I dont see a problem. Skill into forge guns.

Yesterday in ambushes, I took down at least 4 to 5 tanks. They were not best out there, but was able to do it on my own.
When you have a good tank on the field, then it can be tricky but not impossible.
Teamwork, good AV stuff, or if you fail in that, one orbital should do the work if you can get it in ambush.

i Guarentee that if 3 forge gunners with adv or proto guns spawned on your team and waited for the train to come down those 3 tanks woulda started to run pretty quickly... and for 1/10th the sp and ISK cost

This argument is bull****. Youre almos NEVER going to be in a match where 2 or 3 random players have skilled into proto forge then, even IF this occurs, you are suggesting that they all just happen to be standing in the same place like they are gathered around the campfire waiting for the Sagaris Soul Train to come rolling past. What version of dust are you playing?!

We are too far along skill point wise for forge guns alone to be a successfull counter against teams fielding multiple tanks. HAV fittings are getting better and better every day.

The proto forge gun can pop any tank and if it has elevation, can wreck infantry too. I DEMAND A NERF!!

i Guarentee that if 3 forge gunners with adv or proto guns spawned on your team and waited for the train to come down those 3 tanks woulda started to run pretty quickly... and for 1/10th the sp and ISK cost


All you have said is that your pissed that a single guy with 2 points into granades cant single handedly take down 3 tanks, just annoy them.


Working as Intended, build a proper anti AV fit and play with friends if it bothers you. I had the same trick pulled on me today and guess what... they were short 3 tanks at the end of the match.


Its balanced, its fine.


(edit for hilarity: We took out the tanks with 2 Heavy forge gunners, one with ADV forge and me in a full militia heavy forge, and a few AV granades on the side)

This argument is bull****. Youre almos NEVER going to be in a match where 2 or 3 random players have skilled into proto forge then, even IF this occurs, you are suggesting that they all just happen to be standing in the same place like they are gathered around the campfire waiting for the Sagaris Soul Train to come rolling past. What version of dust are you playing?!

We are too far along skill point wise for forge guns alone to be a successfull counter against teams fielding multiple tanks. HAV fittings are getting better and better every day.

*do not bypass the forum censor* - CCP Eterne

My tank runs on tears.

Yeah, I'll be sure to rely on a random pub match players to bring proper AV from now on

Get real dude. Would be nice if CCP included a feature in the game which shows who is speced into what before the match starts. That way I can leave the match before 3 noob tankers dominate without resistance.

Stop defending garbage gameplay mechanics, fanboy.

Thing is, people spec into tanks because our first objective In every game is to win. AV is so situational, the SP put into it could easily be placed in other areas to keep you alive against a scout, and out DPS an assault. People with 500k SP simply will not start the game thinking "hey. I'm going to give up shotguns, mass drivers, assault rifles, heavy machine guns, tanks, dropships, snipers, lasers, and everything else that makes the game worthwhile playing in the majority of scenarios to specialise in anti-vehicle weapons, which are extremely situational and make me as easy to kill as a snail without a shell against a merc with half my SP who has speced into assault rifles."

No. Currently the best tanks are run by those who've used the 100k SP from closed beta, the week head start, the experience from closed beta and that event where vehicles were cheap, passive and active boosters, all on their rolling death machine.

Those who've specialised into AV simply cannot just overlook everything else. Swarm launchers will need a scout or assault build to earn them ISK. Heavies too, need to specialise into other skills to keep them alive, now that more and more people understand how to frustrate a fatty.

I understand that tankers do not always run tanks. But given the above bonuses, they don't need to specialise into anything else.

I play with only the starter fits sometimes, when I'm running solo or even in a squad without a heavy to support. I still can go positive. I still kill people with advanced gear. And when I see that golden opportunity to whip out my dropship, I pilot it in militia gear, having never broken into my expensive suits all game. And it rocks.

These opportunities, at the current state of the game, appear more frequently for tanks, and the danger is less, I'd presume, if your tank is speced into as far as my dropship, and I haven't even used sp boosters, ever.

So until heavy aircraft come out with giant incendiary bombs that turn your tanks into molten steel, have fun ruling the ground. The sky is where it's at.

Your single tank would have been devastated. More like your noob-squad of tanks run on tears, cause you have no talent and have to rely on numbers to dominate non-squad random players on the other team

Sad most tankers have no gunplay skill... But I guess it makes sense. Your last resort would have been a heavy Such FPS noobs.

ITT: "I can't kill three people who are working together by myself with low quality equipment! UNFAIR! Nerf teamwork!"

As a person who goes tank hunting with no AV skills beyond nanohives and granades 2, im going to call bullshit on your entire paragraph, i gave nothing up to do that, and for things out of range of the granades, i hop in a militia heavy no training needed forge gun suit and finish the job

well tbh theirs 7 paragraphs there XD
paragraph1 is sorta true.

