Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 06:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
Here's why and honestly I don't see the issue here and why we still have these functioning the way they are.
I know no one wants it to change, because its an easy way to dispatch vehicles in general.
But how is locking on to a target different from an aim bot, one that even follows you around moutains?
It takes no skill, I had a few people watch me play the other day while using swarms.
They've never even played dust and were complaining about what garbage they are.
Personally I think we need to go back to manual fire but with 0 splash damage to infantry to avoid the bazooka problem.
Of course, tanks are pretty hated in dust, LAV's have small chances.
No one wants to see tanks around they can't solo.
With my level 1 swarms and level 1 Av grenades, I rip up gunnlogis and madrugars by myself.
If they're super fit, well madrugars that is, they'll be running in no time, unless my bro is in squad with more swarms.
At least AV grenades you can get away from,
Forge gun, well they have to aim that,
Proximity mines, tanks have an alert system for those.
Why do we still have these crappy swarms working the way they do?
I mean large missile turrets, well ya know. Aren't swarms missiles too
just a thought. |
JaZZa01
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
81
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 07:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
They'd have to speed them up considerably, and tighten the rocket spread.
That said, I'd prefer a manual single rocket launcher. Though there is the infantry problem. They could just do something similar to MAG and hinder movement when using the launcher, and make it largely ineffective against infantry unless it's a DIRECT hit. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 07:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=44430&find=unread
swarm fix |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
14
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 07:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Or maybe vehicles could be warned of a swarm lock giving them chance to escape? I never use swarms personally as I don't see too many tanks or anything, probably because nobody wants to deploy them if the swarms are as powerful as you suggest.
What about making the damage weaker for swarms? I've been told 1 or 2 hits can take out a dropship and you only need 1 to take out a tank. That sounds ridiculous to me. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 07:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:Or maybe vehicles could be warned of a swarm lock giving them chance to escape? I never use swarms personally as I don't see too many tanks or anything, probably because nobody wants to deploy them if the swarms are as powerful as you suggest.
What about making the damage weaker for swarms? I've been told 1 or 2 hits can take out a dropship and you only need 1 to take out a tank. That sounds ridiculous to me.
I don't think damage is a huge issue, as I said before too, make 0 splash to infantry so it can't harm infantry.
But, if it was manual fire one could more easily avoid the damage.
Militia swarms are manageable in a upper fitted tank, ie madrugar.
But proto is just crazy, but would be fine if they actually had to aim the launcher to hit you.
I also like the post above about the increase in swarm speed, that's a great idea for manual fire.
|
Patoman Radiant
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
53
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 08:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
considering how long they take to reach target you need seeking.
Otherwise, good luck hitting anything not point blank. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 08:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Patoman Radiant wrote:considering how long they take to reach target you need seeking.
Otherwise, good luck hitting anything not point blank.
Read the posts above, before posting.
Increasing their speed was discussed.
Which would solve the reach target problem.
This is an fps, it shouldn't have an aimbot of any kind in it. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 10:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Unless they have changed their mind, there was going to be a new dumbfire av weapon. Although, I suspect you just want the lockon function removed from swarms and be dumbfire also. I would not object to that since that means I could have fun doing my suicide runs again. Although, the missile speed would need to be about as fast as the forge gun. However, this type of change would make dropships much harder to kill. I for the life of me can't hit a moving dropship with a forge gun.
All in all though, the swarms are probably good where they are. They do small dmg (compare to forge), but have guided missiles. It is fairly easy to modify the lav so it can take a hit from a standard swarm, and if a person wants to put alot of isk into it, Ive seen them tanked like a tank. It's just that very few ever call anything other than the free one.
http://youtu.be/ZVy6h8h9niU?t=3m37s |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 10:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pent'noir wrote:Unless they have changed their mind, there was going to be a new dumbfire av weapon. Although, I suspect you just want the lockon function removed from swarms and be dumbfire also. I would not object to that since that means I could have fun doing my suicide runs again. Although, the missile speed would need to be about as fast as the forge gun. However, this type of change would make dropships much harder to kill. I for the life of me can't hit a moving dropship with a forge gun. All in all though, the swarms are probably good where they are. They do small dmg (compare to forge), but have guided missiles. It is fairly easy to modify the lav so it can take a hit from a standard swarm, and if a person wants to put alot of isk into it, Ive seen them tanked like a tank. It's just that very few ever call anything other than the free one. http://youtu.be/ZVy6h8h9niU?t=3m37s
Ya that's kinda what I'm asking for.
Leave everything for swarms but remove splash damage(for infantry), increase speed, manual fire.
Then they'd be great.
Everything should be dumb fire. Auto lock is well, a joke. |
Eris Ernaga
Super Smash Bros Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 11:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
If you are in your tank and can not hit a swarm launcher player you are doing something wrong. While I still hate Anti vehicle units mainly swarm launchers I have a all knew respect for them. When you actually learn to aim the weapon on your tank you will realize why. I have gotten better aim with my rail gun on my tank then with my sniper rifle and if you did not know a good offensive is a good defense. Not only do swarm launchers give away their positions unlike forge guns but assault armor which is mostly used by swarm launchers are super thin I can own them in 1 shot with my rail gun after they give away there position.
If you are getting hit by a swarm launcher simply blow him away if there are multiple anti vehicle units retreat behind a mountain and activate your modules poke your head around the mountain and blow them away. I mostly camp my red line with my tank because it has positions where enemy's can not or would not want to go. If you are knew to tanking and don't wanna loose it simply camp the red line. |
|
Delirium Inferno
Chernova Industries
34
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 11:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
I don't think the swarm launchers need to be changed at all. If you want a dumb fire rocket wait until they add the Gallente plasma launcher.
Your argument is that swarm launchers take no skill. Your fallacy is that you are using "skill" interchangeably with "aim." Have you ever used a swarm launcher before to try and take out a vehicle? No I'm not talking about those MLT vehicles that take two shots to destroy, I'm talking about those super beefy tanks and dropships. The only way you're going to take one of those down - regardless of which swarm launcher you have - is to continually pursue it and be relentless until it goes up in smoke. The pursuit is the part that takes skill. No vehicle is going to stay in the same spot so you have to be on the move, however since the swarm launcher takes up a light weapon slot you have to rely on a pistol or submachine gun to take care of any infantry that gets in your way during the pursuit. You have to keep looking for cover since your swarms are a dead give away for snipers. And lastly you only get 6 shots. It's going to take more than 6 shots to take down the beefier tanks and dropships, but if you keep at it you will damage them faster than they can heal. So you need to drop a nanohive somewhere, and this adds in another factor you must manage during your pursuit.
There's a lot more to skill than just aiming. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 12:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:I don't think the swarm launchers need to be changed at all. If you want a dumb fire rocket wait until they add the Gallente plasma launcher.
Your argument is that swarm launchers take no skill. Your fallacy is that you are using "skill" interchangeably with "aim." Have you ever used a swarm launcher before to try and take out a vehicle? No I'm not talking about those MLT vehicles that take two shots to destroy, I'm talking about those super beefy tanks and dropships. The only way you're going to take one of those down - regardless of which swarm launcher you have - is to continually pursue it and be relentless until it goes up in smoke. The pursuit is the part that takes skill. No vehicle is going to stay in the same spot so you have to be on the move, however since the swarm launcher takes up a light weapon slot you have to rely on a pistol or submachine gun to take care of any infantry that gets in your way during the pursuit. You have to keep looking for cover since your swarms are a dead give away for snipers. And lastly you only get 6 shots. It's going to take more than 6 shots to take down the beefier tanks and dropships, but if you keep at it you will damage them faster than they can heal. So you need to drop a nanohive somewhere, and this adds in another factor you must manage during your pursuit.
There's a lot more to skill than just aiming.
If you read the original post, ya I have. Mlt tanks are a joke.
Swarms are a bigger joke, exactly as the guy posted above you "learn to aim your gun"
Alright, so swarm launcher at max range, can peak above a rock, keep in mind your blaster can't touch him from that distance, but even if the turret had that range, the bullets will hit the terrain and not the person sticking far enough out to get the lock on you.
Try the turret sometime, skill Tank
the current tank turrets at certain angles, namely not on flat surface but if someone is high or low to your tank, the bullets will always hit terrain.
Also stack damage mods on an armor suit, please swarms become sick especially with skill, have you used a proto swarm with 3 complex damage mods?
Drop a nanohive 400m behind a rock or in your redline since the swarm range is usually almost the entire map. so OP.
imagine the guys using their av grenades, they have to drop a nano right next to the tank lol.
as I put in OP, I can see why people will be against a manual fire.
because it makes it harder for you.
as stated, simple,
Fast as forge gun missiles, manual fire, 0 splash to infantry.
everything else stays the same but the "aim bot" is removed and the swarms actually make you have the need to predict where your target will be, like the forge gun.
This would fix the swarm vs drop ship as well as swarm vs lav.
if you think swarms are hard to kill these things with, please do this,
go proto, stack damage mods, have over 200+ armor buff with local rep, stay at max swarm range.
guarantee you the tank wont be able to touch you. |
Panther Alpha
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 12:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have to agree with this guy. Is far to easy to lock into a tank, find cover in a save place ( like behind a rock ), and shoot your Swarm missiles around the rock .
