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TheSprayNPray2
Arrogance.
EoN.
0
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Posted - 2013.05.01 02:53:00 -
[91] - Quote
yeah, i saw that and was all like  then realized it is a Amarr Ak.0 which im assuming is proto. in other terms it will be impratical for a heavy to run since our gear is so expensive. Supposely they are making suit prices equal if so then i am respecing into heavy!  |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
126
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:00:00 -
[92] - Quote
WAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
I CAN"T KILL A BATTLESHIP IN MY CRUISER!!!!! CCP NERF BATTLESHIPS!!!! I SHOULD BE ABLE TO KILL A BATTLESHIP SOLO WITHOUT RELOADING AT ALL!!!!!
QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ I'M NOT GOING TO STOP THE QQ UNTIL YOU NERF BATTLESHIPS INTO THE GROUND CCP, NERFHAMMER THEM NAO!!!!1!!!!!!!ONE!!!11!!!ELEVEN!!!!!11111!!!!
GET IT?
What do you think CCP's response to this post would've been? |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
242
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:10:00 -
[93] - Quote
Alaika Arbosa wrote:WAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!
I CAN"T KILL A BATTLESHIP IN MY CRUISER!!!!! CCP NERF BATTLESHIPS!!!! I SHOULD BE ABLE TO KILL A BATTLESHIP SOLO WITHOUT RELOADING AT ALL!!!!!
QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ QQ I'M NOT GOING TO STOP THE QQ UNTIL YOU NERF BATTLESHIPS INTO THE GROUND CCP, NERFHAMMER THEM NAO!!!!1!!!!!!!ONE!!!11!!!ELEVEN!!!!!11111!!!!
GET IT?
What do you think CCP's response to this post would've been?
I can tell you what it should've been. But what really happened?
.....
 |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
126
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:13:00 -
[94] - Quote
I will now forever have Guard rapping seared into my brain.
Why? It was hilarious, but why?? |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
265
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:16:00 -
[95] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:ladwar wrote:meh they are the bigger combat threat in the vehicle chain but toe to toe with a LAV turret yea they stand a chance, toe to toe with the Large turret of a HAV your insane. I think heavies should be able to survive just about anything 1v1 (except SG scouts) within the HMG's optimal range short of a small blaster turret mounted LAV, but be able to easily got down to 2-3 infantry depending on their weapons.
so a shotgun does more DPS then large blaster turret or more per shot damage then a large rail turret? if so i want that shotgun really bad. |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
242
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:20:00 -
[96] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Cosgar wrote:ladwar wrote:meh they are the bigger combat threat in the vehicle chain but toe to toe with a LAV turret yea they stand a chance, toe to toe with the Large turret of a HAV your insane. I think heavies should be able to survive just about anything 1v1 (except SG scouts) within the HMG's optimal range short of a small blaster turret mounted LAV, but be able to easily got down to 2-3 infantry depending on their weapons. so a shotgun does more DPS then large blaster turret or more per shot damage then a large rail turret? if so i want that shotgun really bad.
I'm not sure what the damage multiplier for the shotgun is for body or headshots, but it has to be something ungodly to get instagibbed by a one at point blank. Scouts were supposed to be the counter to heavies anyway, but the speed nerf killed any chance of that. If anything knives might work out since the look actually usable in uprising. |
KalOfTheRathi
Talon Strike Force LTD
Orion Empire
384
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:33:00 -
[97] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I'm not sure what the damage multiplier for the shotgun is for body or headshots, but it has to be something ungodly to get instagibbed by a one at point blank. Scouts were supposed to be the counter to heavies anyway, but the speed nerf killed any chance of that. If anything knives might work out since the look actually usable in uprising. Test it out. Pick up a Shotgun and aim it at the head and torso of a friend or some random blue dot when you first drop out of the MCC or inside the MCC. The readout will tell you exactly what the multipliers are.
For example: Scrambler pistol to the head -> 450% efficiency. Aim at the head.
Dead in one shot for scouts, most Assaults and two shots for Logi Bro and Assault Type A. Heavies may require the entire clip. But down they will go. If you don't miss and live long enough to finish the job.