Whining about not being able to take down high-end tanks with Standard AV nades (yes, they're Packed, but that's still Standard) on your own? Not to mention they were shield tanks and you were using an anti-armor weapon...

Skill into proper AV or team-up.

Paragraph 1 is utter BS, i gave up literally zero SP to my Anti tank shinanigans and on my own i scare the crap out of non marauder tanks.

Granades 2, packed AV granades and its usefull for ANY build ever. with that and a death LAV you can suicide tanks till they stop brining them in at a mere 4000isk per death.

Hey heavy solo player, I am assault 100%, AV nades are all I got and I solo it 95% of the time too. From all the anti-tanker whining (much of it IMPS), it would seem AV nades are the end-all for tanks, but I guess not?... so just a bunch of whiners?

Would seem so, as I have lobbed dozens of AV nades at high end tanks without anything happening. Would need at least 20 packed AV nades to actually get anything near taking them out.

I've played with/against you somewhat frequently, your one major saving grace is your near-invincible heavy suit. I could stack several complex damage mods yet your health barely budges. Try playing a weak assault class for once... who's main role is anti-infantry, not anti-vehicle.

Heavies were designed primarily for AV, yet most of them use that strength against infantry. So what does that say about heavies who are playing anti-infantry, while assaults try to take out vehicles with little hope?

Bottom line is, play your damn role. Us assaults are taking up the slack of the heavy turds who use their strengths against peasant infantry players, when their main goal should be AV.

This game would change for the better if the HMG was completely removed, forcing heavies to play the role they are supposed to play.

ITT: "I can't kill three people who are working together by myself with low quality equipment! UNFAIR! Nerf teamwork!"

with 3 tanks on the field youre actually fighting up to 9 people.

a L3 forge with 2 dmg mods does about 10% dmg to a decent gunlogi, good luck getting 10 shots on one, as youll need even more to prevent him repping it.

put 3 on the table and you basically need a full squad of well specced AV plus at least one full squad of support troops to stop the av getting toasted. the av has to have LOS on the target yet not get shot by any of the 3 tanks or the infantry.

.

with 3 tanks on the field youre actually fighting up to 9 people.

a L3 forge with 2 dmg mods does about 10% dmg to a decent gunlogi, good luck getting 10 shots on one, as youll need even more to prevent him repping it.

put 3 on the table and you basically need a full squad of well specced AV plus at least one full squad of support troops to stop the av getting toasted. the av has to have LOS on the target yet not get shot by any of the 3 tanks or the infantry.

the skill and coordination to do this is far greater than that needed to cruise around nuking red dots with your tank buddies, hiding when your 8 k of shield goes below 66%

yeh they seem like pathetic cowards and make that match a miserable farce but theyve spent their millions of SP getting there and their millions of ISK on HAVs precisely so they can reap this reward (and our tears). thats just the way they roll.

with 3 tanks on the field youre actually fighting up to 9 people.

a L3 forge with 2 dmg mods does about 10% dmg to a decent gunlogi, good luck getting 10 shots on one, as youll need even more to prevent him repping it.

put 3 on the table and you basically need a full squad of well specced AV plus at least one full squad of support troops to stop the av getting toasted. the av has to have LOS on the target yet not get shot by any of the 3 tanks or the infantry.

the skill and coordination to do this is far greater than that needed to cruise around nuking red dots with your tank buddies, hiding when your 8 k of shield goes below 66%

yeh they seem like pathetic cowards and make that match a miserable farce but theyve spent their millions of SP getting there and their millions of ISK on HAVs precisely so they can reap this reward (and our tears). thats just the way they roll.

You seem to be mad at me. Please keep it coming.

As I said, either skill into AV or team-up with AV folks.

Secondly in earlier builds I was pure Assault (and I also play Assault regularly in this build, even though I'm primary Heavy), so I have done that.

As for you not able to take me down, maybe you should try not to charge me head on by yourself? Just maybe?

I've also skilled into Forge Guns and use them whenever there's enemy vehicles on the battlefield.

did you know direct hits with Forge guns do considerable more damage?
those Forge guns will kill a Madruger in about 4 shots so a Gunnlogi will die just as fast (if not faster)

Not gonna lie, I was laughing most of the time due to the ridiculousness of the match I just played. But in retrospect, it is a massive game-breaking thing to witness.

3 sagris/gun-logi tanks on the bowl map in regular Ambush, sported by WTF and Seraphim. All rolling as a tight knit group (like a pack IMPs in a pub match). I brought all the packed AV nades I could, but it did absolutely nothing to these tanks. At best it got them to back off a tiny bit, but even after lobbing 4-8 packed AV's as a single tank as concentrated AV, it still did relatively nothing to them. And even if it did, they were a train of tanks, one right after the other (literally).

