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Regular Trooper
Rebelles A Quebec
Orion Empire
6
   |
Posted - 2013.03.28 20:19:00 -
[61] - Quote
The big problem behind this is adv and proto heavy need a buff, and im not a heavy |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
1015
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 20:21:00 -
[62] - Quote
Regular Trooper wrote:The big problem behind this is adv and proto heavy need a buff, and im not a heavy
yea that's another story for another thread lol. If we start that debate, then this thread would surely get derailed. |
Regular Trooper
Rebelles A Quebec
Orion Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 20:28:00 -
[63] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Regular Trooper wrote:The big problem behind this is adv and proto heavy need a buff, and im not a heavy yea that's another story for another thread lol. If we start that debate, then this thread would surely get derailed.
Not really im agree when heavy said SG is OP because heavy are too weak, for the other class they said SG is OP i say LOL, but you dont answer my question , give me the name of good KDR shotty except oakley and jane? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2176
|
Posted - 2013.03.28 20:47:00 -
[64] - Quote
Regular Trooper wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:The problem isn't with Sharpshooter.
As people have pointed out many times before (and I used to argue against them... sorry, guys), the problem is that Shotguns don't have a fast enough damage falloff.
Without Sharpshooter, this isn't noticeable, because the maximum range alone holds them back. When you skill it up significantly, then the lack of damage loss means they're still hitting really hard at longer range than they should be. If a brand new player dual-tanks their Militia Logistics suit, and brings the default SMG, they shouldn't be getting one-shotted from outside their max range by a Shotgun. At the moment, even a Militia HEAVY can be one-shotted with the right Shotgun fitting from outside their HMG or SMG's effective range. When your short-to-mid-range weapons are being outranged by a weapon that's intended for pure CQC, there's a problem.
At low levels, Shotguns are decent. With the falloff problem fixed, Shotguns will be decent again.
They still need to be dealing damage at longer range when you skill into Sharpshooter, but it can't be as much as it is now. True. As a heavy, with over 1000 ehp I get 2 shotted from 10-15m out. Shotguns are suppose to be strong, I dont think anyone is saying no, but dmg fall off... needs a tweak. Plus, the militia shotgun...WAY too strong for being militia. That's the only thing I can say is OP about SG. Agree with the fact militia SG is OP
With damage falloff increased, I don't think the Militia Shotgun would still be OP.
And if it is, not by much. I think the falloff should be adressed first - ONLY the falloff, nothing else. If Militia Shotgun is still OP, drop it back to 4 or 5 shots per reload instead of 6. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
133
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 01:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
I think that SG is perceived as OP more so than it actually is because when it kills it does so fast. As main SG scout i can tell you that it takes a lot of luck and effort to ambush red dots. There are countless times when I jump around a corner to ambush someone and instead I find that there is half a squad there that my radar never picked up.
So when I do ambush someone successfully it must feel OP to them - I drop out of no where and two shot them. What they don't know is how many times I failed because CQC is always a risky stunt and typically you as an attacker have poor situational awareness- especially you are never sure how many red dots may be around the corner when you hope to jump just one of them. And mind you as a scout you almost never get another chance - once you exposed urself, you don't have enough hp to enable you to retreat and recover before you try another time.
When SG shoot you from a long distance - yeah they can take 1/3 of your shields but they will never kill you from 15m away even if they land a few shots and returned fire from distance with any other weapon is sure death to the guy with the SG.
Honestly, I think the distance and the spread and the power are all well balanced. Look at KDR of anyone who runs with a SG - it's not that great. When you look at Calamity and Oakley - they run proto assault suits. Their KDR is not great b/c of SG it is b/c of proto suit that can stop a lot of damage. That and proto squad based pub stomping that would make anyone look good. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming
1015
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 01:36:00 -
[66] - Quote
Regular Trooper wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Regular Trooper wrote:The big problem behind this is adv and proto heavy need a buff, and im not a heavy yea that's another story for another thread lol. If we start that debate, then this thread would surely get derailed. Not really im agree when heavy said SG is OP because heavy are too weak, for the other class they said SG is OP i say LOL, but you dont answer my question , give me the name of good KDR shotty except oakley and jane?
there are good shotgunners around, it's just they're the best at what they do. |
Val'herik Dorn
SyNergy Gaming
381
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 02:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Ok in this thread i have seen people say that Light weapon sharpshooter makes the shotgun OP. That it shouldn't be as effective at longer ranges (which in the case of the shotgun becomes like 20m tops for hitting things and you aren't....).
Sharp shooter increases the optimal range of any weapon that falls into the category for which it has been designated.
