Right or wrong, it's

not

going

to

happen.

And I stand by what I said about the original agreement having already been honored. Any item you bought would have stayed with you into CR if you hadn't used it, that too me is CCP honoring the original agreement.

It was dumb for them to include the "commercial release" clause, but people, not saying you necessarily, trying to get something out of a simple mistake is them just being greedy IMO.

Really, this all comes down to CCP's penchant for making promises first and asking questions later. They seem to have zero PR or customer relation skills.

They want to have their official release early without calling it a release, so as to avoid getting reviewed and being held to a "commercial release" standard, but they expect the players to treat the game as a finished product when it is convenient for CCP for us to do so.

This isn't a situation in which the two sides involved are players who bought a merc pack and players who didn't, this is a situation between a multimillion dollar gaming company and the paying customers who can't get that company to clearly explain what we are getting with the money we paid.

I bought the merc pack under a specific set of conditions with clear wording and an assurance by CCP representatives that the items most certainly would never be "used up" on the beta. They went to great lengths to assure us that we would get all of those items back at commercial release when people argued on the forums that it was a bad idea to sell things for real world currency in a beta.

Now they've decided to rework all of that, and guess what, all of this stuff we are buying in the beta is being used up and won't be refunded at commercial release. Even the stuff that CLEARLY states within the purchase order that this most decidedly WILL NOT be the case.

CCP wants to have their cake and eat it too, and they seem to hope that we all have the short memories and attention spans on the stereotypical console FPS player. So many seem to have forgotten these discussions, or simply weren't around for them in the first place, but I assure you that this discussion goes back the better part of a year, and CCP seem to have done a complete 180.

Likely because of this history, they are now afraid to respond to questions about this issue.

If you purchased from Gamestop (before they fix their wording), or if you purchased the pre-change Merc Pack from the PS Store when they were still using that wording, you're entitled to a refund of the contents of the Merc Pack.

Everything in the pack should be made available to you.

I think there should be at least the first two of the following 3 options. The third is an alternative extra option to give players for completeness:

1. Full character reset if the player opts to do so. ALL characters on the account get a FULL reset to their starting stats, and ALL the Merc Pack content is refunded as promised. You get your Merc Pack boosters back. You get the Aurum you spent on boosters back. You lose all your ISK. You lose all your gear. You lose all your accumulated SP. This satisfies the legal requirements of the Merc Pack, and it can be argued that the legal situation around the Merc Packs is a significant enough "catastrophe" to allow CCP to reset players who choose this option.

2. The suggestion I keep making... Reset all Aurum purchases and all bundle GEAR, but not the Boosters. If you didn't use the Booster, you still have it ready to use. If you did, you keep the SP you earned with it. I'm tempted to say they should refund EVERYTHING in terms of Gear - all your purchases made with ISK should be returned to the marketplace and you should be reimbursed the cost. Keep in mind that if someone WANTS their Boosters back, they can still choose the first option and get the Booster to use again. They just don't get to keep their SP or ISK at the same time.

3. Your Merc Pack is treated as a post-correction Merc Pack, meaning you only keep what you still have left, since we're past the final reset. This should be an option, not something that is force on anyone.

Again, nowhere does anything talk about a "refund" of these items. It says in no uncertain terms that you will be awarded all the items in the Merc Pack again at commercial release. There's no tricky wording required, no refunds neccessary.

Stop right there, not sure what everything else is about.


Sorry but what CCP decides affects everyone, not not just the original buyers. Of course I didn't buy one, I couldn't have bought one, I was told about Dust after it went into OB. And whether I bought one or not is irrelevant anyway.

What's your total lifetime SP?

408,000=30 day booster

Actually, it says "credited in full" which means the replacement of that which was removed or a payment from a second party to the first party on behalf of a third party before payment is received by the second party from the third party. A "credit" is not the creation of anything but merely a way to move a certain value from place to place. You can not be credited that which you currently posses. Don't know if I mention that or not.

EDIT: I asked Sony about this and the unofficial word from some random customer service rep (after she "researched" it for me) was that if CCP releases the game they will have to refund AUR since that what was explicitly stated.

I'll admit "Fantasy Land" was a bit harsh. Perhaps "mininformed land". Look, legally speaking this is all very simple. When you purchased the Merc Pack it listed the contents and their quantity. That is what you agreed to buy and that is what Sony/CCP agreed to sell you. Unless it explicitly states that you will receive an additional, let's say, booster you have no right to expect anything.[?quote]

It DOES "explicity" state exactly this:



That's precisely the problem. It says exactly what you are implying that it doesn't say.




No, because the item includes another Merc Pack to be "credited in full" for the commercial release. The terms are clear, there's no tricky wording to have to try and understand. It's simple, concise language with what appears to be a very clear and direct meaning.

[quote=Altina]
There is no way they are obligated to just give you a new one while letting you keep the old one. They are obligated to do one of the following things:

Full Refund

Jack ****

And before all the arguing starts I'm not saying you bought "just one thing, so that's all I think you should get". I'm saying that is all they are legally required to provide you. In the case that you did not receive a certain item you agreed to purchase they are obligated to send you the item, and item of equal value, or to refund you the money you spent for that specific item. In the event that the item did not conform to your expectations they are obligated to provide a refund only and can require the item be returned before issuing the refund. There's no wiggle room with this stuff. Companies are very good about protecting themselves from anything that is implied, which is exactly what this is.

Although, the actual merc pack did say that all AUR will be refunded on commercial release so they might have to actually do that.

You'd rather loose 408,000 SP instead 380,800? Hey man, w/e ever floats your boat.

