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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
da GAND
Reaper Galactic
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 21:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
thnx |
shade emry3
Conspiratus Immortalis League of Infamy
19
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 21:36:00 -
[62] - Quote
So am I to understand that all militia bpo's will no longer be available? |
Argo Filch
BetaMax. CRONOS.
15
|
Posted - 2013.05.04 21:40:00 -
[63] - Quote
I know i will sound like an ungrateful bastard down the line, that's why i'm saying this first: I really really appreciate the effort you guys put into making and releasing those data dumps for us. 3rd party devs will really be grateful for this stuff and hopefully will make great tools from them.
That said... well... the first try is nice and all... but there's a bunch of issues with those two files you released.
First, the Skill_Tree.xlsx . Yes... its nice and pretty... but in the end pretty useless, because you can't really extract any meaningful data from it. Sure i can copy the data in an excel sheet and tabularize it but if i have to do it myself well then why have an xslx file to begin with. You could just release that thing as a pretty image to show people.
The most needed information this document doesn't even provide. Like what these skills actually do (bonuses) and what rank you need to get the next ones in the tree. A tabular presentation for 3rd party devs with a parent column that shows the relation between the skills and a rank column would have been really nice.
I even looked into that xslx file with an editor to check if there's any salvageable data one could programmatically extract, but there's really nothing there.
Second, the more usable dust_market_items.csv file. This file has a bunch of interesting and usable information. But this file is really missing a few crucial things and has some issues.
1. Its Category column needs to be populated for all items, not just for the skillbooks. Would be really nice to have the different categories show up in that column like Assault Rifles, Shotguns, Shield Extenders, Shield Regulators, et cetera.
2. It needs a Group column that holds a more general information on what kind of Item it is. For example an entry for Skills that groups all the skill book items, or an entry for Dropsuits, Vehicles, Weapons (Infantry), Weapons (Vehicle), Modules (Dropsuits), Modules (Vehicles), Equipment, Low Powered Modules, and so forth. So all infantry weapons would be grouped under Weapons (Infantry). This would make it easier for people to sort and present the data. As it is now, if i want to make real use of the data i have to add this manually. EVE already has those two column types, but there it's reversed. Group is the more specific and Category the more general classification.
3. There needs to be two new columns that reference the skills (could use the typeID of the skillsbooks in that list) needed for specific items and what rank that skills needs for it to be usable. Right now this information isn't present in this file atm. E.g. the 'Viziam Laser Rifle' needs typeID 353465 with a rank of 4 (don't actually know if that's true) to be usable. This information is needed so developers can present for example their users a way to only see equipment they can actually use. Would also need to put that data in it manually to make this kind of functionality. Those two columns would also relativize the need for a Skills_tree file. And right now i think there's not really a item or skills that needs two prerequisites so a simple parent<->child relation would suffice. If that's not the case we'd need a cross-referencing table to present that data.
4. Putting unit labels after numeric values completely kills any kind chance to import that data into database columns of other types then string. Or have any kind of use for it in a spreadsheet application. You just can't add '80 HP' from the Armor Bonus column of some Plates to the '150 HP' from the Armor column of some Dropsuit. You have to remove that HP unit label to be able to use the data. Why not rename the column to Armor (HP), Armor Bonus (HP) so you know what kind of unit it is but the data in that column would still be usable. What i really want to do with this csv file is to import it into a database... but atm i'd have to manually search and replace every unit label in every column with an empty string to get the actual numeric value to import into a database.
This brings me to point 5. You have Data in columns that really belong split into two columns. For example the column Scan Precision. For Dropsuits it has values with dB units and for Precision Enhancers you have a percentage value. This data really really needs to be split into two columns. You can't even save that stuff in a meaningful way in a database the way it is atm. Shield Recharge Delay is another example of this, as is Shield Depleted Recharge Delay, Scan Profile, Shield Bonus, PG Bonus, et cetera.
Those are the things that caught my eye in the first few minutes of looking into those files.
I hope those issues get looked at when there's a bit spare time on hand for the guy making the files in the first place. Who was that actually?
Thanks for reading this stuff :) |
Khamelaya
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:20:00 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Frame wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Since i have 90day of boosters (active/passive) queued up will they remain still queued up and untouched? Yes. All consumed boosters stay consumed and unchanged :)
I am not happy about this. I have over 120 days of injected boosters (which I have not already gained any SP from) that will apparently not be refunded. Why on earth would I want 50% booster when you now have 100% boosters?. Yes I can buy the new Omega boosters and they will be added to the front of the queue, but this means that the 120 days worth of boosters already injected will NEVER be used!!!!!
