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Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
69
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Posted - 2013.07.10 17:28:00 -
[61] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:No matter what they do to it a skilled player will get you with it repeatedly an that's what they don't understand,. Make it a six shooter- rock 2 Increase CPU - sidearm operation optimization an core skills Reduce splash damage- flux nade shoot the chest 3x - back em into a corner nades shoot the wall same as Md Rof change -shoot switch to other faylock shoot again run behind corner reload both
The weapons here an if people could aim good with a shotty that would be the problem, it's never gonna end with splash damage weapons cuz their unpridictable an anyone can use them so evyone will same as AR . Don't see everybody getting 25 kill s with knives because it's hard, there for people don't complain but if you got knifed 100 times a day everyone would scream op cuz that's how everyone is, if it's popular it's op
Flaylock pistols need huge nerfs! |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
187
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Posted - 2013.07.10 17:41:00 -
[62] - Quote
i hope so. they've got to drop the splash damage. it's tougher than a prototype massdriver.
bare minimum make sure the person using an explosion radius weapon is going to take damage from it. how many *****-lock pistols have you seen firing straight down at the ground in front of you? how many have you seen 50 feet overhead using a pistol as a crowd control device?
make people use the pistol like a pistol, or make people kill themselves with the splash. |
Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
69
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Posted - 2013.07.10 17:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
low genius wrote:i hope so. they've got to drop the splash damage. it's tougher than a prototype massdriver.
bare minimum make sure the person using an explosion radius weapon is going to take damage from it. how many *****-lock pistols have you seen firing straight down at the ground in front of you? how many have you seen 50 feet overhead using a pistol as a crowd control device?
make people use the pistol like a pistol, or make people kill themselves with the splash.
I am against Sidearms being able to be better than Primaries. |
low genius
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
187
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Posted - 2013.07.10 17:42:00 -
[64] - Quote
D legendary hero wrote:RA Drahcir wrote:it is going to be nerfed...sorry, CCP accidentally made it too OP when they introduced it as a new [overly] good weapon they introduced it prenerfed it actually needs a radius buff, but the fire rate, and reload speed need a nerf
a radius buff? that's foolish. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
702
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Posted - 2013.07.10 17:47:00 -
[65] - Quote
Flaylock requires 2.31M SP to be good, everything else just slightly supplements it but does not increase its effectiveness. And even then I made a new account and was able to get a ADV flaylock with only 600K SP and it destroys.
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Stile451
Red STar. EoN.
135
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Posted - 2013.07.10 17:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
The standard and advanced flaylocks need a radius buff, the core does not.
Reducing the splash damage is the most glaring issue with this weapon and should be the only thing touched so we can see how things stand. After that look at the rate of fire(burst damage). Changing too many things at once kills weapons. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization
29
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Posted - 2013.07.10 18:01:00 -
[67] - Quote
just make it a primary weapon so players cant carry 2 into battle.
and reduce its rof.. |
Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
69
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Posted - 2013.07.10 18:04:00 -
[68] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:just make it a primary weapon so players cant carry 2 into battle.
and reduce its rof..
Point is it needs tweaking. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization
29
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Posted - 2013.07.10 18:07:00 -
[69] - Quote
that is tweaking... |
R'adeh Hunt
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
204
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Posted - 2013.07.10 18:14:00 -
[70] - Quote
In terms of performance it's actually not far off from other proto sidearms...it's just that more ppl bothered specc'ing into it to proto level compared to guns like the scrambler pistol.
