of histories ( http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Northwind_Highlanders and http://www.sarna.net/wiki/McCarron%27s_Armored_Cavalry) about some of the mercenary groups from the Battletech universe, who worked for a single employer for a very long time. I think mercenaries can very believably be loyal to a group for the length of a war, and possibly indefinitely. Maybe they're just mercenaries because they don't want to deal with the normal chain of command, but believe in the cause their side is fighting for?
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 578	Posted - 2013.07.16 13:11:00 - [40] - Quote Thor McStrut wrote: Here's a question for those presenting this design. If I grind to 5.0 standing with Caldari, and unlock some Navy level rail rifle, but choose to grind back my standing with Gallente by fighting for Minmatar, would/should I lose the ability to operate the Navy rail rifle once my standings dipped below 5.0 with Caldari? Of course not, that wouldn't make any sense. If you could use it before you should always be able to use it. I see it is you gain standing with one of the empires and that standing gives you access to special stores with unique gear you pay for with ISK/AUR. If you however prefer to play in a Caldari dropsuit with a Gallente assault rifle you could simply work your way up in the standings for Caldari, stock up on loads and loads of the special Caldari dropsuit, then start working your way up in Gallente standings to buy the special assault rifles. You'd lose your access to purchase more of the special Caldari dropsuits, but you can still use the ones you already bought (provided you are skilled into them).

Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 250	Posted - 2013.07.16 13:12:00 - [41] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: OH yay lets add more role play locking in a MERCENARY game Why in the hell cant I i fight for Amarr with Minmatar gear. In the end the Factions are paying me ISK the whole point of being a dust merc is one of being apathetic to the cares of the capsuleers and the factions. Just because something is so in EVE DOES NOT make it so in Dust. At the end of the day i should be able to fight for who i want and hell be able to also sabotage who i want. Obviously there has to a risk/reward mechanism involved so i cant just blatantly pick the opposing side and throw every match im in(though im told thats perfectly acceptable in New Eden). Regardless we are mercenaries dont force the concept of being a foot soldier in an Race's army on the whole iteration. It's perfectly acceptable to make that subcomponent of the game by incentivizing toward loyalty but not by mandating it. Slow down man, nobody is saying we have to join the militia of one of the four empires. If you want to fight for Amarr while weaering Minmatar gear go for it, no one's stopping you. All we're saying is that there needs to be a reward for fighting in faction warfare, so why not have the factions offer you some unique versions of their gear? Also EVE players are just as much mercenaries as we are. They are not apart of some empire-owned fleet. This makes sense, but I'm wondering what would stop a Minmatar using Amarr gear or Caldari Gallente gear? Sometimes you do not select your equipment because of their origins, but for their practicality and for a purpose that specifically suits your needs. What I think is that the different dropsuits, equipment, vehicles etc. are available to everyone regardless of faction. I use Amarr heavy suits so I can use forge gun whenever needed for instance. I am wondering this more from an RP perspective, since from what I've collected on the posts in the IGS some of the characters in there only use the dropsuits of their own faction.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 885	Posted - 2013.07.16 13:17:00 - [42] - Quote Ahhhh, Fox. This thread again. I see you are still fighting against the currents of progress. While I don't envy the team the task of coming up with unique faction rewards, it is necessary. A player market can hardly exist if nothing of superior value and rarity is available to sell, and the officer weapons alone just aren't enough.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 578	Posted - 2013.07.16 13:21:00 - [43] - Quote Denak Kalamari wrote: This makes sense, but I'm wondering what would stop a Minmatar using Amarr gear or Caldari Gallente gear? Sometimes you do not select your equipment because of their origins, but for their practicality and for a purpose that specifically suits your needs. What I think is that the different dropsuits, equipment, vehicles etc. are available to everyone regardless of faction. I use Amarr heavy suits so I can use forge gun whenever needed for instance. I am wondering this more from an RP perspective, since from what I've collected on the posts in the IGS some of the characters in there only use the dropsuits of their own faction. Nothing, and nothing should. Your race is simply your origins, it doesn't necessarily reflect your beliefs. From a RP perspective, my corporation, PIE Inc., is a RP corp and we only accept those with an Amarrian bloodline. However, we have a sister corporation, PAUX, which accepts Gallente, Caldari, and Minmatar bloodlines who still wish to fight for Amarr. When you look at the demographics, many Amarr citizens are from non-Amarr bloodlines. And right here in the IGS we have an example of a mercenary of Gallente origin denouncing his Federation citizenship and joining the Amarr. Of course I'm just using Amarr as my example, but the same can be said for any of the races.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 578	Posted - 2013.07.16 13:24:00 - [44] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Ahhhh, Fox. This thread again. I see you are still fighting against the currents of progress. While I don't envy the team the task of coming up with unique faction rewards, it is necessary. A player market can hardly exist if nothing of superior value and rarity is available to sell, and the officer weapons alone just aren't enough. Plus, you know... "cool ****" is generally desirable to a fanbase. Ah, this brings up a good point. Using the notion of standings giving you access to special faction markets that still use ISK/AUR, if you are in the majority of Dust players who use a combination of different racial gear, you could use the player-to-player market to get the special gear from the stores you do not have access to.