Shotguns would be worth testing. I will do it when I log in tonight. Although the number I have been unable to determine is how many pellets are in the shell. 39HP each when close can add up but knowing the pellet count would make this a lot simpler.
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ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
265
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:35:00 -
[98] - Quote
110%( shield body)/165%(head)/94% armor body/145%head armor 6 rounds per shot max of 46?for proto breach so you could get 655 on shield w/ a head shot and 488 head on armor so it would take 3 shots to takedown the heavy in question with a breach meaning you would have to reload and be a good shoot w/ max skills and at least 2 damage mods. in that same time a large blaster could kill at least 4 of these heavies and rail 5 if all shoots hit possible more depending on fittings. |
Cruor Abominare
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 03:58:00 -
[99] - Quote
Lord-of-the-Dreadfort wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Do you guys know why there are so many heavies in pubs? because there is three other classes filled with scrubs and glass cannon suit designs running toward them in a straight line. its bloated vet heavy egos and given blueberry heavies a false sense of security. we are not a competitive suit at the proto level, we really need support to help us shine. which is fine, I just want to know why im spending double to tripple in isk and sp but dont see more preformance.
becauyse it's an ammar suit and ****. (new conclusion after reading over all the stuff about ammar ships in EVE, seems CCP shafts the ammar whenever they can)
Huh? Wtf have you been reading. Nano Oracles are insanely ridiculous. |
Cruor Abominare
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
11
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 04:06:00 -
[100] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:ladwar wrote:meh they are the bigger combat threat in the vehicle chain but toe to toe with a LAV turret yea they stand a chance, toe to toe with the Large turret of a HAV your insane. I think heavies should be able to survive just about anything 1v1 (except SG scouts) within the HMG's optimal range short of a small blaster turret mounted LAV, but be able to easily got down to 2-3 infantry depending on their weapons.
This is silly.
You basically create a situation in that there is now no reason to run anything besides heavies, because you would need to run 32 v 16 heavies.
The obvious solution is to then just match them in heavies. Welcome to Heavy 514.
They heavy should always be a situational role and clearly be punished outside of its limited role.
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Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
244
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Posted - 2013.05.01 04:11:00 -
[101] - Quote
Cruor Abominare wrote:Cosgar wrote:ladwar wrote:meh they are the bigger combat threat in the vehicle chain but toe to toe with a LAV turret yea they stand a chance, toe to toe with the Large turret of a HAV your insane. I think heavies should be able to survive just about anything 1v1 (except SG scouts) within the HMG's optimal range short of a small blaster turret mounted LAV, but be able to easily got down to 2-3 infantry depending on their weapons. This is silly. You basically create a situation in that there is now no reason to run anything besides heavies, because you would need to run 32 v 16 heavies. The obvious solution is to then just match them in heavies. Welcome to Heavy 514. They heavy should always be a situational role and clearly be punished outside of its limited role.
Have you seen the range on the HMG without SS? That's pretty much what it's going to be after uprising. If you use cover and have another decently equipped guy with you, it shouldn't be a problem since this is a team based game and all that. If they got you cornered, well, you better have your new fitting ready. |
Exmaple Core
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
192
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 04:11:00 -
[102] - Quote
XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:XeroTheBigBoss wrote:Lord-of-the-Dreadfort wrote:Cosgar wrote:I can hear the "OMG! Nerfz Heaviez!" threads being furiously typed now. lol, we heavies will just go hulk mode on them and tell em to shove it where the sun don't shine That is good. Now we won't have to swim across the river of fat boy tears that were drowning these forums daily with their they are so UP posts. Was getting quite sick of those. ah don't forget the hundreds of "HEAVIES ARE OP!!! QQ" threads... Well when they can get over 1000 total HP in a type2 with a strong gun that has the range of a sniper rifle and accuracy of a AR ya I wouldn't call it QQ more like just stating a fact. Than some of you fat boys go around saying how they are so UP yet it's one of the popular suits in the game. If some noob is being attacked and he is by a Supply it's 9-10 the Heavy suit he switches to. Why would he switch to the "weakest UP suit of Dust" That's a Checkm8 we playin Chess.