Just another Over Powering thing in Dust 514....... it should be call : "Dust OP" |
Delirium Inferno
Chernova Industries
34
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 12:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have spec'd into tanks. Swarm launchers range is pretty large but by no means the entire map. And the only map you might have success with swarm launchers from that range anyways is Manus Peak, but even then if you are trying to get as far away as possible some of your swarms will likely hit something else on the way or die out plus the tank will be able to see them coming and easily get out of the way.
If you are in a tank getting destroyed by a swarm launcher from that far away you deserve to die. For swarm launchers to really be effective though you have to close the gap which makes you prone to attack from all over the place. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
14
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 14:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Why are we talking 0 splash against infantry? This is the only part I don't understand.
This discussion seems to be turning into more of an argument with no side really having a definitive piece of evidence that can win this. It's all "well I could do this if this so why can't you?"
For the record I am perfectly up for changing the way swarm launchers work and adding in sone "skill based" launchers. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 14:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
You do realize swarms will be used in the future to shoot down fighters which go much faster than current.
Also plasma launchers are no lock arc shots lightweights and once in then a nerf to swarms can be made for their 'convince' |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 19:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Delirium Inferno wrote:I don't think the swarm launchers need to be changed at all. If you want a dumb fire rocket wait until they add the Gallente plasma launcher.
Your argument is that swarm launchers take no skill. Your fallacy is that you are using "skill" interchangeably with "aim." Have you ever used a swarm launcher before to try and take out a vehicle? No I'm not talking about those MLT vehicles that take two shots to destroy, I'm talking about those super beefy tanks and dropships. The only way you're going to take one of those down - regardless of which swarm launcher you have - is to continually pursue it and be relentless until it goes up in smoke. The pursuit is the part that takes skill. No vehicle is going to stay in the same spot so you have to be on the move, however since the swarm launcher takes up a light weapon slot you have to rely on a pistol or submachine gun to take care of any infantry that gets in your way during the pursuit. You have to keep looking for cover since your swarms are a dead give away for snipers. And lastly you only get 6 shots. It's going to take more than 6 shots to take down the beefier tanks and dropships, but if you keep at it you will damage them faster than they can heal. So you need to drop a nanohive somewhere, and this adds in another factor you must manage during your pursuit.
There's a lot more to skill than just aiming.
^this. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 20:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
So much butthurt all over this thread, a better method would be to add a lock on time based on a factor that currently exists but doesn't have a.prominent penalty. If only someobe was smart enough to make a thread that suggests such, oh wait... |
Alex Bradshaw
Carbon 7
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 23:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:I have to agree with this guy. Is far to easy to lock into a tank, find cover in a save place ( like behind a rock ), and shoot your Swarm missiles around the rock . Just another Over Powering thing in Dust 514....... it should be call : "Dust OP"
The point is the swarm launcher should not have a safe place if you have infantry support. This stops tanks from dominating the battle, a tank must have infantry support to deal with swarm launchers, + the tank must keep moving to attack the swarm launcher. If your tank is destroyed by swarms, your situational awareness is wrong, and you do not have proper infantry support.
No need to change swarms |
Heimdallr69
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
130
|
Posted - 2013.02.17 23:54:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alex Bradshaw wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:I have to agree with this guy. Is far to easy to lock into a tank, find cover in a save place ( like behind a rock ), and shoot your Swarm missiles around the rock . Just another Over Powering thing in Dust 514....... it should be call : "Dust OP" The point is the swarm launcher should not have a safe place if you have infantry support. This stops tanks from dominating the battle, a tank must have infantry support to deal with swarm launchers, + the tank must keep moving to attack the swarm launcher. If your tank is destroyed by swarms, your situational awareness is wrong, and you do not have proper infantry support. No need to change swarms Wrong..my militia swarms smash tanks all the time..lock on hide behind something shoot up auto lock does the work swarms take no skill at all |
|
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 00:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:You do realize swarms will be used in the future to shoot down fighters which go much faster than current.
Also plasma launchers are no lock arc shots lightweights and once in then a nerf to swarms can be made for their 'convince'
Swarms will never be able to catch fighters, let alone shoot them down UNLESS,
We go to manual fire, high speed fire, like forge gun.
Then you may hit a fighter, the fighter argument you made has no place, there isn't a comparison. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 00:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:Why are we talking 0 splash against infantry? This is the only part I don't understand.
This discussion seems to be turning into more of an argument with no side really having a definitive piece of evidence that can win this. It's all "well I could do this if this so why can't you?"
For the record I am perfectly up for changing the way swarm launchers work and adding in sone "skill based" launchers.
Dust used to have swarms manual fire, they we're changed back to auto lock as a quick fix because people were using them against infantry like a bazooka. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 00:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Alex Bradshaw wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:I have to agree with this guy. Is far to easy to lock into a tank, find cover in a save place ( like behind a rock ), and shoot your Swarm missiles around the rock . Just another Over Powering thing in Dust 514....... it should be call : "Dust OP" The point is the swarm launcher should not have a safe place if you have infantry support. This stops tanks from dominating the battle, a tank must have infantry support to deal with swarm launchers, + the tank must keep moving to attack the swarm launcher. If your tank is destroyed by swarms, your situational awareness is wrong, and you do not have proper infantry support. No need to change swarms
I honestly have never had a tank kill me in my swarm fit or his infantry.
It's far to easy to hide and then peek out to get the shot off.
While I agree infantry support for a tank is necessary, that only looks good on paper.
I prefer fighting AV infantry and using my burst tank madrugar to give a good fight.
But there's the point. All other variations of AV have some serious cons.
As listed above.
Forge, aim, slow movement, charge up,
AV grenade, takes multiple, close range, nanohive.
Proximity mine, tanks have alert systems for these, damage is also minimal with hardners and buffer.
Swarms, peek a boo tactics from behind rocks, can lock then jump off back off rock on other side of you, then fire. 400m range, turn corners, when the first one hit you, the other 3 in clip are already in the air, drop ships cannot avoid them(a lot of effort and luck to take minimal damage) LAV's will live if lucky.
Auto aim is not good for any game. Let alone auto lock, auto turn corners.
If you look at every other weapon ect. In game, nothing else has such a simplicity. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
168
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 01:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Interesting.
Remove the lock on mechanic? Yeah. Because there's no such thing as a lock on weapon in reality right? I know the game isn't real, but seriously... Suggestions given to make a zero lock SWARM viable would just turn it into an assault equipable forge gun. I see what you're doing and I say you're lazy, If you want to use a Forge Gun, then spawn in the dire sentinel or spend the SP for the actual heavy suit and Forge Gun skills.
For those that want zero blast damage to infantry unless it's a direct hit, then you should be calling for the same limitation on all explosive weaponry making even MD and grenades do zero damage unless they are actually touching an enemy when they detonate.
There are those saying that SWARMs follow targets around obstacles and there's no way to take cover. I can tell you from experience that you must be doing something wrong. I regularly gun for two tankers in my clan and both of them constantly and successfully take cover behind hills, cargo containers, large rocks, buildings, etc when they need to evade swarms.
Yes, they're easy to use. No, they aren't the "I Win Button" many are making them out to be.
Finally... I can't believe I saw someone advising others to camp the redline... What can I say but those who do it, when their team isn't redlined, are just lazy, chicken hearted, mentally underdeveloped, and worthless to their team. They will never excel because they will never get far enough into the game to make anything of themselves that will actually be of use. Was actually in a match last night where there were two tanks out on both sides. We lost one tank, but our remaining tank kept rolling around staying in the fight supporting our troopers. One of their tanks fell, before either MCC shield was below 40%, and the other one went and hid behind the row of buildings behind their red line and stayed there for the rest of the match too afraid to go support it's team, giving the team I was on a much easier victory. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 01:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Interesting.
Remove the lock on mechanic? Yeah. Because there's no such thing as a lock on weapon in reality right? I know the game isn't real, but seriously... Suggestions given to make a zero lock SWARM viable would just turn it into an assault equipable forge gun. I see what you're doing and I say you're lazy, If you want to use a Forge Gun, then spawn in the dire sentinel or spend the SP for the actual heavy suit and Forge Gun skills.
For those that want zero blast damage to infantry unless it's a direct hit, then you should be calling for the same limitation on all explosive weaponry making even MD and grenades do zero damage unless they are actually touching an enemy when they detonate.
There are those saying that SWARMs follow targets around obstacles and there's no way to take cover. I can tell you from experience that you must be doing something wrong. I regularly gun for two tankers in my clan and both of them constantly and successfully take cover behind hills, cargo containers, large rocks, buildings, etc when they need to evade swarms.
Yes, they're easy to use. No, they aren't the "I Win Button" many are making them out to be.
Finally... I can't believe I saw someone advising others to camp the redline... What can I say but those who do it, when their team isn't redlined, are just lazy, chicken hearted, mentally underdeveloped, and worthless to their team. They will never excel because they will never get far enough into the game to make anything of themselves that will actually be of use. Was actually in a match last night where there were two tanks out on both sides. We lost one tank, but our remaining tank kept rolling around staying in the fight supporting our troopers. One of their tanks fell, before either MCC shield was below 40%, and the other one went and hid behind the row of buildings behind their red line and stayed there for the rest of the match too afraid to go support it's team, giving the team I was on a much easier victory.
I appreciate the post,
I'm not making swarms into any kind of I win button. Just a to simple to use button.
