Have to say that using a mass driver at range takes a fair bit of skill as you have to range and evelate your weapon to start to get hits where as you just point and shoot with an AR. Short range MD's are easier to use but your not really doing much damage at all to shield tankers who is almost everyone at the moment. You have to use a flux, MD or grenade MD to get one on one kills with caldari's for example.

MD's are situational also so you have to think tactically regarding cover and high ground but that puts you at risk from snipers etc. So I would say that the MD is definitely a different play stile than using AR's. I would suggest you try using them to see how on some maps against spread out opponents how hard it is to use effectively.

They are also much much weaker than the were in last build imo.

Ah, some sense. Perhaps cutting splash on all weapons is an overreaction. Grenade splash makes large parts of the map unspawnable, flaylock damage and reload speed are possibly affecting my judgement. I would be very happy if grens and flaylocks were reeled in to allow other playstyles to flourish.

Everyone before him said pretty much the same thing, but since he is in your corp he has sense?

Splash is fine on all weapons. MD is probably the most balanced and "skilled" weapon in the game now. I wreck at mid range, if I use cover to my advantage. Long range takes some serious skill. And anything with more splash than an EXO (which is all proto and assualt varients,) will usually kill the user before the target in CQC.

The flay needs a RoF decrease to cut down on its "LOL1200DPS" effect.

Contact grenades are BS, and the proto grenades are a bit heavy on splash, but CCP has ignored that for a while now.

Allow a scrub to clean up your scrambled mind a little

Though you are so wrong in so many ways, there isn't really the time, example is the best enlightenment, so:

1) I don't use an AR

ok, so now you are on the backfoot, how about another example:

2) imagine splash damage taken to the extreme, then everytime we press fire, everybody dies. Understand?

This, my brother is why people feel that a large splash=no skill
You see now?

Oh my god it's attack of the blueberries who want everything nerfed. Would you prefer that I have to hit you in the face with a mass driver to hurt you? If you cant dodge a slow grenade that you literally see coming at you, then you dont know what cover is and im not sure why you play this game.

Let me tell you how to not get killed by a mass driver, you shield tanked ******: get in hard cover and dont stop moving in a circle like im shooting an AR at you. Also, it's six shots, at roughly 1 shot per second and you cant dodge a single shot? Your controller is obviously defective.

I play with some of the best people in the game and they have never complained about the mass driver because theyre good. If you want CCP to cater to the lowest common denominator, please say that right here:


"I _______, am an awful player and my controller is broken; please nerf splash damage to 1m on everything except my core locus grenades because I use those."

Spawn, bang, bounce.

These high splash radii, cannot breed the longevity CCP crave. Its just annoying for longer term players, perhaps because splash puts more down to chance...

Reign it in ccp? Im fed up with bouncing around on a sea of random boom.

Get in hard cover? Haha! You mean a logi lav? Anyway, You muppet, read the thread, grenades and flaylocks are the main problem, general consensus

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=92678

buster that doesnt mean **** and you know it

You muppet, read your own title and OP of your own self serving thread, and tell me why anyone looking to do anything other than to troll it would apply the dignity of thoughtfully trying to speak to you in the first place, oh ye of grand judgement, and decider of skill.

Some other guy said it best, "stupid thread is stupid"

Argument invalidated. Flaylocks are hard as f-¦ck to use effectively.

Oh, and yeah, the rest of your arguments is basically "I can get kills with this weapon" and "its not an AR nerf it!"

No they didnt all say that but someone had to take the cheap shot re corp and u stepped up.

Anyway who do you think u are, mr 'Splash is fine on all weapons'
If you say splash is fine it must be, oh, wait, you say it is too much on a grenade, like i was saying.. ok.

I also get lots of kills with scrambler rifle. I also get kills with SMG (which is easier and more effective than the AR in close quarters because you can easily hip fire spray and kill. Are those a problem too? Am I unskilled and low level because my ammo doesn't explode on impact?

First line of defense on every thread where the flaylock is under fire is to immediately throw out the "flaylocks take skill, ARs don't" card. If duvolles and TARs are the issue why don't we just take them out of the game? I'm certainly fine with that. Or AR users could just give back the same "learn some tactics and HTFU" rebuttal.

I also get lots of kills with scrambler rifle. I also get kills with SMG (which is easier and more effective than the AR in close quarters because you can easily hip fire spray and kill. Are those a problem too? Am I unskilled and low level because my ammo doesn't explode on impact?

First line of defense on every thread where the flaylock is under fire is to immediately throw out the "flaylocks take skill, ARs don't" card. If duvolles and TARs are the issue why don't we just take them out of the game? I'm certainly fine with that. Or AR users could just give back the same "learn some tactics and HTFU" rebuttal.

