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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
4854
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Posted - 2013.06.04 03:21:00 -
[61] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:
This took ten years, most Dust players don't have ten years to wait.
Yup which is why my comment wound up on IRC, getting a bit frustrated.
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Icy TIG3R
Red Star.
EoN.
325
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Posted - 2013.06.04 03:21:00 -
[62] - Quote
They're right.
Bad players have f***** this game up.
"Lower strafing we can't aim"
"Nerf all weapons but AR's"
"Nerf Heavy's"
"Nerf tanks"
"Nerf the dropsuit HP cause we can't do proper 1 v 1's"
I hate you people. |
XxWarlordxX97
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1823
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Posted - 2013.06.04 03:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
Icy TIG3R wrote:They're right.
Bad players have f***** this game up.
"Lower strafing we can't aim"
"Nerf all weapons but AR's"
"Nerf Heavy's"
"Nerf tanks"
"Nerf the dropsuit HP cause we can't do proper 1 v 1's"
.
Now we know the problem |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens
114
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Posted - 2013.06.04 03:23:00 -
[64] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:
This took ten years, most Dust players don't have ten years to wait.
Yup which is why my comment wound up on IRC, getting a bit frustrated.
Well I wish you the best of luck in your meeting, and I wish that this meeting marks a pivotal point in the development in Dust for a forseeable and prosperous future.
BL4CKST4R
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Abron Garr
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
367
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Posted - 2013.06.04 03:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
Honestly, this is infuriating. Someone needs to tell CCP Shanghai to get over themselves. You don't get to rest on the laurels of other CCP divisions and get mad whenever the forums erupt, especially since apart from Dust, I can't recall any other "AAA" titles they have under their belt.
Were the Shanghai folks asleep when Hilmar was prostrating himself on behalf of CCP during 2012 Fanfest? If so, it's time for a nice ol' fashioned "Come to Jesus" from CCP home base. |
omega 015
Reaper Galactic
ROFL BROS
17
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Posted - 2013.06.04 03:32:00 -
[66] - Quote
Gunner Nightingale wrote:omega 015 wrote:I would never listen to any fanbase. The fans have zero experience with game design but they still listen to us. You're right we only have played 1000s of hours of games in our lifetimes yet we know nothing about games because we never designed a game before, smh? Sorry there is a difference between ignorance and learned experience. We know what works well and what doesn't in terms of gameplay because most of us have played games most our lives. More often than not however and what you mean to say is bad players don't know good game design but often carry the loudest voice because there are so many more bad players then good. Uncharted patch 1.04 is the biggest example of this i can think of aside from this game especially from the time EVE players started coming in prior to last August and decided they knew how to make a great FPS with all their years of playing spaceship MMO.
You are right, I am wrong. |
Shady IceCream Truck
Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel
37
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Posted - 2013.06.04 03:33:00 -
[67] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:2013-06-03 4:48:57 PM) Ironwolf: wrote:Right now CCP Shanghai is at a point they don't want to listen to you guys and they're just as reluctant to listent ot the CPM Don't worry guys. CCP Shanghai is on this. The poor reviews are clearly the result of listening to us too hard and they've realised that our feedback is worthless. We're sorry for ruining your game, CCP. You are free to implement your brilliant ideas without our feedback now. UPDATE: Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Before it gets too out of hand let me explain a short bit of what the CPM has been trying to do for the last few weeks.
Right now the CPM is in a very odd situation, we have a new studio that well for most matters and intents do not really know what to do with us. The CPM would like to mimic the CSM whose workload is rather well lets say drowning. However the Studio in Shanghai well new at many of things including making FPS games.
CPM for the last two weeks has been trying to get on the line with CCP and right now CCP is as usual with many things slow to do things but hopefully starting soon the CPM will be able to start proving its worth to CCP as well as your guy's feedback on issues.
There is now a meeting to be scheduled soon asking for feedback of specific parts of the game with the team involved. If successful this may open up other teams to start approaching the CPM and the Community for feedback.
Not all of CCP Shanghai is bad at listening, there are quite a few reluctant to try though.