The key tweak should be a fitting stats, they're a bit light compared to other proto sidearms. |
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nukel head
Knights of No Republic
50
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Posted - 2013.07.10 18:51:00 -
[71] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:nukel head wrote:OZAROW wrote:Stile451 wrote:I did some experiments last night and found the actual rate of fire(or at least close to it) at 105 RPM(for comparison using the same methodology used below the mass driver is 58 RPM - which is less than 4% off of what the documentation says which is 60 RPM). Coincidentally the mass driver and the flaylock both take the same amount of time to fire all of their ammo(27s including reloads which makes this next part a better comparison). Damage for the entire amount is similar for direct damage at the prototype level but far off for splash damage. 266.2 direct and 127.6 splash on Freedom Mass driver, 239.8 direct and 214.5 splash on the Core Flaylock. That is 4791.6 potential direct damage(266.2*18 shots) and 2296.8 splash damage for the Freedom Mass Driver(47.9% splash compared to direct damage). That is 5035.8 potential direct damage(239.8*21 shots) and 4504.5 splash damage for the Core Flaylock Pistol(89.45% splash compared to direct damage). Direct damage is fine(it takes some skill to get direct hits) but the splash damage is severely disproportionate to other weapons with splash damage. TL;DRFor proper weapon balancing direct damage should remain the same but the splash damage should be reduced by half. The splash radius is fine on the Core Flaylock but it does need to be adjusted on the standard and advanced models(I would suggest increasing them to 1.75m and 1.85m). RPM MethodologyMethodology: take fully stocked standard flaylock, create macro on mouse to trigger m1 every 60ms, hold fire until rounds finished, time with stopwatch. Average time to finish rounds is 27s(makes it easier - actual times were 27.78, 27.56 ,26.83, 26.95, 26.70 ,26.92 - actual average of 27.1s or 27.061s removing the upper and lower outliers). 21 rounds 2.5s reload 3 rounds per clip 21 / 3 = 7 clips 7 - 1 = 6 reloads(no reload after last clip) 6 * 2.5 = 15s reload time 27 - 15 = 12s to fire all 21 rounds 21 / 12 = 1.75 rounds per second 1.75 * 60s = 105 RPM END RPM MethodologyFlaylock Pistol Operation - 621,920 - required - spec into Flaylock Pistol Proficiency - 1,554,920 - very useful - spec into Flaylock Pistol Rapid Reload - 1,865,920 - mildly useful(2.5s reload down to 1.88s reload) - do not spec as you can kill most suits in 1 clip) Flaylock Pistol Fitting Optimization - 1,865,920 - nearly worthless - do not spec unless you need a single PG on the core flaylock(no effect on other variants) Flaylock Pistol Ammo Capacity - 932,920 - mildly useful - an extra 5 shots - do not spec, advanced nanohives are a better investment than this skill While you are technically correct you are realistically wrong. Just over 2 million to fully utilize this weapon, just under another 5 for nearly useless bonuses(they are placeholder bonuses and may eventually become useful but as it is nobody will have fully specced into flaylock pistols). Hey genius dumb dumb, now that you proved how smart you are that post was for the knob that said no weapon in the game takes a total 7 million sp to skill into fully that was the proof hence the skill chart not that anyone would fully but that was the point.! Tha fact that you had to get all math god mod means you can't read and spend your time trying to prove people wrong all the time an probably live alone with 8 cats. I never said to skill it all the way , I said to do so costs over 7 million an I think everyone knows that shyts a waste of time so tell me mister smarty pants do you feel like a genius all proud still ? Or like a moron that didn't read?! I think he proved himself pretty smart and shot your BS argument full of holes. Saying the gun isn't out of balance because it takes a lot of SP is not a valid argument. If everyone knows it's a waste of time why did you try to use it in your argument to begin with? He did his homework and demonstrated how the flaylock does not require accuracy to very quickly dish out crazy damage. Everyone knew it had crazy damage when it came out 2 months ago where we're you? I didn't change hell read the damage all the numbers are in the specs, you think cuz a guy gets a stop watch an tests it a home pretending he works for ccp then hunts a thread to prove himself right when THE NUMBERS ARE ALREADY POSTED NEXT TO THE GUN , LIKE HE'S THE FIRST ONE TO READ IT! An he did his home work an I gotta respect that man get real adapt or die! Everybody got a AR or cal logi or contact nades or a faylock so if your smart enough to get a good weapon that's easy to kill with people do that's how it is! So don't get all prove this dude wrong crap on me I said 7 million fully not that anyone would I didn't ! But I said it cuz its a time game eventually everyone s hear will be at five just out of boredom yrs fro Now! Man get real wasting my time on some children post!