LWSS affects every light weapon. You cannot with any shred of credibility say that it can affect one weapon but not another...
THAT is broken. Giving a skill that increases the range of every single weapon in a category except for one weapon is a game breaking mechanic. You want to make it so that no matter what the shotgun only hits at its given range? then i demand that the assault rifle and every other weapon only ever hits at max damage to its original range.
SS increases the optimal range of a weapon. This states that the higher the skill the farther out your damage potential is maximized. So yes it does mean that even the shotgun can hit AS HARD but farther. this also means that your weapon can do this as well.
Every weapon benefits from sharpshooter. You cannot give the others access to this basic weapon skill while denying one.
The shot guns range is the shortest in the game even with LWSS you have to get freakishly close to hit someone (by dusts standards)
My qualm is that everyone here arguing against the longer range is killed by it. I've been killed by shotguns with crazy high ss and my only thought is damn i wish i had that trained that high.
one example of SS is that when this build (and the others) started the AR could not shoot from B on manus peak all the way into C... now they can! the Laser rifle can as well. so basically their range is silly and with SS they can do almost max damage at that range. my shotgun i have to be what 6-7 meters from you? at max SS 10-15?
You want to make it so that no matter how far i can shoot unless I'm on top of you i cant do max damage while you can kill me from 100-110 meters?(while dealing basically max damage)
This is a case of
Dear CCP rock is OP.
Paper is fine!
Scissors. |
Johnny Guilt
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
63
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 02:24:00 -
[68] - Quote
Not OP ,when you want something dead at closerange use the shotty, just dont miss; it's a "bet it all" weapon compare to the others.
As for Sharpshooter it get the same benfit as the other weapons that take advantage of it as well,you can't go mid range-long range with a shotty though. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2195
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 03:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:I think that SG is perceived as OP more so than it actually is because when it kills it does so fast. As main SG scout i can tell you that it takes a lot of luck and effort to ambush red dots. There are countless times when I jump around a corner to ambush someone and instead I find that there is half a squad there that my radar never picked up.
When you're turning the corner and finding a lot of enemies who you didn't pick up before trying to pounce, it's because their Scan Profile was low enough to hide them from your Scan Precision. If you're running an Assault, that's probably why. If you're running a Scout, either equip a module or train skills to improve your suit's Precision, and you'll light more targets up easier. That makes a Scout's life a LOT safer. You have about 20% better Scan Precision than an Assault, but only about 10% improvement on Profile.
Quote:When SG shoot you from a long distance - yeah they can take 1/3 of your shields but they will never kill you from 15m away even if they land a few shots and returned fire from distance with any other weapon is sure death to the guy with the SG.
I've had times where I go up against another Shotgunner, and I get one-shotted at a range where my Shotgun is literally dealing 0 damage. AT 15 - 20m range, if you don't have Sharpshooter trained, you can barely scratch a target. At 20+, you won't even hit the target. With Sharpshooter maxed out, you can one-shot low-tier Assault suits at 15m. At 20+, you can two-shot them, and the one-shot range against even a decently-tanked Scout is pretty insane (although it's still only a Scout). |
Regular Trooper
Rebelles A Quebec
Orion Empire
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.29 08:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:I think that SG is perceived as OP more so than it actually is because when it kills it does so fast. As main SG scout i can tell you that it takes a lot of luck and effort to ambush red dots. There are countless times when I jump around a corner to ambush someone and instead I find that there is half a squad there that my radar never picked up. When you're turning the corner and finding a lot of enemies who you didn't pick up before trying to pounce, it's because their Scan Profile was low enough to hide them from your Scan Precision. If you're running an Assault, that's probably why. If you're running a Scout, either equip a module or train skills to improve your suit's Precision, and you'll light more targets up easier. That makes a Scout's life a LOT safer. You have about 20% better Scan Precision than an Assault, but only about 10% improvement on Profile. Quote:When SG shoot you from a long distance - yeah they can take 1/3 of your shields but they will never kill you from 15m away even if they land a few shots and returned fire from distance with any other weapon is sure death to the guy with the SG. I've had times where I go up against another Shotgunner, and I get one-shotted at a range where my Shotgun is literally dealing 0 damage. AT 15 - 20m range, if you don't have Sharpshooter trained, you can barely scratch ra target. At 20+, you won't even hit the target. With Sharpshooter maxed out, you can one-shot low-tier Assault suits at 15m. At 20+, you can two-shot them, and the one-shot range against even a decently-tanked Scout is pretty insane (although it's still only a Scout).
Sorry sir nova but advanced SG with SS profencie 3 and SG lvl its 11ft for max damage, we tested it |
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