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I'm lost. Why do people want Merc Pack refunds?

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DS 10 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 108	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:44:00 - [1] - Quote The way I see it is you bought and used a product that benefits you throughout the game. If you purchased skills with SP gained from the booster or Aurum weapons and suits knowing these are limited use items, why should you get a refund? You benefitted from the product as it was intended. Refunding the Merc Pack would essentially give you one for free, right? That doesn't make any sense to me. Please enlighten me.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1020	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:46:00 - [2] - Quote It's not a "refund" DS. Quote: ...Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514 account after each character reset AND for the commercial release *emphasis added That IS the Merc Pack. Whether you think that's an awesome deal or not can be discussed, but it's pretty clear language man.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3274	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:47:00 - [3] - Quote Its a misreading of the terms of sale. Terms goes something like this after boiled down very heavily. You pay us this much You get these items Note: If Reset Then Reissue, No other refunds
Laheon Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 309	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:48:00 - [4] - Quote CCP included in the small print, when buying the merc pack in closed beta, that you'd get aurum back for each SP reset and before commercial release. As the game hasn't been commercially released yet, they want their Aurum back. But that would mean being able to buy SP boosters, and that means gaining two sets of SP boosters for basically the price of one. CCP have categorically ruled out any SP reset, barring something dramatic.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1020	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:49:00 - [5] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Its a misreading of the terms of sale. Terms goes something like this after boiled down very heavily. You pay us this much You get these items Note: If Reset Then Reissue, No other refunds no, it says very clearly that at commercial release you get all the items credited to your account again. It's quoted above, simple language, nothing about requiring resets or refunds. You are the one "misreading" in this particular case. Heck, the ones they sell at Gamestop STILL say this.
DS 10 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 108	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:50:00 - [6] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: It's not a "refund" DS. Quote: ...Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514 account after each character reset AND for the commercial release *emphasis added That IS the Merc Pack. Whether you think that's an awesome deal or not can be discussed, but it's pretty clear language man. If it "doesn't make sense" to you, take it up with CCP, they wrote it not me, but don't get upset at me for wanting to receive what I paid for. Why are people asking for it now? There have been no solid official announcements of commercial release. Just speculation and a dev(?) that unofficial lot said it. Is that why there's such a backlash over it?
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1020	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:51:00 - [7] - Quote Laheon wrote: CCP included in the small print, when buying the merc pack in closed beta, that you'd get aurum back for each SP reset and before commercial release. As the game hasn't been commercially released yet, they want their Aurum back. But that would mean being able to buy SP boosters, and that means gaining two sets of SP boosters for basically the price of one. CCP have categorically ruled out any SP reset, barring something dramatic. it's not "the small print" it's the main selling point of the Merc pack, and was hocked by CCP as such. Nor does it say anything about a "refund" or the commercial release having a "reset" in fact, it specifically delineates between aSP resets and commercial release, implying that they are very separate things.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1020	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:53:00 - [8] - Quote DS 10 wrote: Baal Roo wrote: It's not a "refund" DS. Quote: ...Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514 account after each character reset AND for the commercial release *emphasis added That IS the Merc Pack. Whether you think that's an awesome deal or not can be discussed, but it's pretty clear language man. If it "doesn't make sense" to you, take it up with CCP, they wrote it not me, but don't get upset at me for wanting to receive what I paid for. Why are people asking for it now? There have been no solid official announcements of commercial release. Just speculation and a dev(?) that unofficial lot said it. Is that why there's such a backlash over it? someone asks every few weeks since early January, CCP keeps telling us that "no, we are not yet at official release" but that they will "get back to us" on how exactly the Merc Pack will work. Every time it comes up people who didn't buy it freak out over it and start arguing that the people who bought the Merc Pack shouldn't get the offer because it's too good of a deal, and an argument erupts.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3274	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:53:00 - [9] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Its a misreading of the terms of sale. Terms goes something like this after boiled down very heavily. You pay us this much You get these items Note: If Reset Then Reissue, No other refunds no, it says very clearly that at commercial release you get all the items credited to your account again. It's quoted above, simple language, nothing about requiring resets or refunds. You are the one "misreading" in this particular case. Heck, the ones they sell at Gamestop STILL say this. Well I just clear cut all the fancy words out. This is all what is left afterwards. Secondly Notices are not legal binding.
