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Garrett Blacknova
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2713
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Posted - 2013.05.06 22:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Turn speed cap is legit.
All the controls feel way different. Oddly, I can get precision aim with my sixaxis when there are no enemies nearby, but if there's a guy in my face, my aim swings wildly all over the place when I try to line him up. It's like turning auto-aim off turns a reverse auto-aim on instead. Might have to try turning it on and see if that fixes things and lets me aim normally. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2713
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Posted - 2013.05.06 23:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
For the game to actually be playable on sixaxis, there NEEDS to be a turn speed cap applied to mouse users, just like there's one built in to the other control schemes the game uses.
It's FAIR and LEGITIMATE to limit turn speed.
The controls are botched for other reasons, but this isn't a problem, it's part of the game's balance. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2717
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Posted - 2013.05.06 23:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Turn speed being capped is a stupid idea in general, for controller or mouse.
How do you insta-spin with a controller?
Pro-tip: YOU CAN'T.
The way the sixaxis controller operates IS A BUILT-IN TURN SPEED LIMIT. Mouse turning shouldn't be faster than the sixaxis can manage.
Mouse users have their controls screwed up, I'll agree with that. But the turn speed limit was always MEANT to be there, it was a glitch people were exploiting to circumvent it in Chromosome. Sixaxis controls are screwed now as well, though not as badly as some of the issues with the mouse. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2717
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Posted - 2013.05.06 23:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Drogan Reeth wrote:General Sideboob wrote:Fact of the matter is all the KBM dorks thought they had skills because the rest of us were too lazy to plug a mouse in and went with the DS3 instead.
Now CCP has told them they don't have skills, and made the playing field more even. Ha ha ha. Kiss it bro. You gonna get tore in half now unless you learn to play. Hijacking ppl's controllers does not mean they don't have skill. It means you are a ****. Imagine a game company made a racing game and said you can use a racing wheel if you like, but if you do a random person will appear and punch you in the face while you are driving to make up for the fact that wheel is better then a joystick.
They're hijacking sixaxis controller functionality as well. There are issues, there are elements of control that need to be fixed for EVERY scheme (still... only properly fixed this time, instead of being made merely a different kind of terrible), nobody's going to dispute that with any validity. But the turn speed cap is a valid balance mechanic. You can still get max turn speed without loss of precision, but you CAN'T turn faster than a sixaxis controller is able to turn.
That doesn't mean that mouse control isn't screwed, and I think it's screwed by one of the problems that screws sixaxis players too - turn acceleration. Trying to hold a steady turning rate ISN'T POSSIBLE NOW. Holding your right stick on a steady angle or moving the mouse at a constant speed results in rapidly increasing turn speed instead of a stable rate of rotation. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2718
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Posted - 2013.05.07 00:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lasarte Ioni wrote:It's not a matter of skill
Lets imagine a aim skill scale (0-10)
All numbers are made up btw.
On DS3 you can improve your aim to say.... 5 in 1 year of playing FPS
On mouse you can improve your aim to a little more lets say 6
5 years later, the DS3 player got the 7 and the DS3 can't go further (he has to use tactics to improve, because he can't improve aim-wise)
Mouse meanwhile sits at 10 and is wondering when 10K DPI mouses will be available so he can get the 12 out of 10.
So the mouse player is gonna headshot 5 times while the DS3 player gets 1 and some body hits; that is called unfair play. Making mouse slow is the logic step, but it feels weird since no PC FPS feels the need to do it mainly because it's stupid since everyone is using M/KB
Actually, if you're willing to turn sensitivity down on the sixaxis controller, you CAN get up to 10 accuracy, but it costs turn speed to do it.
Mouse can have 10 accuracy and 10 turn speed. Sixaxis is capped at at 17 total between the two. Max turn speed means loss of accuracy, max accuracy means loss of turn speed. Increasing skill with the sixaxis controller generally means that you can turn the sensitivity higher without missing, whereas with a mouse, you find a comfortable sensitivity, and learn to scale both up.
With DUST having a turn speed cap, this means that mouse users get limited to about 8 turn speed - maximum the game allows, but retain the potential, with the right sensitivity for the player, and the controls actually working competently, for 10 accuracy with it. Still ahead of sixaxis. The mouse user will still have a SLIGHT edge in turn speed OR a SLIGHT edge in accuracy over a top-tier player, but it won't be an insurmountable obstacle, and you'll have to be a REALLY GOOD mouse user to top the sixaxis player instead of just needing the basic ability to insta-spin which you have in most other current-gen FPS games (and which was the reason UT3 and Shadowrun were terrible multiplatform games). |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2746
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Posted - 2013.05.07 17:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
KA24DERT wrote:1) CCP Needs to unfsck whatever they did to KB/M.
2) KB/M Haters need to get over it. This game is coming to PC eventually and there will be more KB/M users than you can count. A Keyboard and Mouse combo can be had for $20 on Amazon. Your PS3 has USB ports. HTFU or cry about it after the PC version launches.
3) Some of the top players in this game use DS3, so everyone's personal opinions aside, the DS3 is a very competitive option.
1. Yes. They also need to fix what they broke with Sixaxis controls.
2. Source? The game hasn't been announced for PC at any point. Ever. Where are you getting that from? Yes, a lot of idiots here think that "console game" means "don't bother trying to balance the control schemes fairly, just trash the non-standard options", but there are LEGITIMATE reasons why there SHOULD BE A CAPPED TURN SPEED. And it's NOT something unprecedented in PC FPS games.
3. It is when you're not up against people exploiting the glitches in the previous build which allowed for extra vehicle speed using the kayboard, and when you're not up against people exploiting a variable-DPI mouse to break the turn speed restriction, anyway. Those problems have been fixed, but more have been introduced that tipped the scales too far the other way.
A turn speed cap is stil THE ONLY VALID WAY TO BALANCE THE CONTROL SCHEMES. THAT ISN'T THE PROBLEM.
-Mouse gets almost-constant input lag. Sixaxis gets occasional input lag. Mouse is a worse control option.
-Mouse aim with acceleration is actually unplayable. Sixaxis acceleration is only a problem for certain players, and can be adapted to - to a certain degree. Mouse is a worse control option, but Sixaxis is also worse than it was.
-Mouse control has no ability to select equipment properly, and is similarly incapable of proper selection of vehicle modules. Sixaxis feels slightly different when doing this, but isn't any worse. Mouse is a worse control option, but Sixaxis is still in need of improvement.
THESE are legitimate problems, and they're problems with BOTH control schemes, NOT JUST MOUSE AND KEYBOARD. |
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