We've been over this repeatedly for months on the forums- it's a death because you slowed down your team.
Preventing a death means you have to do some work- by getting downed, you failed to prevent yourself for potentially getting a death, but someone else put time and effort into picking your sorry ass off the ground.
A good KDR means you can take care of yourself- you don't need some medic saving your ass.

However, it only damages your KDR, because the medic saved you to keep the clone count up.

If they fix...what? Nothing is broken. You went down. Your HP went below 0. That's a death. You don't undo that just because someone saved you afterwards.

We've been over this repeatedly for months on the forums- it's a death because you slowed down your team.
Preventing a death means you have to do some work- by getting downed, you failed to prevent yourself for potentially getting a death, but someone else put time and effort into picking your sorry ass off the ground.
A good KDR means you can take care of yourself- you don't need some medic saving your ass.

However, it only damages your KDR, because the medic saved you to keep the clone count up.

If they fix...what? Nothing is broken. You went down. Your HP went below 0. That's a death. You don't undo that just because someone saved you afterwards.

Thats not true

Your KDR reflects how bad you suck, not your ISK efficiency.

Not true at all, your KDR reflects absolutely nothing. I agree with the OP that it shouldn't count as a death for the simple fact that you didn't die, you were just wounded. Perhaps you went crazy and reckless because you knew you had a medic nearby, but in any other circumstance you would of never made that decision. Honestly I don't care because KDR doesn't effect anything in this game, it's just a bragging stat.


My favorite suit is a logi and I run around supporting my team giving them ammo, repairing their armor, and picking them up when they fall. I'll often get in the top 3 players on the team with a few death and maybe only a couple kills simply because that's not what I'm focusing on. Heck, I made it into the top 3 players without killing anyone once.

And that is why medic get points for picking you up. Your not making sense buddy. As I said before you did not die yet. If they fix this it would be more of an incentive to let someone revive you.

To be honest i didn't realize that a "revive" counts as a death, to i saw this topic. Now i know this, i don't going to be waiting for a medic any more. As soon as i die, i going to re-spawn as quick as possible, and get a right NEW, fully restock dropsuite.

What you guys has done in the Close Beta ? it seems that CCP have some horrible advice from some of you guys.

When some one dies in a hospital and is then revived, they still died.

And came back, so they beat death. When they come back they are no longer dead. Stats should reflect most up to date information.

It seems you don't understand what a "death" is. It is an event that occurs, not a state of being. None of us can actually "die" as our consciousness is simply transferred to a new clone at the moment our current body expires.

Whether you spawn into a new clone or whether somebody uses a nanite injector on you is irrelevant. Your KDR is just another metric that potential employers can use to determine your value as a merc. Therefor each time you are killed it represent a potential loss of a clone and resources. This way it measures your skills at combat, not a corpmates skill with the needle.

Don't forget nothing is simply stuck in to this game. Everything has a purpose and to greatest extent possible nothing is arbitrary.

To be honest i didn't realize that a "revive" counts as a death, to i saw this topic. Now i know this, i don't going to be waiting for a medic any more. As soon as i die, i going to re-spawn as quick as possible, and get a right NEW, fully restock dropsuite.

What you guys has done in the Close Beta ? it seems that CCP have some horrible advice from some of you guys.

On the rare occasions that I run a logibro I'll let someone bleed out before I'll revive them without clearing the area first. Only time they'll get a double killed is if a red dot straight up outplays me and sneaks in there. The double death caused by idiots in pub matches is just that; idiots. It sucks that their stupidity screwed you but it happens to all of use and that doesn't mean they need to start changing game mechanics.

OP, What you're saying is that if you get downed and revived you shouldn't have a death on you, what is supposed to happen to the person that "killed" you? they took you all the way down and got a kill added to their stats, is that kill supposed to be removed once you get revived? that's robbing the enemy player of that kill. You're asking if it is intentionally implemented, i believe it is just to reflect the skill of all players. If someone bests you in combat and runs off, then a teammate comes up to revive you, that opponent still bested you and it should reflect on their stats.

it counts as a death because you died, if it weren't like that kdr's would be skewed.

Again aren't you lying there calling for help? Does the term bleeding out mean your already dead? Funny, I never heard a dead man call for help.

You get injected with zombie juice.

he doesnt talk, he only sends a text message. When you die dropsuits send out a message.

Ok, stop thinking about this in terms of what we currently think of as "dying". When you are lying on the ground you are not dead yet. When you "bleed out" I'm assuming the suit injects you with a neurotoxin before it disintegrates and transmitting your mind to a new clone. The "deaths" listed on your KDR is just a term used for becoming incapacitated and either spawning in to a new clone or getting hit with the needle. They are events that occur and therefor are discrete and cannot be "undone". You get put down, revived and put down again that's 2 deaths. Because it happened twice. Every kill has to have a death attached.

