Implying it was the AR scrubs QQing and not the EvE players who are just horrible no matter what they use

The funny thing is the gap between milita and proto isn't much on alot of anti-infantry gear.

Look, if it wasn't the AR playerbase doing the vast majority of the QQing, then why isnt the AR nerfed into the ground, too?

Look, if it wasn't the AR playerbase doing the vast majority of the QQing, then why isnt the AR nerfed into the ground, too?

Blueberries are incredibly stupid. From the map when I was respawning, I saw one of our objectives get hacked while 3 blueberries were sitting around it. They didn't make any effort to stop the hack.

Blueberries are incredibly stupid. From the map when I was respawning, I saw one of our objectives get hacked while 3 blueberries were sitting around it. They didn't make any effort to stop the hack.

The funny thing is the gap between milita and proto isn't much on alot of anti-infantry gear.

Funny thing is that It became even wider with the strafe nerf and the introduction of Caldari Logistics and their racial bonus.

Now the gap in suits matters because the ability to move and aim doesn't.

They might as well just go the extra mile and make the game turn based.

You mean EVE players. Most are in fact indistinguishable from bad players, but there are subtle differences. For one bad players generally know they're bad while EVE players have their heads too far up CCP's ass to tell.

I'm calling bull **** on this. Most of the nerf threads come from people that don't take the time to learn the metagaming aspects of the game, get shedded trying to go toe-to-toe with heavies, engage scouts in CQC, and try to kill tanks with ARs and cry on the forums when things go sour. There's this stupid double standard that EVE players are ruining this game but to be honest, it's these cryhard FPSers with their super 1337 skills that think a rifle should be the end all be all. CCP CoDdles them and with every patch this game gets watered down a little more and Dust 514 winds up getting closer and closer to just another generic twitch arcade FPS with a shade of future on it. At this rate, CCP might as well bring in Ben Chichoski as a consultant just to speed the process up.

Oh and FYI, people tend to forget that the FPS genre started on the goddamned PC. But I guess you're so busy bending over backwards to Activision and EA, you can't see through their gouch.

The most "important" players, if you could call anyone that, are those actually spending money on the game. 1337 or not isn't even factored into the situation. Dust's main revenue is from DLC micro-transactions, that's what finances more content.

I'm calling bull **** on this. Most of the nerf threads come from people that don't take the time to learn the metagaming aspects of the game, get shedded trying to go toe-to-toe with heavies, engage scouts in CQC, and try to kill tanks with ARs and cry on the forums when things go sour. There's this stupid double standard that EVE players are ruining this game but to be honest, it's these cryhard FPSers with their super 1337 skills that think a rifle should be the end all be all. CCP CoDdles them and with every patch this game gets watered down a little more and Dust 514 winds up getting closer and closer to just another generic twitch arcade FPS with a shade of future on it. At this rate, CCP might as well bring in Ben Chichoski as a consultant just to speed the process up.

Oh and FYI, people tend to forget that the FPS genre started on the goddamned PC. But I guess you're so busy bending over backwards to Activision and EA, you can't see through their gouch.

No one gets shredded going toe to toe with heavies...

Ladies and gentlemen I present to you an angry EVE player that has not accepted his inability to point and shoot and speeds FPS players are used to

Ladies and gentlemen I present to you an angry EVE player that has not accepted his inability to point and shoot and speeds FPS players are used to

Your argument is a logical fallacy
Correlation does not imply causation

I'm calling bull **** on this. Most of the nerf threads come from people that don't take the time to learn the metagaming aspects of the game, get shedded trying to go toe-to-toe with heavies, engage scouts in CQC, and try to kill tanks with ARs and cry on the forums when things go sour. There's this stupid double standard that EVE players are ruining this game but to be honest, it's these cryhard FPSers with their super 1337 skills that think a rifle should be the end all be all. CCP CoDdles them and with every patch this game gets watered down a little more and Dust 514 winds up getting closer and closer to just another generic twitch arcade FPS with a shade of future on it. At this rate, CCP might as well bring in Ben Chichoski as a consultant just to speed the process up.