Himiko Kuronaga SyNergy Gaming EoN. 886	Posted - 2013.07.16 13:32:00 - [45] - Quote Yup. It's one of the primary driving factors behind the Eve economy. Foxy knows this already, so I'm not entirely sure as to why he is against the idea other than "God damnit, not more work!"
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 653	Posted - 2013.07.16 14:14:00 - [46] - Quote Allow pilots to pool ISK EVE side and mercs to pool ISK DUST side. If some pilots wanted to take a system easier they would add to the mercenary pool for the system they want control of and the pool of ISK would be divided up to battles. Mercs in DUST can see the ISK pool and decide to take the contract. Mercs on the ground could pool ISK for pilots to plex EVE side. The pilots would see the pool of ISK and start the site and generate a battle. The pilots in system would receive a message telling the planet and district being fought over and request Orbital Support for ISK rewards. Send pilots a kill mail and ISK payment from the pooled mercenary ISK. Allow players to pool ISK to encourage FW play. It would also open a small window for ISK transfers both ways and add more interactions between the games. We all talk about emergent game play and nothing creates content like money.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1327	Posted - 2013.07.16 16:44:00 - [47] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: I picture standings being like: Fight a battle for the AMARR= Standings shift: Amarr +5 Minmatar -5 or Amarr +5 Caldari +1 Minmatar -5 Gallente -1 If you decide to change factions somewhere down the road, you'd have to dig yourself out if you were going Minmatar from Amarr. This is appropriate for a system predicated on "Loyalty". Standings unlock faction-related gear. On the low end, basic armaments, like 100 Amarr standing = slightly improved militia variants (Royal Surplus Medium Frame, Royal Surplus Heavy Frame, Royal Surplus Scrambler pistol, etc.). These are priced in ISK. Higher tiers unlock improved versions, and more expensive types of gear. STD guns/suits might be unlocked at the same time as faction militia vehicles. BPO items (priced in AUR) are also unlocked past the regular tier, so you might be at ADV level standing-wise before you can buy a special faction-variant of a STD dropsuit or weapon (similar to an Exile or Raven suit). It's important that faction rewards actually be unique. The recruit assault rifle is a good example - it's actually different from the militia weapon it's copying (higher damage). Even minor improvements like that can be a good incentive. Standing is between 10.0 - 0.0 there is no reason to change it. Also standing should not be lost or accrued at a rapid rate. I said nothing about directly mirroring the EVE system, I was proposing a system for "Standings" - this is a word that exists exterior to EVE. Nothing I said suggested that we need some system existing on a 10.0 - 0 level. I was choosing arbitrary values that specifically (if you work on your reading comprehension, you can see where I refer to Amarr standing at 100. If we're gaining at a rate of +5 or whatever, the overall range might be a 1000 to -1000, with tiers for unlocks of varying types of gear being along the way. As for no reason to "change it" - it doesn't friggin exist in Dust, so there's nothing to change. The accrual I suggested wouldn't be particularly rapid. There's no reason to directly copy EVE either, as we're not getting most of what they get anyway. We didn't necessarily start playing this game to start "ground-EVE". A different system is fine.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 591	Posted - 2013.07.16 16:56:00 - [48] - Quote CCP FoxFour wrote: Standings are actually something we are looking at. We have a design rolling around for improvements to FW that involves them. I am personally not a fan of loyalty points for a couple reasons; that doesn't mean they won't ever happen just a lot of discussion will have to happen first. They are another currency to keep track of, actually it would be 4 more currencies. It means we need equipment/weapons/dropsuits/whatever for all the races but they also need to be different so as to give reason to pick different faction but also balanced. There are lots of other reasons. That all being said there are also reasons for it, so down the road once we have a well set scheme for adding new items and player trading I can see us adding loyalty points. Being given a certain selection of fittings will not happen. Our game is built on the idea of players consuming items. That and when you put all this time and effort into building custom fits, skilling into specific fits, and all that sort of stuff going into a more advanced game mode and being told you are limited to specific fits that you didn't create... that isn't so fun. Good stuff though and thanks for sharing! :D Right, i understand what you mean in regards to the extra currency and even the balancing issue. The reason i brought LP up is because, in my mind, it provides a more "reliable" means of obtaining items rather then hoping you get them via loot. However, after thinking about it..... There really isn't much a of a point to them. The faction items might as well just be sold for higher amounts of isk because its not the LP that unlocks the items for you, its your standing with that faction. So yeah..... LP, scrapped. Unless they could be used to get other, non isk items. Or