Nobody asked you to waste your time here. And you're exactly right, the numbers posted on the gun also show how powerful it is. But I also agree that the Duvolles, TARs, logis, and fused grenades could also use a second look. At the end of the day we all agree that we don't want weapons that people can just spam explosives or spray fire to get kills.
I would think that if we increase the damage output of weapons as they increase level we increase the recoil, slow the fire rate, etc to make it a weapon that you truly do have to SKILL into. They're better, but not easier. |
OZAROW
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
131
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Posted - 2013.07.10 23:19:00 -
[72] - Quote
It's a hand held rocket launcher, that's been out for two months the design an idea of the weapon ment trouble from the get go , I'm just surprised it took people this long to all through dust to have them. They ll get nerfed but I don't think it ll be as significant as everyone will like, basically because it'll destroy the idea of the weapon as a whole an be entirely useless. It's a rocket launcher not a grenade launcher like the mass driver = more damage It's a pistol not a over the shoulder rocket launcher = high rof Its the design of the weapon itself which will be hard to nerf plus keep it realistic to its futuristic design. People can cry nerf all they want but to keep it true to what it is there's not much u can do to it other than remove it from the game without destroying what it really is. Only other suggestion is make it a fluxlock. That will cut the death toll . Yet still keep it effective people will complain either way that's the nature of this game |
Stile451
Red STar. EoN.
135
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Posted - 2013.07.10 23:51:00 -
[73] - Quote
You are absolutely correct that it's balanced with other sidearms in regards to direct damage. It is not balanced with any weapon that has splash damage. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
233
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Posted - 2013.07.11 00:20:00 -
[74] - Quote
Stile451 wrote:You are absolutely correct that it's balanced with other sidearms in regards to direct damage. It is not balanced with any weapon that has splash damage. Indeed.
Reduce the faglocks to 20 points lower then the MD, and also wimpify the radius.
It's a one inch rocket for Pete's sake!
It shouldn't have as much splash as a big grenade from a grenade launcher! |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
1096
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Posted - 2013.07.11 00:30:00 -
[75] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Stile451 wrote:You are absolutely correct that it's balanced with other sidearms in regards to direct damage. It is not balanced with any weapon that has splash damage. Indeed. Reduce the faglocks to 20 points lower then the MD, and also wimpify the radius. It's a one inch rocket for Pete's sake! It shouldn't have as much splash as a big grenade from a grenade launcher!
Yeah, but it's the MD splash that's too small, not the other way around. |
OZAROW
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
133
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Posted - 2013.07.11 01:33:00 -
[76] - Quote
Faylock operation increases the splash radius maybe it should have been something else entirely as a passive upgrade with operation level 5? Point is they gave it the same benifits as any other weapon, increased splash radius per level, increased damage, reload, optimization an clip size, plus if ur running minmatar assault for 5% sidearm ammo an have your faylock skilled high an put a side arm damage mod or two on your fit, even if they nerf the crap out of it a smart player is still gonna be able to turn it back into what it is now! Say you knock it to a 90 hp damage an us a cal logi with 4 complex side arm damage mods an bust three shots an toss a flux nade your still gonna knock a mercs socks off , people will find a way , just like AR users using modified controllers on a tac rifle to make it a automatic. So people can scream nerf all they want it's not going to change anything significantly unless they make it a flux lock or take it out of the game completely . I ll be honest I have one done up to the level 3 all around past proto because it's a weapon that will fit on a scout suit ( scout can barely fit anything because of extremely low CPU pg that needs a major buff before this faylock but lack of people running scout to even complain about that issue will mean its last on the friggen to do list). An I hate that a guy can destroy me with one shot on my total 270 hp But as a scout were used to dying, everyone else in the game isn't because they can walk around with a cal logi with 900 hp an think their untouchable so when they die with a 300000 proto suit in a pub match I say serves em right! People never exploit or complain about the things their running when their getting 28 /0 murdering noobs with a unstoppable set up so I have no sympathy for them crying! If I can get face to face with a faylock user an kill them