nope, although with light weapon range proficiency and a breach they do reach out suprisingly far.

Other than that, they rule the short range band, like they should.

Feel like they need a range nerf. Lately my heavy cant do **** to a scout rushing from the front spamming the shotgun.

idk about a range nerf. maybe more bullet spread, shotgun shots are too tight at short-mefium range.

Well, depends, Militia and Basic shotguns shouldn't do as much damage as they do and need a slight nerf, CRG-3 and anything above are perfect.

No.

+1

We should rally fix damage mods before we go around calling anything OP.

Feel like they need a range nerf. Lately my heavy cant do **** to a scout rushing from the front spamming the shotgun.

With the crap hit detection in the game the shotgun needs a buff IMO it's either a OHK or it does next to no damage.

I've shot someone point blank and done 1/3 to their shield, and the 2nd shot kill them. Logic -----> window

Dude... They're not supposed to....

Go watch some of the early videos of Dust 514 including CCP Pokethulu (David Reid) and he literally says - but of course I'm paraphrasing - that the Gallente Scout suit is a counter to the Heavy.

He says something along the lines of: "The scout is a fast, evasive drop-suit that's supposed to dip in beneath the heavy's slow turn speed. If a Scout can get in close to a Heavy, he's in trouble"

The bastardization of the Scout as a "sniper class" is what caused this stupid influx of it being nothing else but a sniper class. You're pretty much saying, "Oh - the scout is OP because it's doing it's job"

Seriously, I'm tired of seeing these threads all of the time. By the end of it all, this game is going to be Assault Rifles and Mass Drivers.

Go pre-order Destiny or some **** if it bothers you so much.

Ive had militia shotguns one-shot through ~400 HP non-headshot, and it wasnt even too long after reset so skills likely werent that great. How long I dont remember, but it was shortly after I was able to achieve 400 HP. So however long it takes to get assault type II and enhanced extenders (first things I went for).

So onto the subject of how to make them more balanced since I dont feel a militia shotgun should one-shot a HP modified suit, is at the very least the lower tiers need some sort of damage or pellet reduction. A militia shotgun, I feel, should be able to one-shot any assault suit that has no HP modification. A type-II assault with 2 enhanced extenders should not be able to be one-shotted, however, it should still have only ~25-50 or so HP left after one hit. Whatever level of damage that is I feel the lower tiers should be at. Which maybe a pellet reduction would be better and the higher in tiers you go the more pellets you get and damage either stays the same or slightly increases similar to ARs.

CCP really needs to start doing weekend events where we can login with supered characters and 100M ISK go at it hard and report back our findings with regard to balance, otherwise we will be having this conversation again once player hit the 8M sp mark, 12M, 20M SP and with every new weapon addition.

Pretty sure militia is stronger than specialist( I'll have to check ), I 1-shot plenty of people using specialist, so no, nerfing their damage won't do much. Simply don't let them get that close.

I also like how you assume that even though you were able to get 400 HP, other people couldn't invest in damage. You can get weaponry level 4 at minimum with starter SP.

Edit: Nevermind, specialist is 36 per pellet, as is militia and basic.

I like how you assume that I dont assume people have weaponry 5. I stand by my statements with weaponry 5 in place. Thats also why I say it should leave you with ~25-50 HP in a type-II. That way if they actually fit damage mods they can still one shot it, as it should be. The actual assumption I was making is that they didnt have the SP for fitting requirements, and range, and operations, and speed mods, and etc.

Fitting Requirements? How do you know what suit they were wearing?, it's not cheap but a type 1 suit is easily doable in a week. It's also easy to put an enhanced mod or two if you get rid of unnecessary things like side arms.
Range? What range did they kill you at exactly?
Operations? For a militia shotgun... you're kidding right?
Speed mods: Now those are hard to fit, was he going noticeably faster than you?

Sounds to me like you went up against a super shotgunner who just so happened to be using a militia shotgun... probably cause they're cheaper.