Applying damage requires skill, applying damage through a radius does not. There is a difference between getting a bullseye with a dart and getting a bullseye with a shotgun.

Been here since closed beta. I've seen some really OP things. (Dumbfire swarms, indestructible heavies, ect.)

Also played several PC matches a day for over a month. I was one of the only people using a mass driver in PC at the time. Been using a MD since early chromosome, this is the most balanced it has ever been.

I visit these forums near daily. I know who is bad, decent, and good for the most part, and the general concensus from decent-good players is that the MD is one of the most balanced weapons in the game.

Go play PC. Then laugh at the contact grenades and flaylocks as they destroy you. Splash isn't the issues. Its good players abusing broken mechanics.

(^^ Don't take the above as a dig at you. I've never seen you play. I'm just speaking for what I've seen from the more established members of the community.)

Maybe I could add my opinion on "what skill is" or agree with everyone who thinks the same as me like you have. This just sounds like a bunch of backpeddaling and rewording on your part just to have an argument over a rant thread.

I quoted your OP. All there is to this thread is right there.

Maybe I could add my opinion on "what skill is" or agree with everyone who thinks the same as me like you have. This just sounds like a bunch of backpeddaling and rewording on your part just to have an argument over a rant thread.

I quoted your OP. All there is to this thread is right there.

Oh man, I feel like this has been the only topic of discussion on the forums since 1.2 dropped. I guess I'll continue to partake, but I'll try a little harder this time, because I think mostly people are talking past each other and not explaining their side of the argument thoroughly enough.

To whoever asked, the AR always comes up in these threads because there has been a recent rash of AR elitism since the splash damage fix. I'm not accusing OP of committing this, but I have seen AR users claiming their gun takes the most skill to use and 'gun game' (a phrase that keeps cropping up in these discussions), while talking down on the Mass Driver and other explosives, calling them skill-less noob tubes.

I want to spell out for these people the type of skill it takes to effectively use the Mass Driver. I think that it's a weapon that you can learn the basic uses of in a day or two, but to perform the more complicated maneuvers require months and months of practice. I've used it now for over 5 months, and I certainly would not call myself a master.

Here are a few situations you run into using the Mass Driver, and the skill to be successful at them. When I use the term 'hit' I refer to a splash hit, because as anyone who uses the Mass Driver will testify, direct hits happen rarely and cannot be counted on consistently. That said:

Hitting an enemy that is stationary or moving 5-20 meters away, you are on either level ground or you have the high ground:
Takes relatively little skill, players who just picked up the MD should have no trouble.

Hitting an enemy that is stationary at 30+ meters away:
Takes a moderate amount of skill/practice, will take new users multiple shots to correctly calibrate the distance

Hitting an enemy that is moving at 30+ meters away:
Take a large amount of skill to do, even the experienced tend to misjudge

Hitting an enemy that is moving at 30+ meters away, repeatedly, enough times to kill them from full health to zero:
Nearly impossible. I am always extremely proud of myself when I can pull this off.

Notice that I didn't mention situations where the target is above you. I didn't mention it because it's mostly a wash, and the MD user will be forced to either disengage completely or look for another avenue of attack.

Sorry this was a little long winded. TL;DR: Think what it actually takes to use a Mass Driver before calling it a 'noob tube'.

Uh, last I checked we have airships and Orbital Bombardments. What game are you playing?

Look, people who are excellent FPS marksmen, and do well with the twitch gameplay should absolutely have a big advantage (and they do), but there should be viable roles for everyone. For example, the MD should excel in area denial and be capable of shelling out low-to-moderate damage over an area, and be totally screwed in a head on 1v1 against someone with skill using an assault/scrambler rifle. That's balanced--the people with skill still have the advantage, and people who are less skilled can still have a role in a squad where they're exerting pressure on an area in the battlefield. Dust needs MORE tactical gameplay, weapons need ROLES beyond just shooting people in the face. Dust is MORE than just an FPS.

I agree exactly with what you are saying. Low to moderate damage is exactly what the splash weapons should deal, but some of them (core flaylock) are doing more than that and can go 1v1 with even a heavy with an HMG.

Spawn, bang, bounce.

These high splash radii, cannot breed the longevity CCP crave. Its just annoying for longer term players, perhaps because splash puts more down to chance...

Reign it in ccp? Im fed up with bouncing around on a sea of random boom.

Spawn, bang, bounce.

These high splash radii, cannot breed the longevity CCP crave. Its just annoying for longer term players, perhaps because splash puts more down to chance...

Reign it in ccp? Im fed up with bouncing around on a sea of random boom.