The only way to use the booster I already have is to actually gain less SP for three months?????? Seriously, WTF??? |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium
557
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 00:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
Khamelaya wrote:CCP Frame wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Since i have 90day of boosters (active/passive) queued up will they remain still queued up and untouched? Yes. All consumed boosters stay consumed and unchanged :) I am not happy about this. I have over 120 days of injected boosters (which I have not already gained any SP from) that will apparently not be refunded. Why on earth would I want 50% booster when you now have 100% boosters?. Yes I can buy the new Omega boosters and they will be added to the front of the queue, but this means that the 120 days worth of boosters already injected will NEVER be used!!!!! The only way to use the booster I already have is to actually gain less SP for three months?????? Seriously, WTF???
My personal policy is to never buy or inject more than a month's worth of anything when a game is in beta just to avoid these kinds of issues.
|
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:17:00 -
[66] - Quote
Arron Rift wrote:
Will these still be attached to my account after Uprising, or will they be refunded for their current AUR cost so I can go buy them again?
It seems to me that this has been answered in the blog, and that you will receive the AUR price required to repurchase them should you wish to. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:20:00 -
[67] - Quote
Eskel Bondfree wrote: CCP Eterne, can you confirm that all instances of militia BPOs that a player owns will be refunded at current market prices? Because it would be very dissapointing if that was the case.
I asked a related question in this thread, and it has been answered. It is not *current* prices, as in the prices they are now, but the prices that they will be with Uprising:
CCP Eterne wrote: It means the prices at the time of deployment. If we have changed any prices, those will be the prices used.
And with regards to,
Quote: Making ISK from market opportunities that arise in Eve/Dust is all fine and good. But giving out AUR worth thousands of real life $$ to players just because they bought a stack of militia BPOs for the price of a single merc-pack in January definitely crosses a line.
I see no problem with this. This is well within the style of EVE. Of course, I'm one who is in line to benefit from this, but even if I was not I'd be thinking, "crap, why didn't I take advantage of this myself??" rather than, "crap, I didn't think of this myself, it's not fair!". |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:25:00 -
[68] - Quote
Rich o wrote: Now I'm confused. I.e. the Balac's GAR-21 AR is an officer weapon and will be returned to our inventory. due to QA while the Dev Blog states that all ISK-items will be removed and the excel-sheet in the link clearly shows an ISK-value of 126.495 for the Balac.
So my question is: will officer weapons be purchaseable? Dev Blog and spread sheet say yes but QA says no.
This is not an official answer, and maybe CCP can confirm for you, but in EVE Online many items with no NPC market value have a hidden value like this. It's just an estimate of its market value, even if no NPC actually sells it. I would be very surprised if you lose any of your officer gear just because the spreadsheet lists an ISK value.
I would be even more surprised if these items appeared for sale by NPC's with Uprising. That just wouldn't fit with the way CCP has run EVE Online. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 01:35:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote: It means the prices at the time of deployment. If we have changed any prices, those will be the prices used.
With regards to the following, I cannot complain, since I purchased mine on the cheap. And this post is probably too quick since it is based on an assumption that BPO prices are going to be lowered in Uprising (that's my expectation). But here goes anyway. Some people have purchased, for example, blueprints for 19,800 AUR (or whatever it is), thinking along the lines "it's quite expensive, but I do use it a lot. I can afford maybe one bpo, so I'll make it the dropsuit".
Now suppose that the price is permanently lowered by half in Uprising, when not on sale. This person is refunded around 10k AUR. Now, post patch, this person finds that in CCP's pursuit of finding that sweet spot pricing, he's paid twice the real world money for the same item as others (or alternatively, they get two for the price of one). That is their reward for trusting the pricing structure, and supporting the game during beta. I don't imagine these people will be happy.
Of course, as I said, this is based on the assumption that prices go down. And again, I can't complain much, as I paid the cheap price. And I understand the reasoning. The customer agreed on a price with CCP, and received goods. CCP is now giving them a currency which allows them to get exactly that item back, or use the AUR for something different (added value!). And if any AUR prices go up, you can't reimburse them the pre-patch prices, because then they won't receive enough AUR to replace their goods. So post patch pricing makes the most sense from this perspective.
So I see the reasoning, and I can't complain, but I suspect some will be unhappy if I am right about a significant BPO price drop (and as a guess, I wouldn't be surprised if you divide BPO costs by 10!). It seems a bit rough for that crowd that purchased these expensive BPO's, and now finds that their reward for beta support is to have others given a cheaper price. But we shall see, after Monday, I suppose. |
Rorian Gray
HavoK Core RISE of LEGION
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 03:13:00 -
[70] - Quote
I'm really hoping the fact I'm the first to complain means I just overlooked it, but that CSV file seems to be missing PG/CPU requirements for all items. Any chance CCP can get us access to that data before the patch? Or anyone have a source to something gleaned from elsewhere they'd be willing to share? |
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Adstellarum
G I A N T EoN.
