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Baal Roo
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1020
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Posted - 2013.03.28 19:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's not a "refund" DS.
Quote:
...Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514 account after each character reset AND for the commercial release
*emphasis added
That IS the Merc Pack. Whether you think that's an awesome deal or not can be discussed, but it's pretty clear language man. |
Baal Roo
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1020
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Posted - 2013.03.28 19:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Its a misreading of the terms of sale.
Terms goes something like this after boiled down very heavily.
You pay us this much
You get these items
Note:
If Reset
Then Reissue, No other refunds
no, it says very clearly that at commercial release you get all the items credited to your account again. It's quoted above, simple language, nothing about requiring resets or refunds. You are the one "misreading" in this particular case.
Heck, the ones they sell at Gamestop STILL say this. |
Baal Roo
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1020
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Posted - 2013.03.28 19:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Laheon wrote:CCP included in the small print, when buying the merc pack in closed beta, that you'd get aurum back for each SP reset and before commercial release. As the game hasn't been commercially released yet, they want their Aurum back. But that would mean being able to buy SP boosters, and that means gaining two sets of SP boosters for basically the price of one.
CCP have categorically ruled out any SP reset, barring something dramatic.
it's not "the small print" it's the main selling point of the Merc pack, and was hocked by CCP as such. Nor does it say anything about a "refund" or the commercial release having a "reset"
in fact, it specifically delineates between aSP resets and commercial release, implying that they are very separate things. |
Baal Roo
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1020
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Posted - 2013.03.28 19:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
DS 10 wrote:Baal Roo wrote:It's not a "refund" DS. Quote:
...Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514 account after each character reset AND for the commercial release
*emphasis added
That IS the Merc Pack. Whether you think that's an awesome deal or not can be discussed, but it's pretty clear language man. If it "doesn't make sense" to you, take it up with CCP, they wrote it not me, but don't get upset at me for wanting to receive what I paid for. Why are people asking for it now? There have been no solid official announcements of commercial release. Just speculation and a dev(?) that unofficial lot said it. Is that why there's such a backlash over it?
someone asks every few weeks since early January, CCP keeps telling us that "no, we are not yet at official release" but that they will "get back to us" on how exactly the Merc Pack will work. Every time it comes up people who didn't buy it freak out over it and start arguing that the people who bought the Merc Pack shouldn't get the offer because it's too good of a deal, and an argument erupts. |
Baal Roo
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1020
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Posted - 2013.03.28 19:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Baal Roo wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Its a misreading of the terms of sale.
Terms goes something like this after boiled down very heavily.
You pay us this much
You get these items
Note:
If Reset
Then Reissue, No other refunds no, it says very clearly that at commercial release you get all the items credited to your account again. It's quoted above, simple language, nothing about requiring resets or refunds. You are the one "misreading" in this particular case. Heck, the ones they sell at Gamestop STILL say this. Well I just clear cut all the fancy words out. This is all what is left afterwards. Secondly Notices are not legal binding.
Quote:
...Mercenary Pack will be credited in full to your in-game DUST 514 account... for the commercial release
*emphasis added
it's not particularly "fancy".
Maybe a "notice" isn't legally binding, but as far as I'm concerned it is ETHICALLY binding. The Merc Pack was sold to us in Closed Beta as a way to prepurchase a bunch of stuff that we would receive at launch, and that anything that happened with it in Beta was irrelevant. It was never announced that this was changing, ever. CCP still haven't made a statement on this topic. They've said "no more SP resets" but that really has no bearing on the Merc Pack and the term therein. |
Baal Roo
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1023
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Posted - 2013.03.28 20:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Really, this all comes down to CCO's penchant for making promises first and asking questions later. They seem to have zero PR or customer relation skills.
They want to have their official release early without calling it a release, so as to avoid getting reviewed and being held to a "commercial release" standard, but they expect the players to treat the game as a finished product when it is convenient for CCP for us to do so.