I've been here since the first build, I have skilled into everything, many times over.
Yes in real life they have auto lock weapons, and subs have nukes on them, fighter jets have lock on missiles ect.
So, here's a good question,
If tanks had a missile system set up to auto lock AV weapons firing on them, which would consist of 6-7 seeking missiles.
How many crazy threads would go up about that?
Also the same limitation had been imposed on the other AV weapons already, except its minimal splash.
If you read all the posts you would see we were manual fire for a build and what stopped that was infantry getting hit with it like a bazooka, causing wide spread QQ so the feature was removed.
To me, AV grenades and swarms = I will win against your tank, I haven't failed yet.
If you are already behind cover when swarms have a lock, ie they lock you, you hide, they fire, it will hit the side of the rock.
However if already in the air and you move, they will follow you around the rock. No escape.
And finally,
I say your lazy for not wanting to put some effort into the swarm launcher. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
168
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 02:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Interesting.
Remove the lock on mechanic? Yeah. Because there's no such thing as a lock on weapon in reality right? I know the game isn't real, but seriously... Suggestions given to make a zero lock SWARM viable would just turn it into an assault equipable forge gun. I see what you're doing and I say you're lazy, If you want to use a Forge Gun, then spawn in the dire sentinel or spend the SP for the actual heavy suit and Forge Gun skills.
For those that want zero blast damage to infantry unless it's a direct hit, then you should be calling for the same limitation on all explosive weaponry making even MD and grenades do zero damage unless they are actually touching an enemy when they detonate.
There are those saying that SWARMs follow targets around obstacles and there's no way to take cover. I can tell you from experience that you must be doing something wrong. I regularly gun for two tankers in my clan and both of them constantly and successfully take cover behind hills, cargo containers, large rocks, buildings, etc when they need to evade swarms.
Yes, they're easy to use. No, they aren't the "I Win Button" many are making them out to be.
Finally... I can't believe I saw someone advising others to camp the redline... What can I say but those who do it, when their team isn't redlined, are just lazy, chicken hearted, mentally underdeveloped, and worthless to their team. They will never excel because they will never get far enough into the game to make anything of themselves that will actually be of use. Was actually in a match last night where there were two tanks out on both sides. We lost one tank, but our remaining tank kept rolling around staying in the fight supporting our troopers. One of their tanks fell, before either MCC shield was below 40%, and the other one went and hid behind the row of buildings behind their red line and stayed there for the rest of the match too afraid to go support it's team, giving the team I was on a much easier victory. I appreciate the post, I'm not making swarms into any kind of I win button. Just a to simple to use button. I've been here since the first build, I have skilled into everything, many times over. Yes in real life they have auto lock weapons, and subs have nukes on them, fighter jets have lock on missiles ect. So, here's a good question, If tanks had a missile system set up to auto lock AV weapons firing on them, which would consist of 6-7 seeking missiles. How many crazy threads would go up about that? Also the same limitation had been imposed on the other AV weapons already, except its minimal splash. If you read all the posts you would see we were manual fire for a build and what stopped that was infantry getting hit with it like a bazooka, causing wide spread QQ so the feature was removed. To me, AV grenades and swarms = I will win against your tank, I haven't failed yet. If you are already behind cover when swarms have a lock, ie they lock you, you hide, they fire, it will hit the side of the rock. However if already in the air and you move, they will follow you around the rock. No escape. And finally, I say your lazy for not wanting to put some effort into the swarm launcher.
All the weapons are simple to use. Well maybe not grenades and MDs. But when I first got into AV and had to use the SWARMs for my chosen role until I could get into the Heavy Suit, I did notice how I was very vulnerable to snipers, tactical ARs, and anyone who was close enough to run up on me, while I was locking my target. It's the same as the vulnerability I have while charging the FG just without the durability of the heavy suit.
Yeah, I got in on the end of the swarm launcher dumb fire. Didn't matter to me as I saw the Forge Gun and worked for it. And I did read all the posts.
Lazy. I must not be too lazy as I'd rather grab my FG for AV use instead of a SWARM.
Defenses against lock and fire AV weapons... I would be all for an activated point defense module that could intercept SWARMS/rockets for a short period of time before going into cool down. Perhaps the same cycle rate as active hardeners. Though like everything else in these forums it would induce lots of OP QQ threads.
Our tank drivers taking cover behind obstacles are, most of the time, after launch. As I'm usually on the top turret scanning for threats and reporting to my driver, and returning fire if they're in range, I obviously get to see the swarms coming, and the terrain impact, as we move behind something successfully taking cover. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 03:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Interesting.
Remove the lock on mechanic? Yeah. Because there's no such thing as a lock on weapon in reality right? I know the game isn't real, but seriously... Suggestions given to make a zero lock SWARM viable would just turn it into an assault equipable forge gun. I see what you're doing and I say you're lazy, If you want to use a Forge Gun, then spawn in the dire sentinel or spend the SP for the actual heavy suit and Forge Gun skills.
For those that want zero blast damage to infantry unless it's a direct hit, then you should be calling for the same limitation on all explosive weaponry making even MD and grenades do zero damage unless they are actually touching an enemy when they detonate.
There are those saying that SWARMs follow targets around obstacles and there's no way to take cover. I can tell you from experience that you must be doing something wrong. I regularly gun for two tankers in my clan and both of them constantly and successfully take cover behind hills, cargo containers, large rocks, buildings, etc when they need to evade swarms.
Yes, they're easy to use. No, they aren't the "I Win Button" many are making them out to be.
Finally... I can't believe I saw someone advising others to camp the redline... What can I say but those who do it, when their team isn't redlined, are just lazy, chicken hearted, mentally underdeveloped, and worthless to their team. They will never excel because they will never get far enough into the game to make anything of themselves that will actually be of use. Was actually in a match last night where there were two tanks out on both sides. We lost one tank, but our remaining tank kept rolling around staying in the fight supporting our troopers. One of their tanks fell, before either MCC shield was below 40%, and the other one went and hid behind the row of buildings behind their red line and stayed there for the rest of the match too afraid to go support it's team, giving the team I was on a much easier victory. I appreciate the post, I'm not making swarms into any kind of I win button. Just a to simple to use button. I've been here since the first build, I have skilled into everything, many times over. Yes in real life they have auto lock weapons, and subs have nukes on them, fighter jets have lock on missiles ect. So, here's a good question, If tanks had a missile system set up to auto lock AV weapons firing on them, which would consist of 6-7 seeking missiles. How many crazy threads would go up about that? Also the same limitation had been imposed on the other AV weapons already, except its minimal splash. If you read all the posts you would see we were manual fire for a build and what stopped that was infantry getting hit with it like a bazooka, causing wide spread QQ so the feature was removed. To me, AV grenades and swarms = I will win against your tank, I haven't failed yet. If you are already behind cover when swarms have a lock, ie they lock you, you hide, they fire, it will hit the side of the rock. However if already in the air and you move, they will follow you around the rock. No escape. And finally, I say your lazy for not wanting to put some effort into the swarm launcher. All the weapons are simple to use. Well maybe not grenades and MDs. But when I first got into AV and had to use the SWARMs for my chosen role until I could get into the Heavy Suit, I did notice how I was very vulnerable to snipers, tactical ARs, and anyone who was close enough to run up on me, while I was locking my target. It's the same as the vulnerability I have while charging the FG just without the durability of the heavy suit. Yeah, I got in on the end of the swarm launcher dumb fire. Didn't matter to me as I saw the Forge Gun and worked for it. And I did read all the posts. Lazy. I must not be too lazy as I'd rather grab my FG for AV use instead of a SWARM. Defenses against lock and fire AV weapons... I would be all for an activated point defense module that could intercept SWARMS/rockets for a short period of time before going into cool down. Perhaps the same cycle rate as active hardeners. Though like everything else in these forums it would induce lots of OP QQ threads. Our tank drivers taking cover behind obstacles are, most of the time, after launch. As I'm usually on the top turret scanning for threats and reporting to my driver, and returning fire if they're in range, I obviously get to see the swarms coming, and the terrain impact, as we move behind something successfully taking cover.
I personally hardly lose a tank, so no QQ from me lol, more constructive.
I'd love to see an ecm module or something that would make it impossible to lock while the mod was on, or other defenses.
A big issue, which has always been in the community because of the first build is, no one likes tanks, because in build 1 they were gods.
I'm just looking at making swarms have a little more counter to them, ecm mod, awesome, actually the best alternative.
But I don't think its coming soontm.
|
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 04:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:I have to agree with this guy. Is far to easy to lock into a tank, find cover in a save place ( like behind a rock ), and shoot your Swarm missiles around the rock . Just another Over Powering thing in Dust 514....... it should be call : "Dust OP" You guys make no sense. The swarm launcher is supposed to do all of the above. I don't understand why you people always have to come on here and whine about something as stupid as skill. Its a video game who the hell cares about skill in a video game? |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 04:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:I have to agree with this guy. Is far to easy to lock into a tank, find cover in a save place ( like behind a rock ), and shoot your Swarm missiles around the rock . Just another Over Powering thing in Dust 514....... it should be call : "Dust OP" You guys make no sense. The swarm launcher is supposed to do all of the above. I don't understand why you people always have to come on here and whine about something as stupid as skill. Its a video game who the hell cares about skill in a video game?
Where is the whining?
Are you whining about people whining?