Perhaps you can use LP like tags in eve and exchange them for isk? Not sure...... As far as balancing goes...... In my mind these "faction items" should only have a marginal performance increase for a premium price. FOR EXAMPLE: A complex armor plate might cost 20k isk in the market, it provides 125 HP with a 30 CPU and 15 PG fitting requirement. The faction variant of this plate would cost 100k isk, but gives 135 HP with a 25 and 10 PG fitting requirement. This is an advantage, HOWEVER the cost of the plate makes it extremely risky to use. Because if someone is fitting a suit with all faction items the overall price of the suit should be well over 500k which is a huge amount to lose to something like a shotgunner/ sniper/ Lav ect..... And as for the "limited fitting selection" Sure its not fun being restricted to one to three types of suits HOWEVER its equally as bad when the best suit you can run is a standard assault suit, when your surrounded by all these god squads rocking Proto/officer gear. This would be only one game mode, AND it wouldn't even have to be permanent if you guys come out with some sort of ulterior noob mode. I mean ive got 16M SP so this doesn't really bother/effect me. I just thought it was something nice to throw in considering that FW is something i view as a "starter" thing for newer players to get into. Kind of like..... getting used to the idea behind the game in a controlled environment. But yeah, i understand your point of view as well so..... mehhh I guess ill see how this all goes down the road.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 591	Posted - 2013.07.16 17:04:00 - [49] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Thor McStrut wrote: Here's a question for those presenting this design. If I grind to 5.0 standing with Caldari, and unlock some Navy level rail rifle, but choose to grind back my standing with Gallente by fighting for Minmatar, would/should I lose the ability to operate the Navy rail rifle once my standings dipped below 5.0 with Caldari? Of course not, that wouldn't make any sense. If you could use it before you should always be able to use it. I see it is you gain standing with one of the empires and that standing gives you access to special stores with unique gear you pay for with ISK/AUR. If you however prefer to play in a Caldari dropsuit with a Gallente assault rifle you could simply work your way up in the standings for Caldari, stock up on loads and loads of the special Caldari dropsuit, then start working your way up in Gallente standings to buy the special assault rifles. You'd lose your access to purchase more of the special Caldari dropsuits, but you can still use the ones you already bought (provided you are skilled into them). Yup, that's basically how i view it as. You should be able to fit whatever you want on whatever you want (so long as the requirements for PG/CPU are met) Having a +10 standing with a faction makes it so that you can finally purchase their faction specific items HOWEVER you need to have the skills for that race unlocked just like you would any other suit. AND you need to have level 5 in BOTH the racial AND basic skills. adding an additional 1M SP required to use said items.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 591	Posted - 2013.07.16 17:14:00 - [50] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Razor Signal wrote: CCP FoxFour wrote: Standings are actually something we are looking at. We have a design rolling around for improvements to FW that involves them. I am personally not a fan of loyalty points for a couple reasons; that doesn't mean they won't ever happen just a lot of discussion will have to happen first. They are another currency to keep track of, actually it would be 4 more currencies. It means we need equipment/weapons/dropsuits/whatever for all the races but they also need to be different so as to give reason to pick different faction but also balanced. There are lots of other reasons. That all being said there are also reasons for it, so down the road once we have a well set scheme for adding new items and player trading I can see us adding loyalty points. Being given a certain selection of fittings will not happen. Our game is built on the idea of players consuming items. That and when you put all this time and effort into building custom fits, skilling into specific fits, and all that sort of stuff going into a more advanced game mode and being told you are limited to specific fits that you didn't create... that isn't so fun. Good stuff though and thanks for sharing! :D Why would it have to be four specific currencies and not just a general currency; Faction Points? It could be one, universal currency used for whatever faction you want to focus on while your race would offer a racial bonus to your race's faction (toward points, 5-10%), assuming you fight on their side. Otherwise, you could use the currency to unlock whatever you like but you would only get to choose two different factions to use the points on. Once those factions are unlocked, there's no going back. Would make it so that loyalty Meant nothing as you could attain the points from fighting for anyone. Racial bonuses are badbecause it basically forces the player to fight for a faction they may not like to get the gear they want. THAT HOW IT WORKS. why don't people get that.... you aren't supposed to really be able to run Minmatar one day and then Amarr the next....it defeats the purpose of