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Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
438
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Posted - 2013.03.28 21:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Everyone who purchased the Merc Pack under those terms - as set out when in the pre-purchase agreement - is legally entitled to receive everything they purchased.
Which I pointed out in the other thread were listed by quantity at the time of purchase. So you got everything you were supposed to. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
439
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 21:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Everyone who purchased the Merc Pack under those terms - as set out when in the pre-purchase agreement - is legally entitled to receive everything they purchased.
Which I pointed out in the other thread were listed by quantity at the time of purchase. So you got everything you were supposed to. GOT everything we WERE SUPPOSED to, but haven't YET received everything we WILL BE entitled to under the terms agreed upon purchase.
What? You didn't get your items? Should have contacted Sony about that before now. Were they just missing or did the download fail or what? |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
440
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 21:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Everyone who purchased the Merc Pack under those terms - as set out when in the pre-purchase agreement - is legally entitled to receive everything they purchased.
Which I pointed out in the other thread were listed by quantity at the time of purchase. So you got everything you were supposed to. GOT everything we WERE SUPPOSED to, but haven't YET received everything we WILL BE entitled to under the terms agreed upon purchase. What? You didn't get your items? Should have contacted Sony about that before now. Were they just missing or did the download fail or what? We haven't hit commercial release yet. The Merc Pack is to be credited to the account at commercial release. I know you know this at this point, I've quoted the Merc Pack itself in response to you. At this point it must be assumed you are simply trolling.
Trolling...do huh? When you bought the merc pack the items and their quantities were listed out for you before you agreed to the purchase. That is how many of each item you will receive, so what are you talking about? |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
440
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 22:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:
Everyone who purchased the Merc Pack under those terms - as set out when in the pre-purchase agreement - is legally entitled to receive everything they purchased.
Which I pointed out in the other thread were listed by quantity at the time of purchase. So you got everything you were supposed to. GOT everything we WERE SUPPOSED (past tense) to, but haven't YET (future tense) received everything we WILL BE (future tense) entitled to under the terms agreed upon purchase. What? You didn't get your items? Should have contacted Sony about that before now. Were they just missing or did the download fail or what? Added in explanations of how you're missing the point in parentheses. I hope that helps. The product description on the Merc Pack that was on the PS Store at the time many of us purchased them included events that haven't happened yet. We haven't received those parts of what we purchased yet because the event on which they depend has yet to occur. And as long as that clause was in the description of the product provided by the store at which the Merc Pack was purchased, it's a legally binding part of the purchase agreement, and is independent of the terms of use that CCP have the right to alter as set out when a player first starts up the beta.
I'm afraid you are missing what I'm saying. This isn't my opinion or how I think it should be, this is the law. When you bought the merc pack it said, for example, 30 Day Booster x 1. That is not what you were receiving at that time, that was what you agreed to purchase period.
I'm not exaggerating when I say there is no wiggle room at all in that. That is as legally binding as anything can possibly be.
So you have received exactly what you agreed to purchase. So you're trying to tell me that you looked at the list of contents and saw 30-Day Booster x 1 and thought you were going to get 2? And no implied product clause modifies jack. Those numbers are what you agree to purchase.
I'm serious about this, if you fail to understand this one single point I was assume you lack the mental capacity for productive dialogue and ignore your future posts. Those quantities of items are all you are entitled to receive unless explicitly stated somewhere that additional items will be delivered at a future date. By explicit I don't mean clear, I mean things like "At such date for such payment amount this certain quantity will be delivered". I don't see that anywhere.
And like I said before, "credited to your account" means to replace that which was lost. It is a term with a fixed meaning. You must first give something to someone else before you can receive "credit" for it. A credit can not increase the quantity of anything. A credit is merely a representation of something else. In fact, in a legal sense if you are credited something and yet you currently posses that item, therefor increasing what you posses from 1 to 2 of the whatever, you are required by law to return the credit immediately and will be held liable in court if you spend it. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
440
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Posted - 2013.03.28 22:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
What about the part that you can't be "credited in full" for something you currently posses? You know the part about none of the words on that page equal "get an additional one at no cost"?
EDIT:I'm sorry, I have to ask. Seriously. Real talk. When you bought the merc pack months and months ago you knew you were going to get two of them for the price of one? |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
442
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Posted - 2013.03.29 00:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Seems like the forums ate my post. Other people have already raised all my points but I just want to apologize to Garrett. Too many threads got blurry and I didn't realize you were the one saying to reimburse it all back to the original value only, my bad. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
443
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Posted - 2013.03.30 01:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:Baal Roo wrote:
correct, the wording is clear. One for the beta, and another at commercial release. This was verified and assured by CCP reps on a regular basis, and people arguing that this wouldn't be the case were ridiculed by other players and CCP reps.
You know what's even clearer than the wording? The fact that CCP was promising that you would get the merc pack items back in full after the final reset (Commercial Release at the time) so you could try stuff out before that with no worries. You know what isn't clear? CCP promising you that no matter what you were going to get a new merc pack on Commercial Release whether there was a reset or not.
the merc pack IS a fresh set of all items at commercial release. That was the entire point.