Otherwise it would become meaningless within a day. Got some corpmates on the other team? You and 2 red corpies run out to the middle of nowhere and you kill one of them, the other revives them, you kill them again, rinse and repeat. You get hundreds of kills they get 1 death. Every kill means someone gets a death.

Also, everyone's "true" KDR wouldn't exist because none of us have or will ever actually die.

You would die when you die, not when you have been revived. If you die then come back to life your not dead. Rinse and repeat see where the coin lands if your lucky it will be on life and you kdr should reflect that. However its cool to keep my deaths down I will just take my first death and keep it moving. No point in racking up on unnecessary deaths.

What?

Your given the option to fight to live or give up and die. Can't fight to live if your already dead. That is why your not given the option when hit by a grenade or shot by a railgun. You disintegrate. No life, instant death.

When you are on the ground, you are already medically dead. The suit sends out a distress beacon automatically. Hitting call and respawn are just so the player isn't locked there until it is too late. People can be revived from death, even IRL, if it happened soon enough and the body is still capably of supporting life. The Nanoinjector injects nanobots to repair damage, but it kinda needs but so much body to work with, hence insta-bleed-out on being 'gibbed'.

I started off thinking that, yes, we should not have a death if we are revived!

But then I got to really thinking about it... we are the immortals. We don't die. We get revived into another clone body; whether we are revived by nanites or a download - it is still technically a revive.

So there are really two statistics at play --- and anyone familiar with EVE knows that you can't have enough statistics.

1) Currently in-game we are given a statistic that represents kills per revival (no matter how we are revived)
2) Some people think it is more important to show the statistic for kills per lost clone (only when we actually use up a clone; by this statistic the in-battle revives would not count against us)

I think I actually see a place for both numbers. As JohnDS Wolf pointed out (top of page 2), allowing people to revive you is being almost as much of a team player as performing the actual injection --- not enough to warrant WP, but maybe enough to warrant a favorable statistic for corps to view.

No, you are not already "dead". The transfer of your consciousness has to happen at the instant of brain death or you risk degradation that could lead to loss of memories and abilities or possibly physical handicap or even insanity. And also possibly wet graving, but not sure of that's a concern for the mercs or only capsuleers.

Anything that pierces the skull triggers an automatic transfer as does the concussive force of an explosion. This is done as a failsafe to ensure the transfer completes. If the body were to survive the head wound or explosion it would still automatically be destroyed.

Tell that to the headshot-sniped people I've rezzed. Remember, the Merc technology is completely separate from the Capsuleer consciousness migration tech. People have been revived from headshots, low level explosives, and even LAVs to the brainpan. Once the body is too far gone to be revived however, then and only then do the incendiary packs go off.

Bringing a player's health to zero and killing him outright are two very different things, since the former allows the player to be revived, so yes, both variables should be tracked. K/D doesn't tell us how often a player has scored instant kills or prevented enemies from being revived. This would be an even more important statistic if we were given the ability to shoot downed players.

congrats, you just cost the team a clone that could have been used for some unfortunate sap that ran into a Tank. Being revive is still EXTREAMLY helpful. the fact you said that makes you only care about your self instead of your Team.

all in all, Revives shouldn't count as a death sence it dosn't count as a death acourding to the CC.

Agreed, this also relates to ISK values and clone loss. Tracking such things would provide a better indicator of the value both slayers and medics are providing on the field.

This would also be valuable information for recruiters. Although W/L and K/D can give them some idea of a player's skill, they need more information to evaluate potential recruits.

The KDR is already a pretty narrow view of the ability of a player. To alter it to KCR (Kill to Clone Ratio) would further dilute its usefulness.

KDR represents one view of the ability of a player to hamper the opposing team, that is the number of times they force the other team to spawn in or take time to revive the downed player.

KCR confounds the player's ability to harass the enemy team with his own team's ability to take care of him when he goes down. His revive requires another team member to stop killing or performing other useful actions to attend to him. He is thus a drag on his team each time he goes down.

KCR is a much better measure of team efficiency because it rewards teams that can kill the best with the least amount of logistical support.

Now if you're being penalized for being revived by a teammate with an additional death then this post should be posted in the bugs forum to be tested and fixed.

A 'death/kill' is when HP (both armor and shields in this case) drops to zero there's no workaround for that, you are dead. It has been the rule since role-playing games have been in existence. To 'revive' someone is to bringing someone from the brink of death just before the conscienceness is transfered back to the clone vat.

So to recap... if you HP goes to zero that means you have been defeated in battle which is a death for you and a kill for the recipient regardless if you've been revived. Just be glad that you don't have to respawn from one of your captured checkpoints, use a clone out of the reserve and run back to the battle.