LOYALTY to your chosen faction.... Essentially I only even play dust for FW.... without a reason/ reward for being aligned to one faction and showing loyalty why do I even both. I love fighting for the Amarr..... but there is nothing more than my enthusiasm that is holding me to that....and some days I can't even find that enough to play this game.... Last thing I want to see is some Minmatar tool running around with a factionalised Amarrian laser rifle.... shows that that player was not only disloyal but only involved themselves in FW to get gear rather than even caring about the reasons for fighting. How about this idea then. Under the rules stipulated in my original post, a player would lose 1 standing point every week they don't play for their faction HOWEVER if a player wants to get faction gear of every race, then what they could do instead is fight for..... well EVERY race. BUT theres a catch. As the amount of different races you fight for goes up, the rate at which your standings deteriorate ALSO goes up. So what this means is that, if you fight for all Four Races your standings will go down for all Four races 1 point EVERY DAY, instead of once every week. This means you "can" fight for all Four, but to maintain your standings you're standings with all four you've gotta work your ass off. and it could even work a bit more dynamically then that too! Lets say you only want Amarr and Caldari gear, so you gain loyalty for both, and you lose your standings a bit quicker. However, the penalty for befriending both Amar and Caldari is less then befriending Amar and Minmatar simply because Caldari and Amar are less bitter towards each other in comparison to Minmatar and Amar. So in practice this means that, siding with Caldari and Amar will increase your standing deflation rate from once ever week to once every 5 days. Meanwhile if you did Minmatar and Amar the deflation rate will be Once every 3 days instead of 5. If you throw a third nation in it decreases to once every 2 days, with the fourth nation turning it into 1 point lost per day that you don't fight for your faction. ALSO KEEP IN MIND THAT, The 1 per day rate or any other rate will only be that fast as long as you have a standing with other nations. So if you get a +10 standing for Amar, but only +5 standings with the other three, your standings will deteriorate at 1 per day for 5 days until the only standing you have left is +5 with Amar which will then switch back to 1 point per week. This idea in conclusion, would allow for players to fight for every faction if they chose..... it would just be FAR more difficult to pull it off because to maintain +10 standings with all four nations you would have to play a minimum of FOUR games per day, otherwise you'd lose the +10 and be unable to purchase anything from their stores..... Or at-least that's how i would do it.

Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 591	Posted - 2013.07.16 17:16:00 - [51] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: True Adamance wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: I picture standings being like: Fight a battle for the AMARR= Standings shift: Amarr +5 Minmatar -5 or Amarr +5 Caldari +1 Minmatar -5 Gallente -1 If you decide to change factions somewhere down the road, you'd have to dig yourself out if you were going Minmatar from Amarr. This is appropriate for a system predicated on "Loyalty". Standings unlock faction-related gear. On the low end, basic armaments, like 100 Amarr standing = slightly improved militia variants (Royal Surplus Medium Frame, Royal Surplus Heavy Frame, Royal Surplus Scrambler pistol, etc.). These are priced in ISK. Higher tiers unlock improved versions, and more expensive types of gear. STD guns/suits might be unlocked at the same time as faction militia vehicles. BPO items (priced in AUR) are also unlocked past the regular tier, so you might be at ADV level standing-wise before you can buy a special faction-variant of a STD dropsuit or weapon (similar to an Exile or Raven suit). It's important that faction rewards actually be unique. The recruit assault rifle is a good example - it's actually different from the militia weapon it's copying (higher damage). Even minor improvements like that can be a good incentive. Standing is between 10.0 - 0.0 there is no reason to change it. Also standing should not be lost or accrued at a rapid rate. I said nothing about directly mirroring the EVE system, I was proposing a system for "Standings" - this is a word that exists exterior to EVE. Nothing I said suggested that we need some system existing on a 10.0 - 0 level. I was choosing arbitrary values that specifically (if you work on your reading comprehension, you can see where I refer to Amarr standing at 100. If we're gaining at a rate of +5 or whatever, the overall range might be a 1000 to -1000, with tiers for unlocks of varying types of gear being along the way. As for no reason to "change it" - it doesn't friggin exist in Dust, so there's nothing to change. The accrual I suggested wouldn't be particularly rapid. There's no reason to directly copy EVE either, as we're not getting most of what they get anyway. We didn't necessarily start playing this game to start "ground-EVE". A different system is fine. I understand what your saying...... but..... i like EVE, i think its fun. I would like them to copy as much as they can from it because (aside from space combat) that stuff would make this game awesome!
