When you start working with a logi armor becomes very important. Shields have a delay before they start recharging, with a good logi your armor will constantly recover. Also there are modules that repair armor, and you can get up to 5 per second. Stack two of those and it's 10 per second. Now do that with a logi who is heading around 32 per second.

Shields are more of the lone wolf/sneaky HP type, armor is more of the group in your face frontline HP type. I guarantee you it doesn't matter how good you shields are, a squad of armor users will beat out a squad of shield users nearly every time.

Look, my main may be a heavy but my alt is a logi, I don't need a lecture on the advantages/disadvantages of the logi suit. Also, your math is wrong....

In order to get to the 4 HP/s reppers, you have to hit level 5 Armor Repair. Each level adds 3% to the amount of HP/s repped.
(4*2) + (.03*5) = 8.15 HP/s. And according to one thread on here, the 3% increase may be broken right now.

Also, I reject your notion that armor tankers can take shield tankers. I reject it based on the fact that That I have yet to see it happen. In relation to heavies....

I armor tanked my heavy....run 812 HP in armor and 100 for shields. Totals 912 HP. My Type II suit runs 320 shields and 512 armor...832 total points.

However, I find I do WAY better with the fewer hp suit because of the extra shields over armor (and the shields). You can do more in extended fights and survive longer.

Again, shields uber alles.

Only part of my math that my be off is that there is no .03 increase to repair tools, and I was calculating using the maximum potential. So that is using the highest repair module twice, 5*2*1.03^5 = 11.59 + 44 from the highest repair tool = 55.59 HP/sec.

My buddy goes armored heavy while I use an advanced repair tool and we rarely die, other heavies have stood no chance from all my experience although I have no clue what type of modules they are using.

I armor tanked my heavy....run 812 HP in armor and 100 for shields. Totals 912 HP. My Type II suit runs 320 shields and 512 armor...832 total points.

However, I find I do WAY better with the fewer hp suit because of the extra shields over armor (and the shields). You can do more in extended fights and survive longer.

With the right gear, and situation, armor reps can be higher than incoming dps its and at this point armor really shines

Wow, I so wish I lived in this perfect world you live in. Where grenades and mass drivers don't take out your logi support (because you always have logi support) and where the opposing team hasn't called out your location and the next thing you know you're swarmed by no less than 4 guys from two different directions and you get three of them near dead until they slink around a corner and the fourth guy kills you.

How in the WORLD does armor, which self repairs at less than 10HP a second, over come someone with damage mods and is dealing over 30 HP worth of damage per round?

nope, not buying it. Armor does not beat shields due to the speed and natural regen factor.

On one of my assault alts, I went from the Type III back to the Type II and was amazed at the difference in the results.

This game is about shields, period.

How is 512 armor less then 320 shields ? Also how do you fit an extra 412 armor on an assault suit with 2 low slots, sure you can get up to 412 total armor but not 512. (typo?) besides what use is an assault suit thats rigged for speed gonna do with -20 speed ?

And if eventually everyone runs a Logi with 4 plates, they are gonna be slower speed as a heavy, except easier to kill.

I run my assault II with top shield extenders because its a suit meant to be shield tanked and 120 armor or so, once someone gets trough those shields, you die really fast.

But in relation to EVE, Shield tanking trumps Armor tanking armor tanks are just better at being buffer tanks that are remote repped to take large amounts of punishments, same here actually. Also those big Armor plates on ships make them fat and slow, same here....so it makes sense.

Solo > Shield Tank
Group > Armor Tank

I armor tanked my heavy....run 812 HP in armor and 100 for shields. Totals 912 HP. My Type II suit runs 320 shields and 512 armor...832 total points.

That's a Type II HEAVY suit. not assault.
And what idiot would tun 4 plates on a Logi proto instead of running armor reppers, a shield mod, and then maybe a plate...and where did I intimate that I thought anyone would?
Based on your lacklaster previous two points I can't take your eve .02 ISK into consideration.

Thanks for posting there, superchampion.