Oh and FYI, people tend to forget that the FPS genre started on the goddamned PC. But I guess you're so busy bending over backwards to Activision and EA, you can't see through their gouch.

The funny thing is the gap between milita and proto isn't much on alot of anti-infantry gear.

Are you seriously bitching about the playstation exclusivity? Also this game has little meta aspects as of now.

I'm calling bull **** on this. Most of the nerf threads come from people that don't take the time to learn the metagaming aspects of the game, get shedded trying to go toe-to-toe with heavies, engage scouts in CQC, and try to kill tanks with ARs and cry on the forums when things go sour. There's this stupid double standard that EVE players are ruining this game but to be honest, it's these cryhard FPSers with their super 1337 skills that think a rifle should be the end all be all. CCP CoDdles them and with every patch this game gets watered down a little more and Dust 514 winds up getting closer and closer to just another generic twitch arcade FPS with a shade of future on it. At this rate, CCP might as well bring in Ben Chichoski as a consultant just to speed the process up.

Oh and FYI, people tend to forget that the FPS genre started on the goddamned PC. But I guess you're so busy bending over backwards to Activision and EA, you can't see through their gouch.

The fact that you're blaming AR players for these changes is completely stupid. I could realistically flip that around and blame the no-skill vehicle players (heavies included, because they're walking tanks amirite?) caused the ARs to constantly get nerfed. I'm pretty sure the ARs have been changed more than any other weapons in the game, but it's clearly the fault of the AR players because they can't adapt?

Tell me, how many ARs do you see on the kill feed compared to everything else. It's the only serviceable weapon in the game.

Now don't get me wrong, there are some good FPS players out there that learned the character building aspects and stats since the majority of FPS these days go hand in hand with RPG. But there's that bad side of that player base that's in the Cult of Duty, spoiled by instant gratification through an arcade shooter that complain about anything and everything about this game or any game that isn't enough like CoD. At the same time, there's some serious neckbeards that want CCP to cater to them because of the EVE connection. You can't just sit there and blame one player base when this game is bringing both of them together. Each side has something good to offer just as much as their negative side will be the ruination of Dust if CCP appeals to them completely.

Judging by how you refer to pilots no skilled, I'm wondering what side you're in in your respective community....

I think you're seriously overestimating the impact of COD on most people's perceptions on what an FPS should be. There's a reason COD is a successful franchise; not necessarily because it's innovative but because it's consistent. I know that me, like many other FPS player look for consistency when playing FPS games. This has nothing to do with COD, just the fact that it is a desirable trait that many of us look for. The stupidest thing people do here is think that they're better because they're not some 'COD casual' and that everyone who doesn't want some convoluted mess of numbers and contingencies is looking to dumb down the game and make it like COD. All the FPS crowd ever wanted was some sort of consistently enjoyable gameplay. That combined with the lauded EVE metagame would make for an extremely fun and innovative FPS experience. The reason I blame the EVE players is from the previous builds where they wanted everything to be modeled after EVE, but in the form of an FPS. The convoluted skill trees, SP progression, grinding, etc. Even with a consistent and fun FPS experience, these kinds of things turn away new players and force them to forever be behind people who started before them, which is not at all in the spirit of an FPS game. The greater problem arose when the game could not deliver a consistent and fun FPS experience and new players wouldn't even want to jump through all the hopes to enter into a competent stage in the game. From my point of view, the metagame will develop on its own, but it's completely up to the game developer to create a fun and meaningful environment for that metagame to be carried out. In the end I guess most of the blame falls to CCP for being dogshit fps developers.

Your argument is a logical fallacy
Correlation does not imply causation

Not anymore because some whiny little brat couldn't respect someone else's play style and cried on the forums until that heavy got neutered. Back in the day, that description that said heavies could take focused fire meant they took focused fire. But those days are gone since CCP wanted to appeal to the lowest common denominator...

They might as well just go the extra mile and make the game turn based.

Final Fantasy 514?

You're missing the point, it's not either side's fault. It's CCP's issue because even to this day, I can't tell what they hell kind of FPS this game is supposed to be. They've gone from strafe and track to twitch, back to strafe, full twitch, and now we're in the middle of the road and both sides aren't happy.

