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Stile451
Red STar. EoN.
135
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Posted - 2013.07.10 15:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
I did some experiments last night and found the actual rate of fire(or at least close to it) at 105 RPM(for comparison using the same methodology used below the mass driver is 58 RPM - which is less than 4% off of what the documentation says which is 60 RPM).
Coincidentally the mass driver and the flaylock both take the same amount of time to fire all of their ammo(27s including reloads which makes this next part a better comparison). Damage for the entire amount is similar for direct damage at the prototype level but far off for splash damage. 266.2 direct and 127.6 splash on Freedom Mass driver, 239.8 direct and 214.5 splash on the Core Flaylock.
That is 4791.6 potential direct damage(266.2*18 shots) and 2296.8 splash damage for the Freedom Mass Driver(47.9% splash compared to direct damage).
That is 5035.8 potential direct damage(239.8*21 shots) and 4504.5 splash damage for the Core Flaylock Pistol(89.45% splash compared to direct damage).
Direct damage is fine(it takes some skill to get direct hits) but the splash damage is severely disproportionate to other weapons with splash damage.
TL;DR
For proper weapon balancing direct damage should remain the same but the splash damage should be reduced by half. The splash radius is fine on the Core Flaylock but it does need to be adjusted on the standard and advanced models(I would suggest increasing them to 1.75m and 1.85m).
RPM Methodology Methodology: take fully stocked standard flaylock, create macro on mouse to trigger m1 every 60ms, hold fire until rounds finished, time with stopwatch.
Average time to finish rounds is 27s(makes it easier - actual times were 27.78, 27.56 ,26.83, 26.95, 26.70 ,26.92 - actual average of 27.1s or 27.061s removing the upper and lower outliers).
21 rounds 2.5s reload 3 rounds per clip 21 / 3 = 7 clips 7 - 1 = 6 reloads(no reload after last clip) 6 * 2.5 = 15s reload time
27 - 15 = 12s to fire all 21 rounds
21 / 12 = 1.75 rounds per second 1.75 * 60s = 105 RPM END RPM Methodology
Flaylock Pistol Operation - 621,920 - required - spec into Flaylock Pistol Proficiency - 1,554,920 - very useful - spec into Flaylock Pistol Rapid Reload - 1,865,920 - mildly useful(2.5s reload down to 1.88s reload) - do not spec as you can kill most suits in 1 clip) Flaylock Pistol Fitting Optimization - 1,865,920 - nearly worthless - do not spec unless you need a single PG on the core flaylock(no effect on other variants) Flaylock Pistol Ammo Capacity - 932,920 - mildly useful - an extra 5 shots - do not spec, advanced nanohives are a better investment than this skill
While you are technically correct you are realistically wrong. Just over 2 million to fully utilize this weapon, just under another 5 for nearly useless bonuses(they are placeholder bonuses and may eventually become useful but as it is nobody will have fully specced into flaylock pistols). |
Stile451
Red STar. EoN.
135
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 15:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
OZAROW wrote:[Hey genius dumb dumb, now that you proved how smart you are that post was for the knob that said no weapon in the game takes a total 7 million sp to skill into fully that was the proof hence the skill chart not that anyone would fully but that was the point.! Tha fact that you had to get all math god mod means you can't read and spend your time trying to prove people wrong all the time an probably live alone with 8 cats. I never said to skill it all the way , I said to do so costs over 7 million an I think everyone knows that shyts a waste of time so tell me mister smarty pants do you feel like a genius all proud still ? Or like a moron that didn't read?!
OZAROW wrote:2. It's useless till level 5 = almost 7mill sp
Perhaps I misread. The reality is it's useless until level 5 operation, which is almost 1 million SP. |
Stile451
Red STar. EoN.
135
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Posted - 2013.07.10 16:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
It will still be an excellent sidearm after splash damage reduction, it just won't be a light weapon replacement anymore(actually it probably would still be viable to run dual flaylocks to great effect).
Shotguns are broken right now. |
Stile451
Red STar. EoN.
135
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 17:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
The standard and advanced flaylocks need a radius buff, the core does not.
Reducing the splash damage is the most glaring issue with this weapon and should be the only thing touched so we can see how things stand. After that look at the rate of fire(burst damage). Changing too many things at once kills weapons. |
Stile451
Red STar. EoN.
135
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 23:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
You are absolutely correct that it's balanced with other sidearms in regards to direct damage. It is not balanced with any weapon that has splash damage. |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
139
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Posted - 2013.07.11 06:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Complain on the forums until it gets balanced? |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
139
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 15:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Keep the splash as that is literally what separates it form the other pistols, otherwise it just becomes another pistol, but have the range cut down to 20 and have a long load time for the weapon, since we are indeed loading self propelled micro missile ammunition here. If need be cut the direct damage down by 30% and raise splash damage by a smaller amount, making it the crowd control weapon it is. The aspect of a larger radius that can hurt the player easier will give it a minimum and maximum range.
The way I see it, a three shot volley should be able to destroy all your armor if you get flanked by it. So a heavy with his shields blown should be able to be killed within that quick 3 shot volley (again when his shields are blown). This thing should suck against shields entirely but able to utilize splash to keep out of direct sight until shields are gone, thus utilizing splash as more of a skill mechanic rather than a lazy mechanic.
I'm sure I'm going to get flack for this, and I also want to remind people that sidearms should not equal suckage. But it should have a niche killing role, and in this case ***close range unshielded opponets***. That is the role that I see for this weapon, if you lack shields this thing should drop you in seconds if you are within 20 of your opponent So you are proposing to increase the splash damage, which is the only thing wrong with the weapon right now(except perhaps the rate of fire).
They flaylock is not a crowd control weapon - a crowd control weapon leaves people time to disperse and is not meant to quiclky kill.
Most people use the flaylock within 20m anyway, changing reload time won't make a difference, direct damage is in line with other sidearms but splash damage is not(you can tell when the enemy is shooting at the ground, they almost always are). |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
139
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 04:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:I said to reduce direct damage by 30% to make it below the other firearms and then have a higher splash damage. If you guys essentially neuter the splash to essentially make direct hits the only viable shot, then this pistol is no different than any other of the pistols (now and future) and we might as well not have it in the game if its going to function like an ordinary pistol. Nobody hits you with a direct shot. A decrease of direct damage is not balancing it at all. Increasing splash damage would only further imbalance the weapon.
The fact that it has splash damage at all makes it different from other pistols. |
Stile451
Red Star. EoN.
144
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Posted - 2013.07.15 17:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
Must be one hell of a crutch if you will leave the game if it gets balanced. |
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