I jus got dumber.... i has cought da dumb nao |
Exmaple Core
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
192
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 04:14:00 -
[103] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Cosgar wrote:Lord-of-the-Dreadfort wrote:Cosgar wrote:I can hear the "OMG! Nerfz Heaviez!" threads being furiously typed now. lol, we heavies will just go hulk mode on them and tell em to shove it where the sun don't shine Unless they took my advice and made heavies suspectable to AV weapons. hahahaha AV weapons? Not sure if serious. hm.. yea AV nades should work on something with that much hp. that's more then a free fit lav
Da dumb... iz.. da dum da daaa. Exmaple autisim coreee |
Martin0 Brancaleone
Maphia Clan Corporation
CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 06:51:00 -
[104] - Quote
People... 886 hp is only about 70 more than a heavy NOW... you will just need a couple bullets more...
You AR guys are really lame... |
Lord-of-the-Dreadfort
The Lions Guard
113
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:05:00 -
[105] - Quote
Cruor Abominare wrote:Cosgar wrote:ladwar wrote:meh they are the bigger combat threat in the vehicle chain but toe to toe with a LAV turret yea they stand a chance, toe to toe with the Large turret of a HAV your insane. I think heavies should be able to survive just about anything 1v1 (except SG scouts) within the HMG's optimal range short of a small blaster turret mounted LAV, but be able to easily got down to 2-3 infantry depending on their weapons. This is silly. You basically create a situation in that there is now no reason to run anything besides heavies, because you would need to run 32 v 16 heavies. The obvious solution is to then just match them in heavies. Welcome to Heavy 514. They heavy should always be a situational role and clearly be punished outside of its limited role.
i detect an AR user who believes he should be able to 1v1 anything |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
249
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:17:00 -
[106] - Quote
Better buy stock in Preparation-H, there's going to be a lot of butthurt on May 14th. |
Snagman 313
Carbon 7
45
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 07:53:00 -
[107] - Quote
Rejoice my Heavy brothers and sisters!!!
Once more we shall be feared on the battlefield!
Like the times of legend in Replication the shriek of our HMG's will send shivers down the spine of anyone foolish enough to come into close range. I will no longer stand fast behind cover, I will march unto the breach and visit destruction upon our enemies.
The reaper will sail on a river of tears by our hands and the QQing will fall on deaf ears as for the last 6 months the nerfhammer has been brought to bear on the Heavy. But we endured my brethren we held the line, we stood against the HAV's, we marched over the deadmans land under the threat of Viziams and Redliners and we would not go quietly!!!
Terror is returning to the battle and it is THE HEAVY!!!!
Snagman 313 |
Lord-of-the-Dreadfort
The Lions Guard
113
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:34:00 -
[108] - Quote
Snagman 313 wrote:Rejoice my Heavy brothers and sisters!!!
Once more we shall be feared on the battlefield!
Like the times of legend in Replication the shriek of our HMG's will send shivers down the spine of anyone foolish enough to come into close range. I will no longer stand fast behind cover, I will march unto the breach and visit destruction upon our enemies.
The reaper will sail on a river of tears by our hands and the QQing will fall on deaf ears as for the last 6 months the nerfhammer has been brought to bear on the Heavy. But we endured my brethren we held the line, we stood against the HAV's, we marched over the deadmans land under the threat of Viziams and Redliners and we would not go quietly!!!
Terror is returning to the battle and it is THE HEAVY!!!!
Snagman 313
lol, +1 |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
251
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:35:00 -
[109] - Quote
Almost got me pumped enough to play heavy. |
Acturus Galaxy
Horizons' Edge
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 08:42:00 -
[110] - Quote
I will be playing in mililtia until they add the Gallante heavy dropsuit and save my SP. I will surely miss my forge gun and heavy machine gun. Hope it wont be too long before the rest of the heavy dropsuits are added. |
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1099
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Posted - 2013.05.01 08:59:00 -
[111] - Quote
Acturus Galaxy wrote:I will be playing in mililtia until they add the Gallante heavy dropsuit and save my SP. I will surely miss my forge gun and heavy machine gun. Hope it wont be too long before the rest of the heavy dropsuits are added.