DS 10 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 108	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:55:00 - [10] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Laheon wrote: CCP included in the small print, when buying the merc pack in closed beta, that you'd get aurum back for each SP reset and before commercial release. As the game hasn't been commercially released yet, they want their Aurum back. But that would mean being able to buy SP boosters, and that means gaining two sets of SP boosters for basically the price of one. CCP have categorically ruled out any SP reset, barring something dramatic. it's not "the small print" it's the main selling point of the Merc pack, and was hocked by CCP as such. Nor does it say anything about a "refund" or the commercial release having a "reset" in fact, it specifically delineates between aSP resets and commercial release, implying that they are very separate things. Do you think it's possible that CCP just reissues everyone that has purchased a Merc Pack? I don't see how they'd differentiate between those who bought packs with the fine print and without.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1818	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:57:00 - [11] - Quote INB4LOCK Seriously people. There are already a bunch of threads on this.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 655	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:58:00 - [12] - Quote They're greedy. CCP honored the spirit of the agreement with the last reset, now people are trying to for them to honor the litteral meaning because they realize it would be in their best interest. So why did CCP decide no more SP resets? I would imagine that they felt they needed to give people a reason to play. It's kind of hard to do a stress test if no one is playing. Edit: Baal, don't even bother replying to me, we've gone in circles 100 times already.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1020	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:58:00 - [13] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Its a misreading of the terms of sale. Terms goes something like this after boiled down very heavily. You pay us this much You get these items Note: If Reset Then Reissue, No other refunds no, it says very clearly that at commercial release you get all the items credited to your account again. It's quoted above, simple language, nothing about requiring resets or refunds. You are the one "misreading" in this particular case. Heck, the ones they sell at Gamestop STILL say this. Well I just clear cut all the fancy words out. This is all what is left afterwards. Secondly Notices are not legal binding. Quote: ...Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514 account... for the commercial release *emphasis added it's not particularly "fancy". Maybe a "notice" isn't legally binding, but as far as I'm concerned it is ETHICALLY binding. The Merc Pack was sold to us in Closed Beta as a way to prepurchase a bunch of stuff that we would receive at launch, and that anything that happened with it in Beta was irrelevant. It was never announced that this was changing, ever. CCP still haven't made a statement on this topic. They've said "no more SP resets" but that really has no bearing on the Merc Pack and the term therein.
Nomed Deeps The Exemplars 108	Posted - 2013.03.28 19:59:00 - [14] - Quote I've bought at least two merc packs that I have used in game. As they were used and there is no reset, there is no reason I would want a refund for them. Those that want a refund are just trying to take advantage of what was typed because CCP was initially planning on another reset at full release.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1818	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:01:00 - [15] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: INB4LOCK Seriously people. There are already a bunch of threads on this. bump
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1818	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:01:00 - [16] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66280&find=unread Already being discussed.
BursegSardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 68	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:03:00 - [17] - Quote I think when CCP set out with the Merc Packs, they initially planned to clear SP and return AUR used in purchases EVERY single time they reset, and the initial plan was to do this on commercial release. THANKFULLY, CCP decided NO MORE SP resets, but now people are wanted the best of both worlds - keeping the SP and getting back all AUR used and they feel entitled. It's really selfish if you ask me. CCP should present the choice: FULL reset on commercial release (SP and AUR included), or stay the course. That way people can't call them on this small SNAFU.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1818	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:05:00 - [18] - Quote BursegSardaukar wrote: CCP should present the choice: FULL reset on commercial release (SP and AUR included), or stay the course. That way people can't call them on this small SNAFU. There is just one problem with that idea. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63890&find=unread
DS 10 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 109	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:06:00 - [19] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=66280&find=unread Already being discussed. That's an attempt to fix it. I didn't understand the problem in the first place. Calm down, forum police. Go rub one out or something. You seem tense.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1023	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:23:00 - [20] - Quote Really, this all comes down to CCO's penchant for making promises first and asking questions later. They seem to have zero PR or customer relation skills. They want to have their official release early without calling it a release, so as to avoid getting reviewed and being held to a "commercial release" standard, but they expect the players to treat the game as a finished product when it is convenient for CCP for us to do so. This isn't a situation in which the two sides involved are players who bought a merc pack and players who didn't, this is a situation between a multimillion dollar gaming company and the paying customers who can't get that company to clearly explain what we are getting with the money we paid. I bought the merc pack under a specific set of conditions with clear wording and an assurance by CCP representatives that the items most certainly would never be "used up" on the beta. They went to great lengths to assure us that we would get all of those items back at commercial release when people argued on the forums that it was a bad idea to sell things for real world currency in a beta. Now they've decided to rework all of that, and guess what, all of this stuff we are buying in the beta is being used up and won't be refunded at commercial release. CCP wants to have their cake and eat it too, and they seem to hope that we all have the short memories and attention spans on the stereotypical console FPS player. So many seem to have forgotten these discussions, or simply weren't around for then in the first place, but I assure you that this discussion goes back the part of a year, and CCP seem to have done a complete 180. Likely because of this history, they are now afraid to respond to questions about this issue.

Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 362	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:34:00 - [21] - Quote From my perspective as a long time closed beta player and also someone that has purchased multiple mercpackcs etc- The reason I think the AUR reset SHOULD occur is that CCP hasn't taken any of the AUR items and your real life money seriously. At the moment CCP has a product on the market that consists of $20 for what is effectively a 1 month subscription. It was originally designed as a "starter" pack but is the only 1 month subscription available. Is this seriously an fpsmmo worth $20 a month to anyone? What mmo does anyone play (excepting your multiple alts on EVE) that costs $20 a month? None that I'm aware of or think is relevant to the discussion. CCP has basically been very very lazy in not addressing this issue or the other issues arising out of what is completely bizarre AUR pricing for guns/dropsuits, only 7 day expensive passive boosters etc etc etc I don't like lazy and I think they haven't provided the value that I expect for my money. I was fine with them being lazy about "beta" AUR that was being reset but now we sort of slid into this bad middle ground where they are still "beta" on the pricing and merc packs available but somehow this is now a final version of your character. tldr; CCP should reset all the AUR when they get serious about what the monthly pricing is supposed to be (it's seriously dumb now)
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. CRONOS. 3274	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:44:00 - [22] - Quote I think the players looking for a second FREE merc pack are far more greedier.