My tier 2 shotgun should be able to take out your tier 2 suit. Since there's no difference between a tier 2 shotgun and militia, I don't see why you think you should survive if all the pellets hit you And it sounds like most hit you...

I know what he had because I talked to him about it after the match and even he agreed that he shouldnt have been able to go through 400 HP without a headshot.

Also, your standard shotgun should NOT be able to take out a HP buffed standard suit without having a 5% or 10% damage mod or two, in my opinion.

Then how about you tell us everything he had?


That's your opinion, the fact that I can leave a standard heavy(that's 750 total HP) almost dead with 1 shot tells me you and your 400 HP never stood a chance. Assuming 12 pellets, that's 432 damage without any damage modifications... your Hp doesn't look so impressive now does it? And I'm almost positive there's more than 12 pellets, CCP should really tell us how many there are.

Are you ignorant? Thats seriously going to be your argument. All youre proving is that the shotgun is indeed OP. The discussion here is whether it is OP or not, and how to fix it if it is, and youre going to come in here and say your little standard shotgun blows through almost 750 HP? I am speaking of what the shotgun SHOULD do, not what it DOES do, and it definately should not be able to do that without some serious skill investment and high tier equipment, to include multiple 10% damage mods.

Yes, because an insta-kill at point blank range is OP . It does like 1/3 of it's damage at anything past 10 meters.

I also did say almost dead, not on the brink. I'd say it does around 500 damage, but I have weaponry 5.. so yeah, that's 475 damage assuming 12 pelets for your information.

Ok, good to know. As if I didnt already. The point Im making is that it should have less pellets because it does too much damage. Heres my final opinion on the shotgun cause Im done feeding your ignorant trolling self:

The shotgun needs a pellet reduction, and it should go back up on a scale to where it is now when a proto shotgun is used.

They shouldn't benefit from sharpshooter but thats about it.

I think part of the problem comes from the fact that SG was conceptualized as a scout weapon where fast scouts can close in fast and use SG at short range. Of course early on there were massive hit detection issues and I think they were somehow tied into how fast suits could move. So scout suit speed was nerfed. After that because scout suits were not able to perform at all in their capacity to close in on the enemy fast, I think CCP tweaked shotgun a bit to give it a better range. This fixed the problem with Shotgun scouts but gave Assault suits an unfair advantage if they used SG. I think the problem now is that Assault suit with SG is OP, not that SG in general is OP.

Slight off topic. What happens to SG at advanced and proto levels? We see that weapons like duvole AR get a massive increase in damage over the base version. When you read th same statistic for shotguns they get a minimal increase in damage. What do they gain then as you move to advanced and proto? Pellet count per shot?

LOL really?

So AR gets SS? HMG gets SS? but shotgun doesn't?

That is a joke... SS increases the optimal range of all weapons in their respective catagory... you can't pick and choose just because you don't like getting killed by a weapon.

I don't like getting gunned down by ARs when I'm outside of their normal range... so they shouldn't be affected by SS... same logic you are using. But turned to a different weapon.

The shotgun with sharp shooter is nasty, but any other gun even without sharpshooter will out range it.

Leveling up operations makes me more accurate by reducing spread so more of my pellets will hit at all ranges. Then leveling up SS lets me fire at slightly increased ranges.

Even combined that's not really that overpowered anymore than the AR getting the same bonus.

The Shotgun is not OP it excels in CQC where it can hit with most of its pellets (what a surprise). SS gives it a small increase in range in which to hit with its shells but even then to hit with all of their pellets to get the OHK it has to basically be practically on top of you.

The range they get, or rather how well the dmg carries over the range they get is ridiculous.

Except oakley and jane said me ppl have good kdr with shotty?

before the last reset I had a 4 kd with scout shotty, and I started late with it. I was bored with my main toon, so I tried it. A 4 kd isn't anything to write home about, but it's not bad.

oakley and jane use Assault suit + shotty, so that makes killing them harder to kill. I won't say the shotgun is OP, just the dmg over range is ridic.