So now you understand the statement in IRC a bit, I certainly hope that the changes are genuine and changing and I hopefully will not have to repeat this statement in the future.
ya there doing a bang up job listening to the players.. lol
Just stop listening to AR fanbois.. theres a start
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BatKing Deltor
Tank Bros.
DARKSTAR ARMY
32
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Posted - 2013.06.04 03:35:00 -
[68] - Quote
Constant updates on progress would be nice, updates on the next patches progress such as how far or what features are being worked on/ finished or almost finished and what's currently being worked on.
I didn't hear of the rail rifles being worked on "internally" until someone made some thread of ( scrambler rifles i think it was?) and a dev responded with that info.
It would be nice to know that ahead of time and not just when someone asks a question, id like to see that info as its being worked on. I'd rather know what's going on, I don't need surprises and guessing for what's in the next big update/patch.
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SoTah Pawp
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
184
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:07:00 -
[69] - Quote
IWS - I only want to know one thing from you.
Are they using mostly pub data to make game changing decisions that effect competitive level play? |
Don Von Hulio
Not Guilty
EoN.
277
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:12:00 -
[70] - Quote
Its not the "AR fanbois".
Its all CCP and their inexperience with FPS's in general. They should callin some outside advice from other developers who have made good FPS's before. |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
3405
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:13:00 -
[71] - Quote
Shady IceCream Truck wrote:Just stop listening to AR fanbois.. theres a start
But I thought you're supposed to balance from the top down?
 |
Aoena Rays
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
76
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:13:00 -
[72] - Quote
So CPM wants to hand-hold CCP apparently? Might as well just hire entire CPM and do game design then! I don't understand individual CPM members that feel "useless" though. Why not resign then? :/ If you can't find yourself useful to CCP sounds like a good idea to me to do...?
I thought IWS is patient and calm dude but he is trying hard to respond to everyone here and just getting buried and melting away from all attacks all over the place. |
SoTah Pawp
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
184
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
Don Von Hulio wrote:Its not the "AR fanbois".
Its all CCP and their inexperience with FPS's in general. They should callin some outside advice from other developers who have made good FPS's before.
They have several DICE staff and other FPS devs already - still they fail. |
Don Von Hulio
Not Guilty
EoN.
277
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:15:00 -
[74] - Quote
SoTah Pawp wrote:Don Von Hulio wrote:Its not the "AR fanbois".
Its all CCP and their inexperience with FPS's in general. They should callin some outside advice from other developers who have made good FPS's before. They have several DICE staff and other FPS devs already - still they fail.
Did these ex DICE staffers quit? Or were they fired/layed off. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1900
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:15:00 -
[75] - Quote
SoTah Pawp wrote:Don Von Hulio wrote:Its not the "AR fanbois".
Its all CCP and their inexperience with FPS's in general. They should callin some outside advice from other developers who have made good FPS's before. They have several DICE staff and other FPS devs already - still they fail.
Depends on which DICE/Zipper staff they have, whether that's helping their core shooter or not. |
Don Von Hulio
Not Guilty
EoN.
279
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:21:00 -
[76] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:SoTah Pawp wrote:Don Von Hulio wrote:Its not the "AR fanbois".
Its all CCP and their inexperience with FPS's in general. They should callin some outside advice from other developers who have made good FPS's before. They have several DICE staff and other FPS devs already - still they fail. Depends on which DICE/Zipper staff they have, whether that's helping their core shooter or not.
Didnt DUST used to run off of Frostbite? Just thought about that, but now they use Unreal... so instead of typing a long foil hat paragraph, ill let you guys assume what im getting at. |
SoTah Pawp
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
185
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:25:00 -
[77] - Quote
SoTah Pawp wrote:IWS - I only want to know one thing from you.
Are they using mostly pub data to make game changing decisions that effect competitive level play?
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grreen mctree
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
35
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
It kinda looks like those Dic(k)e devs came well equipped with Gustav Hailing's nails.