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 940	Posted - 2013.07.16 17:19:00 - [52] - Quote No matter what the final system is... faction warfare should have unique rewards that you cannot get from playing in IB/PC in order to make the game mode worth playing. I just hope you guys move away from the carebear IB system and make rewards based on performance... not time spent like it is in IB.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 591	Posted - 2013.07.16 17:19:00 - [53] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: Allow pilots to pool ISK EVE side and mercs to pool ISK DUST side. If some pilots wanted to take a system easier they would add to the mercenary pool for the system they want control of and the pool of ISK would be divided up to battles. Mercs in DUST can see the ISK pool and decide to take the contract. Mercs on the ground could pool ISK for pilots to plex EVE side. The pilots would see the pool of ISK and start the site and generate a battle. The pilots in system would receive a message telling the planet and district being fought over and request Orbital Support for ISK rewards. Send pilots a kill mail and ISK payment from the pooled mercenary ISK. Allow players to pool ISK to encourage FW play. It would also open a small window for ISK transfers both ways and add more interactions between the games. We all talk about emergent game play and nothing creates content like money. But that's just like giving money for money. Not to mention i don't see the reason either side would "pool" isk to the other. Theres no incentive to that. Its not like either side gets anything out of pooling isk..... so why bother doing it when you should still be able to play in the match to begin with?
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 591	Posted - 2013.07.16 17:21:00 - [54] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: No matter what the final system is... faction warfare should have unique rewards that you cannot get from playing in IB/PC in order to make the game mode worth playing. I just hope you guys move away from the carebear IB system and make rewards based on performance... not time spent like it is in IB. Whats IB?
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 591	Posted - 2013.07.16 17:23:00 - [55] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: No matter what the final system is... faction warfare should have unique rewards that you cannot get from playing in IB/PC in order to make the game mode worth playing. I just hope you guys move away from the carebear IB system and make rewards based on performance... not time spent like it is in IB. Instant battles? Cuz i mean..... you do get rewarded for playing better. If i do really well ill get 400k isk instead of 250k like normal. But i see what your saying. Don't worry, im pretty sure CCP will incentivize the hell out of FW.
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers EoN. 940	Posted - 2013.07.16 17:24:00 - [56] - Quote Marston VC wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: No matter what the final system is... faction warfare should have unique rewards that you cannot get from playing in IB/PC in order to make the game mode worth playing. I just hope you guys move away from the carebear IB system and make rewards based on performance... not time spent like it is in IB. Instant battles? Cuz i mean..... you do get rewarded for playing better. If i do really well ill get 400k isk instead of 250k like normal. But i see what your saying. Don't worry, im pretty sure CCP will incentivize the hell out of FW. I just mean, they need to work the system so that people aren't afk farming faction standings. and that running around derping in militia gear getting 150 WP in a match shouldn't get you far. FW should be for the proto pubstompers while IB is for the newbies trying to level up. and btw... for people like me.. isk is generally meaningless.
Gigatron Prime The.Primes 267	Posted - 2013.07.16 20:37:00 - [57] - Quote MlDDLE MANGEMENT wrote: OH yay lets add more role play locking in a MERCENARY game Why in the hell cant I i fight for Amarr with Minmatar gear. In the end the Factions are paying me ISK the whole point of being a dust merc is one of being apathetic to the cares of the capsuleers and the factions. Just because something is so in EVE DOES NOT make it so in Dust. At the end of the day i should be able to fight for who i want and hell be able to also sabotage who i want. Obviously there has to a risk/reward mechanism involved so i cant just blatantly pick the opposing side and throw every match im in(though im told thats perfectly acceptable in New Eden). Regardless we are mercenaries dont force the concept of being a foot soldier in an Race's army on the whole iteration. It's perfectly acceptable to make that subcomponent of the game by incentivizing toward loyalty but not by mandating it. Then don't play FW.
