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5aEKUXeRJGJ27kCDnDVYak5q
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
47
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Posted - 2013.05.07 00:24:00 -
[91] - Quote
Dust is actually... a submarine simulator
Turn to the right! Aim at enemy!
On it!
20 minutes later
Are we facing the enemy yet
I'm trying!!! |
Schalac 17
DUST University Ivy League
77
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Posted - 2013.05.07 00:26:00 -
[92] - Quote
Matakage wrote:Crazed Capitalist wrote:Matakage wrote:To all you mouse and keyboard users, I just have to say....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Poor babies don't get their split-second 360 turn headshots anymore. Aww, so sad. You're constrained to a realistc human capacity to aim and shoot? Oh crap! Now you might actually have to think about getting tactical advantages on your opponents by predicting their movement path and hitting them from the least expected angles of attack! You know, like everyone else who plays the game without an aiming advantage over everyone else.
I'm willing to bet your ability to acquire targets within your field of view is not significantly altered, but if it is then that's truly messed up. However, if the game is now preventing you from acquiring targets nearly instantaneously from a 360 degree radius, then that's what we call "fair." Controllers are far from realistic human capacity, mouse is much closer. All those "tactical" advantages are done by all players. Don't blame us because you choose to use an objectively worse control scheme The fact remains, if the mouse allowed your character to turn faster than was intended by CCP, then it was an issue that needed to be addressed, especially if the turn speed was faster than that of a DS3 player. Different controller schemes are supposed to be different, not just plain better. The mouse allows you to turn faster because you can skip it. It's like a typewriter. DING DING DING. I honestly don't know why people don't like the new mouse though. Strafe past someone, do a 180 and plow a clip into their backside while they try to track with a DS3. The new KB/M feel is nice. |
Matakage
WildCard Ninja Clan
33
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Posted - 2013.05.07 00:29:00 -
[93] - Quote
Crazed Capitalist wrote:General Sideboob wrote:Fact of the matter is all the KBM dorks thought they had skills because the rest of us were too lazy to plug a mouse in and went with the DS3 instead.
Now CCP has told them they don't have skills, and made the playing field more even. Ha ha ha. Kiss it bro. You gonna get tore in half now unless you learn to play. Learn to play. Mouse users don't rely on aim assist. Maybe if you weren't choosing an inferior controller
Aim-assist has to do with precise aiming when a target is already acquired. That has nothing to do with a mouse being able to spin a character's aim anywhere in a 360 degree radius in a fraction of a second, which is the specific advantage of a mouse and keyboard over a controller. |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
368
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Posted - 2013.05.07 00:36:00 -
[94] - Quote
I just want the aim acceleration removed. So impresice now.. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2718
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Posted - 2013.05.07 00:36:00 -
[95] - Quote
Lasarte Ioni wrote:It's not a matter of skill Lets imagine a aim skill scale (0-10) All numbers are made up btw. On DS3 you can improve your aim to say.... 5 in 1 year of playing FPS On mouse you can improve your aim to a little more lets say 6
5 years later, the DS3 player got the 7 and the DS3 can't go further (he has to use tactics to improve, because he can't improve aim-wise) Mouse meanwhile sits at 10 and is wondering when 10K DPI mouses will be available so he can get the 12 out of 10.
So the mouse player is gonna headshot 5 times while the DS3 player gets 1 and some body hits; that is called unfair play. Making mouse slow is the logic step, but it feels weird since no PC FPS feels the need to do it mainly because it's stupid since everyone is using M/KB Actually, if you're willing to turn sensitivity down on the sixaxis controller, you CAN get up to 10 accuracy, but it costs turn speed to do it.
Mouse can have 10 accuracy and 10 turn speed. Sixaxis is capped at at 17 total between the two. Max turn speed means loss of accuracy, max accuracy means loss of turn speed. Increasing skill with the sixaxis controller generally means that you can turn the sensitivity higher without missing, whereas with a mouse, you find a comfortable sensitivity, and learn to scale both up.
With DUST having a turn speed cap, this means that mouse users get limited to about 8 turn speed - maximum the game allows, but retain the potential, with the right sensitivity for the player, and the controls actually working competently, for 10 accuracy with it. Still ahead of sixaxis. The mouse user will still have a SLIGHT edge in turn speed OR a SLIGHT edge in accuracy over a top-tier player, but it won't be an insurmountable obstacle, and you'll have to be a REALLY GOOD mouse user to top the sixaxis player instead of just needing the basic ability to insta-spin which you have in most other current-gen FPS games (and which was the reason UT3 and Shadowrun were terrible multiplatform games). |
Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
100
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 00:40:00 -
[96] - Quote
Selinate deux wrote:Use a dualshock.
If keyboard and mouse players got their controls unhindered, they'd be massacring everyone in every game and would make the game unplayable for those who don't really care to pull out a keyboard and mouse to play a PS3 game.
No. |
fred orpaul
The Tritan Industries RISE of LEGION
256
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Posted - 2013.05.07 00:43:00 -
[97] - Quote
I don't mind speed clipping(once the mouse reaches a certain speed you no longer continue to turn faster) for certain suits thats fine, but this neg acceleration curve is for the birds. |
Freyar Tarkin
Escapist Magazine
100
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 00:51:00 -
[98] - Quote
Matakage wrote:Crazed Capitalist wrote:General Sideboob wrote:Fact of the matter is all the KBM dorks thought they had skills because the rest of us were too lazy to plug a mouse in and went with the DS3 instead.
Now CCP has told them they don't have skills, and made the playing field more even. Ha ha ha. Kiss it bro. You gonna get tore in half now unless you learn to play. Learn to play. Mouse users don't rely on aim assist. Maybe if you weren't choosing an inferior controller Aim-assist has to do with precise aiming when a target is already acquired. That has nothing to do with a mouse being able to spin a character's aim anywhere in a 360 degree radius in a fraction of a second, which is the specific advantage of a mouse and keyboard over a controller.
Aim Assist has nothing to do with precise aiming other than magnetizing your input to stay on a target a bit more than it would otherwise. Take a game with aim assist, watch as it slows down and how it "nudges" a little to follow the target. Some games are stronger than others (Battlefield 3's beta in which I tested for all three platforms had a MASSIVE amount for the PS3 to the point where I literally didn't have to touch the stick to have the camera follow the target as he ran across my screen), but the principle is the same. Allow a user with an imprecise controller have a little leeway by letting it "snap" to a target a bit more with larger hitboxes. |
Crazed Capitalist
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
9
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Posted - 2013.05.07 00:53:00 -
[99] - Quote
Matakage wrote:Crazed Capitalist wrote:General Sideboob wrote:Fact of the matter is all the KBM dorks thought they had skills because the rest of us were too lazy to plug a mouse in and went with the DS3 instead.
Now CCP has told them they don't have skills, and made the playing field more even. Ha ha ha. Kiss it bro. You gonna get tore in half now unless you learn to play. Learn to play. Mouse users don't rely on aim assist. Maybe if you weren't choosing an inferior controller Aim-assist has to do with precise aiming when a target is already acquired. That has nothing to do with a mouse being able to spin a character's aim anywhere in a 360 degree radius in a fraction of a second, which is the specific advantage of a mouse and keyboard over a controller.
The vast majority of mouse users don't do this due to it making the sensitivity very finicky and hard to use when you want fine aiming. the ones who have the sensitivity that higher are the really skilled ones. I don't think it's fair to nerf those users who are good just because they are good. The advantage is not that, the advantage is the ability to finely aim and track a target. |
Selinate deux
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
53
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Posted - 2013.05.07 00:54:00 -
[100] - Quote
Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Selinate deux wrote:Use a dualshock.
If keyboard and mouse players got their controls unhindered, they'd be massacring everyone in every game and would make the game unplayable for those who don't really care to pull out a keyboard and mouse to play a PS3 game. No.
Then quit, you dumbass. You're playing on the PS3, not your computer. |
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Crazed Capitalist
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
9
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Posted - 2013.05.07 00:55:00 -
[101] - Quote
Selinate deux wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Selinate deux wrote:Use a dualshock.
If keyboard and mouse players got their controls unhindered, they'd be massacring everyone in every game and would make the game unplayable for those who don't really care to pull out a keyboard and mouse to play a PS3 game. No. Then quit, you dumbass. You're playing on the PS3, not your computer. The PS3 has had M/KB support you idiot, claiming it's on console doesn't matter. |
Freyar Tarkin
Escapist Magazine
100
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 00:57:00 -
[102] - Quote
Selinate deux wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Selinate deux wrote:Use a dualshock.
If keyboard and mouse players got their controls unhindered, they'd be massacring everyone in every game and would make the game unplayable for those who don't really care to pull out a keyboard and mouse to play a PS3 game. No. Then quit, you dumbass. You're playing on the PS3, not your computer.
A console that supports keyboard and mouse, in a game that was advertised to have keyboard and mouse support... that doesn't work? |
Bethhy
Not Guilty EoN.
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 00:58:00 -
[103] - Quote
This is NOT a debate if a controller vs mouse is better, if it is either way then use it....
A mouse has felt a certain way to every person on the planet while growing up. There isn't a mouse user on FPS that has ever wanted software to interfere with her/his physical mouse movements.
Many of us play DUST on PS3 and have even BOUGHT a PS3 because of its mouse and keyboard availability for a CCP product.
Start polling the top players on the kill charts and what control scheme they even use. This arguement is moot purely on that point(its ds3), Why alienate, impede and restart every mouse user's learning curve for any FPS ,ever... for the sake of a endless arguement and biased review of it ? |
Freyar Tarkin
Escapist Magazine
100
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 00:59:00 -
[104] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:This is NOT a debate if a controller vs mouse is better, if it is either way then use it....
A mouse has felt a certain way to every person on the planet while growing up. There isn't a mouse user on FPS that has ever wanted software to interfere with her/his physical mouse movements.
Many of us play DUST on PS3 and have even BOUGHT a PS3 because of its mouse and keyboard availability for a CCP product.
Start polling the top players on the kill charts and what control scheme they even use. This arguement is moot purely on that point(its ds3), Why alienate, impede and restart every mouse user's learning curve for any FPS ,ever... for the sake of a endless arguement and biased review of it ?
Because internet, sir. |
Selinate deux
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
53
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 01:02:00 -
[105] - Quote
Crazed Capitalist wrote:Selinate deux wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Selinate deux wrote:Use a dualshock.
If keyboard and mouse players got their controls unhindered, they'd be massacring everyone in every game and would make the game unplayable for those who don't really care to pull out a keyboard and mouse to play a PS3 game. No. Then quit, you dumbass. You're playing on the PS3, not your computer. The PS3 has had M/KB support you idiot, claiming it's on console doesn't matter.
Can't do it on BF3 or COD without essentially bypassing the original limits of the game and buying extra equipment, and it completely ruins the game for everybody else, so of course it matters.
If you can't cut it with a dualshock or the current limits on the mouse and keyboard, quit like the idiot that you are and go play an FPS on the PC. Letting you play with a huge advantage over everyone who doesn't use a mouse and keyboard, but rather the controller that comes with the PS3 is just asinine. |
Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
100
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 01:07:00 -
[106] - Quote
Selinate deux wrote:Crazed Capitalist wrote:Selinate deux wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Selinate deux wrote:Use a dualshock.
If keyboard and mouse players got their controls unhindered, they'd be massacring everyone in every game and would make the game unplayable for those who don't really care to pull out a keyboard and mouse to play a PS3 game. No. Then quit, you dumbass. You're playing on the PS3, not your computer. The PS3 has had M/KB support you idiot, claiming it's on console doesn't matter. Can't do it on BF3 or COD without essentially bypassing the original limits of the game and buying extra equipment, and it completely ruins the game for everybody else, so of course it matters. If you can't cut it with a dualshock or the current limits on the mouse and keyboard, quit like the idiot that you are and go play an FPS on the PC. Letting you play with a huge advantage over everyone who doesn't use a mouse and keyboard, but rather the controller that comes with the PS3 is just asinine.
If CCP didn't want KB/M users in here, they would not have added support for it natively.
As it is, this is a massive bait and switch. Let the people who like controllers use controllers. let the KB/M Users use those. Let the good and bad sort itself out.
I'm GREAT with my KB/M on this.... and while I would have preferred a bit more sensitivity, I was comfortable with what I had.
Making deadzones and bad acceleration? Not cool. |
Deluxe Edition
TeamPlayers EoN.
132
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 01:09:00 -
[107] - Quote
Dust will never be a successfull E-sport without raw input on kb/m, its as simple as that. How far do you want to game to go? |
Freyar Tarkin
Escapist Magazine
100
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 01:11:00 -
[108] - Quote
Selinate deux wrote:Can't do it on BF3 or COD without essentially bypassing the original limits of the game and buying extra equipment, and it completely ruins the game for everybody else, so of course it matters.
If you can't cut it with a dualshock or the current limits on the mouse and keyboard, quit like the idiot that you are and go play an FPS on the PC. Letting you play with a huge advantage over everyone who doesn't use a mouse and keyboard, but rather the controller that comes with the PS3 is just asinine.
Those games didn't advertise support for keyboard and mouse. I don't see why this is such a difficult subject to understand. Support was promised, it's **** poor, and is actually gotten worse with the last update. Regardless of the performance limitations of controller versus keyboard and mouse, the promise was made, and it's not being kept too well right now. |
Kazio De Vihura
Rave Technologies Inc. C0VEN
12
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Posted - 2013.05.07 01:20:00 -
[109] - Quote
mouse is broken if l turn smoth off on 20 sensitivity it move to fast realy fast if smoth is on 100 % and move very very Slow
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Crazed Capitalist
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 01:22:00 -
[110] - Quote
Selinate deux wrote:Crazed Capitalist wrote:Selinate deux wrote:Zyrus Amalomyn wrote:Selinate deux wrote:Use a dualshock.
If keyboard and mouse players got their controls unhindered, they'd be massacring everyone in every game and would make the game unplayable for those who don't really care to pull out a keyboard and mouse to play a PS3 game. No. Then quit, you dumbass. You're playing on the PS3, not your computer. The PS3 has had M/KB support you idiot, claiming it's on console doesn't matter. Can't do it on BF3 or COD without essentially bypassing the original limits of the game and buying extra equipment, and it completely ruins the game for everybody else, so of course it matters. If you can't cut it with a dualshock or the current limits on the mouse and keyboard, quit like the idiot that you are and go play an FPS on the PC. Letting you play with a huge advantage over everyone who doesn't use a mouse and keyboard, but rather the controller that comes with the PS3 is just asinine.
Why does BF3 or COD matter? Those re different games. Games that did not take advantage of the support the PS3 offered. It's not my fault you want to be an idiot and purposefully use a ****** control interface when you could easily upgrade. IF Dust doesn't want Mouse users, then don't support it, but don't claim to offer support then just cap the hell out of it |
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hershman001
Creepers Corp. Creepers Alliance
79
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 01:24:00 -
[111] - Quote
I still get an speed curve where when i lower the acceleration the mouse actually moved faster....
was really hoping you guys could of at least fixed the controls in uprising |
XiBravo
TeamPlayers EoN.
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 01:52:00 -
[112] - Quote
Kb/m is the reason I picked this game up, now I |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
188
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Posted - 2013.05.07 07:43:00 -
[113] - Quote
Could we get a dev response in here about this issue ?
Its pretty much a game breaker for anyone who plays KB/M and pretty much invalidates any skill we have with that input type, i rather have them take away KB/M support and stop advertizing it then what we got now.
No sane KB/M player will sit trough this garbage where our aim is thrown off by having X & Y axises run at diffrent speeds coupled with acceleration.
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Drommy Hood
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
271
|
Posted - 2013.05.07 07:52:00 -
[114] - Quote
The day they confirmed m/kb was the day I knew we'd always end up at this point. They should have not have given you the biscuit to take it away again; that was wrong. But they where wronger to have given you a clear advantage over ds3 in the first place |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
207
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Posted - 2013.05.07 07:53:00 -
[115] - Quote
Crazed Capitalist wrote:General Sideboob wrote:Nope. Now you are same as the rest of us. Suck it. but if the mouse inputs are genuinely messed up, the controller users now have an advantage
All speeds should be about the same no matter the input. If they are different because of the input device then it is broken. |
AskuII Legend
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
26
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Posted - 2013.05.07 08:02:00 -
[116] - Quote
In this game, help aiming too low ... It is only a hindrance. If people think - it helps. They are fools! I play without help - it is more usual for me. CCP did the right thing. 90% of the players - cannon fodder. So they are somehow able to resist the users keyboard and mouse. A gamepad, and even more so. This is really balance. Get used to it, my frags on the keyboard and mouse, your time is up! Google Translate |
Bubba Brown
Militaires Sans Jeux
36
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Posted - 2013.05.07 08:04:00 -
[117] - Quote
i'm totally cool with the mouse speed limit, that's completely fine for me. keeps things from becoming too twitch based
what i am NOT COOL with is the ******** mismatch between horizontal and vertical sensitivity.
seriously, draw a circle with your mouse, you character will look around IN AN ELIPSE, it's really awful in combat because you constantly jerk upwards or downwards too far. |
Drommy Hood
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
271
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Posted - 2013.05.07 08:07:00 -
[118] - Quote
Bubba Brown wrote:i'm totally cool with the mouse speed limit, that's completely fine for me. keeps things from becoming too twitch based
what i am NOT COOL with is the ******** mismatch between horizontal and vertical sensitivity.
seriously, draw a circle with your mouse, you character will look around IN AN ELIPSE, it's really awful in combat because you constantly jerk upwards or downwards too far.
Maybe it's ccp's way of saying stop head shotting everything with your mouse. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
190
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Posted - 2013.05.07 08:22:00 -
[119] - Quote
Drommy Hood wrote:Bubba Brown wrote:i'm totally cool with the mouse speed limit, that's completely fine for me. keeps things from becoming too twitch based
what i am NOT COOL with is the ******** mismatch between horizontal and vertical sensitivity.
seriously, draw a circle with your mouse, you character will look around IN AN ELIPSE, it's really awful in combat because you constantly jerk upwards or downwards too far. Maybe it's ccp's way of saying stop head shotting everything with your mouse.
Right because headshots always happen without effort right....
I can still bypass the turn speed limits by upping my mouse DPI up, currently ive been playing since open beta with 1400 dpi, and my mouse goes up to 6400 dpi, so i can still adjust my turn limit to be 5 times more then this.
And my mouse sports dual axis input support so i can filter out most of the axis imbalance but it still feels very off even when the up down axis is at 1500 dpi and left right at 2000 dpi.
And appart from the mouse acceleration, It feels like my mouse drives the controller that in its turn drives the game, causing massive input lag.
Also when i have nothing in my sights, movement seems better, when i get someone moving in front of me, the input slows down regardless of aim assist on or off.
Ive tried pretty much all settings on my mouse and i cannot get it anywhere near a "normal" level of operation, it feels like all of a sudden you get pulled over by cops that give me a ticket for driving my car with my hands, witch is now illegal and i should use my feet from now on.
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Drommy Hood
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
271
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Posted - 2013.05.07 08:31:00 -
[120] - Quote
Rei Shepard wrote:Drommy Hood wrote:Bubba Brown wrote:i'm totally cool with the mouse speed limit, that's completely fine for me. keeps things from becoming too twitch based
what i am NOT COOL with is the ******** mismatch between horizontal and vertical sensitivity.
seriously, draw a circle with your mouse, you character will look around IN AN ELIPSE, it's really awful in combat because you constantly jerk upwards or downwards too far. Maybe it's ccp's way of saying stop head shotting everything with your mouse. Right because headshots always happen without effort right.... I can still bypass the turn speed limits by upping my mouse DPI up, currently ive been playing since open beta with 1400 dpi, and my mouse goes up to 6400 dpi, so i can still adjust my turn limit to be 5 times more then this. And my mouse sports dual axis input support so i can filter out most of the axis imbalance but it still feels very off even when the up down axis is at 1500 dpi and left right at 2000 dpi. And appart from the mouse acceleration, It feels like my mouse drives the controller that in its turn drives the game, causing massive input lag. Also when i have nothing in my sights, movement seems better, when i get someone moving in front of me, the input slows down regardless of aim assist on or off. Ive tried pretty much all settings on my mouse and i cannot get it anywhere near a "normal" level of operation, it feels like all of a sudden you get pulled over by cops that give me a ticket for driving my car with my hands, witch is now illegal and i should use my feet from now on.
I honestly think its because ccp think they've made a mistake with including kb/m in battle. They bowed to pressure on it when there was very little players to drum up support.
Now they've realised there mistake, they can't take it out? They promised it. So rather than remove it, they've made it useless (ie no benefit over using a ds3).
They couldn't stop people from using it by lowering the speeds ect, because people just turn them back up again, limiting the max speed still does not limit the factoring issue either, the major issue with kb/m vs ds3 was never speed, it was control. So they have limited your control |
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