49
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:34:00 -
[71] - Quote
I just did a quick calculation and for a Proto logi in current build in the Uprising build will need at least 13,991,400 sp now that is with proto hives/injector, proto rep tool, up to the dropsuit armor upgrades and dropsuit electronics and engineering lvl 5 and dropsuit Shield lvl 5 and 1 weapon of operation to lvl 5 (this assumes all skills before these final skills are also lvl 5) , 14,613,240 with explosives at lvl 5 without even touching the demolitions and grenadier skills |
Khamelaya
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 05:41:00 -
[72] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Khamelaya wrote:CCP Frame wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Since i have 90day of boosters (active/passive) queued up will they remain still queued up and untouched? Yes. All consumed boosters stay consumed and unchanged :) I am not happy about this. I have over 120 days of injected boosters (which I have not already gained any SP from) that will apparently not be refunded. Why on earth would I want 50% booster when you now have 100% boosters?. Yes I can buy the new Omega boosters and they will be added to the front of the queue, but this means that the 120 days worth of boosters already injected will NEVER be used!!!!! The only way to use the booster I already have is to actually gain less SP for three months?????? Seriously, WTF??? My personal policy is to never buy or inject more than a month's worth of anything when a game is in beta just to avoid these kinds of issues.
While I understand your point, and it certainly is a valid one, you could just as easily say "I don't buy stuff with real money in beta just to avoid this kind of issue." or "I don't buy items with ISK in beta just to avoid this kind of issue" or even "I don't participate in betas just to avoid these kinds of issues".
I think that whether or not the booster has been injected or not is a rather arbitrary distinction. I realise that there must be a line drawn to avoid refunding something that's value has already been consumed, for example the extra SP gained from having had the booster active has provided clear value that I will retain after the SP reset and that value should certainly not be refunded.
But the boosters that contribute to the days remaining have not had their value consumed, they have in fact had their value decreased as they are no longer the most valuable use of of that implant slot. They do in fact impose a significant opportunity cost.
After buying a booster, it cannot be traded, it cannot be sold, it can't be used for anything other than being injected. Much the same as the days remaining in the implant queue, they can't be traded or sold. There was absolutely no difference in keeping that time in one form vs another, other than convenience if I happened to forget to inject a new booster after the old one expired. Until now...
Now I am told that one form will be refunded and the other one will not. At least in eve it gives you a warning telling you that, once you inject a booster, it cannot be removed without destroying it.
I find it very frustrating that the very kind of player that CCP wants for this game, those that are willing to spend money and invest themselves long term, are the ones who are going to get the least value out of their investments. |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 06:09:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote: It means the prices at the time of deployment. If we have changed any prices, those will be the prices used.
Now I'm second guessing my interpretation of what you have written here, and it's still not clear to me. Let me give an example. Suppose there's an item that costs 500 AUR now, and it retains that price all the way until the server goes down for Uprising deployment. Then, Uprising comes up, and the item now has a price of 300 AUR. Will a player in possession of this item receive 500 AUR or 300 AUR? |
Eskel Bondfree
DUST University Ivy League
80
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 09:42:00 -
[74] - Quote
Khamelaya wrote: After buying a booster, it cannot be traded, it cannot be sold, it can't be used for anything other than being injected. Much the same as the days remaining in the implant queue, they can't be traded or sold. There was absolutely no difference in keeping that time in one form vs another, other than convenience if I happened to forget to inject a new booster after the old one expired. Until now...
Now I am told that one form will be refunded and the other one will not. At least in eve it gives you a warning telling you that, once you inject a booster, it cannot be removed without destroying it.
No type of boosters will be refunded, not the ones in your assets and not the ones already injected (it's stated in the Dev blog). No reason to be upset, we all have to use up the boosters that we already bought.
|
Khamelaya
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
3
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 09:49:00 -
[75] - Quote
Eskel Bondfree wrote:Khamelaya wrote: After buying a booster, it cannot be traded, it cannot be sold, it can't be used for anything other than being injected. Much the same as the days remaining in the implant queue, they can't be traded or sold. There was absolutely no difference in keeping that time in one form vs another, other than convenience if I happened to forget to inject a new booster after the old one expired. Until now...
Now I am told that one form will be refunded and the other one will not. At least in eve it gives you a warning telling you that, once you inject a booster, it cannot be removed without destroying it.