Something has to be done about this, either by map restrictions that limit the amount of vehicles based on the map size/type/etc (for example, bowl map would only be allowed ONE tank at a time), or flat out vehicle/tank-free ambush matches.

It is downright cowardly to do this, tanks are the only thing in this game that are 95% guaranteed to win based on how much Sp/ISK you put into them. The same cannot be said about prototype anything/everything for infantry suits, as they can easily die by full blown militia gear.

as people play , they get better and earn skill points !! come on now djin , u think packed avs would own tanks forever :) .... ? REALLY ... ?
as the tanks get stronger so should ur avs !! yeah i used 2 own tanks with packed av's :) that was when the tanks were low end ,
now i have EX-11s and they work just fine ....
Tanks are geting better , but ive got LVL 5 nades now so i doubt they will be a big issue :) Lai dai packed Mofos AVIT :)

if all else fails dude , get someone to flux the tank first then you use your AV nades , or just even skill up into forgegun if it botheres u so much dude :) , SIMPLES !

'' GET GOOD OR GET DYING !!!''

Peace :)

you clearly diddnt read the whole thing, i meantioned that we did it with a single advanced forge, and a militia forge with blueberrys adding in with AV nades

I have just come to accept tanks as part of the territory with Dust. And Pub tanks are becoming much more the norm. Heck I played a game yesterday where a team with 2 full squads of corps dropped a gunnlogi in a game vs 1 squad of IE training and randoms. We got redlined fast as not a single blue dot did anything the entire game other than die. I unfortunately dont have enough skill to take out a tank and all of its infantry defenders. I personally dont understand why you would bring out a tank vs almost entirely randoms but to each their own.

I have just come to accept tanks as part of the territory with Dust. And Pub tanks are becoming much more the norm. Heck I played a game yesterday where a team with 2 full squads of corps dropped a gunnlogi in a game vs 1 squad of IE training and randoms. We got redlined fast as not a single blue dot did anything the entire game other than die. I unfortunately dont have enough skill to take out a tank and all of its infantry defenders. I personally dont understand why you would bring out a tank vs almost entirely randoms but to each their own.

with 3 tanks on the field youre actually fighting up to 9 people.

a L3 forge with 2 dmg mods does about 10% dmg to a decent gunlogi, good luck getting 10 shots on one, as youll need even more to prevent him repping it.

put 3 on the table and you basically need a full squad of well specced AV plus at least one full squad of support troops to stop the av getting toasted. the av has to have LOS on the target yet not get shot by any of the 3 tanks or the infantry.

the skill and coordination to do this is far greater than that needed to cruise around nuking red dots with your tank buddies, hiding when your 8 k of shield goes below 66%

yeh they seem like pathetic cowards and make that match a miserable farce but theyve spent their millions of SP getting there and their millions of ISK on HAVs precisely so they can reap this reward (and our tears). thats just the way they roll.

I joined the Singapore Game Show last night and things were similar. Few tanks and experienced players against beginners. I wonder if this nonsense is doing this game any good because this is obviously no fun.

Not gonna lie, I was laughing most of the time due to the ridiculousness of the match I just played. But in retrospect, it is a massive game-breaking thing to witness.

3 sagris/gun-logi tanks on the bowl map in regular Ambush, sported by WTF and Seraphim. All rolling as a tight knit group (like a pack IMPs in a pub match). I brought all the packed AV nades I could, but it did absolutely nothing to these tanks. At best it got them to back off a tiny bit, but even after lobbing 4-8 packed AV's as a single tank as concentrated AV, it still did relatively nothing to them. And even if it did, they were a train of tanks, one right after the other (literally).

Something has to be done about this, either by map restrictions that limit the amount of vehicles based on the map size/type/etc (for example, bowl map would only be allowed ONE tank at a time), or flat out vehicle/tank-free ambush matches.

It is downright cowardly to do this, tanks are the only thing in this game that are 95% guaranteed to win based on how much Sp/ISK you put into them. The same cannot be said about prototype anything/everything for infantry suits, as they can easily die by full blown militia gear.

Tanks need to be removed from ambush and better AV weapons need to be available such as direct fire weapons for assault class. Also rail turrets and supply depots do not need to be destroyable. Tanks take out supply depots and turets before you can even hack them. If this is how they want DUST to be then it will lose its infantry player.

The real problem is map size. 3-4 tanks in Ambush can basically cover the entire battlefield, effortlessly shutting down all red RDV deliveries and routing any red blobs before they can set up a proper AV response.