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1023	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:47:00 - [23] - Quote Exactly Tel, it's a "beta" when it's convenient for them, and "everything is permanent" when THAT is more convenient. They don't seem to understand that they are dicking around with real people's real money, and if they make a promise about what they intend to give us for the money we pay, they need to STICK TO IT. Not 6 months ago all the CCP reps were talking about how ridiculous it would be to charge IRL money for items that are in a beta, when a beta is obviously a product in flux. Heck, back then the word was that ALL AUR purchased items would be removed and all AUR would be returned to ALL players at comercial release since the items quality and prices fluctuate so much as they balance the game. Now, we still see these huge fluctuations of price and quality, but our real world money is there's to keep anyway, and they won't even comment on the items that we were promised in the merc pack but now are starting to question whether we will ever see them at all. They never address how they intend to handle this issue, even though there are hundreds of players who worked their IRL jobs to make money to spend on this make-pretend game waiting to hear about what that money we spent will be getting us. It's absurd and frankly, a bit insulting.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1024	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:50:00 - [24] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I think the players looking for a second FREE merc pack are far more greedier. It's not free, it's half of the package we purchased. It's not up for debate, the wording was very clear.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2176	Posted - 2013.03.28 20:56:00 - [25] - Quote Nobody's asking for a "refund" except when they're assuming CCP won't live up to what they offered those who purchased the Merc Pack under the old (still present in Gamestop) product description. And for Iron Wolf, a "notice" may not be legally binding everywhere in the world, but an official product description on the Playstation Store IS legally binding. The terms under which many Merc Packs were purchased specifically define that the contents of the Merc Pack will be "credited in full" to the account on Commercial Release. Everyone who purchased the Merc Pack under those terms - as set out when in the pre-purchase agreement - is legally entitled to receive everything they purchased. CCP, likewise, are entitled to reset ONLY those people who choose to ask for this reset of their Merc Packs, since that won't be a full reset, and since the legal issues surrounding Merc Packs can be seen as a significant enough hurdle to allow a reset. They're also entitled to, as a courtesy to those supportive players who don't want our progress to be wiped, be generous enough to let us pass on the Merc Pack reset, or to give us a good middle ground where they reset everything EXCEPT the boosters, so you get any OTHER Aurum purchases refunded, but if you earned bonus SP beyond your normal cap, then you don't get a refund of the Aurum you spent to do so - but you also don't lose the SP you would otherwise now be entitled to earn twice without legitimately paying for it.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 438	Posted - 2013.03.28 21:03:00 - [26] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Everyone who purchased the Merc Pack under those terms - as set out when in the pre-purchase agreement - is legally entitled to receive everything they purchased. Which I pointed out in the other thread were listed by quantity at the time of purchase. So you got everything you were supposed to.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 362	Posted - 2013.03.28 21:07:00 - [27] - Quote SP resetting only the subset of your customers that have paid IRL money for your product seems so profoundly stupid I'm having trouble processing who would seriously suggest it...
Severus Smith ZionTCD Legacy Rising 205	Posted - 2013.03.28 21:12:00 - [28] - Quote Rasatsu wrote: Give those who want the option to get back their AUR and BPCs. In exchange they get reset as promised for the Commercial Release. Sounds fair to me. Purchasers can petition to get their Merc Pack items / AUR refunded, and CCP will refund them after resetting their characters. It fulfills the contract. Anything more is just people being greedy. There you go Baal, that work for you?
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 2178	Posted - 2013.03.28 21:26:00 - [29] - Quote Altina McAlterson wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Everyone who purchased the Merc Pack under those terms - as set out when in the pre-purchase agreement - is legally entitled to receive everything they purchased. Which I pointed out in the other thread were listed by quantity at the time of purchase. So you got everything you were supposed to. GOT everything we WERE SUPPOSED to, but haven't YET received everything we WILL BE entitled to under the terms agreed upon purchase.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1024	Posted - 2013.03.28 21:27:00 - [30] - Quote Severus Smith wrote: Rasatsu wrote: Give those who want the option to get back their AUR and BPCs. In exchange they get reset as promised for the Commercial Release. Sounds fair to me. Purchasers can petition to get their Merc Pack items / AUR refunded, and CCP will refund them after resetting their characters. It fulfills the contract. Anything more is just people being greedy. There you go Baal, that work for you? No, absolutely not. That's disgusting. Why are you people so deadset on the people who bought a Merc Pack receiving the items they purchased? Why would the people who actually paid CCP real world money for those items need to have their progress in the game reset in order to recieve them? How does that make ANY sense whatsoever? Are you just jealous that you didn't buy a Merc Pack when they were still such an awesome deal? If that's the case, just go buy one from Game Stop, the deal is still going on there with that particular Merc Pack. Otherwise stop being so spiteful and let us get the items we bought without trying to figure out a way to screw your opponents out of their purchase.



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