Obviously CCP thought otherwise when they had made swarm manual fire.
People just QQ'd about its bazooka ability, but liked it as manual fire more.
Be constructive and don't whine in my thread.
I bet 100% if auto aim worked fine you'd have a QQ thread up.
This game should have 0 auto aim if there are not counter measures in place, like ecm modules.
If your opposed to the change or peoples ideas, state why.
Don't trash my thread kid or GTFO, please and thank you. |
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 04:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
All you people ever want is change. Why cant you just leave it alone. If you get your "skill" manual shot what then? will you still ask for another change because it still does not have enough skill? Skill does not equal fun its as simple as that.Also the manual fire was just a test.They decided it was not needed and got rid of it. I mean count how many time you actually killed infantry with it. If they put manual fire It will be useless. I think if people want a manual fire "skill" gun they should use the forge gun. I'm not trying to flame but really now this change business is getting out of hand.Its why i stopped playing bf3. One month a gun was accurate the next month it was worthless.I don't want this game to be the same way. |
|
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 04:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:All you people ever want is change. Why cant you just leave it alone. If you get your "skill" manual shot what then? will you still ask for another change because it still does not have enough skill? Skill does not equal fun its as simple as that.
It's a beta bro. This isn't full release and this isn't a demo.
Things are meant to change.
I've been here since day 1 of the closed beta, I've seen a lot of changes.
Did I like it the way it was the first day? Of course, but things were changed.
And they will keep changing.
I think your mistaking this for a QQ Nerf thread, its not.
If you can't figure that out, then I'm not sure how you even logged into the forums tbh. |
Busty M4rinara
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
17
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 04:54:00 -
[32] - Quote
Im a tank driver. So i see all this first hand. This is what needs to happen with swarm launchers: Keep the lock (travel time is a issue for a swarm duder) - Manual fire is not the answer STOP HAVING THE MISSILES CUT DAMN CORNERS.
If im below a hill or around a building, SWARMS SHOULD NOT BE HOMING MISSILES. Missiles should lock on, and fire straight. if a hill or a building is in the way, then too bad. Tanks should be able to grab cover. This is the same problem with drop ships. There are plunty of buildings to hide behind, but not against swarms.
Fit it plx. |
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 04:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Also calling us lazy because we don't want to play like you is trash. I don't care about skill or aim i just want to have fun. If you want your "skill" shot you can have it! Its not auto aim for crying out loud its supposed to freaking do that. If you don't like the fact that its a fire and forget weapon don't use it. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 05:02:00 -
[34] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Also calling us lazy because we don't want to play like you is trash. I don't care about skill or aim i just want to have fun. If you want your "skill" shot you can have it!
Then have fun, we like competition.
If your here for fun, go have fun and let us work on the game. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 05:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Busty M4rinara wrote:Im a tank driver. So i see all this first hand. This is what needs to happen with swarm launchers: Keep the lock (travel time is a issue for a swarm duder) - Manual fire is not the answer STOP HAVING THE MISSILES CUT DAMN CORNERS.
If im below a hill or around a building, SWARMS SHOULD NOT BE HOMING MISSILES. Missiles should lock on, and fire straight. if a hill or a building is in the way, then too bad. Tanks should be able to grab cover. This is the same problem with drop ships. There are plunty of buildings to hide behind, but not against swarms.
Fit it plx.
I'd be cool with that too |
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 16:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sorry about my post. I was really angry about a number of things and I let it show up in my post. Again I apologize for this. What I meant to say yesterday is that yes this game is subject to change but I really don't think they would have removed manual fire if it was not useless. Most of the time your better off switching to a secondary. Also we need an Av weapon with lock on. if all the av weapons in this game were dumbfire i dont think anyone would use them because they would be even easier to avoid. I wasnt trying to flame yesterday I just wanted say that not every one wants a skill or gtfo game like you do. after all video game were made for fun first skill second. I look forward to you reply. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 17:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Sorry about my post. I was really angry about a number of things and I let it show up in my post. Again I apologize for this. What I meant to say yesterday is that yes this game is subject to change but I really don't think they would have removed manual fire if it was not useless. Most of the time your better off switching to a secondary. Also we need an Av weapon with lock on. if all the av weapons in this game were dumbfire i dont think anyone would use them because they would be even easier to avoid. I wasnt trying to flame yesterday I just wanted say that not every one wants a skill or gtfo game like you do. after all video game were made for fun first skill second. I look forward to you reply.
I figured so and no worries
The reason for the change back from dumbfire is because it was able to kill infantry, instead of addressing that issue, in response to the huge amount of QQ threads that went up CCP did a hot fix back to auto lock. it saved time for them, but was not a fix by any means. |
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 18:44:00 -
[38] - Quote
Do be honest I think I only got maybe one kill with dumbfire lol. Most of the time if I got into and infantry battle I would run away or switch to a secondary. I always found it difficult to line up the shot against infantry but hey that's just me. Ive never been good at fps games which is why I turn into a burnt out toaster oven when some one asks for a change I mean I just got used to how the thing works . If dumbfire does return how do you think it would handle? |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 19:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Do be honest I think I only got maybe one kill with dumbfire lol. Most of the time if I got into and infantry battle I would run away or switch to a secondary. I always found it difficult to line up the shot against infantry but hey that's just me. Ive never been good at fps games which is why I turn into a burnt out toaster oven when some one asks for a change I mean I just got used to how the thing works . If dumbfire does return how do you think it would handle?
Personally I'd like the swarm to be a powerful weapon, dumbfire, yet as fast as a forge gun with extensive alpha damage and a lot of splash damage with high splash radius, kind of like large missile turrets in build 1.
With the splash as well, when fighters come you have a much better chance of shooting in front of them, at max range the swarms would explode with splash, so if they're infront of a fighter when it explodes, nuff said.
When fighters do come, swarms will be a joke.
Faster fire like forge will allow for you to get more hit on a tank before it runs for cover, even as he moves, splash and radius buff would still be putting pressure even if you didn't have direct hits.
Not perfect, but its a thought of how dumbfire could be balanced.
There's always the "it kills infantry problem" |
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 19:09:00 -
[40] - Quote
I think they should make two swarm launcher variants. A dumbfire swarm launcher and a lock on only swarm launcher. The lock on variant would have lower damage to make up for the fact that its lock on. The dumbfire would of course have hi damage. Or you could just make it that when you tap r1 it fires hi speed high damage dumbfire missiles but when you hold it down it goes into lock on mode. Thats as for as I got with it . |
|
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 19:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:I think they should make two swarm launcher variants. A dumbfire swarm launcher and a lock on only swarm launcher. The lock on variant would have lower damage to make up for the fact that its lock on. The dumbfire would of course have hi damage. Or you could just make it that when you tap r1 it fires hi speed high damage dumbfire missiles but when you hold it down it goes into lock on mode. Thats as for as I got with it .
lol ya not a bad idea.
Being a tanker, swarms aren't a big worry for me, but the damage plus auto lock is terrible on drop ships and LAV's.
It's 1 reason you hardly see drop ships when their role is vital, that and their WP system is bugged.
Hell the DS is supposed to be a logistic role for tanks as well, but swarms eat them so fast they can't even do their repping role.
1 hit and they go way off course and take severe damage.
So Lower damage on a swarm auto lock and higher damage on dumb fire is pretty cool. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 20:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
I kind of don't see the point in swarm launchers currently. Forge guns have much better DPM as far as I'm aware, and they're much more reliable in terms of actually damaging the enemy. Swarms are too easily avoided. They're okay against dropships I guess, but even then, forge gun has been more reliable for shooting down dropships in my experience.
Personally, I think they need to seriously look at how swarm launchers fit into the pantheon of anti-vehicle options. As well, if forge guns can one-shot any infantry from great distances, I don't see why swarm launchers ought to be totally useless for shooting infantry at all.
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:You do realize swarms will be used in the future to shoot down fighters which go much faster than current.
We have no idea how other aircraft will work. Speculation like this doesn't help address the game as it is. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 20:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:I kind of don't see the point in swarm launchers currently. Forge guns have much better DPM as far as I'm aware, and they're much more reliable in terms of actually damaging the enemy. Swarms are too easily avoided. They're okay against dropships I guess, but even then, forge gun has been more reliable for shooting down dropships in my experience. Personally, I think they need to seriously look at how swarm launchers fit into the pantheon of anti-vehicle options. As well, if forge guns can one-shot any infantry from great distances, I don't see why swarm launchers ought to be totally useless for shooting infantry at all. Iron Wolf Saber wrote:You do realize swarms will be used in the future to shoot down fighters which go much faster than current. We have no idea how other aircraft will work. Speculation like this doesn't help address the game as it is.
Ya that's why I'd like to see them changed, like I said atm they're pretty noob tubish. When they should be something more feared.
Just not auto lock lol
I'd be 100% for buffing them if we removed that feature. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 20:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lock time based on sig radius and no more turning 90-¦ on corners, simple fix |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 20:41:00 -
[45] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Lock time based on sig radius and no more turning 90-¦ on corners, simple fix
Ya that's be nice too, but its still hard on DS's, whose logistic role is to rep tanks.
I did like the idea of line of sight lock, if you looked away the missiles would go sporadic.
People usually assume tanks when talking about swarms, think of the poor DS's and LAV's too! lol.