I had some free time this morning, so I decided to check your math.

Using a standard blaster and standard small missile turrets (they're the cheapest, PG and CPU wise) I was able to construct a HAV with 12k eHP. This is the absolute peak I was able to get, eHP wise. It had no shield booster.

If I fit a shield booster I was able to get it to about 10k eHP. Mind you this is with Shield Control V (932k SP), Engineering V(310k SP) and Circuitry V (310k SP), Shield Adaptation III (~350k SP), and PG upgrades III (310k SP). On top of the SP involved in getting to the HAV's hull.

So, what would it take to bring down such a fearsome beastie? Surely a squad of heavies could blast at that all day and not make a dent!

Nope, turns out three people in militia heavy suits with no SP invested could take it out in about ten seconds. It would take a total of nine hits from a 1200 damage/shot militia forge to eat through those shields. Each shot requires a 3.5 second charge, assuming no SP invested into Forge Gun Op. Only eight shots with Weaponry V. If we assume (as you stated) an advanced forge gun and 2x complex damage mods you're looking at six shots to put it in armor. You'll probably need a seventh of finish it off. Unless we give that same forger Forge Gun Proficiency III, which boosts the damage a good bit.

Not gonna lie, I was laughing most of the time due to the ridiculousness of the match I just played. But in retrospect, it is a massive game-breaking thing to witness.

3 sagris/gun-logi tanks on the bowl map in regular Ambush, sported by WTF and Seraphim. All rolling as a tight knit group (like a pack IMPs in a pub match). I brought all the packed AV nades I could, but it did absolutely nothing to these tanks. At best it got them to back off a tiny bit, but even after lobbing 4-8 packed AV's as a single tank as concentrated AV, it still did relatively nothing to them. And even if it did, they were a train of tanks, one right after the other (literally).

Something has to be done about this, either by map restrictions that limit the amount of vehicles based on the map size/type/etc (for example, bowl map would only be allowed ONE tank at a time), or flat out vehicle/tank-free ambush matches.

It is downright cowardly to do this, tanks are the only thing in this game that are 95% guaranteed to win based on how much Sp/ISK you put into them. The same cannot be said about prototype anything/everything for infantry suits, as they can easily die by full blown militia gear.

you know whats better, killing the drivers before they get to their tanks :p

Don't like tanks then fit an Anti tank class
it is very simple
people cry way too much
(before you fail troll me
No i don't drive tanks)
also if you are going to say "oh no i have to skill into av"
guess what...
they skilled into tanks

As a tank driver, I fear the days when friendly fire is implemented. All those bluedots wanting to drive my tank...

/shudder

I was there; the enemy tanks kept rolling in at some point.


Have a bunch of AV fittings ready and keep the Militia one at hand.

As soon as you hear the delivery ship, get in position and try to get cover and a Lock-On.

Before respawning, check your map quickly to plan a strategic deployment (getting out of harms way quickly and position to get a good line of fire).


I had a blast hunting those HAV!

could CCP just set the match making up so squads that have similar set -ups be matched against each other?
ex)
Instead of randomly putting squads in matches where they could end up on the same team, set the matchmaking to automatically match the squad inventory with another squad inventory and put them on opposite teams.
God that's a horrible explanation.

basically if one squad of WTF had tanks then the game would try to match them against another squad who had tanks.
you can do infantry squads the same way too

Good idea, but I do not think it will solve it completely. I have for example ~12 tanks in my inventory but only rarely use them, mostly when I get tired of being hit by snipers. If the opposite team are running tanks I will rather pull out my Forge Gun and chase them around. Maybe it could cross check both inventory and also how skill points are used, I have 12 tanks but no skill points in LAV or HAV.

Or maybe they just throw up another mode where you can't deploy tanks?

I mean I kinda see OPs point.

I'm not saying tanks are OP but they require teamwork to beat so why are they useable in a mode where EVERYONE knows teamwork doesn't exist?

All this whining should be fixed if ccp ever gets around to making the high low and null secs. That way all the randoms who are new can stay in their little area while all the people with experience battle it out elsewhere.

Don't take this the wrong way, because it isn't meant as a troll. But don't you think it's ironic you're in a pub-stomping corp, complaining about someone using tools in the game to pub-stomp you?

Do I like tanks in ambush as an infantry player? Only if they are milita. But I won't make a post complaining about them, they are another tool to use. (a big blunt one that hurts)

bad idea
ALL INFANTRY would play this as its easier for them as it suits their specialisations leaving only tankers and AV specs on ambush.

AV specs will kill tanks causing them to quit (afterall AV kills HAV easily so 16 AVs will insta kill ANY tank)


therefore tankers would be only able to play skirmish which takes too long and pays too little (SP and ISK)