But, no, you're probably totally informed or else you wouldn't comment.

I'm not referring to you, specifically, Mith. Only to the the terrible posts that jumped on the bandwagon and were quick to wail about the most extreme possibilities without showing any of the reluctance to jump to conlusions that is needed by community and CPM alike while we await more information from CCP. OP's can have legitimate questions and still see the thread end up like Lord of the Flies.

Check this out, it should explain it: https://dust514.com/newsitem/?friendlyid=dust-514-council-of-planetary-management-1&channelid=60&channelname=blog&newsitempagetobeselected=blog

I'm not referring to you, specifically, Mith. Only to the the terrible posts that jumped on the bandwagon and were quick to wail about the most extreme possibilities without showing any of the reluctance to jump to conlusions that is needed by community and CPM alike while we await more information from CCP. OP's can have legitimate questions and still see the thread end up like Lord of the Flies.

Okay, I get you. I got the impression that you read the thread as an attack on Ironwolf.

Yeah, unfortunately drift towards ragethread seems to be an unfortunate consequence of discussing anything of actual import.

why are people like this continuing with this tactic month after month after month?

...Because they're still waiting for it to finally work. And it won't.

But, no, you're probably totally informed or else you wouldn't comment.

Oh no, the thread itself is not. At least where your intentions were concerned. I'm simply highlighting some of the banal conversation that's ensued, about how CCP has no one that knows FPS's, or that there's some communication blackout (completely different situation than "we'd like more, faster") or that the CPM is impotent (already proven far from that), or other ridiculous hyperbole that only accelerates the type of banal feedback that's already clogging the forums and taking time away from the community team - the very community team who's other job is to secure us the information we need from the developers.

That's right, you heard me - every minute that the community team is running around squashing shitposts and locking spamthreads full of tears and immaturity, is time that you're taking away from them supporting US by giving us the resources we need to get real conversations going about things like game balancing and performance. And that's all I'm asking people to consider here.

This thread is missing anime.

And I'd like to remind people the CPM is the bridge of gap of communications between us and CCP - cut them down only works to widen that gap further. It may be bad business practice - but it's unavoidable if you consider the small team CCP uses to make these games.

IWS is... just a terrible PR - and so is Jenza - and they're the two most active posters to the community - so ofc CPM looks like trash. But the fact is neither of them explain truly what it is they really even do with this information and many are concerned there lack of experience and bad posts will reflect onto CCP and things will get worse.

Shame no real community man like myself is on CPM who can handle all of the bullshit around here ;)

I think people are frustrated with the lack of communication. The vague dev posts that raised more questions than answers were fine in beta, bu this isn't beta anymore. For example, look at EVE online's patch notes whenever a new build comes out and look at the Swiss cheese we got for uprising. That's not good communication and the reason behind most knee jerk reactions. Now that this game is released, we need things to be a little more specific not only to us who survived beta, but new players that have no idea what this game is trying to be. We need timelines, facts, figures, numbers... spreadsheets!

Instead, we're still gettin the same old Mickey Mouse banter about trees and flowers.

This took ten years, most Dust players don't have ten years to wait.

Frankly we're all a bit frustrated right now, but only due to the sequence of events that was inevitable when we formed the CPM and that we knew would be unpleasant because it was never destined to be "happy-magic-fix-dust-overnight-land" as much as we'd love to romanticize the idea of a player council.

IWS is a great guy, a hard worker who means well and gives all of you far more attention than is often deserved, given some of the assholes he'll reply to. I've already warned him that responding to obvious trollbait threads like this one are a waste of time because many here simply want to vent anger and take statements out of context in order to incite riots. And lets cut through the bullshit - why are people like this continuing with this tactic month after month after month?

...Because they're still waiting for it to finally work. And it won't. CCP is not your enemy alliance you're at war with, they are a RL business staffed by human beings with feelings and none of you are going to successfully **** talk your way into the negotiating table with the individuals that can actually give you what you're bitching about. It's been tried for years, its failed, and you all know it. Pretend that you care about the game, but at least have the balls to admit you know this isn't going to work and that you're just having fun being an *******.

The more rage, butthurt, smack talk, and facepalming that fills forums - even with the feeble attampts at simply ratcheting up frequency and volume as if brute force emotion is somehow effective as a tactic with dealing with business professionals, the more you're going to find the CPM tuning out this noise as well, even if a few of has have a (well-intentioned) urge to quell emotions that are still going to be there until everything we want fixed is fixed.

Now lets look at some of the hyperbole we've heard in here already - emotionally driven by all parties involved. ...

Yes let's discuss hyperbole Hans?

You, yet again, attack everyone and everything in the forums.

...

It's this kind of hostility that is then communicated to Shanghai.

You and Ironwolf both have a bad attitude towards the very people you purport to represent.

And the vast majority of the forum warriors have an even worse attitude towards everyone who disagrees with them.

Frankly we're all a bit frustrated right now, but only due to the sequence of events that was inevitable when we formed the CPM and that we knew would be unpleasant because it was never destined to be "happy-magic-fix-dust-overnight-land" as much as we'd love to romanticize the idea of a player council.