This isn't a situation in which the two sides involved are players who bought a merc pack and players who didn't, this is a situation between a multimillion dollar gaming company and the paying customers who can't get that company to clearly explain what we are getting with the money we paid.
I bought the merc pack under a specific set of conditions with clear wording and an assurance by CCP representatives that the items most certainly would never be "used up" on the beta. They went to great lengths to assure us that we would get all of those items back at commercial release when people argued on the forums that it was a bad idea to sell things for real world currency in a beta.
Now they've decided to rework all of that, and guess what, all of this stuff we are buying in the beta is being used up and won't be refunded at commercial release.
CCP wants to have their cake and eat it too, and they seem to hope that we all have the short memories and attention spans on the stereotypical console FPS player. So many seem to have forgotten these discussions, or simply weren't around for then in the first place, but I assure you that this discussion goes back the part of a year, and CCP seem to have done a complete 180.
Likely because of this history, they are now afraid to respond to questions about this issue. |
Baal Roo
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1023
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Posted - 2013.03.28 20:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Exactly Tel, it's a "beta" when it's convenient for them, and "everything is permanent" when THAT is more convenient. They don't seem to understand that they are dicking around with real people's real money, and if they make a promise about what they intend to give us for the money we pay, they need to STICK TO IT.
Not 6 months ago all the CCP reps were talking about how ridiculous it would be to charge IRL money for items that are in a beta, when a beta is obviously a product in flux. Heck, back then the word was that ALL AUR purchased items would be removed and all AUR would be returned to ALL players at comercial release since the items quality and prices fluctuate so much as they balance the game. Now, we still see these huge fluctuations of price and quality, but our real world money is there's to keep anyway, and they won't even comment on the items that we were promised in the merc pack but now are starting to question whether we will ever see them at all.
They never address how they intend to handle this issue, even though there are hundreds of players who worked their IRL jobs to make money to spend on this make-pretend game waiting to hear about what that money we spent will be getting us.
It's absurd and frankly, a bit insulting. |
Baal Roo
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
1024
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Posted - 2013.03.28 20:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:I think the players looking for a second FREE merc pack are far more greedier.
It's not free, it's half of the package we purchased. It's not up for debate, the wording was very clear. |
Baal Roo
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
1024
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Posted - 2013.03.28 21:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Severus Smith wrote:Rasatsu wrote:Give those who want the option to get back their AUR and BPCs. In exchange they get reset as promised for the Commercial Release. Sounds fair to me. Purchasers can petition to get their Merc Pack items / AUR refunded, and CCP will refund them after resetting their characters. It fulfills the contract. Anything more is just people being greedy. There you go Baal, that work for you?
No, absolutely not. That's disgusting. Why are you people so deadset on the people who bought a Merc Pack receiving the items they purchased? Why would the people who actually paid CCP real world money for those items need to have their progress in the game reset in order to recieve them? How does that make ANY sense whatsoever? Are you just jealous that you didn't buy a Merc Pack when they were still such an awesome deal? If that's the case, just go buy one from Game Stop, the deal is still going on there with that particular Merc Pack. Otherwise stop being so spiteful and let us get the items we bought without trying to figure out a way to screw your opponents out of their purchase. |
Baal Roo
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
1027
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Posted - 2013.03.28 21:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Everyone who purchased the Merc Pack under those terms - as set out when in the pre-purchase agreement - is legally entitled to receive everything they purchased.
Which I pointed out in the other thread were listed by quantity at the time of purchase. So you got everything you were supposed to. GOT everything we WERE SUPPOSED to, but haven't YET received everything we WILL BE entitled to under the terms agreed upon purchase. What? You didn't get your items? Should have contacted Sony about that before now. Were they just missing or did the download fail or what?
