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KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2013.02.12 00:44:00 -
[61] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Just so we're on the same page, everybody who does not want it to count as a death if you are revived would be fine with it also not counting a kill? Very simple really. If the person you wounded to near death bleeds out, you get the kill. If a medic does his job, and stops the bleeding before it dies, you don't get the kill, and obviously doesn't counts as a death. I will support that 100%.
So you are fine with kill info and +50 (60) popping at a later time? |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 00:54:00 -
[62] - Quote
Another one of these threads...
In short and rude way:
If you down a guy, you earn a kill. (death/incapped).
If you are brought down, you've been a sucker and deserve a stamp on your forehead.
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Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis
14
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Posted - 2013.02.12 03:55:00 -
[63] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:So you are fine with kill info and +50 (60) popping at a later time? I imagine you would still get the points, but it wouldn't count as a kill, and the players you downed could still be displayed on the leaderboard. Example:
A/T/K/D (from left to right: assists, takedowns, kills and deaths) 4/6/5/2 |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
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Posted - 2013.02.12 04:14:00 -
[64] - Quote
Canaan Knute wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:So you are fine with kill info and +50 (60) popping at a later time? I imagine you would still get the points, but it wouldn't count as a kill, and the players you downed could still be displayed on the leaderboard. Example: A/T/K/D (from left to right: assists, takedowns, kills and deaths) 4/6/5/2 How do you get points without getting a kill? |
Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis
14
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Posted - 2013.02.12 05:19:00 -
[65] - Quote
Altina McAlterson wrote:How do you get points without getting a kill? Presently, when you "kill" someone, you get 50 points. What I'm suggesting is that when you cut through a player's shields and armor, the following would appear:
+50 Takedown
You'd get the same amount of points for downing someone, but it would no longer count as a kill. To earn a kill, you would need to do one of the following:
- Take someone out with a headshot
- Shoot a downed player
- Prevent the enemy from reviving players you take down
Perhaps there could even be a small reward when you get a kill. Example:
+5 Kill
Alternatively, the reward for takedowns could be lowered to something like 40, and netting a kill would give you the remaining 10 points. |
dabest2evadoit7
Cyberdyne Systems and Technology The Revenant Order
35
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Posted - 2013.02.12 07:05:00 -
[66] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Just so we're on the same page, everybody who does not want it to count as a death if you are revived would be fine with it also not counting a kill? Very simple really. If the person you wounded to near death bleeds out, you get the kill. If a medic does his job, and stops the bleeding before it dies, you don't get the kill, and obviously doesn't counts as a death. I will support that 100%. If this is implemented they would have to allow the "Final Blow". Allow a player to shoot the unconsciousness person on the ground killing him. Also I think this should maybe be in a different game mode like hardcore. This way if you drop someone then get drop by his buddy and his buddy revives him your loss. |
Panther Alpha
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
44
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Posted - 2013.02.12 09:01:00 -
[67] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Just so we're on the same page, everybody who does not want it to count as a death if you are revived would be fine with it also not counting a kill? Very simple really. If the person you wounded to near death bleeds out, you get the kill. If a medic does his job, and stops the bleeding before it dies, you don't get the kill, and obviously doesn't counts as a death. I will support that 100%. So you are fine with kill info and +50 (60) popping at a later time?
Correct me if i'm wrong, but that +50 are War Points you get for your contribution in battle, right ? You also get +25 for a kill assist right ? ... you see where i going with this ?
- Takedown counts the same as a Kill Assist +25 - Kill assist now counts as +15 - If the person you wounded dies, you get an extra +50 - If the medic rescues that person from death, it gets the +50
Also what Canaan Knute say about, "executing" down enemies, will also work better this way. You'll need to decide if you want to take the risk of a " Execution " for an extra +50 WP.
Edit: and when i say " Execution ", i mean a bullet in the head |
madd greazy
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
27
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Posted - 2013.02.12 11:25:00 -
[68] - Quote
This topic has bothered me since the closed beta, but i just kept my mouth shut the whole time because of all the idiots who respond to these posts. So screw it here goes!