CCP's idea of SoonGäó = 4-6 months |
Cosgar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
251
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:01:00 -
[112] - Quote
You'll be lucky to get it by the end of 2014 |
Lord-of-the-Dreadfort
The Lions Guard
113
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 09:14:00 -
[113] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:You'll be lucky to get it by the end of 2014
yeah.....DEV notes and stuff would be nice
*looks around for a dev or CPM*
nope |
Acturus Galaxy
Horizons' Edge
9
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 10:15:00 -
[114] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Acturus Galaxy wrote:I will be playing in mililtia until they add the Gallante heavy dropsuit and save my SP. I will surely miss my forge gun and heavy machine gun. Hope it wont be too long before the rest of the heavy dropsuits are added. CCP's idea of SoonGäó = 4-6 months
You are probably right, will go for a Gallente logi instead and forget about the heavy for now, have been playing exclusively heavy until today. It is about time I try something different and I cannot skill into the Amar heavy again now that I know a Gallente heavy will be implemented soonGäó |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2013.05.01 10:22:00 -
[115] - Quote
Acturus Galaxy wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Acturus Galaxy wrote:I will be playing in mililtia until they add the Gallante heavy dropsuit and save my SP. I will surely miss my forge gun and heavy machine gun. Hope it wont be too long before the rest of the heavy dropsuits are added. CCP's idea of SoonGäó = 4-6 months You are probably right, will go for a Gallente logi instead and forget about the heavy for now, have been playing exclusively heavy until today. It is about time I try something different and I cannot skill into the Amar heavy again now that I know a Gallente heavy will be implemented soonGäó
That is the right mindset TBH.
You can either hold on to your SP and be at a disadvantage for 3-6 months then have an advantage, or you can spend it on something else and be on even grounds when the new suits are released. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
Noir. Mercenary Group
559
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:10:00 -
[116] - Quote
I like the idea of giving heavies their original HP back. This will work well with the new lack of SS skill. Before, a Heavy could exchange fire from pretty decent distances. Now w/o the SS skill, the slower heavy will need to cross open areas without cover to close the distance against opponents to be able to get into range. This means there will be more scenarios where they have to "eat" a ton of damage before they can effectively attack.
Ultimately, I think this will balance out their strengths/weaknesses throughout a map, but also make the even MORE deadly in CQC... where they will have more HP, and the loss of SS wouldn't have affected them anyway. This should make the higher level Heavies effective against Proto level assault. (which they currently aren't) |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
532
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 12:55:00 -
[117] - Quote
In case anyone was curious I real quick checked max HP using hyrdraSlav's fitting tool.
Current max goes 1537 EHP (in video) vs 1355 EHP (current VK1) vs 1365 EHP (current VK0).
I'm a bit fuzzy on this but I think we've seen a possibility of passive skill to increase output of extender mods as well? Assuming this was 25% maxed it would account for an additional 49.5 Shield (198 from 3 complex extenders divided by 4). Other reasons could make up the rest of that difference, changes to plates, an added low slot, so on, so forth. |
Fargen Icehole
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
85
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 13:34:00 -
[118] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:
I welcome the buff. It'll be nice to actually not be at a disadvantage against proto assault users in a 1v1. |
Jayquan18
The Southern Legion
RISE of LEGION
56
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 14:10:00 -
[119] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:
Thanks for posting that video. I got to a little bit of the uprising build. |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
534
|
Posted - 2013.05.01 14:57:00 -
[120] - Quote
Fargen Icehole wrote:
I welcome the buff. It'll be nice to actually not be at a disadvantage against proto assault users in a 1v1.
We already technically are from the stuff people are complaining about.
Damage discussion
Weaponry supposedly no longer improves base damage. (proficiency still exists but one thing at a time).
So this impacted both players. AR and HMG (obviously). However because of the AR's accuracy it hit with that full advantage right off the bat. The HMG in most situations needed some spin up to compete.