No type of boosters will be refunded, not the ones in your assets and not the ones already injected (it's stated in the Dev blog). No reason to be upset, we all have to use up the boosters that we already bought.
Indeed you are correct, looks like i misread the part about UVT's being refunded and thought it referred to all boosters.
Guess i'm an idiot then...
|
Sparrow 1
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
0
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 11:07:00 -
[76] - Quote
The skill tree looks good |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
318
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 11:29:00 -
[77] - Quote
Winsaucerer wrote:CCP Eterne wrote: It means the prices at the time of deployment. If we have changed any prices, those will be the prices used.
With regards to the following, I cannot complain, since I purchased mine on the cheap. And this post is probably too quick since it is based on an assumption that BPO prices are going to be lowered in Uprising (that's my expectation). But here goes anyway. Some people have purchased, for example, blueprints for 19,800 AUR (or whatever it is), thinking along the lines "it's quite expensive, but I do use it a lot. I can afford maybe one bpo, so I'll make it the dropsuit". Now suppose that the price is permanently lowered by half in Uprising, when not on sale. This person is refunded around 10k AUR. Now, post patch, this person finds that in CCP's pursuit of finding that sweet spot pricing, he's paid twice the real world money for the same item as others (or alternatively, they get two for the price of one). That is their reward for trusting the pricing structure, and supporting the game during beta. I don't imagine these people will be happy. Of course, as I said, this is based on the assumption that prices go down. And again, I can't complain much, as I paid the cheap price. And I understand the reasoning. The customer agreed on a price with CCP, and received goods. CCP is now giving them a currency which allows them to get exactly that item back, or use the AUR for something different (added value!). And if any AUR prices go up, you can't reimburse them the pre-patch prices, because then they won't receive enough AUR to replace their goods. So post patch pricing makes the most sense from this perspective. So I see the reasoning, and I can't complain, but I suspect some will be unhappy if I am right about a significant BPO price drop (and as a guess, I wouldn't be surprised if you divide BPO costs by 10!). It seems a bit rough for that crowd that purchased these expensive BPO's, and now finds that their reward for beta support is to have others given a cheaper price. But we shall see, after Monday, I suppose. Edit: If this is something to worry about, I suppose the solution would have been to reimburse at pre-patch prices if they are higher, or post patch prices if those are higher. But perhaps that is rather generous, and I am not completely unbiased!
Are you expecting prices to stay the same forever and ever? It is natural that one year ago something costed more, now half of it. In a year it might be a quarter.
One could argue that the one who got it year ago has gotten to use it already for that time. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
318
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 11:30:00 -
[78] - Quote
Eskel Bondfree wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:I asked on IRC if AUR BPO gear would be refunded at the current marketprice as well.
The answer was that it will, so people will get millions of AUR for all of those BPO items they bought back when they were like 100 AUR each. CCP Eterne, can you confirm that all instances of militia BPOs that a player owns will be refunded at current market prices? Because it would be very dissapointing if that was the case. Making ISK from market opportunities that arise in Eve/Dust is all fine and good. But giving out AUR worth thousands of real life $$ to players just because they bought a stack of militia BPOs for the price of a single merc-pack in January definitely crosses a line. I really hope CCP considered that when making their plans for refunding items. Imho, there is no point in refunding more than one BPO of each type, since a player can't use more than one anyway. All extra BPOs were bought clearly with the intent of never using them, so why refund them because of the skill change?
Sounds like plain pure envy. Note that AUR is not real life cash. It is virtual currency bought with real life cash. Thru AUR and PLEX isk is also a virtual currency bought with real life cash. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
318
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 11:30:00 -
[79] - Quote
Adstellarum wrote:I just did a quick calculation and for a Proto logi in current build in the Uprising build will need at least 13,991,400 sp now that is with proto hives/injector, proto rep tool, up to the dropsuit armor upgrades and dropsuit electronics and engineering lvl 5 and dropsuit Shield lvl 5 and 1 weapon of operation to lvl 5 (this assumes all skills before these final skills are also lvl 5) , 14,613,240 with explosives at lvl 5 without even touching the demolitions and grenadier skills
Good, proto stuff was too easy to unlock anyways. |
Baldy bonce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 11:55:00 -
[80] - Quote
What would be the reasoning behind the assault rifle and sub machine gun being the only weapons that require a sharpshooter skill, adding over 900k of required sp to be invested per weapon above the rest of the handheld weapons? is this just a mistake on the spread sheet?
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Eskel Bondfree
DUST University Ivy League
80
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 12:02:00 -
[81] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Sounds like plain pure envy. Note that AUR is not real life cash. It is virtual currency bought with real life cash. Thru AUR and PLEX isk is also a virtual currency bought with real life cash.