We haven't hit commercial release yet. The Merc Pack is to be credited to the account at commercial release. I know you know this at this point, I've quoted the Merc Pack itself in response to you. At this point it must be assumed you are simply trolling. |
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Baal Roo
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
1027
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Posted - 2013.03.28 23:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:What about the part that you can't be "credited in full" for something you currently posses? You know the part about none of the words on that page equal "get an additional one at no cost"?
EDIT:I'm sorry, I have to ask. Seriously. Real talk. When you bought the merc pack months and months ago you knew you were going to get two of them for the price of one?
correct, the wording is clear. One for the beta, and another at commercial release. This was verified and assured by CCP reps on a regular basis, and people arguing that this wouldn't be the case were ridiculed by other players and CCP reps.
the merc pack IS a fresh set of all items at commercial release. That was the entire point. |
Baal Roo
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
1032
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Posted - 2013.03.29 22:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Baal Roo wrote:
correct, the wording is clear. One for the beta, and another at commercial release. This was verified and assured by CCP reps on a regular basis, and people arguing that this wouldn't be the case were ridiculed by other players and CCP reps.
the merc pack IS a fresh set of all items at commercial release. That was the entire point.
Source? And show me another source where it says they would let you keep the Sp alongside the returned booster.
They haven't explained at all how they intend to deal with the Merc Pack, that's the problem.
What they did say over and over again during closed beta is that we could be sure that we would recieve all of our AUR that we purchased back at launch because it's "ridiculous to charge players for items in a beta" and that the Merc Pack should be seen as a "prepurchase for goods players will recieve at launch". This position didn't change until WEEKS after they decided that this would no longer be the case, and they basically back dated the decision to weeks prior... and this isn't even taking into account the fact that such information was never ever "officially" made available, players had to stumble acrossed said information on this trash dump of a forum to find out their real world purchases were no longer being reimbursed.
Anyone who used their Merc Pack or regular AUR purchases between the start of the open beta and weeks later when they made this announcement were basically screwed.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to search back through hundreds of Dev posts from 9 months to a year ago (are those posts from the older forum, pre wipe, even available anymore?), just to satisfy a naysayer on an internet forum. If you don't believe me that this was there position, then so be it or go find the information yourself, but when a CCP rep or a player that was around back then reads this, I'm sure they will know precisely the conversations I'm referring to because they were more rampant than threads now about the issue are.
Such short memories people seem to have.
Sloth9230 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:
The only part where this gets messy is with Boosters, and as I've already said, there's a valid argument saying we still technically have those, and the difficulty of reclaiming them means it's reasonable for CCP to reset any Merc Pack content EXCEPT Boosters - and include Boosters purchased with Merc Pack Aurum in that.
The boosters can be substituted for something of equal value though, in this case the SP they got for using the booster in the first place. As long as they keep that, then the agreement would technically be fulfilled right?
I think the idea that the SP is equal value to the booster itself is at least an interesting proposition that I would be willing to entertain, assuming CCP actually bothered to speak up and respond about the issue. It's one thing to discuss the idea with random naysayer #47 on an internet forum, it's another to discuss it with the person who took my money and has yet to speak up on the issue.
Most of the issue here is CCP's lack of response on this, and their apparent about face on the issue. Again, really this is an issue of trust and principle. My $20 Merc Pack itself isn't that big of a deal, but what this situation does (with the way CCP are FAILING to handle it) is makes many of us who bought a Merc Pack much less likely to trust CCP in the future. If I don't get a fair shake on this Merc Pack situation you can gaurantee I won't be buying any more products from CCP in the future. Basically, they have potential future customers hinging on how they deal with this situation. |
Baal Roo
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Test Alliance Please Ignore
1032
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Posted - 2013.03.29 22:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Baal Roo wrote: assuming CCP actually bothered to speak up and respond about the issue. 10 years later... nope, gotta wait another 10 years.
precisely. this discussion has only gotten out of control because people who have spent real world money have been left to speculate endlessly because CCP is either too inept or too chicken **** to just clear the issue up. |
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