Actually had a DS rep my madrugar last night, he got 1 hit by swarms and it tossed him into the ground.
He was plenty above me as well, idk what the rep range is on those, was a sick amount of rep though. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 21:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Lock time based on sig radius and no more turning 90-¦ on corners, simple fix Ya that's be nice too, but its still hard on DS's, whose logistic role is to rep tanks. I did like the idea of line of sight lock, if you looked away the missiles would go sporadic. People usually assume tanks when talking about swarms, think of the poor DS's and LAV's too! lol. Actually had a DS rep my madrugar last night, he got 1 hit by swarms and it tossed him into the ground. He was plenty above me as well, idk what the rep range is on those, was a sick amount of rep though. Look at at thread titled "Swarm Launcher Changes" I didn't forget about them. |
CLOSEDBETA TSTR-est E3
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 21:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
Oh look its the G_IMP tastics calling for nerf on anything Av Whhhhaaaaaa
Post on your main "Zit back" so people can know how much of a baby you are.
|
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 21:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
the salvos tendency to scatter would make the swarm launcher pretty much useless without a lock, at anything but the closest range. regardless of your 1337 skills, when the missiles fly away from each other, how will you skillfully aim to get all 4-6 to connect?
not to mention that when you remove the lock time you increase the DPS significantly, which opens up a whole other can of worms. it would be like an anti-tank shotgun, which AV grenades kinda already are. but then the swarm would have double the ammo out of the gate, and could be buffed by light weapon: whatever.
dropships have their own problems, and as for LAVs, are any of these lavs who's asses we're kicking anything above unfit BPO tier? you just don't balance around THAT. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 21:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
I can think of a reason why swarms will never have dumbfire swarms again. From what I gather, they removed dumbfire because all of the newbies thought it was a rocket launcher that should kill infantry. They would stand there trying to hit ppl over and over while the opponent was probably laughing his @#$ off.
It would make sense that they would do dmg to infantry because they are an exploding missile and seeing a large explosion hitting infantry should do massive amounts of dmg. They were new to the game, but you can't fault them for the logic of explosion = dmg. So ccp removed the dumbfire to make it a bit more realistic and not confuse the new players.
The forge gun was largely left alone with its ability to kill infantry because its little blue bolt of death was a bit more realistic in that ccp could makeup what ever physics they wanted since it is a madeup weapon. Small blash radius, chargeup time, and naturally thinking the blast radius isn't where most of the dmg come from a forge gun, its the little blue bolt of death. The splash dmg is just the left overs from it.
Although, the swarms main dmg comes from the explosion so it didn't make any sense that infantry could stand in the graphical explosion and not get hurt. And the swarms need that large graphical explosion because you would never see it from a distance hitting a vehicle if it wasn't large. Also it naturally fits since it is a missile, everyone thinks large explosion.
|
IV 7T
Doomheim
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 21:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:
Wrong..my militia swarms smash tanks all the time..lock on hide behind something shoot up auto lock does the work swarms take no skill at all
Mabye i'm doing something severly wrong but my militia Swarms do almost nothing against any decently leveled tank. The bad tanks, prolly militia ones, but how can i tell, just take 2-3 hits, this makes sense.
A few days ago i spend almost the whole match on the 3 point map, next to 'B', our spawn letter, just hunting tanks...or lets say TRYING to hunt 'em.
Tank pretty much parked next to 'B', giving me a clear sight of it. I was spamming it it with my Swarm from the mountains next to, but i could not reload fast enough to deal enough damage to overcome his repairing, i was so close to be pretty sure their were no LOGIs backing him up from behind. I had my nanohive next to me, to prevent me from running out of ammo, but never was able to really damge it. It did not even try to dodge my swarms or ever tried to look for cover, 'scared' off me shooting at it. Its easier to destroy a GRU with a swarm launcher than those tanks, and GRUs still seem to take 20+hits of a swarm.
Seriously, to keep me from doing this, being a 'threat' to a tank, it should send a few infantries to me, taking me out, not much of a task, cosindering i just carry a secondary to defend myself against non vehicle targets.. Or have a sniper watching the mountains, taking me out, before i can hit it once too often. But having so much shield and armor to make a Swarm almost useless, no matter hom much skill it takes to hit with autoaim or not, not even forcing a tank to try to dodge the rockets, can not be right. Maybe blame my team for not spamming a few Flux or Swarms aswell.
By no mean a 'newb' should be able to take out a high end tank, with 1,2 or 3 swarm hits, from safe zone, no requiring any skill to 'aim', giving the tank no chance to 'defend' itself, by eliminating the 'threat' fast enough of by taking cover. But if i shoot a tank for FIVE straight minutes, the tank should be down, by not taking cover or taking me about before, any tank owner desevers to look at his buring 600'000+ ISK investment.
Auto aim might not require much skill, but you also have to account the down side of, beside not be able to hit infantry. It takes a few seconds to get those rockets off, i can not just tap R2 once and shot you with a swarm 1 second later, in case a vehicle gets in my sight, while still doing my normal front line job, fighting infantry. I can not carry a normal front line gun, when i'm on my swarm load out, its my primary weapon.
How often is shooting from behind cover really an option, to justfy this call for nerfing it, only allowing the 'skilled' ones take out tanks with a swarm, instead of 'cowardish newbs'. |
|
Rekon Syport
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 21:55:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ugh... don't you need to find an assault guy who willing specs into some Swarm skills? As a Logi, I'm not wasting points on it. Instead I chase tanks on foot when they are dominating the battlefield (as 2,3,4 tanks these days are being fielded at once) firing my wait to lock and fire before he hides pea shooter thus giving away my position where Ithen put my dodgeball skills to full use from incomnig sniper fire just to scratch a tanks shields. Then either I'm run over by the tank in rocky terrain or I am waiting for a reload from hell walking up over a hill where the tank may have sped away barrelling down the side of a cliff.
Why a cliff you say? and why was I chasing it? because I've been on the same side of a map from one tower and watch a drop ship spawn in a tank on another tower and I couldn't hit it with my swarms. . . or I'm dropping a hive and reloading because 6 swarms just got through the shields and I have to hurry before they come back up. This has already taken valuable time at this point and I just wanna tank hunt to get someting out of the lost battle.
Get that tank outta the redzone you panzy, till then I am left riskikgn my life standnig still in the open to a hail storm waiting to lock on. If the tank can stay up there, then give me dumbfires and splash damage to fend of the snipers in the hills and the 3 assualts chasing my backside while I am left with a scrambler pistol as back up.
I probably shouldn't be the swarm guy but since they are dodged, ducked, dipped, and defended against so well by the good tankers (or hide where they can't be reached like cowardly ones) unless the team is smart enough to spawn 3-4 AV's the next time around. . . tanks have no gripe in this argument.
The real issue would be DS needing a bolster in something like warning detection and some serious shields to take the first hit and decide if staying is worth a second. Maybe put in a flight damage issue or cripple effect instead of KABOOMing them so fast. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
168
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
Busty M4rinara wrote:Im a tank driver. So i see all this first hand. This is what needs to happen with swarm launchers: Keep the lock (travel time is a issue for a swarm duder) - Manual fire is not the answer STOP HAVING THE MISSILES CUT DAMN CORNERS.
If im below a hill or around a building, SWARMS SHOULD NOT BE HOMING MISSILES. Missiles should lock on, and fire straight. if a hill or a building is in the way, then too bad. Tanks should be able to grab cover. This is the same problem with drop ships. There are plunty of buildings to hide behind, but not against swarms.
Fit it plx.
First, you're confusing rockets with missiles. Missiles have guidance systems, rockets do not. That's what the OP wants is to turn SWARMs into basic rocket launchers making them, in effect, long range light forge guns carryable by anyone. It will be able to pop infantry more easily than a forge. It currently still kills infantry if they're within the SWARM blast radius when the missiles hit. It already hit's vehicles at a greater distance than the Forge. So the proposed changes would end up eliminating the Forge Gun.
Second. Since this build started, I have been top small turret for two tank drivers in my clan quite often and I have as yet to see Swarms track around obstacles. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
IV 7T wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:
Wrong..my militia swarms smash tanks all the time..lock on hide behind something shoot up auto lock does the work swarms take no skill at all
Mabye i'm doing something severly wrong but my militia Swarms do almost nothing against any decently leveled tank. The bad tanks, prolly militia ones, but how can i tell, just take 2-3 hits, this makes sense. A few days ago i spend almost the whole match on the 3 point map, next to 'B', our spawn letter, just hunting tanks...or lets say TRYING to hunt 'em. Tank pretty much parked next to 'B', giving me a clear sight of it. I was spamming it it with my Swarm from the mountains next to, but i could not reload fast enough to deal enough damage to overcome his repairing, i was so close to be pretty sure their were no LOGIs backing him up from behind. I had my nanohive next to me, to prevent me from running out of ammo, but never was able to really damge it. It did not even try to dodge my swarms or ever tried to look for cover, 'scared' off me shooting at it. Its easier to destroy a GRU with a swarm launcher than those tanks, and GRUs still seem to take 20+hits of a swarm. Seriously, to keep me from doing this, being a 'threat' to a tank, it should send a few infantries to me, taking me out, not much of a task, cosindering i just carry a secondary to defend myself against non vehicle targets.. Or have a sniper watching the mountains, taking me out, before i can hit it once too often. But having so much shield and armor to make a Swarm almost useless, no matter hom much skill it takes to hit with autoaim or not, not even forcing a tank to try to dodge the rockets, can not be right. Maybe blame my team for not spamming a few Flux or Swarms aswell. By no mean a 'newb' should be able to take out a high end tank, with 1,2 or 3 swarm hits, from safe zone, no requiring any skill to 'aim', giving the tank no chance to 'defend' itself, by eliminating the 'threat' fast enough of by taking cover. But if i shoot a tank for FIVE straight minutes, the tank should be down, by not taking cover or taking me about before, any tank owner desevers to look at his buring 600'000+ ISK investment. Auto aim might not require much skill, but you also have to account the down side of, beside not be able to hit infantry. It takes a few seconds to get those rockets off, i can not just tap R2 once and shot you with a swarm 1 second later, in case a vehicle gets in my sight, while still doing my normal front line job, fighting infantry. I can not carry a normal front line gun, when i'm on my swarm load out, its my primary weapon. How often is shooting from behind cover really an option, to justfy this call for nerfing it, only allowing the 'skilled' ones take out tanks with a swarm, instead of 'cowardish newbs'.