IWS is a great guy, a hard worker who means well and gives all of you far more attention than is often deserved, given some of the assholes he'll reply to. I've already warned him that responding to obvious trollbait threads like this one are a waste of time because many here simply want to vent anger and take statements out of context in order to incite riots. And lets cut through the bullshit - why are people like this continuing with this tactic month after month after month?

...Because they're still waiting for it to finally work. And it won't. CCP is not your enemy alliance you're at war with, they are a RL business staffed by human beings with feelings and none of you are going to successfully **** talk your way into the negotiating table with the individuals that can actually give you what you're bitching about. It's been tried for years, its failed, and you all know it. Pretend that you care about the game, but at least have the balls to admit you know this isn't going to work and that you're just having fun being an *******.

The more rage, butthurt, smack talk, and facepalming that fills forums - even with the feeble attampts at simply ratcheting up frequency and volume as if brute force emotion is somehow effective as a tactic with dealing with business professionals, the more you're going to find the CPM tuning out this noise as well, even if a few of has have a (well-intentioned) urge to quell emotions that are still going to be there until everything we want fixed is fixed.

Now lets look at some of the hyperbole we've heard in here already - emotionally driven by all parties involved. Of course CCP as not a company know for making FPS's, but the Shanghai team is also chock full of staff from both Dice and Zipper and Praetorian himself described their experience making Battlefield Bad Company at the round table at Fanfest. The idea that there's no one in Shanghai that understands FPS games is frankly ridiculous. Again, feel free to try to torment IWS or to insult CCP's designers because of some statements that could have been phrased more elegantly (but were refreshingly heartfelt) but there's no denying objective fact here when it comes to the personnel involved in Dust's production.

Now do all of us, players and CSM and CCP alike - see the need for MORE staff working on the game? Absolutely. Can lack of time to work on a feature mimic the effect of an incompetent designer? Absolutely. Are any of us happy about the media's review scores? Not in the least, even if we may agree with some of them. Is there any point in pretending that there's no issues here to resolve? Of course not. And will calling CCP a failure when the issue lies there always being more we want done than there is people to do them (which is also improving as CCP hires more and more staff, which they are)

This notion that you all need to preach this to CCP, or to us on the CPM, or that the CPM needs to preach any of it to CCP - is simply absurd at this point. This is exactly why the established the CPM at this time to begin with, to construct and begin practicing with some rather essential communication pipelines that every party knows have to be established in order for us to make progress will help Dust evolve into the game it we know it nees to be

I know CCP's not about to abandon this anytime soon, the CPM sure isn't - as restless as all we are to get involved in a deeper capacity, and whether the rest of you abandon the game or not, at least suck it up and stop pretending you're somehow helping by trying to tar and feather the CPM (which only makes you like an ass to CCP, who know better as to what we've been helping with).

For those that stick around, HTFU and stop QQ-ing about how everything's a disaster and that boomotherfuckinghoo everything is all doomed and ****. Either be part of the solution, and work with us - or own up to the asshattery and continue to spam useless circlejerk threads like this one.

As IWS said - we're in a state of transition right now, there are internal meeting going on to establish the best way to use the CPM and to reach out to the community, and CCP's already owned up to the fact that they're aware of what needs to be done. We are slated to have more meetings with them this week in order to answer many of the questions we have, and we'll have more to report at that time.

Given how infrequently ccp makes substantive posts that seems inevitable?

People would just rage over the content of those posts if they did.

Well I 'seen' the patch notes (up and coming) most of them are things you guys have asked for it seems. All I hope is CCP publishes them in good time.

I don't feel comfortable talking about it on the forums because its a subject I already know that was not that popular to begin with when it was first done and IRC has been helpful enough on deliberating on a path forward to fixing it for next time.

Yes let's discuss hyperbole Hans?

You, yet again, attack everyone and everything in the forums.

...

It's this kind of hostility that is then communicated to Shanghai.

You and Ironwolf both have a bad attitude towards the very people you purport to represent.

P.S. You still don't seem to actually play Dust514, you were in what 1? battle as we ejected your alliance from PC?

Well, the problem.is.not.ccp listening to us.

The problem is.ccp is looking in the forums and try to judge by the thread-titles.
We have and we still have very good conversations on the forums how to balance stuff. And we also had this back in chromoaome. Major changes in the gameplay and in the weapon balance who were made from chromosome to uprising all came from ccp. I cant remember any discussions where people said give assault suits just 1 equipment slot, about making logi suits super powerful, nerfing all weapons to death except for ar, and oh yeah please ccp, make the tac.the absolute op weapon.

I'm visiting the forums very frequent since open beta, and haven't seen requests on this.
So you can blame whoever you want, but not us.

The beta was useless because it was no beta, i could not feel any tweaking or changes implemented in the open beta at all. And we are talking about 4-5 months. Every mistake ccp did with uprising would have been avoidable if ccp would have actually talked to their customer base and tried stuff in the beta like they are trying now.

this is the truth, and yeah truth sometimes hurt. But if you make a mistake stand to it and get your ass up to learn from this mistakes, instead of blaming anybody else. We all left kindergarten a long time ago. So lets at least try to behave like grown up men and women.