Either way a death is a death, an incapacitation (unable to operate) however, is not a death.
Also KDR is absolutely pointless in any team based game, I've been number one in too many games to count and i religiously play as a logi, my KDR is almost always positive but even when it isn't, i'm still the top scoring player in the game.
back to the point... When you are incapacitated on the battlefield and are revived, just like all the intelligent people in this forum have dictated. You don't lose your gear or dropsuit, nor does your team lose a clone from the clone count. So if you consider this a death you have absolutely no sense of... well, common sense.
Also mentioned in this thread, was the fact that it would be more of an incentive for players to wait for a revive, as they could possibly keep their KDR intact if that's what they really care about. (KDR is only an Epeen stat).
Now if all the nambey pambey land dust players can't get over a mechanic that makes sense, maybe there should be a time limit after being revived before you can be incapacitated again without dieing, otherwise you would just die instantly. Another possibility would be to have a limit on the number of times one clone can be revived before dieing instantly. |
Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis
14
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Posted - 2013.02.12 16:04:00 -
[69] - Quote
If there was an option to decline revives, as some have suggested, it would help alleviate the "getting killed seconds after being revived" issue. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 16:33:00 -
[70] - Quote
Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
As pointed out you don't have a kill without a death so you have to wait for the bleed out before you get the points and the credit.
So you may get your deaths erased but you will also get plenty of kills erased. Instead of going 15-2 you may go 7-0.
Instead of 750 WP you get 350. The other 400 went to the medics who picked them up.
Now add the ability to execute a downed merc. Your teammate gets the kill and you get the assist only if the execution is quick enough after the down to count. If you had an assist on the down you now get nothing as you weren't the second to last person to do damage.
All that so your stat looks a little better. |
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Canaan Knute
Conspiratus Immortalis
14
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 16:44:00 -
[71] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
As pointed out you don't have a kill without a death so you have to wait for the bleed out before you get the points and the credit.
So you may get your deaths erased but you will also get plenty of kills erased. Instead of going 15-2 you may go 7-0.
Instead of 750 WP you get 350. The other 400 went to the medics who picked them up.
Now add the ability to execute a downed merc. Your teammate gets the kill and you get the assist only if the execution is quick enough after the down to count. If you had an assist on the down you now get nothing as you weren't the second to last person to do damage.
All that so your stat looks a little better. Copied from earlier post:
Canaan Knute wrote:Presently, when you "kill" someone, you get 50 points. What I'm suggesting is that when you cut through a player's shields and armor, the following would appear: +50 Takedown You'd get the same amount of points for downing someone, but it would no longer count as a kill. To earn a kill, you would need to do one of the following:
- Take someone out with a headshot
- Shoot a downed player
- Prevent the enemy from reviving players you take down
Perhaps there could even be a small reward when you get a kill. Example: +5 Kill Alternatively, the reward for takedowns could be lowered to something like 40, and netting a kill would give you the remaining 10 points. Either this or Panther Alpha's idea:
Panther Alpha wrote:Correct me if i'm wrong, but that +50 are War Points you get for your contribution in battle, right ? You also get +25 for a kill assist right ? ... you see where i going with this ? - Takedown counts the same as a Kill Assist +25 - Kill assist now counts as +15 - If the person you wounded dies, you get an extra +50 - If the medic rescues that person from death, it gets the +50 Also what Canaan Knute say about, "executing" down enemies, will also work better this way. You'll need to decide if you want to take the risk of a " Execution " for an extra +50 WP. Edit: and when i say " Execution ", i mean a bullet in the head |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 17:02:00 -
[72] - Quote
Canaan Knute wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:So you are fine with kill info and +50 (60) popping at a later time? I imagine you would still get the points, but it wouldn't count as a kill, and the players you downed could still be displayed on the leaderboard. Example: A/T/K/D (from left to right: assists, takedowns, kills and deaths) 4/6/5/2
This is one of the best ideas i have seen to the whole Kill not being a kill and death not being a death, in fairness they just aint, the other post about rewards being awarded as takedown and then a kill if you either finish off or make them bleed out with no help.