The entire point was you would get it all back after the final reset. Whether that final reset was Commercial Release or not the promise was once the game started for real you'd start it with all your Merc Pack goodies. We'll get a non-biased third party to type up a report on this situation and show it a few hundred people and see which side most people take. I thought it was "Buy once, use twice" not "Buy one, use twice unless the the second time happens before Commercial Release is which case it will 'use three times'". By the way, contrary to some nonsense you spouted in another post that is how you explicitly state something. You find me where it says anything about receiving an additional merc pack for free or stop saying you were explicitly promised anything.Source? And show me another source where it says they would let you keep the Sp alongside the returned booster. They haven't explained at all how they intend to deal with the Merc Pack, that's the problem. No, that's not the problem. Thinking you're entitled to a damn thing here is the problem. If you don't like it you can get mad. Write them and angry letter. Write a blog about how unfair it is.
Or you could make a big deal about it, generate some more bad press for the game before it's even released, divide the player base, demand the you get all kinds of stuff you didn't pay for, **** off the new players by demanding even more of an advantage, waste the DEV's time having to deal with this crap. Everybody complains about lack of content now so go ahead and dump a whole bunch of bullshit on their plate right before release because of some sloppy wording.
CCP didn't make you play the BETA. CCP didn't make you buy a Merc Pack. CCP never made you pay a single dime. That was your decision.
You know what CCP did actually make you do? Agree to a document that affirmed you understood that everything in the BETA is subject to change and CCP makes no promises that what they do today won't be undone tomorrow. What they did say over and over again during closed beta is that we could be sure that we would recieve all of our AUR that we purchased back at launch because it's "ridiculous to charge players for items in a beta" and that the Merc Pack should be seen as a "prepurchase for goods players will recieve at launch" Again...ridiculous if you're not going to delete it one day and not give it back after the final reset. And "Launch"? What difference does it make? Was the AUR I spent wasted because it wasn't "Launch"? My SP is getting boosted this week the same as it would after Launch. Anyone who used their Merc Pack or regular AUR purchases between the start of the open beta and weeks later when they made this announcement were basically screwed. http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/74180
Posted Jan. 8. 2 days before reset.Such short memories people seem to have. Yes they do.[quote=Sloth9230] Most of the issue here is CCP's lack of response on this, and their apparent about face on the issue. Again, really this is an issue of trust and principle. My $20 Merc Pack itself isn't that big of a deal, but what this situation does (with the way CCP are FAILING to handle it) is makes many of us who bought a Merc Pack much less likely to trust CCP in the future. If I don't get a fair shake on this Merc Pack situation you can gaurantee I won't be buying any more products from CCP in the future. Basically, they have potential future customers hinging on how they deal with this situation.
Trust and principle? Yea, and the American Civil War was about State's rights. They have said along that plans will change. We signed legal documents stating we knew things would change. Then things changed and now everybody's all pissed off and demanding free stuff. What do you want them say about it? We all knew things would change. That merc pack was guaranteed to survive all the resets. You still have it, right? End of discussion. All this false indignation is because there's a possibility of free stuff due to careless language.
We get pissed when they don't tell us enough about what's going on. Then when they do tell us things, even though we promised that we understood it could all change at any time, we all get so outraged that they've violated out trust. Blow me. They were stupid for bringing real money in to this but we were all stupid for spending it.
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Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
443
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Posted - 2013.03.30 18:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:
every reset.
What the Merc. Pack should have said. I hope CCPs learned a valuable lesson.
Fixed that for you.
That's all I had for you in particular, the rest is for everyone else.
CCP screwed up with the wording on that thing. But back when you bought it you didn't think it meant you were going to get 2 of them. And everybody knew things were subject to change. And you should understand that all CCP has really been saying all along is anything you bought before a character reset would still be there afterwards.
So can we just drop all this "I'm outraged!" and "I am merely asking for what I originally purchased!" bullcrap? You got what you paid for, we all did. And CCP hasn't broken any promises about the Merc Pack. So just stop, you're making yourselves look stupid.
"CCP changed their mind on the final reset being when the game went to the Commercial Release stage. I knew they might change their mind about anything and I agreed to that when I entered the BETA. Unfortunately for them they got sloppy with some wording and now I'm entitled to free stuff. I don't care if you think it's right or wrong, it's not my fault they weren't more careful with the contract language. I feel I'm within my rights to demand this and I'm going to stand by that."
If you start saying that it won't matter if I agree or disagree because at least you're being honest. Stop trying to make CCP the villain in all this. And stop thinking anyone who disagrees with you "is just defending CCP!". I'm looking at this objectively.
Whether the final reset is at launch or before you still got your Merc Pack items after it. And you were informed that is would be the final reset before it happened. So just say you want free stuff because they screwed up. Can't argue with that so the debate moves on to speculation about whether or not you should actually be entitled to receive another Merc Pack.
And as a side note the merc pack itself did say that all AUR would be refunded at commercial release. That statement was all alone whereas this other stuff directly followed language that referred to resets. Because of that I would say if nothing else CCP should be obligated to refund the AUR from the Merc Packs that players have spent so far. It will be bad for the game and community but that statement is hard to argue with, mainly because it was all by itself. |
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