in a meters distance an you cant take them out with your faylock or AR then honestly somebody's doing something horribly frigging wrong! Maybe you or whomever found out that theirs something in this game that makes you play more cautious now an the community doesn't like it because now that cal logi setup is on the kill list just like everyone else! So once again fix the suits, fix the heavy , fix the scout, take god mode away from a cal logi then fix the gun! That way their will be balance , until they do the real issues first some jerk is just gonna take a nerfed faylock damage mod the crap out of it with proficiency five as well an the guns ginna be the exact same! Then what are you gonna say ? Nerf it again? People need to see the big picture before they start crying, fix the broken crap! Everyone knows call logi is god mode an the only reason their not everywhere yet is the sp sink but don't think people aren't working on those suits as we speak. Just wait two more months that's gonna be a HUGE FRIGGEN PROBLEM! Worse than faylocks if it isn't already. So let's get to brass taps, that gun can't be fixed the way you want it to, all this forum bashing is a waste of time you wait, everyone's gonna make it a big deal to divert from the new cal logi movement then one day your honna wake up turn on dust an the whole war barge gonna be cal logi proto, everyone an their grandma ginna have one then nobody gonna say crap about faylocks an it's gonna be all your own faults for not anticipating the NEW THREAT! Man everybody need to wake up! |
OZAROW
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
134
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Posted - 2013.07.11 01:57:00 -
[77] - Quote
Forgot to mention, but I'm using knives to kill these fools up close, an if I do equip a faylock it's for retreat purposes, knives are my bread an butter! |
KA24DERT
Not Guilty EoN.
77
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Posted - 2013.07.11 03:06:00 -
[78] - Quote
The TTK on this thing is way too low. It could use a nerf on its rate of fire. I'm hesitant to ask for more nerfs than that as the weapon does take some skill to use. |
OZAROW
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
136
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Posted - 2013.07.11 03:18:00 -
[79] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:The TTK on this thing is way too low. It could use a nerf on its rate of fire. I'm hesitant to ask for more nerfs than that as the weapon does take some skill to use. It's either gonna be inanely useless or a unnoticeable change either way nobody will be happy with the results I mean it's a friggen rocket launcher what do people expect to happen there basically asking for a different weapon |
Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
73
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Posted - 2013.07.11 05:21:00 -
[80] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:KA24DERT wrote:The TTK on this thing is way too low. It could use a nerf on its rate of fire. I'm hesitant to ask for more nerfs than that as the weapon does take some skill to use. It's either gonna be inanely useless or a unnoticeable change either way nobody will be happy with the results I mean it's a friggen rocket launcher what do people expect to happen there basically asking for a different weapon
No pistol should be a damn grenade launcher if we gotta putup with such a joke of a weapon break the hell out of it. |
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OZAROW
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
136
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Posted - 2013.07.11 05:24:00 -
[81] - Quote
Xero The Mishima wrote:OZAROW wrote:KA24DERT wrote:The TTK on this thing is way too low. It could use a nerf on its rate of fire. I'm hesitant to ask for more nerfs than that as the weapon does take some skill to use. It's either gonna be inanely useless or a unnoticeable change either way nobody will be happy with the results I mean it's a friggen rocket launcher what do people expect to happen there basically asking for a different weapon No pistol should be a damn grenade launcher if we gotta putup with such a joke of a weapon break the hell out of it. Well they made one so whatcha gonna do |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
139
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Posted - 2013.07.11 06:14:00 -
[82] - Quote
Complain on the forums until it gets balanced? |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
466
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Posted - 2013.07.11 06:57:00 -
[83] - Quote
I want a boundless fluxlock hmg with 25% range increase. |
Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
84
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Posted - 2013.07.12 23:35:00 -
[84] - Quote
Stile451 wrote:Complain on the forums until it gets balanced?
Thas what Imma do! |
Bulldozza Smash
Ultramarine Corp
0
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Posted - 2013.07.13 08:10:00 -
[85] - Quote
Revelations 514 wrote:Honestly,
AR, (autos), need more bullet disparity or recoil or both.