This was my alts tank, it runs 800k with 84% resistance, plus 6600 buffer and heavy rep |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:Busty M4rinara wrote:Im a tank driver. So i see all this first hand. This is what needs to happen with swarm launchers: Keep the lock (travel time is a issue for a swarm duder) - Manual fire is not the answer STOP HAVING THE MISSILES CUT DAMN CORNERS.
If im below a hill or around a building, SWARMS SHOULD NOT BE HOMING MISSILES. Missiles should lock on, and fire straight. if a hill or a building is in the way, then too bad. Tanks should be able to grab cover. This is the same problem with drop ships. There are plunty of buildings to hide behind, but not against swarms.
Fit it plx. First, you're confusing rockets with missiles. Missiles have guidance systems, rockets do not. That's what the OP wants is to turn SWARMs into basic rocket launchers making them, in effect, long range light forge guns carryable by anyone. It will be able to pop infantry more easily than a forge. It currently still kills infantry if they're within the SWARM blast radius when the missiles hit. It already hit's vehicles at a greater distance than the Forge. So the proposed changes would end up eliminating the Forge Gun. Second. Since this build started, I have been top small turret for two tank drivers in my clan quite often and I have as yet to see Swarms track around obstacles.
For obstacle tracking, the missiles need to be in the air and have closed 50% of distance, give or take from the vehicle in question. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:18:00 -
[55] - Quote
Rekon Syport wrote:Ugh... don't you need to find an assault guy who willing specs into some Swarm skills? As a Logi, I'm not wasting points on it. Instead I chase tanks on foot when they are dominating the battlefield (as 2,3,4 tanks these days are being fielded at once) firing my wait to lock and fire before he hides pea shooter thus giving away my position where Ithen put my dodgeball skills to full use from incomnig sniper fire just to scratch a tanks shields. Then either I'm run over by the tank in rocky terrain or I am waiting for a reload from hell walking up over a hill where the tank may have sped away barrelling down the side of a cliff.
Why a cliff you say? and why was I chasing it? because I've been on the same side of a map from one tower and watch a drop ship spawn in a tank on another tower and I couldn't hit it with my swarms. . . or I'm dropping a hive and reloading because 6 swarms just got through the shields and I have to hurry before they come back up. This has already taken valuable time at this point and I just wanna tank hunt to get someting out of the lost battle.
Get that tank outta the redzone you panzy, till then I am left riskikgn my life standnig still in the open to a hail storm waiting to lock on. If the tank can stay up there, then give me dumbfires and splash damage to fend of the snipers in the hills and the 3 assualts chasing my backside while I am left with a scrambler pistol as back up.
I probably shouldn't be the swarm guy but since they are dodged, ducked, dipped, and defended against so well by the good tankers (or hide where they can't be reached like cowardly ones) unless the team is smart enough to spawn 3-4 AV's the next time around. . . tanks have no gripe in this argument.
The real issue would be DS needing a bolster in something like warning detection and some serious shields to take the first hit and decide if staying is worth a second. Maybe put in a flight damage issue or cripple effect instead of KABOOMing them so fast.
Ya this isn't a tank QQ thread, I can sit my tank in a **** storm of swarms all day, this is just looking at a general rebalance to make dumbfire viable for the swarms again.
DS's and LAV's are my main concern.
And auto lock is like auto aim to me, there needs to be more downsides to it.
I personally love AV guys going at me, but the swarm dudes hide in the mountains way outa range with no real downfall.
|
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:34:00 -
[56] - Quote
Hey OP I just thought of the smartest thing instead of asking ccp to turn the swarms into dumbfire rockest why not ask them to add a rocket launcher instead. Doesnt that make more sense? |
IV 7T
Doomheim
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 22:40:00 -
[57] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:[ This was my alts tank, it runs 800k with 84% resistance, plus 6600 buffer and heavy rep
I think it was a SVER TB one, might be similar build, but neverless, this thing should have been down, after i spammed it for FIVE straight minutes, and i'm not exaggerating here, prolly even longer than that, went 3-2 , off 1st few minutes, when i was still thinking we could atleast hold 'B'. No ones was shooting at me while and killing me here should have been the only way to keep me from destroying such a tank with a few Swarm hits. 6-7 hits should have been enough, something in that range, it still being up after 40+ can't be right. Being fully repaired after not being hit for 30sec sounds ok to me, considering the 'high' cost, but just sitting on one spot, pretty much impossible to be destroyed, freely taking hit after hit, not even trying to dodge it, this does not requir much skill either, atleast not in the context of 'auto aim of swarms being too easy'. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:00:00 -
[58] - Quote
IV 7T wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:[ This was my alts tank, it runs 800k with 84% resistance, plus 6600 buffer and heavy rep I think it was a SVER TB one, might be similar build, but neverless, this thing should have been down, after i spammed it for FIVE straight minutes, and i'm not exaggerating here, prolly even longer than that, went 3-2 , off 1st few minutes, when i was still thinking we could atleast hold 'B'. No ones was shooting at me while and killing me here should have been the only way to keep me from destroying such a tank with a few Swarm hits. 6-7 hits should have been enough, something in that range, it still being up after 40+ can't be right. Being fully repaired after not being hit for 30sec sounds ok to me, considering the 'high' cost, but just sitting on one spot, pretty much impossible to be destroyed, freely taking hit after hit, not even trying to dodge it, this does not requir much skill either, atleast not in the context of 'auto aim of swarms being too easy'.
Ya with 2 swarm dudes after me I can perma tank them via buffer resistance and then the repper later. |
Rekon Syport
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
Quote:
Ya this isn't a tank QQ thread, I can sit my tank in a **** storm of swarms all day, this is just looking at a general rebalance to make dumbfire viable for the swarms again.
DS's and LAV's are my main concern.
And auto lock is like auto aim to me, there needs to be more downsides to it.
I personally love AV guys going at me, but the swarm dudes hide in the mountains way outa range with no real downfall.
My point wasn't about tanks, it is riddled with all the downs of a Swarm Launcher which I believe was your point and DS and LAV are just side arguments when really DS and LAV maybe should be the argument as the swarm itself has been shown to be everything from "too noob like" to completely useless to field. If it flies, you should be able to lock on. Waiting to lock is a downside. With being one shot sniped, avoiding the rock your hiding behind not getting in your way so you stand in the open, and not having a weapon in the process once your done, should you even hit it aim or not and do anything if a supply is around to switch to. Reload time, lack of carry capacity. (sure you could train thus it's not my role) All downers for me to ever use one.
I'm not against your point but I'd surely love to have 2 missles I can get off with the pull of a trigger (hit or not, that's a plus not a negative). Even if I miss, at least the tanker may think about it and it didn't cost me human sacrifice to get one shot off. If anything, I hope there are some swarm peeps that actually spec into it more, cuz against those tanks, Swarms need more damage. Or type of ammo option. I won't argue that sometimes those are the breaks on who you PUB. Add "rockets" with splash damaeg and up the damage to Swarms for having to be sacrifical and "lock-on." |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:00:00 -
[60] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:Hey OP I just thought of the smartest thing instead of asking ccp to turn the swarms into dumbfire rockest why not ask them to add a rocket launcher instead. Doesnt that make more sense?
Because there shouldn't be an aim Bot in game. Derp. |
|
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
Rekon Syport wrote:Quote:
Ya this isn't a tank QQ thread, I can sit my tank in a **** storm of swarms all day, this is just looking at a general rebalance to make dumbfire viable for the swarms again.
DS's and LAV's are my main concern.
And auto lock is like auto aim to me, there needs to be more downsides to it.
I personally love AV guys going at me, but the swarm dudes hide in the mountains way outa range with no real downfall.
My point wasn't about tanks, it is riddled with all the downs of a Swarm Launcher which I believe was your point and DS and LAV are just side arguments when really DS and LAV maybe should be the argument as the swarm itself has been shown to be everything from "too noob like" to completely useless to field. If it flies, you should be able to lock on. Waiting to lock is a downside. With being one shot sniped, avoiding the rock your hiding behind not getting in your way so you stand in the open, and not having a weapon in the process once your done, should you even hit it aim or not and do anything if a supply is around to switch to. Reload time, lack of carry capacity. (sure you could train thus it's not my role) All downers for me to ever use one. I'm not against your point but I'd surely love to have 2 missles I can get off with the pull of a trigger (hit or not, that's a plus not a negative). Even if I miss, at least the tanker may think about it and it didn't cost me human sacrifice to get one shot off. If anything, I hope there are some swarm peeps that actually spec into it more, cuz against those tanks, Swarms need more damage. Or type of ammo option. I won't argue that sometimes those are the breaks on who you PUB. Add "rockets" and up the damage to Swarms for having to be sacrifical and "lock-on."