Jason Punk DUST University Ivy League 156	Posted - 2013.07.16 21:26:00 - [58] - Quote Razor Signal wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: I like the idea of standings ( as opposed to LP). Build up standings, unlock things in faction specific shops depending on your standing. As for, "forces the player to fight for a faction they may not like to get the gear they want".... Well, if the factions have different rewards, that'll be an issue regardless. I wouldn't expect high standing with the Amarr to reward you with Caldari headscarves anyhow. I'm down for anything that gives us more to grind for. Without more options, the burn out factor is going to be relatively high. The point is to consume items? Wouldn't creating more content to consume be a good thing, especially content you have to grind/fight for? How about essentially releasing some of the new gear (bubble shields, disruptors, webifiers, salvage modules, EMP, or Cloaking, etc.) But seperating them amonst several NPC Corporations loyal to each faction. You create a grind for these new equipment pieces as well as opening the door for their initial use in PC matches by the corps that take have the better standings and take the right gambles. Of course, while this would be a ton of fun to watch, don't break the game up too much, eh? (ie. make sure their are counter equipment pieces...or basic gear available the marketplace). But by all means, I'd have a blast with this. Two further things to note however: 1. This would be best implemented with a basic first iteration of merc to merc player trading. 2. The current mechanics would have to be broken and given more depth and diversity so as to better separate the larger groups (multiple corp squads) from individuals (solo's and new players). I might suggest even bringing a rough concept from Eve of "mission" levels where you have greater rewards, the larger players counts you play with (needs to be very obvious rewards...loot, isk, LP, etc.). But empower the players with options. 4v4 or 6v6 easy for small squads or individuals to get some standard LP yet low rewards in but presenting a greater experience for the higher level players with 16v16 or 24v24 match with greater rewards and good loot for squad players and organized teams. ...Both the individual and the corp can work towards LP rewards and greater goals.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 653	Posted - 2013.07.16 21:37:00 - [59] - Quote Marston VC wrote: The Robot Devil wrote: Allow pilots to pool ISK EVE side and mercs to pool ISK DUST side. If some pilots wanted to take a system easier they would add to the mercenary pool for the system they want control of and the pool of ISK would be divided up to battles. Mercs in DUST can see the ISK pool and decide to take the contract. Mercs on the ground could pool ISK for pilots to plex EVE side. The pilots would see the pool of ISK and start the site and generate a battle. The pilots in system would receive a message telling the planet and district being fought over and request Orbital Support for ISK rewards. Send pilots a kill mail and ISK payment from the pooled mercenary ISK. Allow players to pool ISK to encourage FW play. It would also open a small window for ISK transfers both ways and add more interactions between the games. We all talk about emergent game play and nothing creates content like money. But that's just like giving money for money. Not to mention i don't see the reason either side would "pool" isk to the other. Theres no incentive to that. Its not like either side gets anything out of pooling isk..... so why bother doing it when you should still be able to play in the match to begin with? My team and I could put 2 M each up for an incentive for eve pilots to run a site. The pilots would get LP from EVE and ISK from DUST. The pilots in EVE would do the same type of thing if they want more control over a system. The payout from the battle would be better because the FW pilots would be adding ISK to the payout.
Marston VC SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 592	Posted - 2013.07.17 00:42:00 - [60] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Marston VC wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: No matter what the final system is... faction warfare should have unique rewards that you cannot get from playing in IB/PC in order to make the game mode worth playing. I just hope you guys move away from the carebear IB system and make rewards based on performance... not time spent like it is in IB. Instant battles? Cuz i mean..... you do get rewarded for playing better. If i do really well ill get 400k isk instead of 250k like normal. But i see what your saying. Don't worry, im pretty sure CCP will incentivize the hell out of FW. I just mean, they need to work the system so that people aren't afk farming faction standings. and that running around derping in militia gear getting 150 WP in a match shouldn't get you far. FW should be for the proto pubstompers while IB is for the newbies trying to level up. and btw... for people like me.. isk is generally meaningless. I viewed it as the other way around. The whole reason i proposed "set suit fittings" was to "even the playing field" for the noobs. You know..... throwing them a bone or two. I mean, FW should be a place for everyone in my opinion, Null sec PVP is where the "pros" go, not FW. And if your rocking a suit that costs 1M per fit I don't care how rich you are, you can only afford to lose those so often. Your right..... isk doesn't mean much at all right now (especially between veteran players like you or I) However, that's only because of the absence of something to spend all that money on. Theres nothing for us to buy that would actually dig into our wallets. Once CCP fills in that gap your Isk will mean a bit more to you.



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