Perfect balance isn't going to happen.

But the core reason mouse aim is unfair on Sixaxis players is NOT the precision, it's the ability to pull instant 180s without a LOSS of precision.
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Perfect balance isn't going to happen.

But the core reason mouse aim is unfair on Sixaxis players is NOT the precision, it's the ability to pull instant 180s without a LOSS of precision.

Putting a turn speed cap leaves it still unbalanced, but in a manner where a skilled Sixaxis player still has a chance.

If a console shooter player gets behind an enemy and opens fire, they have a short window of opportunity in which to basically decide the fight before their opponent can return fire. In a PC FPS, a skilled mouse user can negate the advantage of surprise, unless the opponent is using a weapon that one-shots them, or the game comes without a directional damage indicator.

Is it technically possible to use raw input and add turn speed cap on top of that?

Edit: I do think that the problem isn't turn speed limits, those are entirely fine by me. Problem is responsiveness or input delay.

Yeah, CCP, give those guys easy mode, judging by QQ they really need it.

Turning speed limitation is for DS3 and console losers, pro KBM people are beyond limitations of mere console mortals.

Please CCP, give in, because otherwise the community will be shattered and DUST will fail! /s

anyone play(ed) CS:GO, did controllers have the optional button or combo of butttons to do 180? that could be useful here.

So its actually fine by you if mouse would have raw input but with turn speed cap?

they can like they did it in chromosone, i could do a 360 with about 10-12cm mousemat used vs 1cm on PC and they had a 3000 DPI input limit set, maybe thats a hardware constraint on the ps3 but they should be able to block user set DPI settings that say go over 2000 DPI.

That way, their Sensetivity Slider + max DPI of 2000 = our max turn limit.

The problem with chromosome is that it still had enormous input lag. But if they had raw input on mouse in chromosome then i think nothing would help. And the problem is in sluggish hardware itself. Should i rant for better optimization then?
Or abandon all hope and die waiting for PS4/PC release?

Edit: damn i lost all my optimism in one evening.

Ill take that input lag we had, but that was due to the game running in debug mode most likely, so now that we are out of debug they had to add a virtual input lag to keep us playing with 1 hand, sadly it turns out they took both of my arms and my eyes aswell with these changes.

The controllers are inherently out of balance. Trying to equalize it makes them equally bad. Want to make the game equally bad or potentially good?

Get rid of KB/M problem solved

You can't reason with controller fanboys bro.

They want to be rewarded for putting in no effort.

They might as well all be on welfare.

So guys, I've been following this whole mouse and keyboard debate for quite some time now and I just wanted to give my thoughts on this issue. First let me just put it out there that I play Dust 514 with a DS3, never tried the mouse on this game, probably never will so I don't know how responsive the controls are at the moment. However I did play the original Counter Strike since the beta on PC, man, so I guess you could say I know a thing or two about the the differences between playing with a mouse vs a controller.

Now what worries me with this whole situation is that a lot of you guys in this thread are awesome players, I see you guys regularly dominate games with ease. And that's with suboptimal controls. I'm not saying it's easy to do that with mouse and keyboard though. I'm sure there are a lot of crappy mouse players out there too but, guys, even though I'm not a master with the DS3 by any means, I'm still fairly good with it and I know for a fact that I'd get absolutely slaughtered by a good player with perfect mouse and keyboard controls.

A lot of people say that perfect mouse controls isn't really an unfair thing, because everyone can use it. Sure, guys, it's not unfair and make no mistake about it, I'm gonna be here playing this game no matter what, and I don't give a **** if someone's controlling his character telepathically. That being said, though, I find it more enjoyably to play with a DS3, that's why I play my vide games mainly on my PlayStation and when I'm playing a PlayStation game, guys, I don't expect to be horribly handicapped just because I choose to play with the main input method of the system. Now before you guys get all pissed off at me, man, I know that it's not enjoyable at all to play with broken mouse/keyboard controls either, it probably sucks ass horribly! So at the end of the day, man, I've got no clue what should be done with this issue and I don't pretend to know which way is the better way for the game long term either. It's gonna take someone much smarter. I just hope that guy's working for CCP as we speak.

So guys, I've been following this whole mouse and keyboard debate for quite some time now and I just wanted to give my thoughts on this issue. First let me just put it out there that I play Dust 514 with a DS3, never tried the mouse on this game, probably never will so I don't know how responsive the controls are at the moment. However I did play the original Counter Strike since the beta on PC, man, so I guess you could say I know a thing or two about the the differences between playing with a mouse vs a controller.

Now what worries me with this whole situation is that a lot of you guys in this thread are awesome players, I see you guys regularly dominate games with ease. And that's with suboptimal controls. I'm not saying it's easy to do that with mouse and keyboard though. I'm sure there are a lot of crappy mouse players out there too but, guys, even though I'm not a master with the DS3 by any means, I'm still fairly good with it and I know for a fact that I'd get absolutely slaughtered by a good player with perfect mouse and keyboard controls.

A lot of people say that perfect mouse controls isn't really an unfair thing, because everyone can use it. Sure, guys, it's not unfair and make no mistake about it, I'm gonna be here playing this game no matter what, and I don't give a **** if someone's controlling his character telepathically. That being said, though, I find it more enjoyably to play with a DS3, that's why I play my vide games mainly on my PlayStation and when I'm playing a PlayStation game, guys, I don't expect to be horribly handicapped just because I choose to play with the main input method of the system. Now before you guys get all pissed off at me, man, I know that it's not enjoyable at all to play with broken mouse/keyboard controls either, it probably sucks ass horribly! So at the end of the day, man, I've got no clue what should be done with this issue and I don't pretend to know which way is the better way for the game long term either. It's gonna take someone much smarter. I just hope that guy's working for CCP as we speak.

I appreciate people that don't mind the input people use, ive played fps games with a mouse & keyboard from the original wolfenstein 3D (witch wasnt 3D technically) up to today.

What most people think is KB/M is instant I-Win vs controllers, if you suck at an FPS it really doesn't change much
what input device you use.

Ive played CS competitively and used KB/M for well ever, its no option for me to convert to a controller but besides that good controller users give me a run for my money. Some even take my money, so i dont see where the issue is at.

Seems more like if a bad controller user looses to someone else, he makes up the notion of "he had to be using a KB/M because i rock!"

At the end of the day its the user that makes the control, not the control that makes the user.

If you were a competitive gamer, you would go for mouse and keyboard. You already know its the better option, and that it raises the skill mountain and possibilities for good gameplay quite drastically.

You are clearly not a competitive gamer as you have opted not to do that.

Currently, console shooters are looked at as a joke by PC gamers because the skill mountain is flattened by the use of a controller. You may prefer it for comfort, but competition is not about comfort. It's about pushing yourself to do amazing things.

I play this game because it has KB/M as an option, which tells me it is attempting to be an actual legitimate competitive shooter on a console. If it starts going in the opposite direction and nerfing KB/M, then it will simply be looked at as yet another joke of a shooter and us PC guys will keep walking.

We have plenty of other options and are under no obligation to play a game that most console players won't touch due to its already declining reputation and a console gamers typically limited attention span towards slow development.


Also, you say you don't expect to be horribly handicapped by choosing to use the default method of control... but guess what? That's exactly what happens in every competitive genre.

Fighting gamers use 150 dollar arcade sticks to get that extra edge. Racing gamers use wheel setups. Flight sims use flight sticks. Mech-based games use all kinds of crazy expensive ****.

All of it is expected and allowed, because it raises the metagame into something glorious.

Console shooters are the only crowd that have this over-entitled attitude that they should not have to take responsibility for their controls. It's lazy and deplorable, and you hold the entire genre back.

Sorry Ric. I gotta completely disagree.

M/KB is not better than controller. Some people think it is. They say mouse is more precise. Mouse is more fluid. It isn't. The player determines which is better. The only honest advantage the mouse has is that a player can swipe a mouse across an area at any speed. Controllers are limited by the physical edges of the stick area. Once the mouse is limited in turn rate to be equal to the sticks on the controller there will be nothing the m/kb can do that the controller can't.

Some people are better with m/kb. Maybe that's how they started fps games. Maybe their wrist is stronger than their thumb. Whatever the reason - that scheme fits them better.

Some people are better with the controller. Maybe they are dexterous with their fingers than arms. Maybe ability to move the whole controller helps them keep a rhythm. Whatever the reason - that setting fits them better.

But no matter how you slice it - a control scheme is just that. One is not better than the other. One is not handicapped vs the other. It's time people stop blaming their tools....(when they work that is!)

I have a player in my Corp named Hel Zazaku.

She also happens to be a very good friend of mine.

Between Chromosome and Uprising, she has reported no reduction to her ability to one-shot any infantry player with the Forge Gun with pinpoint accuracy while using the mouse. Since she started playing back at the beginning of the Open Beta, having a turn rate cap on mouse input has never been an issue for her.

Her first match in this build with a Forge Gun, she came in near the end of the match, and went 8/2 with a Basic Heavy suit.

I think you guys are full of ****.

I guess our standpoints to this are different. Yes - you can play with a mouse. You just cannot play well with one, in the sense that mouse freedom, stability and responsiveness is much better in other fps games.

In chromosome I had a resemblance of twitch accuracy in my play; I could reach a state where the next target was hit in under half a second without so much aiming as just a wrist movement that came from the spine. Hand-eye-coordination was in. Uprising mouse issues with acceleration and odd deadzones removed this coordination, and the case was not in sensitivity tweaks but clear inconsistency of mouse movement. I could only describe it as inverse acceleration: fast movements made slower, slow movements made faster.

I'm not aiming in going positive on public games or scoring decently in them. I want to get in the groove with whatever role I play in dust. I can't get in groove now - chromosome was better.