This.

Getting the contents "credited in full" means that anything you used up is restored, and anything you still have remains.

The Merc Pack included 50 Shotguns. If you still have 20 on Commercial Release, you don't end up with 70. You keep the 20 you already have, and get another 30 to top you back up to the 50 contained in the pack.

If you gave your Dragonfly BPO and your Toxin BPO to a character you later deleted, you get them back to assign to a new character. You don't get replacements without the original contents being reset.

If you'd prefer, you can think of the credit as being a deletion of the Merc Pack content you currently have, then the supply of replacements for all of it. That's effectively how it's meant to work based on the wording we were given.

So once again where do you get this I will lose sp in the first place Idea oh that's right that is your offer to people who bought merc pack's so once again didn't know you work for CCP and can make such offer's on their behalf

CCP reads these forums, and I'm pretty sure they'll read this thread. Peoples response to this thread should give them a general idea whether this idea is good or not.

From what I can tell most of the one's who like the idea are people like you who didn't buy the merc pack's in the first place.

Secondly input from those who this actually effect is the only input CCP should look at as non-buyer's have a bias opinion on the subject .

Yeah, that's perfectly reasonable. As long as I have all of the items from the Merc Pack at commercial release in my character's possession, and my progress isn't reset out of spite for wanting to recieve the thing I spent $20 on, I'll be happy. It's a simple solution that the naysayers are making complicated for apparently no good reason as far as I can tell.

The part where it's tricky is in the SP Boosters - both the Booster that comes with the pack, AND any Boosters purchased with Merc Pack Aurum.

Refunding these effectively means they've given you two boosters if they don't reset you as well. That means you're getting more than you should be entitiled to, unless it comes with a reset of SP. If you get the Boosters back after using them, CCP get complaints from people who didn't buy the pack because they've been given more than they paid for, and more than they're entitled to.

I think, for all the non-Booster items, and for any Aurum spent on something OTHER than a Booster, it's an easy "give it back, take what it was spent on" solution.

If you bought gear with Aurum, the gear is wiped, and the Aurum refunded. Any gear you were given in the Merc Pack is returned to you. Those Shotguns, Stimulants, etc. are all restored to the original amount you purchased. That's easy.

BOOSTERS are the problem. There are legitimate grounds for people to object to us being given back those Boosters without any loss of the SP we earned using them.

They have the option - which I think is fair - to (optionally, at the player's discretion) reset SP on those players who are adamant that they should have everything back. They can also say that you still have the Booster, since the function of the Booster is to increase your SP. You have elevated SP, therefore you still have the Booster.

It's possible they might wipe ONLY the SP you earned specifically due to the use of the Booster, if they have comprehensive enough records to do so. It would cause a mess when you consider the loss of already-spent SP though. Do you get your skills wiped so you can re-allocate everything? Do they un-train skills in the reverse of the order you trained them? Do they let you keep the skills you've trained, but have your "unallocated" SP count in the negative and need to build it into positive before you can buy new skills? It would be more of a mess doing it that way, and simply NOT refunding Boosters is a far simpler - yet still fair - method of refunding the contents of the Merc Pack.

Yup, it seems the main argument against the people who bought the Merc Pack actually getting the offer that they purchased boils down to "well, that's too good of a deal, so you shouldn't get it". As far as I'm concerned, they need to take that issue up with CCP. I didn't write the offer, CCP did. I just took them up on it, and now I expect them to honor it without screwing me out of spite or in order to facilitate the jealousy of the players who didn't get in on the deal.

The booster is one of the items that was included in the contents of the merc pack though and it's not like the description said you will not get any aurum back that you spent on booster's

they need to take that issue up with CCP.

You have got to be ******* kidding me. That's the main argument against it? The most compelling reason against what you're saying you should receive is we're jealous? Ok, just so long as you understand that my objection to it has nothing to do with jealousy it's fine. I can handle not being "the main argument".

your argument makes no sense if not chalked up to either jealousy or spite. The wording of the Merc Pack is clear, and you are arguing that it does not say what it says... or does not MEAN what it says.

your argument makes no sense if not chalked up to either jealousy or spite. The wording of the Merc Pack is clear, and you are arguing that it does not say what it says... or does not MEAN what it says.

No, but as I said, there's a reasonable argument allowing for the claim that you still have those things, and you shouldn't expect to be given back something you still have. Just like someone who still has their Dragonfly suit isn't expecting a second one. They're expecting to EITHER have it reset (removed from currently-assigned character, available to give back to that character or assign to one of the others on the account) or left alone.

You still have the boosted SP that is the final state in which the Booster ends up. Therefore, logically, it may be stated that you still have the Booster. It depends whether you define the Booster as the initial item before use, or by its effect. And if you definie it as the initial item, then you aren't "losing" the previous Booster by having your SP reset in order to get the replacement.

You should stop making yourself look like a fool.

great counter argument, you've convinced me. Forget what the merc pack said, I don't want to get the things I paid for because it apparently makes me "look like a fool".

If CCP want's to follow the suggestion's of you people then they can expect no more purchase's from me

I doubt CCP wants the business of someone so eager to exploit their current situation.

So taking 380 SP out of your SP pool is somehow alienating you? How have you survived so long in this cruel cruel world?

If everyone got reset at CR then it would still be the same thing, but oh no because then "CCP lied about no more resets". Please you people are never happy, and you're just trying to take advantage of the situation by them stating there wouldn't be anymore resets in a greedy little attempt to double down on your purchase.

CCP should just give us all 5 mill SP at CR and be done with this situation.