The problem isn't with Sharpshooter.

As people have pointed out many times before (and I used to argue against them... sorry, guys), the problem is that Shotguns don't have a fast enough damage falloff.

Without Sharpshooter, this isn't noticeable, because the maximum range alone holds them back. When you skill it up significantly, then the lack of damage loss means they're still hitting really hard at longer range than they should be. If a brand new player dual-tanks their Militia Logistics suit, and brings the default SMG, they shouldn't be getting one-shotted from outside their max range by a Shotgun. At the moment, even a Militia HEAVY can be one-shotted with the right Shotgun fitting from outside their HMG or SMG's effective range. When your short-to-mid-range weapons are being outranged by a weapon that's intended for pure CQC, there's a problem.

At low levels, Shotguns are decent. With the falloff problem fixed, Shotguns will be decent again.

They still need to be dealing damage at longer range when you skill into Sharpshooter, but it can't be as much as it is now.

The problem isn't with Sharpshooter.

As people have pointed out many times before (and I used to argue against them... sorry, guys), the problem is that Shotguns don't have a fast enough damage falloff.

Without Sharpshooter, this isn't noticeable, because the maximum range alone holds them back. When you skill it up significantly, then the lack of damage loss means they're still hitting really hard at longer range than they should be. If a brand new player dual-tanks their Militia Logistics suit, and brings the default SMG, they shouldn't be getting one-shotted from outside their max range by a Shotgun. At the moment, even a Militia HEAVY can be one-shotted with the right Shotgun fitting from outside their HMG or SMG's effective range. When your short-to-mid-range weapons are being outranged by a weapon that's intended for pure CQC, there's a problem.

At low levels, Shotguns are decent. With the falloff problem fixed, Shotguns will be decent again.

They still need to be dealing damage at longer range when you skill into Sharpshooter, but it can't be as much as it is now.

True. As a heavy, with over 1000 ehp I get 2 shotted from 10-15m out. Shotguns are suppose to be strong, I dont think anyone is saying no, but dmg fall off... needs a tweak.

Plus, the militia shotgun...WAY too strong for being militia. That's the only thing I can say is OP about SG.

The big problem behind this is adv and proto heavy need a buff, and im not a heavy

yea that's another story for another thread lol. If we start that debate, then this thread would surely get derailed.

Agree with the fact militia SG is OP

Not really im agree when heavy said SG is OP because heavy are too weak, for the other class they said SG is OP i say LOL, but you dont answer my question , give me the name of good KDR shotty except oakley and jane?

I think that SG is perceived as OP more so than it actually is because when it kills it does so fast. As main SG scout i can tell you that it takes a lot of luck and effort to ambush red dots. There are countless times when I jump around a corner to ambush someone and instead I find that there is half a squad there that my radar never picked up.

When SG shoot you from a long distance - yeah they can take 1/3 of your shields but they will never kill you from 15m away even if they land a few shots and returned fire from distance with any other weapon is sure death to the guy with the SG.

When you're turning the corner and finding a lot of enemies who you didn't pick up before trying to pounce, it's because their Scan Profile was low enough to hide them from your Scan Precision. If you're running an Assault, that's probably why. If you're running a Scout, either equip a module or train skills to improve your suit's Precision, and you'll light more targets up easier. That makes a Scout's life a LOT safer. You have about 20% better Scan Precision than an Assault, but only about 10% improvement on Profile.


I've had times where I go up against another Shotgunner, and I get one-shotted at a range where my Shotgun is literally dealing 0 damage. AT 15 - 20m range, if you don't have Sharpshooter trained, you can barely scratch ra target. At 20+, you won't even hit the target. With Sharpshooter maxed out, you can one-shot low-tier Assault suits at 15m. At 20+, you can two-shot them, and the one-shot range against even a decently-tanked Scout is pretty insane (although it's still only a Scout).