Almost forgot, **** you iws |
Jenova's Witness
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
137
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:47:00 -
[79] - Quote
Players are going to have an opinion no matter what. It's up to the developer to decide what's a good idea or a bad idea, they make the game. If they can't filter out what's important from what's not, something is seriously wrong. Don't blame the players, we don't know what we're doing outside of forum warrioring. Blame the side of the game that has the final say. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
1857
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Posted - 2013.06.04 04:50:00 -
[80] - Quote
SoTah Pawp wrote:SoTah Pawp wrote:IWS - I only want to know one thing from you.
Are they using mostly pub data to make game changing decisions that effect competitive level play?
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Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
87
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Posted - 2013.06.04 05:16:00 -
[81] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Listening to players or not wasn't the problem. The problem was listening to the players en masse and collectively. If anything CCP should listen to fewer players. Ones that they feel are both objective and able to consider a point from many angles. They should be more decerning. They will still get different ideas and opinions - but more constructive and balanced ones. The current state of the forums and player feedback resembles the US political system. Not a lot gets done.
On target, fire for effect.
Crowdsourcing has value, although the forum format seems kind of questionable. Although I'm not sure how many of us would be willing to do statistical surveys one after another. The current active posting forum population seems a bit small for any data that could stand up to a CI. Not to leave out the poor guys on CCPs side who would have to keep up constant communication with in-house staff and the community.
Alternatively simple data could be collected by questionnaires that people decide to be a part of while logged into the game.
I'm kind of torn on the idea of a selected group (or conclave if private) making the decisions. With no accountability it turns into a trust matter and one thing that anyone who has played allot of Eve Online knows, "trust kills." Impartiality is another, people can debate points very well to get things to a certain point without being fair-minded.
A committee method could work where a trusted group takes on an issue in a scholarly manner. Makes a public report. Then after an elapsed open commentary time the report (and highest ranked replies plus any mods deem appropriate) gets forwarded to the developers. The biggest risks again being trust and impartiality.
~~~~
In some ways we're not so bad off right now even with much of the visceral dissent. Massive forum rage has value when certain boundaries have crossed. It's the mini-political campaigns that really add an element of sleaze.
In the end these things always comes down to data collection and critical thinking. |
Jenova's Witness
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
139
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Posted - 2013.06.04 05:25:00 -
[82] - Quote
Blame the players because you can't make your own game? I'm sure this worked out well for Capcom with Megaman Legends 3. |
Heinrich Jagerblitzen
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
354
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Posted - 2013.06.04 06:02:00 -
[83] - Quote
Aoena Rays wrote:So CPM wants to hand-hold CCP apparently? Might as well just hire entire CPM and do game design then! I don't understand individual CPM members that feel "useless" though. Why not resign then? :/ If you can't find yourself useful to CCP sounds like a good idea to me to do...?
I thought IWS is patient and calm dude but he is trying hard to respond to everyone here and just getting buried and melting away from all attacks all over the place.
Frankly we're all a bit frustrated right now, but only due to the sequence of events that was inevitable when we formed the CPM and that we knew would be unpleasant because it was never destined to be "happy-magic-fix-dust-overnight-land" as much as we'd love to romanticize the idea of a player council.
IWS is a great guy, a hard worker who means well and gives all of you far more attention than is often deserved, given some of the assholes he'll reply to. I've already warned him that responding to obvious trollbait threads like this one are a waste of time because many here simply want to vent anger and take statements out of context in order to incite riots. And lets cut through the bullshit - why are people like this continuing with this tactic month after month after month?
...Because they're still waiting for it to finally work. And it won't. CCP is not your enemy alliance you're at war with, they are a RL business staffed by human beings with feelings and none of you are going to successfully **** talk your way into the negotiating table with the individuals that can actually give you what you're bitching about. It's been tried for years, its failed, and you all know it. Pretend that you care about the game, but at least have the balls to admit you know this isn't going to work and that you're just having fun being an *******.