Think of it like this. You have two players standing X distance away. One AR, one HMG. Both begin firing. Due to spin-up the HMG begins at a lower DPS caused by missed shots. The AR starts immediately at full damage. Now we know the HMG is capable of higher DPS in ideal situations. This one is ideal so imagine a nice graph of the increase in DPS as the bullets tighten up. Eventually it surpasses the AR.
Now let's add back in that 15% damage from weaponry (we're ignoring modules btw). Now the HMG is capable of even greater damage compared to the AR. The peak HMG DPS on the graph went up. However the AR's went up as well. The starting DPS of the HMG also went up but because it is percentage based, it wouldn't have gone up as much.
What does this mean? It means when you are increasing DPS on a percentage base and compare a weapon that needs a second to to reach peak damage compared to one with flat return, the amount of damage you will take before you overtake the enemies DPS just went up.
let's restate this though. So let's imagine the graph again. Say it takes 1 second for the HMG to match the AR for DPS. In that one second the AR did X damage. With Weaponry V that AR now did X * 1.15 Damage. Now that HMG got the same 1.15 multiplier but because at this time his damage done is smaller, the improvement he gets is smaller as a result.
Extra example: Billy and Joe are running a race. Billy is fast and is now at 200m, Joe is slow and now at 100m. They are 100m apart. The coach yells to stop, and for both to double their distance before starting again. Billy is now at 400m and Joe is at 200m. Joe is happy he got the bump but he is now 200m behind Billy instead. This is a rough example but hopefully it gives you the right idea.
Okay so we know that when the HMG and AR hit equal DPS, the AR will have done more total damage because it benefited more from the 15% increase. But now the HMG is faster and can start competing. As soon as the HMG goes over the AR DPS it now benefits more from that 15%. This means the total time to exceed the AR total damage also went down.
The issue right now is that the HMG has trouble existing long enough to outpace the AR. So in those circumstances it means either more health to the heavy (advantage heavy), OR you can reduce the cross over point by reducing total damage output. This also is nice in that it benefits all other classes not able to keep up as well (my exile is not as far behind your duvolle, and my weak logi can live longer).There will still be a moment where the AR is outperforming the HMG but it will be easier to survive till the point where the HMG begins outperforming.
Range discussion
However your probably still upset that the AR has the advantage. And heck the HMG is getting distance nerfed yeah?
Same thing goes (provided sharpshooter affects spread not distance in new build which my understanding is this is the case), but a little different.
So if we look at the Exile vs. the HMG, we see 35 optimal distance versus 35 optimal. Sharpshooter can get you up to 40% distance increase but that won't matter here. However the max range is 78 versus 59. That is nearly a 20m difference, and with 40% increase it is actually a 26.6m difference (starting with 19m). That AR was benefiting more from the same skill that was benefiting us. They will, in fact, be closer to us than before. Let's compare the basic to proto. Duvolle's get an extra 4 optimal and 9 max to range over the exile. Compared to the HMG which gets 4 optimal and 6 max. This is fairly moot but the upgrading to the duvolle would see a larger benefit with the same skillset.
Not only this but because they are forced to engage us at closer ranges our spread won't be as bad and the point of the HMG overtaking the AR's DPS will be reached faster on average because the hit area will be larger to on average.
Whiny idiot discussion
If your still angry that assaults are killing you left and right and that you can't beat them 1v1 then you are clearly looking for an assault suit with more armor and a bigger gun. The solution is to simply play assault because that is quite literally the class you're looking for (and you'll get a fancy equipment slot too, and rely less on those teammates "slowing you down"). Each person has a role, the assault's role is it's own and not done by others. Many people seem to just want to play the big guy with the big gun. Shockingly if you make decisions based on that kind of stuff you won't get optimal results. You can pick what you want for whatever reason just don't complain about it not being what you want when you decided for superficial reasons.
Hopefully I've presented a clear, rational, intelligent argument. However I will say that if the Heavy Suit skill's passive isn't as cool as the others I will turn into an infant and have the biggest hissy fit anyone has every seen. |
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