Have you tried proto swarms? Or even the cbr swarms?
These make my 84% resist tank hurt every hit. |
Chinduko
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
19
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:14:00 -
[62] - Quote
I preferred the manual Swarms too. |
IV 7T
Doomheim
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:19:00 -
[63] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Soldiersaint wrote:Hey OP I just thought of the smartest thing instead of asking ccp to turn the swarms into dumbfire rockest why not ask them to add a rocket launcher instead. Doesnt that make more sense? Because there shouldn't be an aim Bot in game. Derp.
The 'aim bot' is the reason why you can not shoot a swarm every second, on a gun that only works against non infantry, while forced to fight those 'others' with a secondary.
Game has the 'aim assist' on... on the default settings.I see no threads about those 'crutches'. How is this game about skill anyway, when most 'skill' is shown only by how long you have played.
Swarms barely blow away your 'wide load' sign, and now tank drivers should be able to dodge a few more? ...by default? Takeing cover behind rocks and little poles does not require much skill either. Is this crutch for tanks less of an issue than letting Swarm player once in awhile shoot from behind cover, allowing missiles to track tanks even behind cover? |
IV 7T
Doomheim
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:24:00 -
[64] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:
Have you tried proto swarms? Or even the cbr swarms?
These make my 84% resist tank hurt every hit.
It also just does 300 HP damage, as far as i know. All you can do with is shoot at two different targets at same moment, maybe allowing to pull off those 40+ hits it takes in less time than militia ones. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
244
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:31:00 -
[65] - Quote
IV 7T wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:
Have you tried proto swarms? Or even the cbr swarms?
These make my 84% resist tank hurt every hit.
It also just does 300 HP damage, as far as i know. All you can do with is shoot at two different targets at same moment, maybe allowing to pull off those 40+ hits it takes in less time than militia ones.
It's 2 extra missiles, the 300 is per missile , so it goes from 1200 to 1800 without damage mods. I think...
No to manual aim just because I have to deal with infantry somehow. Manual aim would force me to go out in the open, we all know how that ends. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
IV 7T wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Soldiersaint wrote:Hey OP I just thought of the smartest thing instead of asking ccp to turn the swarms into dumbfire rockest why not ask them to add a rocket launcher instead. Doesnt that make more sense? Because there shouldn't be an aim Bot in game. Derp. The 'aim bot' is the reason why you can not shoot a swarm every second, on a gun that only works against non infantry, while forced to fight those 'others' with a secondary. Game has the 'aim assist' on... on the default settings.I see no threads about those 'crutches'. How is this game about skill anyway, when most 'skill' is shown only by how long you have played. Swarms barely blow away your 'wide load' sign, and now tank drivers should be able to dodge a few more? ...by default? Takeing cover behind rocks and little poles does not require much skill either. Is this crutch for tanks less of an issue than letting Swarm player once in awhile shoot from behind cover, allowing missiles to track tanks even behind cover?
Why does everyone take this as a tank thread? -_- just wow.
there has been threads about the aim assist being on, however it has been stated this feature is broken.
When it works, will you QQ?
and no, they shouldn't be allowed to fire behind cover at 400m
Give me a list of cons for the swarms.
Weigh the balance, hell I'm even asking for a damage and splash buff with the dumbfire.
You realize how that would affect a tank at point blank range? obviously not, you'd rather hide behind a rock from a distance to "kill" the tank, DS, LAV without taking a real risk to your KDR.
so, list me the pros and cons and we'll weigh them. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:38:00 -
[67] - Quote
IV 7T wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:
Have you tried proto swarms? Or even the cbr swarms?
These make my 84% resist tank hurt every hit.
It also just does 300 HP damage, as far as i know. All you can do with is shoot at two different targets at same moment, maybe allowing to pull off those 40+ hits it takes in less time than militia ones.
It launches an extra set of 2 missiles, extra 300 damage per missile, when 1 round hits something, the other 3 rounds are in the air, this means they deal an extra 1200 damage in one clip, so instead of 1200 damage like the standards the advanced do 2400 damage per clip.
Edit,
Math is off its more,
7200 Damage per clip.
4800 Damage per clip for standard. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:41:00 -
[68] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:IV 7T wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:
Have you tried proto swarms? Or even the cbr swarms?
These make my 84% resist tank hurt every hit.
It also just does 300 HP damage, as far as i know. All you can do with is shoot at two different targets at same moment, maybe allowing to pull off those 40+ hits it takes in less time than militia ones. It's 2 extra missiles, the 300 is per missile , so it goes from 1200 to 1800 without damage mods. I think... No to manual aim just because I have to deal with infantry somehow. Manual aim would force me to go out in the open, we all know how that ends.
what about the forge gunners, yes they have a bigger buffer, the AV grenaders? they have to be close with a nanohive.
The new plasma cannon won't be auto lock either and will be a light weapon.
Even with manual aim you will still be able to shoot at 400m, all you have to do is shoot, then hide. The only difference is, is you would actually have to aim, especially like i said before if we increased the speed of the swarms as well as damage.
Edit,
Even heavys can equip the swarms :) so ya, same as forge gun. |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
244
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 23:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:
so, list me the pros and cons and we'll weigh them.
The risk is that everybody and their mothers makes me their number 1 target. As it is that already happens, but like you said, I can hide behind a rock. My little SMG will only keep me safe for so long, if I don't get sniped while trying to hit you. Remove the auto lock and now I'm in the same situation, except now I have to be out in the open.
EDIT:
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:
what about the forge gunners, yes they have a bigger buffer, the AV grenaders? they have to be close with a nanohive.
The new plasma cannon won't be auto lock either and will be a light weapon.
Even with manual aim you will still be able to shoot at 400m, all you have to do is shoot, then hide. The only difference is, is you would actually have to aim, especially like i said before if we increased the speed of the swarms as well as damage.
Edit,
Even heavys can equip the swarms :) so ya, same as forge gun.
Actually... yeah, I wouldn't mind that. |
IV 7T
Doomheim
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 00:25:00 -
[70] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:
Why does everyone take this as a tank thread? -_- just wow.
there has been threads about the aim assist being on, however it has been stated this feature is broken.
When it works, will you QQ?
and no, they shouldn't be allowed to fire behind cover at 400m
Give me a list of cons for the swarms.
Weigh the balance, hell I'm even asking for a damage and splash buff with the dumbfire.
You realize how that would affect a tank at point blank range? obviously not, you'd rather hide behind a rock from a distance to "kill" the tank, DS, LAV without taking a real risk to your KDR.
so, list me the pros and cons and we'll weigh them.
Its an anti VEHICLE weapon, so i think tanks as one of the few possible targets should be include in this discussion.
Anyway, tanks should not be allow to just take hit after hit, without taking any damage while either, nor shold tanks be able to to take cover at 400m either, behind rocks and infantry, unwilling to risk his KDR. SL user do not have any reliable weapon to deal with regular soldiers, he can not just run over the battlefield to have a clear sight off the tank, he can not jsut take ARs, HMGs etc without taking any notice, he does no even have the same speed.
SL easily give away position , it take forever to hit its target, forcing you to shoot at where you expect your target to be in 5 seconds or so. SL do not have any chance against regular soldier, unlike the forge gun or AF 'nades still allowing ARs etc. It does not have much ammo, allowing me to maybe play this wack-a-mole game with a tank driver, maybe anticipating him going backwards once he realized a Swarm being shot toward his direction. LAV are so ridiculously fast its prolly impossible to hit it at all. aslong i'm not right next to it, in which a AF nade is a much better option, especially considering my light weapon to deal with enemy infantry, just to get into this position. My team mates are no threat to you but yours are one to me. To lauch those swarms i need to lock 'em on my target, which takes time, unlike the AF 'nades. |
|
Alex Bradshaw
Carbon 7
3
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 00:42:00 -
[71] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Alex Bradshaw wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:I have to agree with this guy. Is far to easy to lock into a tank, find cover in a save place ( like behind a rock ), and shoot your Swarm missiles around the rock . Just another Over Powering thing in Dust 514....... it should be call : "Dust OP" The point is the swarm launcher should not have a safe place if you have infantry support. This stops tanks from dominating the battle, a tank must have infantry support to deal with swarm launchers, + the tank must keep moving to attack the swarm launcher. If your tank is destroyed by swarms, your situational awareness is wrong, and you do not have proper infantry support. No need to change swarms Wrong..my militia swarms smash tanks all the time..lock on hide behind something shoot up auto lock does the work swarms take no skill at all
The issue is the other teams stupidity then, where are their infantry while you are hiding behind something? I never attack with a tank, unless I have infantry support. Swarms should not be nerfed to make up for lack of teamwork |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 04:24:00 -
[72] - Quote
Alex Bradshaw wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Alex Bradshaw wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:I have to agree with this guy. Is far to easy to lock into a tank, find cover in a save place ( like behind a rock ), and shoot your Swarm missiles around the rock . Just another Over Powering thing in Dust 514....... it should be call : "Dust OP" The point is the swarm launcher should not have a safe place if you have infantry support. This stops tanks from dominating the battle, a tank must have infantry support to deal with swarm launchers, + the tank must keep moving to attack the swarm launcher. If your tank is destroyed by swarms, your situational awareness is wrong, and you do not have proper infantry support. No need to change swarms Wrong..my militia swarms smash tanks all the time..lock on hide behind something shoot up auto lock does the work swarms take no skill at all The issue is the other teams stupidity then, where are their infantry while you are hiding behind something? I never attack with a tank, unless I have infantry support. Swarms should not be nerfed to make up for lack of teamwork
Read the posts, This entire thread, is about it being BUFFED and turned to dumb fire.