The more rage, butthurt, smack talk, and facepalming that fills forums - even with the feeble attampts at simply ratcheting up frequency and volume as if brute force emotion is somehow effective as a tactic with dealing with business professionals, the more you're going to find the CPM tuning out this noise as well, even if a few of has have a (well-intentioned) urge to quell emotions that are still going to be there until everything we want fixed is fixed.
Now lets look at some of the hyperbole we've heard in here already - emotionally driven by all parties involved. Of course CCP as not a company know for making FPS's, but the Shanghai team is also chock full of staff from both Dice and Zipper and Praetorian himself described their experience making Battlefield Bad Company at the round table at Fanfest. The idea that there's no one in Shanghai that understands FPS games is frankly ridiculous. Again, feel free to try to torment IWS or to insult CCP's designers because of some statements that could have been phrased more elegantly (but were refreshingly heartfelt) but there's no denying objective fact here when it comes to the personnel involved in Dust's production.
Now do all of us, players and CSM and CCP alike - see the need for MORE staff working on the game? Absolutely. Can lack of time to work on a feature mimic the effect of an incompetent designer? Absolutely. Are any of us happy about the media's review scores? Not in the least, even if we may agree with some of them. Is there any point in pretending that there's no issues here to resolve? Of course not. And will calling CCP a failure when the issue lies there always being more we want done than there is people to do them (which is also improving as CCP hires more and more staff, which they are)
This notion that you all need to preach this to CCP, or to us on the CPM, or that the CPM needs to preach any of it to CCP - is simply absurd at this point. This is exactly why the established the CPM at this time to begin with, to construct and begin practicing with some rather essential communication pipelines that every party knows have to be established in order for us to make progress will help Dust evolve into the game it we know it nees to be
I know CCP's not about to abandon this anytime soon, the CPM sure isn't - as restless as all we are to get involved in a deeper capacity, and whether the rest of you abandon the game or not, at least suck it up and stop pretending you're somehow helping by trying to tar and feather the CPM (which only makes you like an ass to CCP, who know better as to what we've been helping with).
For those that stick around, HTFU and stop QQ-ing about how everything's a disaster and that boomotherfuckinghoo everything is all doomed and ****. Either be part of the solution, and work with us - or own up to the asshattery and continue to spam useless circlejerk threads like this one.
As IWS said - we're in a state of transition right now, there are internal meeting going on to establish the best way to use the CPM and to reach out to the community, and CCP's already owned up to the fact that they're aware of what needs to be done. We are slated to have more meetings with them this week in order to answer many of the questions we have, and we'll have more to report at that time. |
S0LlD SNAKE
PLAYSTATION4
95
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Posted - 2013.06.04 06:03:00 -
[84] - Quote
CPM? |
Heinrich Jagerblitzen
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
354
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Posted - 2013.06.04 06:05:00 -
[85] - Quote
Hello. o/ |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1901
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Posted - 2013.06.04 06:08:00 -
[86] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:IWS is a great guy, a hard worker who means well and gives all of you far more attention than is often deserved, given some of the assholes he'll reply to. I've already warned him that responding to obvious trollbait threads like this one are a waste of time
Funny, considering your lack of involvement in the discussions with IWS before and after the creation of this thread and the inclusion of his clarification in the OP. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1901
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Posted - 2013.06.04 06:13:00 -
[87] - Quote
But, no, you're probably totally informed or else you wouldn't comment. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1901
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Posted - 2013.06.04 06:18:00 -
[88] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:trying to tar and feather the CPM
Mithridates VI wrote:FTR: This came up while Ironwolf was being a scholar and a gentleman in soliciting feedback about game events.
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S0LlD SNAKE
PLAYSTATION4
95
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Posted - 2013.06.04 06:18:00 -
[89] - Quote
Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote:
what is CPM?
what CPM stands for? |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
1902
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Posted - 2013.06.04 06:20:00 -
[90] - Quote
S0LlD SNAKE wrote:Heinrich Jagerblitzen wrote: what is CPM? what CPM stands for?
Check this out, it should explain it: https://dust514.com/newsitem/?friendlyid=dust-514-council-of-planetary-management-1&channelid=60&channelname=blog&newsitempagetobeselected=blog |
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