As for the takedowns i thought of something that would be traditional of eve in that all paries involved with a takedown would be rewarded with one after all a takedown is just bases on who gets last shot so why aint the other guys just as entitled to it as everyone involved to be rewarded it would fix the whole kill stealing stuff that happens.
People can complain that adding such a feature would water down a statistic but i would agrue you can do it now for example a day or so i killed one guy 3 times because a logi kept reviving him did i deserve 3 kills id say no my or his skill sure as hell had nothing to do with it.
People say that people who are in favor of such changes are for kdr people with big egos again id disagree people who want to keep KDR as it is are the people who want to keep it as a measuring stick to which measure there epeen. |
The-Last-Ninja
FIND CARL CORP
34
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 17:12:00 -
[73] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Razor Risen wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:If they fix...what? Nothing is broken. You went down. Your HP went below 0. That's a death. You don't undo that just because someone saved you afterwards. Thats not true When some one dies in a hospital and is then revived, they still died.
You're still conscious when you're downed in DUST. It is merely incapacitation when both shield and armor HP[Hit Points] reaches 0. At that point, you can either wait for a medic to help you back on your feet, or you can choose to dispose of that clone. It's not really the death of that clone until it is completely disposed of.
Executions/bleed-out like MAG had would be a good feature. |
Dayland Sjon
M.I.A.C Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 00:48:00 -
[74] - Quote
Soooo... lemme see if I understand this after reading all the posts... If one of you guys defeat me in battle then you don't get the kill (or 'takedown' because you don't technically die according to the mentioned scenario) because my good buddy the logibro came and brought me back to my feet?! But if I happen to kill or 'takedown' one of you after being revived and you have no logibro to bring you back then that'll be a kill for me without a notch in my deaths? Ladies & Gentlemen, that's really unfair to you (using this system) but SOLD! Then all I need to do is have a dedicated logibro to revive me after each time I fall and I should have no or very little deaths for the battle. NOTE: this is know as an exploit.
What you're talking about in laymans... It's something like getting into a fight at school/bar and you get your butt kicked but you didn't lose the fight because your friend picked your sorry butt off the ground. LAME!
A similar scenario like this was in EVE... if a player ejected from his ship before the ship was destroyed then the killmail wouldn't go to the players involved from that player. The supposed logic behind it was that if the player wasn't in control of the ship at the time of it's destruction then there should be no killmail generated . This exploit was fixed a while ago and even if you eject from your ship before it's destruction you lost a ship and involved parties get on the killmail.
HTFU, a defeat is a defeat! Quit trying to split hairs... |
Eris Ernaga
Super Smash Bros Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 05:25:00 -
[75] - Quote
I posted this on the forums and got mostly disagreements from people who couldn't see it my way or be bothered I agree why does a revive count as an extra death being picked up then re dropped immediately is no fun. One drop should count as one death as I say |
Eris Ernaga
Super Smash Bros Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 05:27:00 -
[76] - Quote
dabest2evadoit7 wrote:So I was playing a game, trying to go X amount of kills and 0 deaths. I died one time and got revived. At the end of the match it said I went 12 and 1. As I understand it if a clone is revived that clone is spared, suits, weapon, etc. We don't actually die until we bleed out, so why should we take the death until we bleed out? If we wanted to get technical we are actually on the ground dying but not yet dead. What also make this bad, is when you get revived and die, revived and die, and so on, all those deaths count. I know of another game where a revive spared your death ratio. Now I know this is not that other game, it is Dust 514. So I post this to see if maybe it is a mistake/glitch, or is it intentional? I think this should be fixed. I wanted to know if the community knows this and how do they feel about it?
Especially considering the clone count doesn't go down until you actually die and cant be revived.
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Eris Ernaga
Super Smash Bros Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 05:28:00 -
[77] - Quote
Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:If they fix...what? Nothing is broken. You went down. Your HP went below 0. That's a death. You don't undo that just because someone saved you afterwards.
No it is not a death you got downt not killed why do you think the clone count doesnt go down until you can actually die? You are sitll breathing on the ground thus it is a broken system. Why are you so mad over sparing players and even your self a break as well you'd still be getting a kill? |
Eris Ernaga
Super Smash Bros Friends United Seeking Influence and Notoriety
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 05:35:00 -
[78] - Quote
Anighman Hanna wrote:OP, What you're saying is that if you get downed and revived you shouldn't have a death on you, what is supposed to happen to the person that "killed" you? they took you all the way down and got a kill added to their stats, is that kill supposed to be removed once you get revived? that's robbing the enemy player of that kill. You're asking if it is intentionally implemented, i believe it is just to reflect the skill of all players. If someone bests you in combat and runs off, then a teammate comes up to revive you, that opponent still bested you and it should reflect on their stats.
Then how about they get 50 points and its called downing then 10 points once that player dies or when they finish him on the ground. Could also be a 40 then 10 point system not very complicated like you are making it sound, its not going to break the system as I feel you are suggesting. |
Ronan Elsword
Dead Six Initiative
7
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 09:43:00 -
[79] - Quote
You died, get over it. |
Panther Alpha
Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 09:51:00 -
[80] - Quote
Canaan Knute wrote:Skihids wrote:Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.
As pointed out you don't have a kill without a death so you have to wait for the bleed out before you get the points and the credit.
So you may get your deaths erased but you will also get plenty of kills erased. Instead of going 15-2 you may go 7-0.
Instead of 750 WP you get 350. The other 400 went to the medics who picked them up.
Now add the ability to execute a downed merc. Your teammate gets the kill and you get the assist only if the execution is quick enough after the down to count. If you had an assist on the down you now get nothing as you weren't the second to last person to do damage.
All that so your stat looks a little better. Copied from earlier post: Canaan Knute wrote:Presently, when you "kill" someone, you get 50 points. What I'm suggesting is that when you cut through a player's shields and armor, the following would appear: +50 Takedown You'd get the same amount of points for downing someone, but it would no longer count as a kill. To earn a kill, you would need to do one of the following:
- Take someone out with a headshot
- Shoot a downed player
- Prevent the enemy from reviving players you take down
Perhaps there could even be a small reward when you get a kill. Example: +5 Kill Alternatively, the reward for takedowns could be lowered to something like 40, and netting a kill would give you the remaining 10 points. Either this or Panther Alpha's idea: Panther Alpha wrote:Correct me if i'm wrong, but that +50 are War Points you get for your contribution in battle, right ? You also get +25 for a kill assist right ? ... you see where i going with this ? - Takedown counts the same as a Kill Assist +25 - Kill assist now counts as +15 - If the person you wounded dies, you get an extra +50 - If the medic rescues that person from death, it gets the +50 Also what Canaan Knute say about, "executing" down enemies, will also work better this way. You'll need to decide if you want to take the risk of a " Execution " for an extra +50 WP. Edit: and when i say " Execution ", i mean a bullet in the head
Just getting this back to the bottom of the page again.... Some people have problems reading the full topic :
Ronan Elsword wrote:You died, get over it. |
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HUGO SHTIGLETZ
RestlessSpirits
27
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 10:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
dont know why poeple are so heated about this, this game is about teamwork not KDR so why would you care if the death was subtracted? shouldnt that be a good reward for running with a team and using teamwork... right now there is no incentive to get picked up... im already dead why not bleed out so i have full sheild, armor, ammo and equiptment and on top of that theres no risk of being killed before your even back on your feet resulting in another death.
think about it... this isnt as big of an issue as your making it. |
Panther Alpha
Blueberries United
80
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 12:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
If you not dead, you should be alive. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 12:43:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ronan Elsword wrote:You died, get over it.