Christ ppl read first. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 04:27:00 -
[73] - Quote
IV 7T wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:
Why does everyone take this as a tank thread? -_- just wow.
there has been threads about the aim assist being on, however it has been stated this feature is broken.
When it works, will you QQ?
and no, they shouldn't be allowed to fire behind cover at 400m
Give me a list of cons for the swarms.
Weigh the balance, hell I'm even asking for a damage and splash buff with the dumbfire.
You realize how that would affect a tank at point blank range? obviously not, you'd rather hide behind a rock from a distance to "kill" the tank, DS, LAV without taking a real risk to your KDR.
so, list me the pros and cons and we'll weigh them.
Its an anti VEHICLE weapon, so i think tanks as one of the few possible targets should be include in this discussion. Anyway, tanks should not be allow to just take hit after hit, without taking any damage while either, nor shold tanks be able to to take cover at 400m either, behind rocks and infantry, unwilling to risk his KDR. SL user do not have any reliable weapon to deal with regular soldiers, he can not just run over the battlefield to have a clear sight off the tank, he can not jsut take ARs, HMGs etc without taking any notice, he does no even have the same speed. SL easily give away position , it take forever to hit its target, forcing you to shoot at where you expect your target to be in 5 seconds or so. SL do not have any chance against regular soldier, unlike the forge gun or AF 'nades still allowing ARs etc. It does not have much ammo, allowing me to maybe play this wack-a-mole game with a tank driver, maybe anticipating him going backwards once he realized a Swarm being shot toward his direction. LAV are so ridiculously fast its prolly impossible to hit it at all. aslong i'm not right next to it, in which a AF nade is a much better option, especially considering my light weapon to deal with enemy infantry, just to get into this position. My team mates are no threat to you but yours are one to me. To lauch those swarms i need to lock 'em on my target, which takes time, unlike the AF 'nades.
You make no sense, your telling me by making this manual fire, As fast as a forge shot, more damage, more splash,
that you don't have a reliable weapon to deal with enemy soldiers with too? again let me state,
Forge gunners, do they have a reliable weapon to deal with enemy soldiers?
I mean, I am asking for manual fire after all, bigger splash and more damage, but that wouldn't be as effective as an AR so lets leave it auto lock.
Swarms can be fit to heavys too, so don't reply with a bigger buffer statement.
These arguments aren't even coming close to giving me a good reason to have it auto lock still. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 04:28:00 -
[74] - Quote
Trading a buff for dumbfire is an obvious nerf. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 04:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Trading a buff for dumbfire is an obvious nerf.
Apparently.
I mean jesus, 10m splash doing 1000+ damage to vehicles at the speed of a forge gun is totally a nerf. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 04:40:00 -
[76] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Trading a buff for dumbfire is an obvious nerf. Apparently. I mean jesus, 10m splash doing 1000+ damage to vehicles at the speed of a forge gun is totally a nerf. Good luck when you can't hit them at a decent range(referring to all vehicles) |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 04:56:00 -
[77] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Trading a buff for dumbfire is an obvious nerf. Apparently. I mean jesus, 10m splash doing 1000+ damage to vehicles at the speed of a forge gun is totally a nerf. Good luck when you can't hit them at a decent range(referring to all vehicles)
400m isn't decent enough range? I mean really.
Props to the forge guys who get those long distance shots then, guess its hard. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
168
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 05:28:00 -
[78] - Quote
The OP, and those that agree with him, are just too deficient to understand that the changes they want made to the SWARM will make it a longer range and heavier damage weapon than a forge gun that can be carried by anyone regardless of suit.
And lock on tracking isn't auto aim. Saying that it is just displays gross ignorance. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 05:32:00 -
[79] - Quote
Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:The OP, and those that agree with him, are just too deficient to understand that the changes they want made to the SWARM will make it a longer range and heavier damage weapon than a forge gun that can be carried by anyone regardless of suit.
And lock on tracking isn't auto aim. Saying that it is just displays gross ignorance.
Your right, its worse.
I wanted different thoughts on how to balance a dumbfire version,
but all you tools can do is troll and QQ about your auto hide feature may become no longer. |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
168
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 11:58:00 -
[80] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:The OP, and those that agree with him, are just too deficient to understand that the changes they want made to the SWARM will make it a longer range and heavier damage weapon than a forge gun that can be carried by anyone regardless of suit.
And lock on tracking isn't auto aim. Saying that it is just displays gross ignorance. Your right, its worse. I wanted different thoughts on how to balance a dumbfire version, but all you tools can do is troll and QQ about your auto hide feature may become no longer.
Want dumb fire? Then instead of asking for the SWARM to be changed, how about asking for an RPG, bazooka, or some other equivalent. So far this just looks like someone's attempt to make the Forge obsolete by making something else that'll be better all around and carryable by anyone. |
|
IV 7T
Doomheim
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 15:29:00 -
[81] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:
You make no sense, your telling me by making this manual fire, As fast as a forge shot, more damage, more splash,
that you don't have a reliable weapon to deal with enemy soldiers with too? again let me state,
Forge gunners, do they have a reliable weapon to deal with enemy soldiers?
I mean, I am asking for manual fire after all, bigger splash and more damage, but that wouldn't be as effective as an AR so lets leave it auto lock.
Swarms can be fit to heavys too, so don't reply with a bigger buffer statement.
These arguments aren't even coming close to giving me a good reason to have it auto lock still.
I would say it makes no sense because you can not read, nor communicate in general. You cry about about auto aim and how it should require more skill to use swarms, how people should not be able to hide behind rocks, unable to get hit, just relying on the missiles to turn the corner?
You suggesting a speed buff is new to me, sorry if you really did. At first you wanted to no splash damage, now you want more splash to fight infantry with an anti vehicle weapon? Talk about no sense.
Yes, if we make chose changes to, the Swarms still would be a reliable AV weapon, but whats the point of the Forge gun then? give it more damge because being limited to the heavy suit? Why not then remove the SL for good?
The SL is not even a real threat to vehicles right now, those 'arguments' you bring up give me no reason to get rid of auto aim.
The auto aim is not much of help anyway, because i can only shoot when i have locked on my target, which takes time. Even if i'm standing next to your tank, not NEEDING auto aim at all, i can NOT shoot 'em right away, i still need to waste my time lockking 'em on my target a few feets away. At one point i have to have a clear view of my target anyway. Those missiles do not evade obstacles, all they do is track its target, on a direct line, vehicles just can not dodge it as easily. I can NOT let them fly a curve around a building, it will only crash into it. If i get it around a building on a direct line, it only then will turn the corner and stil hit its target although the user does not have a clear view off anymore. Lets not fo |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
385
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 15:46:00 -
[82] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Trading a buff for dumbfire is an obvious nerf. Apparently. I mean jesus, 10m splash doing 1000+ damage to vehicles at the speed of a forge gun is totally a nerf. Good luck when you can't hit them at a decent range(referring to all vehicles) 400m isn't decent enough range? I mean really. Props to the forge guys who get those long distance shots then, guess its hard. Not hard at all, there's just no reason to make swarms into another forge gun |
Sextus Hardcock
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
63
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 16:12:00 -
[83] - Quote
swarms are to tanks as snipers are to infantry
run with a decent squad, the trails from swarm launchers are a big shoot me sign |
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 17:03:00 -
[84] - Quote
This is the problem with this thread Op is trying to force me to play in way that i dont want to play. Aimbot? it called lock on and all missile launchers have it. Skill is something extra. A game is supposed to be fun. Lock on missile launchers are awseome the fact that i can own a stupid fool who thinks he should be able to get away is priceless. If you dont want to get owned by a lock on missile launcher dont drive vehicles. OP you keep talking about skill do you realize most people who use the swarms could care less about skill? This is why this game is going to fail. The community will be split between people who want to show off skill IN A VIDEO GAME and people who just want to have fun and enjoy the game for what it is. |
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 17:08:00 -
[85] - Quote
Also who are you to decide if lock on should and should not be in a game thats your OPINION which isnt much at all. lock on will always be on the swarm launcher if you dont like it then why dont you just stop using it. It will save you the stress of feeling unskilled. |
Soldiersaint
Reaper Galactic
6
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 17:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
One more thing this game is in THE FUTURE! This isnt bf3 or cod. In a future game i better see seeking missiles and lock on missiles because its THE FUTURE. Why would you even need a dumbfire missile launcher in THE FUTURE. OP its a game its supposed to have unskilled and unfair weapons suits tanks etc. I think your playing the wrong game. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |