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lowratehitman
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
284
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Posted - 2013.02.08 07:40:00 -
[61] - Quote
slap26 wrote:There is a reason why everyone and their mother runs a shield tank rather then an armor tank. Its because armor takes so long to regenerate, while my shields pop up right away.
And honestly, it is just not on heavies, I enjoy the shield aspect of duck and cover, and relying on my shields to pop like a twerk marathon on my assault and scout. i admit sometimes I get myself in trouble at times by over staying the line of fire trying to get that last HP from the enemy at times, but for the most part...duck and cover. |
lowratehitman
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
284
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Posted - 2013.02.08 07:46:00 -
[62] - Quote
Speaking of a twerk marathon..lol..check out buffett jackson, very funny!
http://youtu.be/lVjSRjKPglA |
NightEagle11
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
17
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Posted - 2013.02.08 07:48:00 -
[63] - Quote
Hi |
Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
52
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Posted - 2013.02.08 07:55:00 -
[64] - Quote
IRuby Heart wrote:Buzzwords wrote:shields are better, and always have been better.
i maintain that armor plates should not have movement penalties. it's the cherry on the "why bother armor tanking" sundae. they are the only module with their own built in NEGATIVE.
every module already has the downside of NOT being some other module. it ate up a slot and PG/CPU you could have spent somewhere else?
and don't anybody try to say "armor is heavy so you HAVE to move slower" we don't HAVE to do ****, this is a videogame. all CCP has to do is change the description to read "by swapping in improved materials, this module enhances dropsuit armor without increasing weight" or they use up powergrid and cpu right? how bout the module "adds an additional layer of armor while rerouting power to the suits joints, maintaining mobility"
if they didn't have mobility penalties, then you could make the "with support vs without support" argument, but even then it's a tough pill to swallow. i'd rather the logi guy just shoot the people shooting me since my shields can just take care of themselves. /End thread Finally someone who knows what their talking about. Armor already has the negative edge that it cannot be repaired without modules or a Logi. Shields can be recharged but cost more CPU. Why the hell did they add another negative to armor that is reduced speed? I've refused to even upgrade my armor skill past the basic level because the reduction in speed is not worth it.
Incorrect answer. Armor is heavy because it has mass; mass is a physical property of solid matter. EVE and Dust are intended to at least incorporate some semblance of realism. Most of us like it that way.
The correct answer, is that there should be added benefits to offset the mass penalty. Currently, it only adds structural HP to your armor and presumably helps you resist laser based attacks while making you more vulnerable to projectile based attacks, and doing nothing to serve you better than shields against hybrids which are nearly the most prevalent weapon in the game.
Hence your problem.
To offset the penalty of mass, one might consider added density, or properties such as lower scan profile, (in EVE, Shield Extenders add to your signature radius, and presumably they do in Dust as well). That may be a significant or insignificant advantage.
Even with some skill in the right electronics, I still don't detect a suit unless it is sitting right on top of me or I'm looking at it, and it doesn't really matter what it is.
Armor in EVE tends to offset some of this penalty with higher overall base resistances, though lower than shields with respect to Kinetic and Explosive damage generally. This changes based on Tech level and Faction of the ship.
I don't even know what my suit resistances are, and I'm not sure it will ever even be a relevant part of Dust. |
Gemini Cuspid
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.02.08 07:55:00 -
[65] - Quote
I've noticed the shield issues a bit and switched off to flux grenades. I think the oddity of the game is pending on the skill path, there's a perfect counter for everything. Armor building via modules isn't fun as you take a hit on speed and loose a module on repairing it. Add on top of that the speed of the repair and it looks depressing at that stage
However, keep in mind you can pretty much one~shot kill shields where as you have to work on the armor stage. Even with weaponry skill and modules, it's still a pretty tough battle on a heavy one~on~one with a Duvolle with the survivor always walking away with a fraction of life.
I don't think shields are the "greatest way to go" imo but we're all frankly allowed to develop however we choose. Having said that, I think the biggest dropsuit that most AR users hate going up against is a logis which is more armor than shield. At least with a heavy you can runaway and a scout with a shotgun at least needs to be right there in your face otherwise you have nothing to fear with enough distance between the two of you although being lazy and getting ambushed because you dropped your guard is another issue. |
Wicked Glory
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
98
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Posted - 2013.02.08 08:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
All I hear is "waah my class is disadvantaged because of its design, so nerf the other points the classes have over me!"
I still love you though, Battle. |
BattleCry1791
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
116
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Posted - 2013.02.08 08:30:00 -
[67] - Quote
lowratehitman wrote:slap26 wrote:There is a reason why everyone and their mother runs a shield tank rather then an armor tank. Its because armor takes so long to regenerate, while my shields pop up right away. And honestly, it is just not on heavies, I enjoy the shield aspect of duck and cover, and relying on my shields to pop like a twerk marathon on my assault and scout. i admit sometimes I get myself in trouble at times by over staying the line of fire trying to get that last HP from the enemy at times, but for the most part...duck and cover.
And that's the point, it's across the entire game, all roles |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
114
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Posted - 2013.02.08 08:30:00 -
[68] - Quote
BattleCry1791 wrote:My biggest gripe here is that I thought Dust was supposed to be different than CoD and BF3 in it's "meta" game.
wat.
I like CoD. This game is fun.
I just wish they'd give us some CoD perks for variety =] |
Oxskull Duncarino
Shadow Company HQ
165
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Posted - 2013.02.08 11:33:00 -
[69] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:Thats one way of doing it... I counter by filling my highs with complex dmg mods... i hardly notice shields any more...
Also think of dust like a savanna. If there are more antelope, lions have trouble catching these bouncy prey, but cheetah suddenly become abundant. In dust if people start running shields, prepare to see laser rifles and flux grenades. Not to mention any new toys not out yet... Aye now, pipe down there Let everybody believe shields are the way to go and the armour folks will be well happy to have a dance in the flux grenade light shows people will but on for them. They might even give back a light show of their own |
WASTED MERC
The Southern Legion
4
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Posted - 2013.02.08 11:38:00 -
[70] - Quote
uhhh, go shields and armour, dik heads |
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Oxskull Duncarino
Shadow Company HQ
165
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Posted - 2013.02.08 11:59:00 -
[71] - Quote
Dagon Cthulhu Clone wrote:*slips on flame proof undies*
Shields are for Pussys who will want to run away at some point haha
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Oxskull Duncarino
Shadow Company HQ
165
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Posted - 2013.02.08 12:06:00 -
[72] - Quote
MrShooter01 wrote:In EVE (oh boy here we go again) fitting shield extenders to your ship will increase the "signature radius" of the ship, basically making it easier for other ships to land a successful hit on it. It also makes the ship easier to detect with probes, and faster to lock onto. Maybe shield extenders in Dust should increase your suit's signature profile so you appear on the map easily and also inflate your hitboxes a little bit This makes so much sense. Plus, once a shield has been dropped, the hit box should reduce and just be the size of the dropsuit. |
Serxis Maximus
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2013.02.08 12:48:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:I run with 2 complex damage and a armour plate on type-ii. Not much speed hit, 269 shield and 190 armour, for 459ehp and 132.1% bonus damage with skills and mods. I often kill target before shield drops, so more shield is not needed.
Many of EvE's armour mods are not in game yet, I think if they are added it would help armour vs shield balance.
Also, we only have caldari assault so far, caldari are the shield specialists. When we have an amarr assault it will probably armour tank well.
Intresting gonna try this. How much SP needed to use complex damage mods though? |
Tyjus Vacca
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
8
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Posted - 2013.02.08 13:18:00 -
[74] - Quote
like the idea where armor more resistant to lasers and energy weapons. |
Lasarte Ioni
Noob Gaming
72
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Posted - 2013.02.08 13:41:00 -
[75] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:That's one way of doing it... I counter by filling my highs with complex dmg mods... i hardly notice shields any more...
Also think of dust like a savanna. If there are more antelope, lions have trouble catching these bouncy prey, but cheetah suddenly become abundant. In dust if people start running shields, prepare to see laser rifles and flux grenades. Not to mention any new toys not out yet...
Yep, wait till the scrambler rifle is out and then complain about armor being OP. Jk, but right now, following that paper-rock-scissors analogy so popular in the forums, it's like ppl complaining that paper is too strong just before scissors being introduced into the game. Anyway, if ppl start to stack complex shield extenders, it's a matter of time until flux nades become popular and then problem solved. |
James-5955
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
151
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Posted - 2013.02.08 16:01:00 -
[76] - Quote
As an assault I've never found it worth while to focus on armor tanking & honestly the only people I expect to armor tank are heavies that have logi support.
I unlocked the A-series and hardly ever bothered to use it, whenever I did I came to the realization that my Type II suit was better. Sure if I tried to fully tank it I could get my EHP slightly above my Type II's, however the bulk of it is slow recovering armor and I'm slower.. So I stuck to my type II until I got B-series.
Sooner or later maybe people will start using flux grenades more often then I *might* consider going armor. As of now however why not stack shields? 445 HP that quickly automatically regens, awesome. |
James-5955
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
151
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Posted - 2013.02.08 16:08:00 -
[77] - Quote
WASTED MERC wrote:uhhh, go shields and armour, dik heads
No ty, only 2 low slots on B-series assault anyway.
1 for armor repair for survivability and that'd only leave room for one armor plate, and if I'm shield tanking I probably won't have much CPU/PG so it'd end up being a lower tier plate.. which would also slow me down...
I'd rather go 1 armor repair & 1 CPU module so I can have a better shield related modules in my high slot or a better gun. |
BMSTUBBY
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
95
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Posted - 2013.02.08 17:34:00 -
[78] - Quote
Flux Grenades, nuff said!
BTW throw a couple of Flux Grenades at a shield tank and then shoot it with your SMG and see how pissed the pilot gets when he sees he has just been pwned with an SMG.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2013.02.08 17:52:00 -
[79] - Quote
Irish Syn wrote:When you start working with a logi armor becomes very important. Shields have a delay before they start recharging, with a good logi your armor will constantly recover. Also there are modules that repair armor, and you can get up to starting at 2 per second and going to 5 per second. Stack two of those and it's 4-10 per second. Now do that with a logi who is healing around 25-44 per second. That results in a minimum of 29 HP recovered per second to a maximum of 55 per second. And actually there is a 3% increase with each level of armor repair and repair rate if they get to level 5, so that actually is a max of around 62 HP per second.
Shields are more of the lone wolf/sneaky HP type, armor is more of the group in your face frontline HP type. If you got a squad that maxed out on the armor repair they would be really tough to take down.
A cheapish Assault type2 with 400HP shld with single good regulator gets it's full HP back in not much more than ten seconds, so 40HP per sec is realistic with basic skills. If the shields don't wholly deplete the time is halved.
Another weakness of armor, which is IMO one of the greatest, in order to have regen you'll have to fit a module and sacrifice HP buffer.
Shields' only great weakness is that damage modifiers go to same hi slots as extenders, preventing the shield HP+DamaMod juggernauts. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2013.02.08 17:54:00 -
[80] - Quote
BattleCry1791 wrote: . . op post . .
+1 A very good post, analyzing what's usable and also why.
I wish shields would have more weaknesses and armor made viable. Me and some others already suggested that shields should be extremely vulnerable to splash damage while armor to have good resist on that. |
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