Well I really don't care whether I get a death or not when revived. But according to your statement the team has to loose a clone regardless if someone gets revived or not. If it would cost a clone whats the benefit for the team? It seems just a bit strange that the game mechanic treats death in two different ways. |
Rekon Syport
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 12:59:00 -
[84] - Quote
How about a revived stat. . . I see a full side of negatives for it, but at the same time. Some people like useless screens full of stats. Gives Logi's something to do running around sticking needle junkies.
And the purpose I would hope is that the Revive will be HUGE when and if the MAPS get HUGE. I think respawns should put you back in the rear or specific strategic take over points to make that hump back to the front make youthink twice. A heavy waiting to revived and staying at the front is way more beneficial than respawning. Bigger maps will make revives very essential. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 13:14:00 -
[85] - Quote
Rekon Syport wrote:How about a revived stat. . . I see a full side of negatives for it, but at the same time. Some people like useless screens full of stats. Gives Logi's something to do running around sticking needle junkies.
And the purpose I would hope is that the Revive will be HUGE when and if the MAPS get HUGE. I think respawns should put you back in the rear or specific strategic take over points to make that hump back to the front make youthink twice. A heavy waiting to revived and staying at the front is way more beneficial than respawning. Bigger maps will make revives very essential.
Not necessarily because that is what uplinks are for. I guess with bigger maps you will more likely see people running with uplinks and placing them near the action instead of providing save spawn areas apart from the action... |
Rekon Syport
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
6
|
Posted - 2013.03.05 13:38:00 -
[86] - Quote
Agreed Korvin, I was just not trying to be logng winded. But yes, the entire package concept would be bringing more thought or diversity to Drop Links, Revives etc. Customizing your squad equipment since if you bring the wrong gear, oops. A droplink slot and push forward, revive and rep etc etc. Brings more of a strategic placement and defense order as you go. Right now Droplinks are for building tops and spawn farming, but this just brings more diversity in both regards. Holding ground while you wait for a respawn at the DL etc. But I this may be taking the thread off topic. Anyway. BIGGER MAPS, more peoples. :)
**And a revived stat** Watch people get mad Logis are sticking people under fire for a stat counter. But then if I've run through 1k inkektors I personally know I've revived 1k clones. But could be on leader boards or public someplace. (among many other tats Im sure we have all thoguht of) |
Chinduko
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
21
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 03:14:00 -
[87] - Quote
If the death count was removed and replace with an ISK lost stat, people wouldn't be worried about their KDR and might actually play more aggressively! |
Shijima Kuraimaru
WarRavens
173
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 04:31:00 -
[88] - Quote
Solutions...
S1. Downed = dead. Kill count goes up, death count goes up. No bleed out timer, no calling for help, no revives, no heartbeat sound, no fading vision, standard loss of load out, go immediately to deployment screen. No need for medics. Battlefield role and source of WP/SP lost to Dust 514 community.
S2. Downed = down and dead. Kill count goes up, death count goes up. Half normal bleed out timer, no calling for help, no heartbeat sound, normal fading vision. Medics have to look for downed mercs. Fewer medics on battlefield, much QQ about lack of medics causing unnecessary loss of load outs. (Could be from an instant kill, but non annihilation weapon)
S3. Downed = down. Kill count and death count goes up only on respawn, WPs gained as normal. Normal bleed out timer, normal calling for help, normal heartbeat sound, normal fading vision. Medics have to look for downed mercs who don't call for help. Medics QQ about mercs respawning with medic right there to revive them. Mercs QQ about medics taking time to make sure area is clear before they revive, or reviving the Merc into a hail of enemy fire resulting in another downing.
S4. Maintain status quo.
Of course there could be a combination of the first three.
S1 through S3 results could possibly be linked to an overkill threshold. Downed but threshold not reached gets S3. Threshold reached, but not doubled, S2. Threshold doubles, S1. It could be simple and elegant or perhaps it would be a coding nightmare. I don't know but it could make things a bit more interesting |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
326
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 05:34:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ronan Elsword wrote:You died, get over it.
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CrAZy BaNaNaZZ
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.03.06 12:12:00 -
[90] - Quote
Yes this is one thing that needs fixed. |
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