Or maybe vehicles could be warned of a swarm lock giving them chance to escape? I never use swarms personally as I don't see too many tanks or anything, probably because nobody wants to deploy them if the swarms are as powerful as you suggest.

What about making the damage weaker for swarms? I've been told 1 or 2 hits can take out a dropship and you only need 1 to take out a tank. That sounds ridiculous to me.

considering how long they take to reach target you need seeking.

Otherwise, good luck hitting anything not point blank.

Unless they have changed their mind, there was going to be a new dumbfire av weapon. Although, I suspect you just want the lockon function removed from swarms and be dumbfire also. I would not object to that since that means I could have fun doing my suicide runs again. Although, the missile speed would need to be about as fast as the forge gun. However, this type of change would make dropships much harder to kill. I for the life of me can't hit a moving dropship with a forge gun.

All in all though, the swarms are probably good where they are. They do small dmg (compare to forge), but have guided missiles. It is fairly easy to modify the lav so it can take a hit from a standard swarm, and if a person wants to put alot of isk into it, Ive seen them tanked like a tank. It's just that very few ever call anything other than the free one.

http://youtu.be/ZVy6h8h9niU?t=3m37s

I don't think the swarm launchers need to be changed at all. If you want a dumb fire rocket wait until they add the Gallente plasma launcher.

Your argument is that swarm launchers take no skill. Your fallacy is that you are using "skill" interchangeably with "aim." Have you ever used a swarm launcher before to try and take out a vehicle? No I'm not talking about those MLT vehicles that take two shots to destroy, I'm talking about those super beefy tanks and dropships. The only way you're going to take one of those down - regardless of which swarm launcher you have - is to continually pursue it and be relentless until it goes up in smoke. The pursuit is the part that takes skill. No vehicle is going to stay in the same spot so you have to be on the move, however since the swarm launcher takes up a light weapon slot you have to rely on a pistol or submachine gun to take care of any infantry that gets in your way during the pursuit. You have to keep looking for cover since your swarms are a dead give away for snipers. And lastly you only get 6 shots. It's going to take more than 6 shots to take down the beefier tanks and dropships, but if you keep at it you will damage them faster than they can heal. So you need to drop a nanohive somewhere, and this adds in another factor you must manage during your pursuit.

There's a lot more to skill than just aiming.

I don't think the swarm launchers need to be changed at all. If you want a dumb fire rocket wait until they add the Gallente plasma launcher.

Your argument is that swarm launchers take no skill. Your fallacy is that you are using "skill" interchangeably with "aim." Have you ever used a swarm launcher before to try and take out a vehicle? No I'm not talking about those MLT vehicles that take two shots to destroy, I'm talking about those super beefy tanks and dropships. The only way you're going to take one of those down - regardless of which swarm launcher you have - is to continually pursue it and be relentless until it goes up in smoke. The pursuit is the part that takes skill. No vehicle is going to stay in the same spot so you have to be on the move, however since the swarm launcher takes up a light weapon slot you have to rely on a pistol or submachine gun to take care of any infantry that gets in your way during the pursuit. You have to keep looking for cover since your swarms are a dead give away for snipers. And lastly you only get 6 shots. It's going to take more than 6 shots to take down the beefier tanks and dropships, but if you keep at it you will damage them faster than they can heal. So you need to drop a nanohive somewhere, and this adds in another factor you must manage during your pursuit.

There's a lot more to skill than just aiming.

I have to agree with this guy. Is far to easy to lock into a tank, find cover in a save place ( like behind a rock ), and shoot your Swarm missiles around the rock .

Just another Over Powering thing in Dust 514....... it should be call : "Dust OP"

The point is the swarm launcher should not have a safe place if you have infantry support. This stops tanks from dominating the battle, a tank must have infantry support to deal with swarm launchers, + the tank must keep moving to attack the swarm launcher. If your tank is destroyed by swarms, your situational awareness is wrong, and you do not have proper infantry support.

No need to change swarms

You do realize swarms will be used in the future to shoot down fighters which go much faster than current.

Also plasma launchers are no lock arc shots lightweights and once in then a nerf to swarms can be made for their 'convince'

Why are we talking 0 splash against infantry? This is the only part I don't understand.

This discussion seems to be turning into more of an argument with no side really having a definitive piece of evidence that can win this. It's all "well I could do this if this so why can't you?"

For the record I am perfectly up for changing the way swarm launchers work and adding in sone "skill based" launchers.

The point is the swarm launcher should not have a safe place if you have infantry support. This stops tanks from dominating the battle, a tank must have infantry support to deal with swarm launchers, + the tank must keep moving to attack the swarm launcher. If your tank is destroyed by swarms, your situational awareness is wrong, and you do not have proper infantry support.

No need to change swarms

Interesting.

Remove the lock on mechanic? Yeah. Because there's no such thing as a lock on weapon in reality right? I know the game isn't real, but seriously... Suggestions given to make a zero lock SWARM viable would just turn it into an assault equipable forge gun. I see what you're doing and I say you're lazy, If you want to use a Forge Gun, then spawn in the dire sentinel or spend the SP for the actual heavy suit and Forge Gun skills.

For those that want zero blast damage to infantry unless it's a direct hit, then you should be calling for the same limitation on all explosive weaponry making even MD and grenades do zero damage unless they are actually touching an enemy when they detonate.

There are those saying that SWARMs follow targets around obstacles and there's no way to take cover. I can tell you from experience that you must be doing something wrong. I regularly gun for two tankers in my clan and both of them constantly and successfully take cover behind hills, cargo containers, large rocks, buildings, etc when they need to evade swarms.

Yes, they're easy to use. No, they aren't the "I Win Button" many are making them out to be.

Finally... I can't believe I saw someone advising others to camp the redline... What can I say but those who do it, when their team isn't redlined, are just lazy, chicken hearted, mentally underdeveloped, and worthless to their team. They will never excel because they will never get far enough into the game to make anything of themselves that will actually be of use. Was actually in a match last night where there were two tanks out on both sides. We lost one tank, but our remaining tank kept rolling around staying in the fight supporting our troopers. One of their tanks fell, before either MCC shield was below 40%, and the other one went and hid behind the row of buildings behind their red line and stayed there for the rest of the match too afraid to go support it's team, giving the team I was on a much easier victory.

I appreciate the post,

I'm not making swarms into any kind of I win button. Just a to simple to use button.

I've been here since the first build, I have skilled into everything, many times over.

Yes in real life they have auto lock weapons, and subs have nukes on them, fighter jets have lock on missiles ect.

So, here's a good question,

If tanks had a missile system set up to auto lock AV weapons firing on them, which would consist of 6-7 seeking missiles.

How many crazy threads would go up about that?

Also the same limitation had been imposed on the other AV weapons already, except its minimal splash.

If you read all the posts you would see we were manual fire for a build and what stopped that was infantry getting hit with it like a bazooka, causing wide spread QQ so the feature was removed.

To me, AV grenades and swarms = I will win against your tank, I haven't failed yet.

If you are already behind cover when swarms have a lock, ie they lock you, you hide, they fire, it will hit the side of the rock.

However if already in the air and you move, they will follow you around the rock. No escape.

And finally,

I say your lazy for not wanting to put some effort into the swarm launcher.

All the weapons are simple to use. Well maybe not grenades and MDs. But when I first got into AV and had to use the SWARMs for my chosen role until I could get into the Heavy Suit, I did notice how I was very vulnerable to snipers, tactical ARs, and anyone who was close enough to run up on me, while I was locking my target. It's the same as the vulnerability I have while charging the FG just without the durability of the heavy suit.

Yeah, I got in on the end of the swarm launcher dumb fire. Didn't matter to me as I saw the Forge Gun and worked for it. And I did read all the posts.

Lazy. I must not be too lazy as I'd rather grab my FG for AV use instead of a SWARM.

Defenses against lock and fire AV weapons... I would be all for an activated point defense module that could intercept SWARMS/rockets for a short period of time before going into cool down. Perhaps the same cycle rate as active hardeners. Though like everything else in these forums it would induce lots of OP QQ threads.

Our tank drivers taking cover behind obstacles are, most of the time, after launch. As I'm usually on the top turret scanning for threats and reporting to my driver, and returning fire if they're in range, I obviously get to see the swarms coming, and the terrain impact, as we move behind something successfully taking cover.

I have to agree with this guy. Is far to easy to lock into a tank, find cover in a save place ( like behind a rock ), and shoot your Swarm missiles around the rock .

Just another Over Powering thing in Dust 514....... it should be call : "Dust OP"

You guys make no sense. The swarm launcher is supposed to do all of the above. I don't understand why you people always have to come on here and whine about something as stupid as skill. Its a video game who the hell cares about skill in a video game?