I was just using CoD as an example of what's wrong with this game because you decided to, like everyone else blame EVE players like they got the devs by the balls. If they wanted this to be some EVE only thing, why the hell even make Dust for console and F2P? And in case if you didn't know, if it wasn't for Microsoft wanting the game to run on their servers, Dust 514 would've been on Xbox.

In the end I guess most of the blame falls to CCP for being dogshit fps developers.

Other then stating the obvious, it is incredibly rude to say the only people who should have a say are the people paying.

I've been playing FPS since Doom 95 and regularly play Quake 2 arena, try again. My jimmies remain unrustled.

I hate to break it to you but FPS games have moved on since then, something I think a lot of the EVE players havent realized
Its a damn shame they dont follow their own words when they tell people to adapt or die

All depends on what you play, if you want to keep up the whole eyes shut fingers in your ears the good old days were better no matter what anyone says then be my guest

No, this game needs to be on console if it's going to be F2P. I'd rather play against skilled players instead of hackers and aim-bots.

All the balancing for this game done around the terribad players in ambushes when the important parts of the game are PC with the elite players.

Before I go on, I must say that this is not an anti-AR thread because some of the best players in the game are AR guys; that being said, most of the terribad players are AR guys who QQ because they can't kill a tank, a heavy, a sniper, get shotgunned in the back, knifed, blown up by MD's, etc. Then you have the actual good AR players who rarely QQ on the forums because they understand their fit has inherent weaknesses against a weapon designed to work in very certain ways.

In Chromosome, mass drivers were pretty balanced. Yeah, you could get 25:0 in ashlands if you got in a high spot, but on flat ground, not so much. Then AR scrubs (i'm talking nooblets, not true AR specialists who are good at what they do) QQ on the forums about it and it gets nerfed into the ground. This same story goes for just about everything else such as draw range which affects rails, snipers, and forges, and the heavy's in many ways, lasers (**** up close but great at a distance...too bad nobody realized that). Et cetera....


CCP, please stop getting your ideas of balance from noobs who suck at what they do in ambushes and look at the good players fighting good players. If you did that, I'm pretty sure balance would be a lot better.

1 proto suit next to a militia one is only a couple slots difference right?
But when you add complex modules on it, paired with proto weapons, the gap between all militia and all proto is huge.

Hmmm, if matchmaking was a top priority, we wouldn't be having these balancing issues....

....All the FPS crowd ever wanted was some sort of consistently enjoyable gameplay. That combined with the lauded EVE metagame would make for an extremely fun and innovative FPS experience. The reason I blame the EVE players is from the previous builds where they wanted everything to be modeled after EVE, but in the form of an FPS. The convoluted skill trees, SP progression, grinding, etc. Even with a consistent and fun FPS experience, these kinds of things turn away new players and force them to forever be behind people who started before them, which is not at all in the spirit of an FPS game. The greater problem arose when the game could not deliver a consistent and fun FPS experience and new players wouldn't even want to jump through all the hopes to enter into a competent stage in the game. From my point of view, the metagame will develop on its own, but it's completely up to the game developer to create a fun and meaningful environment for that metagame to be carried out.....

You're missing the point, it's not either side's fault. It's CCP's issue because even to this day, I can't tell what they hell kind of FPS this game is supposed to be. They've gone from strafe and track to twitch, back to strafe, full twitch, and now we're in the middle of the road and both sides aren't happy.

I was just using CoD as an example of what's wrong with this game because you decided to, like everyone else blame EVE players like they got the devs by the balls. If they wanted this to be some EVE only thing, why the hell even make Dust for console and F2P? And in case if you didn't know, if it wasn't for Microsoft wanting the game to run on their servers, Dust 514 would've been on Xbox.

*cough* Uncharted *cough*

Though I do think they are some of the best games ever made. Just linear as all hell. In regards to this game I like it and continue to support it regardless. Too many people complaining over a game. This isn't life or death. If it bothers you guys go *gasp* outside and catch some rays.

The funny thing is the gap between milita and proto isn't much on alot of anti-infantry gear.

The funny thing is the gap between milita and proto isn't much on alot of anti-infantry gear.

*cough* Uncharted *cough*

Though I do think they are some of the best games ever made. Just linear as all hell. In regards to this game I like it and continue to support it regardless. Too many people complaining over a game. This isn't life or death. If it bothers you guys go *gasp* outside and catch some rays.

Seriously, everything was so much more fun when combat was fast paced and everyone had tons of HP. Scouts were speed demons that could dance circles around heavies, flanking had more of an impact, and a heavy was a goddamned heavy. What happened to that Dust 514? I want to play it again instead of this watered down mess...

Completely agree with OP.

Lol @ blaming AR users, the AR has been nerfed so many times now. Honestly at this point I feel the scrambler rifle is better, but people still point fingers at the ARs and act like they're king of the hill because most people use it. There has to be a versatile weapon, and it makes sense that most people would be using the versatile one anyway.

What do you expect most people to spec into in Dust? Seriously. Obviously a medium dropsuit and a LR/AR would be the standard. The reason for this is really simple, it's a versatile suit, and a versatile weapon. Say you don't know anyone in Dust, and you don't have a corp, why would you pick a suit and weapon that require you to play a specific way when you're going to be running with strangers that will most likely not have your back and won't compliment your fits weak points. It makes logical sense to me to pick the most versatile set up for most situations outside of corp battles where team composition is planned out.

Or people coming from other shooters, they're probably going to pick AR as well because it's going to be the most familiar weapon in many cases. There's a lot of reasons for AR to be a popular weapon, so I find it funny when people use popularity to justify something being OP.

Hell even for those who have found a group to play with, it's not like they're always going to be around to have your back.

It blows my mind when people act surprised that the most versatile set up is the most popular, why does this surprise people? You should expect it. The only games where AR isn't the most popular weapon seem to be ones where the AR is pathetic in comparison to other weapons, to the point of it not being a viable choice.

Personally I blame bad players and CCPs bad decisions for the current state of Dust and terrible weapons. The bad players because they're QQing on the forums and trying to give input on how weapons should be changed when they can't even play their own fit well. Who are you to tell developers how to change other weapons if you're simply a bad player? QQ ARs are too good because you're a heavy HMGer who picked the wrong fight, or didn't stay in close quarters areas. Or QQ your AR can't blow up tanks anymore and you're too bad to spec into AV, you'd rather tryhard it up and spend it all in anti-infantry skills and avoid vehicles completely while you pad your KDR.

Oh I could go on, but notice I wouldn't just point my finger at one type of player because I really do believe that it's bad players in general. People have been crying about heavies for many builds now and claim they can't win toe to toe with assaults, when I play my heavy and I shred everyone who comes at me.. and I see other good heavies doing the same. Just another case of bad players providing input when they can't even play their class correctly.

Then CCP decides to balance around what these people say. I think that CCP should only be getting feedback and balancing based off of what happens in competitive matches. The good, close, knock-out drag-out corp battles between good players. In those matches you see a mix of weapons and not just all ARs; and for a good reason. You may want to say that ARs are the king over every weapon, but I dare you to bring your corp of all AR users against a good corp that has a healthy mix of weapons. You'll get torn a new one.

Those are the matches where you'll see the weapon balance the best, not random pub stomp matches. A good group could go into a random match and stomp everyone out easily with any weapon and those randoms would probably be QQing about how broken it is. It's just how FPS players are and I've accepted that after so many years, it's rare for someone who got beat into the ground to send a GG message or compliment you instead of blaming your suit/weapon and calling you a noob.

Oh and to the ppl who think the mass driver was balanced in the last build ROFL....your hilarious. Yes its balanced that you can 2 shot an advanced heavy with splash dmg only.....and 1 shot them if you hit them directly...yes thats a balanced weapon. Watching tiel in imperfects playing with the MD while laughing at its OPdness was fun but made me question ppl who thought the weapon was balanced. He could clear an entire enemy team in the bowl with a single magazine from his mass driver. (i watched him to it to...2 shots in and he started only getting double....triple....and quadruple kills with his last few shots.

Yeah, public matches without matchmaking is a great way for judging a game mechanic's balance

So let me guess.......the Tac rifle was OP in this build but the mass driver in the last build wasnt right?

So 2 shotting with AOE adv heavies who ran tanking fits is reasonable to you? Heck Tiel 1 shot militia fits with the AOE only. If you ran a MD and couldnt do this then you obviously built it incorrectly. Mass drivers needed 1 of 2 things to happen. It either needed it mag size reduced or it needed its AOE reduced. MAG size was not changed and AOE was reduced to what 3 meters ish? I still dont understand how mass driver can have problems hitting within 3 meters of their target. Our mass driver users in imperfects have no problems with the changes.....in fact every one I have talked to noted that they like the changes because before the mass driver did such large AOE you really didnt have to be good to hit ppl with it. I am sorry if you disagree with this but the fact remains. Just like the laser was OP in the last build (which CCP has now overnerfed )

TAC AR was OP because it could be exploitable, and because it diminished incentive to use the other AR variants by excelling in areas they were meant for.

MD got nerfed 3 times this build: Damage reduction, splash radius reduction, trajectory nerf, and the nanohive nerf inderectly affected a weapon with an already bad field longevity. Also, dropsuits got an HP buff which makes it that much worse. Even with all these nerfs you can still get kills with the MD thanks to the straighter round trajectory, but it got nerfed in utility as an area denial and support weapon. Player skill is another factor you're overlooking too. Anything will be OP in skilled hands.

Edit: But arguing about what's OP or not is neither here nor there because in case you haven't noticed, everything in Uprising suffered from a flurry of sweeping changes because CCP felt like trying to fix things that weren't broken to begin with which is why the TAC AR was over buffed this build to begin with.

TAC AR was OP because it could be exploitable, and because it diminished incentive to use the other AR variants by excelling in areas they were meant for....

Uprising suffered from a flurry of sweeping changes because CCP felt like trying to fix things that weren't broken to begin with which is why the TAC AR was over buffed this build to begin with.

Look, if it wasn't the AR playerbase doing the vast majority of the QQing, then why isnt the AR nerfed into the ground, too?

Um yea ......the way you are talking proves that you have no idea what my lvl of skill is in this game. When I am saying something was OP you can almost guarantee it was OP because I took my time in studying that weapon. MD needed a change was it perhaps changed too much honestly that I dont know....but the AOE is where it should be.

I agree the changes CCP made in uprising was huge with all the range changes.....which honestly is why the TAC and other longer range weapons were used more. If they actually balanced the laser rifle properly you would have seen some of the nooby tac users complaining about the OP laser rifle roflstomping them. Also the TAC was ok in CQC but truthfully the reg AR definitely beat out the TAC in CQC...but I dont bother with the AR anymore. I just use the scrambler and laugh at the ppl who said the imperial scrambler is not good. OHKs and 0 recoil with massive dmg FTW!

To be perfectly honest, I'm a little baffled at what's happened with the Mass Driver. The reason for the splash and blast range nerf was that in playtests we found the MD to be so effective that at one point almost half the people in the office were using it in battles. Clearly, that's not been the case with Uprising and after getting the engineers to go elbow deep into the code it appears there may be a few reasons beyond dry numbers that are contributing to the MDs underwhelming performance.

One, there appears to be a de-sync between client and server so that (more often than it should) the server and client think the projectile exploded in different places. They're not far off, but enough so that shots you *think* are spot on are off the mark enough to do only minor splash damage. And two, I'm told splash occlusion is getting blocked by a single player character more than it should, contributing to the "randomness" of the damage dealt and the sometimes smudgy feeling of the weapon.

I'm hesitant to rebalance the weapon until we get these issues looked at (which is happening right now).

Even if the MD needed some re-balancing in Uprising, basing it off of the equivalent of a LAN is not the right way to do it. Also, it gets you to thinking how many other game mechanics did they decide to change through this accurate way of collecting data?

Funny how to a lot of people here, EVE players automatically = bad players