Now if you're being penalized for being revived by a teammate with an additional death then this post should be posted in the bugs forum to be tested and fixed.

Just so we're on the same page, everybody who does not want it to count as a death if you are revived would be fine with it also not counting a kill?

Very simple really. If the person you wounded to near death bleeds out, you get the kill. If a medic does his job, and stops the bleeding before it dies, you don't get the kill, and obviously doesn't counts as a death.

I will support that 100%.

So you are fine with kill info and +50 (60) popping at a later time?

I imagine you would still get the points, but it wouldn't count as a kill, and the players you downed could still be displayed on the leaderboard. Example:

A/T/K/D (from left to right: assists, takedowns, kills and deaths)
4/6/5/2

How do you get points without getting a kill?

Very simple really. If the person you wounded to near death bleeds out, you get the kill. If a medic does his job, and stops the bleeding before it dies, you don't get the kill, and obviously doesn't counts as a death.

I will support that 100%.

So you are fine with kill info and +50 (60) popping at a later time?

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

As pointed out you don't have a kill without a death so you have to wait for the bleed out before you get the points and the credit.

So you may get your deaths erased but you will also get plenty of kills erased. Instead of going 15-2 you may go 7-0.

Instead of 750 WP you get 350. The other 400 went to the medics who picked them up.

Now add the ability to execute a downed merc. Your teammate gets the kill and you get the assist only if the execution is quick enough after the down to count. If you had an assist on the down you now get nothing as you weren't the second to last person to do damage.

All that so your stat looks a little better.

Presently, when you "kill" someone, you get 50 points. What I'm suggesting is that when you cut through a player's shields and armor, the following would appear:

+50 Takedown

You'd get the same amount of points for downing someone, but it would no longer count as a kill. To earn a kill, you would need to do one of the following:

• Take someone out with a headshot
• Shoot a downed player
• Prevent the enemy from reviving players you take down

Perhaps there could even be a small reward when you get a kill. Example:

+5 Kill

Alternatively, the reward for takedowns could be lowered to something like 40, and netting a kill would give you the remaining 10 points.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but that +50 are War Points you get for your contribution in battle, right ? You also get +25 for a kill assist right ? ... you see where i going with this ?

- Takedown counts the same as a Kill Assist +25
- Kill assist now counts as +15
- If the person you wounded dies, you get an extra +50
- If the medic rescues that person from death, it gets the +50

Also what Canaan Knute say about, "executing" down enemies, will also work better this way. You'll need to decide if you want to take the risk of a " Execution " for an extra +50 WP.

Edit: and when i say " Execution ", i mean a bullet in the head

I imagine you would still get the points, but it wouldn't count as a kill, and the players you downed could still be displayed on the leaderboard. Example:

A/T/K/D (from left to right: assists, takedowns, kills and deaths)
4/6/5/2

When some one dies in a hospital and is then revived, they still died.

So I was playing a game, trying to go X amount of kills and 0 deaths. I died one time and got revived. At the end of the match it said I went 12 and 1. As I understand it if a clone is revived that clone is spared, suits, weapon, etc. We don't actually die until we bleed out, so why should we take the death until we bleed out? If we wanted to get technical we are actually on the ground dying but not yet dead. What also make this bad, is when you get revived and die, revived and die, and so on, all those deaths count. I know of another game where a revive spared your death ratio. Now I know this is not that other game, it is Dust 514. So I post this to see if maybe it is a mistake/glitch, or is it intentional? I think this should be fixed. I wanted to know if the community knows this and how do they feel about it?

If they fix...what? Nothing is broken. You went down. Your HP went below 0. That's a death. You don't undo that just because someone saved you afterwards.

OP, What you're saying is that if you get downed and revived you shouldn't have a death on you, what is supposed to happen to the person that "killed" you? they took you all the way down and got a kill added to their stats, is that kill supposed to be removed once you get revived? that's robbing the enemy player of that kill. You're asking if it is intentionally implemented, i believe it is just to reflect the skill of all players. If someone bests you in combat and runs off, then a teammate comes up to revive you, that opponent still bested you and it should reflect on their stats.

Copied from earlier post:


Either this or Panther Alpha's idea:

You died, get over it.

You died, get over it.

How about a revived stat. . . I see a full side of negatives for it, but at the same time. Some people like useless screens full of stats. Gives Logi's something to do running around sticking needle junkies.

And the purpose I would hope is that the Revive will be HUGE when and if the MAPS get HUGE. I think respawns should put you back in the rear or specific strategic take over points to make that hump back to the front make youthink twice. A heavy waiting to revived and staying at the front is way more beneficial than respawning. Bigger maps will make revives very essential.

You died, get over it.