Core Flaylocks definitely need splash dmg nerf and RoF decrease.
Lets all be honest with ourselves here. I do know it's not just some people are really, really good and just happen to use Core Flaylocks and Duvolle's, and no one that is really good uses anything else. Helluva coincidence don't ya think?
Show me anyone, regardless of map, who consistently tops Duvolle or Flaylock users with any other weapon of choice. (And don't come with "well one time this sniper", because that isn't consistent). Snipers are fine honestly, they earn their kills. Scrambler Rifles are a pain, but it's harder to hit with due to not being able to just spray and therefore they are beatable.
Id say do the above, address the LAV, and yellow logi, address red line exploiters and we will have a pretty good balance to start with and make finer tweaks from that point out.
Agreed the ARs have become way to easy to use atleast in the last build you had to tap the trigger now you just hold... i loved the hold release hold when firing with the old ARs firstly it took disipline to use which meant less deaths for me due to scrubs sprayed like mad and secondly was more of a challange.
As for the flaylocks, CCP has been doing a great job of balancing everything until this flaylock came out its like the all answer weapon which it shouldn't be if anything the AR should be the all answer weapon due to its well rounded. hope CCP seriously reconciders the flaylocks stats.
The LAVs need to be looked at, i think the answer to most of the LAV problems can be solved with more flux weapons eg flux AVs or flux swarms... oh if they would hurry up with those flux proxys would be nice.
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Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2013.07.13 10:04:00 -
[86] - Quote
Bulldozza Smash wrote:Revelations 514 wrote:Honestly,
AR, (autos), need more bullet disparity or recoil or both.
Core Flaylocks definitely need splash dmg nerf and RoF decrease.
Lets all be honest with ourselves here. I do know it's not just some people are really, really good and just happen to use Core Flaylocks and Duvolle's, and no one that is really good uses anything else. Helluva coincidence don't ya think?
Show me anyone, regardless of map, who consistently tops Duvolle or Flaylock users with any other weapon of choice. (And don't come with "well one time this sniper", because that isn't consistent). Snipers are fine honestly, they earn their kills. Scrambler Rifles are a pain, but it's harder to hit with due to not being able to just spray and therefore they are beatable.
Id say do the above, address the LAV, and yellow logi, address red line exploiters and we will have a pretty good balance to start with and make finer tweaks from that point out. Agreed the ARs have become way to easy to use atleast in the last build you had to tap the trigger now you just hold... i loved the hold release hold when firing with the old ARs firstly it took disipline to use which meant less deaths for me due to scrubs sprayed like mad and secondly was more of a challange. As for the flaylocks, CCP has been doing a great job of balancing everything until this flaylock came out its like the all answer weapon which it shouldn't be if anything the AR should be the all answer weapon due to its well rounded. hope CCP seriously reconciders the flaylocks stats. The LAVs need to be looked at, i think the answer to most of the LAV problems can be solved with more flux weapons eg flux AVs or flux swarms... oh if they would hurry up with those flux proxys would be nice.
CCP where is the response?!?!?! These Flaylocks are gonna kill the game if they aren't fixed soon. We did matches last night with Hellstorm and all of them for the most part had dual flaylocks. Only less than a handful don't use them.
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Levithunder
Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
0
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Posted - 2013.07.13 10:23:00 -
[87] - Quote
I run with a laser and a smg and I admit the subject of nerfing/keeping flaylocks the same. is tricky I think RoF reduction sounds somewhat fair I mean the mass driver Best RoF is 75rpm but flaylocks were designed as an emergency sidearm just like smg idk it's a tricky one I would say there are more ergent things that need to be fixed/added like more game modes , expanding PC , and getting all racial gear in. |
Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:03:00 -
[88] - Quote
Core Flaylocks are getting way out of hand CCP you need to get on it guys. |
Text Grant
Planetary Response Organization
29
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:10:00 -
[89] - Quote
Just make it a light weapon |
Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
85
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Posted - 2013.07.13 11:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
Sent in another ticket to get CCP's attention. This needs to be fixed NOW this game won't last 2-3 months with the way this gun is getting out there. |
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