Yes, I guess it does and it probably is to some extent. But my point was that the magnitude at which people would gain AUR is simply way out of proportion (maybe I should re-word my original post to that).
And there is the difference that similar opportunities in EVE arise out of the actions of other players on the in-game market, triggered by the changes made to the game. In this case however, it is a direct intervention by CCP. And they would be generating millions of AUR out of thin air, as opposed to EVE where every plex you buy on the market was paid in cash by another player (not to mention that there is no ISK to AUR transfer in DUST yet). |
Winsaucerer
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
51
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 12:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:
Are you expecting prices to stay the same forever and ever? It is natural that one year ago something costed more, now half of it. In a year it might be a quarter.
One could argue that the one who got it year ago has gotten to use it already for that time.
No, I am not expecting prices to stay the same forever and ever. Why do you ask? |
GOTDUST
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 14:41:00 -
[83] - Quote
The ONLY way to make dust 514 one with eve is to make items them same price as eve. Meaning we would need higher payouts in battles. Right now I have around 500k in unused AUR gear. I better have 500k tomorrow or im done with this game. I think its dirty of CCP to only allow MERC PACK resets for prior purchases before Jan. What about all the 20k vouchers? I have a feeling there will be a LOT of pissed off players tomorrow. I don't think im willing to invest 2 more months just to unlock the one suit I use. FK THAT! 14mill sp. The 11mill sp I have now wont even unlock it. I guess we will know tomorrow. It was nice knowing you guys! |
Parson Atreides
Ahrendee Mercenaries
268
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 15:42:00 -
[84] - Quote
GOTDUST wrote:CCP to only allow MERC PACK resets for prior purchases before Jan. What about all the 20k vouchers? I have a feeling there will be a LOT of pissed off players tomorrow. I don't think im willing to invest 2 more months just to unlock the one suit I use. FK THAT! 14mill sp. The 11mill sp I have now wont even unlock it. I guess we will know tomorrow. It was nice knowing you guys!
You can't complain about both the lack of a reset for players who purchased merc packs after January and the high SP price of the new skills. If the SP is so high, then you wouldn't accept a reset anyway, and if the merc pack/Aur reset was so important to you, then you wouldn't be complaining about the couple months it's going to take just to get a few million more SP, because it would take a lot longer than that to get the 11 million you have now back after they reset it to 0.
Also 11 million SP unlocks any suit easily if you go directly into it. I'm not sure where you're getting 14 million from. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
BetaMax. CRONOS.
52
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 16:17:00 -
[85] - Quote
Why "Gallente LAV" skill is required to skill-up "Gallente HAV"? EVE summer expansion is all about not forcing people to skill ships they don't want in path of skilling those they want(Today in EVE you need to skill Assault Frigate to be able to fly Heavy Assault Cruiser, but it will be changed soon) . So why here in Dust it not look similar? Why forcing people to skill that LAV in path of HAV? |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
319
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 21:45:00 -
[86] - Quote
Eskel Bondfree wrote:
And there is the difference that similar opportunities in EVE arise out of the actions of other players on the in-game market, triggered by the changes made to the game. In this case however, it is a direct intervention by CCP. And they would be generating millions of AUR out of thin air, as opposed to EVE where every plex you buy on the market was paid in cash by another player (not to mention that there is no ISK to AUR transfer in DUST yet).
Ok, now you made your point better. There's a partial truth in that, emphasizing the difference. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
319
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 22:16:00 -
[87] - Quote
Asking just in case:
Q: Is character RESET (for those early merc pack buyers) account wide?
(Or can you reset only one character? I assume account wide as AUR and merc pack are account-wide assets) |
whitelightning100
LIGHTNING STRIKES CORPORATION
2
|
Posted - 2013.05.05 22:54:00 -
[88] - Quote
will you be able to keep your blueprints or get your AUR back |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
126
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 02:55:00 -
[89] - Quote
Just had a look at the spreadsheet and I can't believe the decisions behind the ability to use different dropsuits.
Dropsuit Command should unlock:
Light
Medium
Heavy
THEN you specialise by race. As it stands after uprising you will see no diversity from match to match as players who want proto gear will only be able to spec into one suit.
Another problem with this is that the little guy gets the sharp end of the stick again. Players with 10mill + SP are going to have no problem getting into a proto suit and proto gear then stomping us as is the current situation. |
Rapidae
Sire 514 Silent Requiem
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.06 08:06:00 -
[90] - Quote
I thought the Merc Pack was supposted to reset when we went alpha ? I reckon the Aurum spend on dropssuits etc is going to be spend ? |
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