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Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
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Posted - 2013.02.09 02:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
dabest2evadoit7 wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Razor Risen wrote:Alan-Ibn-Xuan Al-Alasabe wrote:If they fix...what? Nothing is broken. You went down. Your HP went below 0. That's a death. You don't undo that just because someone saved you afterwards. Thats not true When some one dies in a hospital and is then revived, they still died. And came back, so they beat death. When they come back they are no longer dead. Stats should reflect most up to date information.
It seems you don't understand what a "death" is. It is an event that occurs, not a state of being. None of us can actually "die" as our consciousness is simply transferred to a new clone at the moment our current body expires.
Whether you spawn into a new clone or whether somebody uses a nanite injector on you is irrelevant. Your KDR is just another metric that potential employers can use to determine your value as a merc. Therefor each time you are killed it represent a potential loss of a clone and resources. This way it measures your skills at combat, not a corpmates skill with the needle.
Don't forget nothing is simply stuck in to this game. Everything has a purpose and to greatest extent possible nothing is arbitrary. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
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Posted - 2013.02.09 03:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
On the rare occasions that I run a logibro I'll let someone bleed out before I'll revive them without clearing the area first. Only time they'll get a double killed is if a red dot straight up outplays me and sneaks in there. The double death caused by idiots in pub matches is just that; idiots. It sucks that their stupidity screwed you but it happens to all of use and that doesn't mean they need to start changing game mechanics.
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Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
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Posted - 2013.02.09 04:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ok, stop thinking about this in terms of what we currently think of as "dying". When you are lying on the ground you are not dead yet. When you "bleed out" I'm assuming the suit injects you with a neurotoxin before it disintegrates and transmitting your mind to a new clone. The "deaths" listed on your KDR is just a term used for becoming incapacitated and either spawning in to a new clone or getting hit with the needle. They are events that occur and therefor are discrete and cannot be "undone". You get put down, revived and put down again that's 2 deaths. Because it happened twice. Every kill has to have a death attached.
Otherwise it would become meaningless within a day. Got some corpmates on the other team? You and 2 red corpies run out to the middle of nowhere and you kill one of them, the other revives them, you kill them again, rinse and repeat. You get hundreds of kills they get 1 death. Every kill means someone gets a death.
Also, everyone's "true" KDR wouldn't exist because none of us have or will ever actually die. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 05:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
dabest2evadoit7 wrote:You would die when you die, not when you have been revived. If you die then come back to life your not dead. Rinse and repeat see where the coin lands if your lucky it will be on life and you kdr should reflect that. However its cool to keep my deaths down I will just take my first death and keep it moving. No point in racking up on unnecessary deaths.
What? |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 06:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:dabest2evadoit7 wrote:Prangstar RND wrote:he doesnt talk, he only sends a text message. When you die dropsuits send out a message. Your given the option to fight to live or give up and die. Can't fight to live if your already dead. That is why your not given the option when hit by a grenade or shot by a railgun. You disintegrate. No life, instant death. When you are on the ground, you are already medically dead. The suit sends out a distress beacon automatically. Hitting call and respawn are just so the player isn't locked there until it is too late. People can be revived from death, even IRL, if it happened soon enough and the body is still capably of supporting life. The Nanoinjector injects nanobots to repair damage, but it kinda needs but so much body to work with, hence insta-bleed-out on being 'gibbed'.
No, you are not already "dead". The transfer of your consciousness has to happen at the instant of brain death or you risk degradation that could lead to loss of memories and abilities or possibly physical handicap or even insanity. And also possibly wet graving, but not sure of that's a concern for the mercs or only capsuleers.
Anything that pierces the skull triggers an automatic transfer as does the concussive force of an explosion. This is done as a failsafe to ensure the transfer completes. If the body were to survive the head wound or explosion it would still automatically be destroyed.
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Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
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Posted - 2013.02.09 06:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lunch Bag wrote:I started off thinking that, yes, we should not have a death if we are revived!
But then I got to really thinking about it... we are the immortals. We don't die. We get revived into another clone body; whether we are revived by nanites or a download - it is still technically a revive.
So there are really two statistics at play --- and anyone familiar with EVE knows that you can't have enough statistics.
1) Currently in-game we are given a statistic that represents kills per revival (no matter how we are revived)
2) Some people think it is more important to show the statistic for kills per lost clone (only when we actually use up a clone; by this statistic the in-battle revives would not count against us)
I think I actually see a place for both numbers. As JohnDS Wolf pointed out (top of page 2), allowing people to revive you is being almost as much of a team player as performing the actual injection --- not enough to warrant WP, but maybe enough to warrant a favorable statistic for corps to view.
Every kill has to have a resulting death for the KDR to work. Otherwise it would be far to easy to manipulate insane KDR's and render the statistic meaningless. When a person is looking at a Merc's stats the KDR is a very good factor for evaluation of the merc's usefulness.
It's already possible to manipulate but not counting every time you hit the ground as a death would make it much worse. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
|
Posted - 2013.02.09 07:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote:Altina McAlterson wrote:Zero Harpuia wrote:dabest2evadoit7 wrote:Prangstar RND wrote:he doesnt talk, he only sends a text message. When you die dropsuits send out a message. Your given the option to fight to live or give up and die. Can't fight to live if your already dead. That is why your not given the option when hit by a grenade or shot by a railgun. You disintegrate. No life, instant death. When you are on the ground, you are already medically dead. The suit sends out a distress beacon automatically. Hitting call and respawn are just so the player isn't locked there until it is too late. People can be revived from death, even IRL, if it happened soon enough and the body is still capably of supporting life. The Nanoinjector injects nanobots to repair damage, but it kinda needs but so much body to work with, hence insta-bleed-out on being 'gibbed'. No, you are not already "dead". The transfer of your consciousness has to happen at the instant of brain death or you risk degradation that could lead to loss of memories and abilities or possibly physical handicap or even insanity. And also possibly wet graving, but not sure of that's a concern for the mercs or only capsuleers. Anything that pierces the skull triggers an automatic transfer as does the concussive force of an explosion. This is done as a failsafe to ensure the transfer completes. If the body were to survive the head wound or explosion it would still automatically be destroyed. Tell that to the headshot-sniped people I've rezzed. Remember, the Merc technology is completely separate from the Capsuleer consciousness migration tech. People have been revived from headshots, low level explosives, and even LAVs to the brainpan. Once the body is too far gone to be revived however, then and only then do the incendiary packs go off.
Well there you go. I was under the impression that a headshot was a sure thing but I guess not.
And as far as the tech being separate I thought the core tech was the same (albeit more primitive) it only lacked the entangled particles that enable a capsuleer to be instantly revived at the designated station regardless of distance. Our system is limited by causality and therefor is short range only.
I might be completely off, though. I'm tired and probably really confused. Although I thought the pounding heartbeat was a pretty good indication that you were still alive while on the ground. |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
|
Posted - 2013.02.11 21:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Just so we're on the same page, everybody who does not want it to count as a death if you are revived would be fine with it also not counting a kill? |
Altina McAlterson
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
363
|
Posted - 2013.02.12 04:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
Canaan Knute wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:So you are fine with kill info and +50 (60) popping at a later time? I imagine you would still get the points, but it wouldn't count as a kill, and the players you downed could still be displayed on the leaderboard. Example: A/T/K/D (from left to right: assists, takedowns, kills and deaths) 4/6/5/2
How do you get points without getting a kill? |
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