The speed of running shields is why shields are so good. It's harder to hit a fast target than say a slower one with lots of health. I can pound round after round into an armor heavy because of how easy they are to shoot at, but shield heavies tend to be quicker and harder to hit.

Same thing with assaults.

Also, complex shield mods aren't really that great when you consider the bonus from shield control. Having an extra 10% is like having a free shield extender (assuming you have more than 200 shield in the first place).

Getting to at least 15 or 20% increase in shield is necessary before you even consider putting skill points into shield enhancements.

As I pointed out a couple posts up, you can get armor repairs going at 55.5 HP/s (with just one guy repairing) which is can definitely be more than incoming damage in a lot of situations..

So the point of this thread is to say shield is OP?

I remember a time when I was pretty jazzed to play this game because it looked like it was going to present an FPS with more choices for character customization than ever before.

Currently, that impression, and any hope of seeing something like that, is beyond dead.

Every single guy I know that can pub stomp/kill well all have two things in common. Natural Skill and shields to 11.
The Skill part is just them.

The Shield part however, is all CCP. In this game, if you want to run assault, the hot trick it to actually choose the Arbiter as your starting fit, than choosing the Enforcer, which is the actual Assault starter fit, just to get the headstart on the shields.
Everyone I know that goes for a "tanked" AR build goes straight for Complex Shield extenders and then drop suits to hold more complex shield extenders.

There are players that spec for glass cannon, ie damage mods, but against 2 tanked ARs or a Heavy, they usually end up on the losing side. However, one tanked AR vs two lesser tanked ARs or a Heavy can absolutely win.

The suit that all my guys are wearing right now is the Type II Assault suit....why? ...MOAR Shields. Right now, I'm using the Type II Heavy suit for the exact same reason...over the Type III....it's Type III, why is it not better than the type II, even running twin Tier III reppers?

And it makes sense. Shields regen naturally, armor doesn't. Additional Shields don't slow you down, armor does. You get more Hi slots than low as you progress through the suits. Speaking of which, several players have remarked that the Level 5 Logi suit may be the best in the game....why?.....four complex shield extenders or combo'd with shield regen mods.

Now, granted, it costs more SP to get to those shield extenders, but it's not unattainable by any means and you can get to enhanced extenders just by specing right at the outset of your build.

My biggest gripe here is that I thought Dust was supposed to be different than CoD and BF3 in it's "meta" game. But in reality, it's very much the same. You have to go for shields. Shields trump everything. Armor tanking isn't even an option for ground troops.

I thought that in EvE there were advantages/disadvantages for shield tanking vs armor tanking (I never got too into EvE past PVE missions and mining)....there appears to be ZERO incentive in this game to armor tank, which means that it's just a much more complex CoD/BF3, but at the end of the day, it's the same game in the aspect that there are few options for players to choose if they really want to compete.

Aside from more flux nade users, i've always said CCP should allow us to self repair if we're carrying a rep kit AND make armor twice as resistant to lasers as it is now. This would offset the heat build up lasers have without having to nerf lasers. This would give an additional reason to armor tank.

You really wasted your time writing this. Just use flux grenades

and you wasted everyone's time by posting without reading.....

His issue isn't with shields being OP....he simply feels as if armor tanking isn't a valid option at present.

Flux grenade > Shields
Laser rifle > Shields

Laser Rifle > Armor

shields are better, and always have been better.

i maintain that armor plates should not have movement penalties. it's the cherry on the "why bother armor tanking" sundae. they are the only module with their own built in NEGATIVE.

every module already has the downside of NOT being some other module. it ate up a slot and PG/CPU you could have spent somewhere else?

and don't anybody try to say "armor is heavy so you HAVE to move slower" we don't HAVE to do ****, this is a videogame. all CCP has to do is change the description to read "by swapping in improved materials, this module enhances dropsuit armor without increasing weight" or they use up powergrid and cpu right? how bout the module "adds an additional layer of armor while rerouting power to the suits joints, maintaining mobility"



if they didn't have mobility penalties, then you could make the "with support vs without support" argument, but even then it's a tough pill to swallow. i'd rather the logi guy just shoot the people shooting me since my shields can just take care of themselves.

and you wasted everyone's time by posting without reading.....

His issue isn't with shields being OP....he simply feels as if armor tanking isn't a valid option at present.

In EVE (oh boy here we go again) fitting shield extenders to your ship will increase the "signature radius" of the ship, basically making it easier for other ships to land a successful hit on it. It also makes it easier to target.

Maybe shield extenders in Dust should increase your suit's signature profile so you appear on the map easily

and also inflate your hitboxes a little bit

And that really was the point of the thread. That this game is rather generic, but complexly so. It's really not different from CoD or BF3 because everyone's running the same gear/spec/fit for the most part.

I will stick with my so called weak shield tanking. If i wanted to walk as slow as a member of the walking dead, i will slap some armor on. Everything i am hearing is 1 vs 1. why not talk about the benifits of running self sufficent shield tank squads that need no logi member.

There is a reason why everyone and their mother runs a shield tank rather then an armor tank. Its because armor takes so long to regenerate, while my shields pop up right away.

/End thread

Finally someone who knows what their talking about.

Armor already has the negative edge that it cannot be repaired without modules or a Logi. Shields can be recharged but cost more CPU. Why the hell did they add another negative to armor that is reduced speed? I've refused to even upgrade my armor skill past the basic level because the reduction in speed is not worth it.

And honestly, it is just not on heavies, I enjoy the shield aspect of duck and cover, and relying on my shields to pop like a twerk marathon on my assault and scout. i admit sometimes I get myself in trouble at times by over staying the line of fire trying to get that last HP from the enemy at times, but for the most part...duck and cover.

My biggest gripe here is that I thought Dust was supposed to be different than CoD and BF3 in it's "meta" game.

Thats one way of doing it... I counter by filling my highs with complex dmg mods... i hardly notice shields any more...

Also think of dust like a savanna. If there are more antelope, lions have trouble catching these bouncy prey, but cheetah suddenly become abundant.
In dust if people start running shields, prepare to see laser rifles and flux grenades. Not to mention any new toys not out yet...

*slips on flame proof undies*

Shields are for Pussys who will want to run away at some point haha

In EVE (oh boy here we go again) fitting shield extenders to your ship will increase the "signature radius" of the ship, basically making it easier for other ships to land a successful hit on it. It also makes the ship easier to detect with probes, and faster to lock onto.

Maybe shield extenders in Dust should increase your suit's signature profile so you appear on the map easily

and also inflate your hitboxes a little bit

I run with 2 complex damage and a armour plate on type-ii. Not much speed hit, 269 shield and 190 armour, for 459ehp and 132.1% bonus damage with skills and mods. I often kill target before shield drops, so more shield is not needed.

Many of EvE's armour mods are not in game yet, I think if they are added it would help armour vs shield balance.

Also, we only have caldari assault so far, caldari are the shield specialists. When we have an amarr assault it will probably armour tank well.

That's one way of doing it... I counter by filling my highs with complex dmg mods... i hardly notice shields any more...

Also think of dust like a savanna. If there are more antelope, lions have trouble catching these bouncy prey, but cheetah suddenly become abundant.
In dust if people start running shields, prepare to see laser rifles and flux grenades. Not to mention any new toys not out yet...

uhhh, go shields and armour, dik heads

When you start working with a logi armor becomes very important. Shields have a delay before they start recharging, with a good logi your armor will constantly recover. Also there are modules that repair armor, and you can get up to starting at 2 per second and going to 5 per second. Stack two of those and it's 4-10 per second. Now do that with a logi who is healing around 25-44 per second. That results in a minimum of 29 HP recovered per second to a maximum of 55 per second. And actually there is a 3% increase with each level of armor repair and repair rate if they get to level 5, so that actually is a max of around 62 HP per second.

Shields are more of the lone wolf/sneaky HP type, armor is more of the group in your face frontline HP type. If you got a squad that maxed out on the armor repair they would be really tough to take down.

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