DUST Search - Shields 514

Rei Shepard wrote:

Quote:

I armor tanked my heavy....run 812 HP in armor and 100 for shields. Totals 912 HP. My Type II suit runs 320 shields and 512 armor...832 total points.

However, I find I do WAY better with the fewer hp suit because of the extra shields over armor (and the shields). You can do more in extended fights and survive longer.

How is 512 armor less then 320 shields ? Also how do you fit an extra 412 armor on an assault suit with 2 low slots, sure you can get up to 412 total armor but not 512. (typo?) besides what use is an assault suit thats rigged for speed gonna do with -20 speed ?

And if eventually everyone runs a Logi with 4 plates, they are gonna be slower speed as a heavy, except easier to kill.

I run my assault II with top shield extenders because its a suit meant to be shield tanked and 120 armor or so, once someone gets trough those shields, you die really fast.

But in relation to EVE, Shield tanking trumps Armor tanking armor tanks are just better at being buffer tanks that are remote repped to take large amounts of punishments, same here actually. Also those big Armor plates on ships make them fat and slow, same here....so it makes sense.

Solo > Shield Tank
Group > Armor Tank


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BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:13:00 - [1] - Quote I remember a time when I was pretty jazzed to play this game because it looked like it was going to present an FPS with more choices for character customization than ever before. Currently, that impression, and any hope of seeing something like that, is beyond dead. Every single guy I know that can pub stomp/kill well all have two things in common. Natural Skill and shields to 11. The Skill part is just them. The Shield part however, is all CCP. In this game, if you want to run assault, the hot trick it to actually choose the Arbiter as your starting fit, than choosing the Enforcer, which is the actual Assault starter fit, just to get the headstart on the shields. Everyone I know that goes for a "tanked" AR build goes straight for Complex Shield extenders and then drop suits to hold more complex shield extenders. There are players that spec for glass cannon, ie damage mods, but against 2 tanked ARs or a Heavy, they usually end up on the losing side. However, one tanked AR vs two lesser tanked ARs or a Heavy can absolutely win. The suit that all my guys are wearing right now is the Type II Assault suit....why? ...MOAR Shields. Right now, I'm using the Type II Heavy suit for the exact same reason...over the Type III....it's Type III, why is it not better than the type II, even running twin Tier III reppers? And it makes sense. Shields regen naturally, armor doesn't. Additional Shields don't slow you down, armor does. You get more Hi slots than low as you progress through the suits. Speaking of which, several players have remarked that the Level 5 Logi suit may be the best in the game....why?.....four complex shield extenders or combo'd with shield regen mods. Now, granted, it costs more SP to get to those shield extenders, but it's not unattainable by any means and you can get to enhanced extenders just by specing right at the outset of your build. My biggest gripe here is that I thought Dust was supposed to be different than CoD and BF3 in it's "meta" game. But in reality, it's very much the same. You have to go for shields. Shields trump everything. Armor tanking isn't even an option for ground troops. I thought that in EvE there were advantages/disadvantages for shield tanking vs armor tanking (I never got too into EvE past PVE missions and mining)....there appears to be ZERO incentive in this game to armor tank, which means that it's just a much more complex CoD/BF3, but at the end of the day, it's the same game in the aspect that there are few options for players to choose if they really want to compete.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.07 09:39:00 - [2] - Quote Irish Syn wrote: When you start working with a logi armor becomes very important. Shields have a delay before they start recharging, with a good logi your armor will constantly recover. Also there are modules that repair armor, and you can get up to 5 per second. Stack two of those and it's 10 per second. Now do that with a logi who is heading around 32 per second. Shields are more of the lone wolf/sneaky HP type, armor is more of the group in your face frontline HP type. I guarantee you it doesn't matter how good you shields are, a squad of armor users will beat out a squad of shield users nearly every time. Look, my main may be a heavy but my alt is a logi, I don't need a lecture on the advantages/disadvantages of the logi suit. Also, your math is wrong.... In order to get to the 4 HP/s reppers, you have to hit level 5 Armor Repair. Each level adds 3% to the amount of HP/s repped. (42) + (.035) = 8.15 HP/s. And according to one thread on here, the 3% increase may be broken right now. Also, I reject your notion that armor tankers can take shield tankers. I reject it based on the fact that That I have yet to see it happen. In relation to heavies.... I armor tanked my heavy....run 812 HP in armor and 100 for shields. Totals 912 HP. My Type II suit runs 320 shields and 512 armor...832 total points. However, I find I do WAY better with the fewer hp suit because of the extra shields over armor (and the shields). You can do more in extended fights and survive longer. Again, shields uber alles.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:42:00 - [3] - Quote ChromeBreaker wrote: With the right gear, and situation, armor reps can be higher than incoming dps its and at this point armor really shines Wow, I so wish I lived in this perfect world you live in. Where grenades and mass drivers don't take out your logi support (because you always have logi support) and where the opposing team hasn't called out your location and the next thing you know you're swarmed by no less than 4 guys from two different directions and you get three of them near dead until they slink around a corner and the fourth guy kills you. How in the WORLD does armor, which self repairs at less than 10HP a second, over come someone with damage mods and is dealing over 30 HP worth of damage per round? nope, not buying it. Armor does not beat shields due to the speed and natural regen factor. On one of my assault alts, I went from the Type III back to the Type II and was amazed at the difference in the results. This game is about shields, period.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.07 10:49:00 - [4] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Quote: I armor tanked my heavy....run 812 HP in armor and 100 for shields. Totals 912 HP. My Type II suit runs 320 shields and 512 armor...832 total points. However, I find I do WAY better with the fewer hp suit because of the extra shields over armor (and the shields). You can do more in extended fights and survive longer. How is 512 armor less then 320 shields ? Also how do you fit an extra 412 armor on an assault suit with 2 low slots, sure you can get up to 412 total armor but not 512. (typo?) besides what use is an assault suit thats rigged for speed gonna do with -20 speed ? And if eventually everyone runs a Logi with 4 plates, they are gonna be slower speed as a heavy, except easier to kill. I run my assault II with top shield extenders because its a suit meant to be shield tanked and 120 armor or so, once someone gets trough those shields, you die really fast. But in relation to EVE, Shield tanking trumps Armor tanking armor tanks are just better at being buffer tanks that are remote repped to take large amounts of punishments, same here actually. Also those big Armor plates on ships make them fat and slow, same here....so it makes sense. Solo > Shield Tank Group > Armor Tank Do you EvE mouse jockies EVER pay attention to the written word? This part here.... Quote: I armor tanked my heavy....run 812 HP in armor and 100 for shields. Totals 912 HP. My Type II suit runs 320 shields and 512 armor...832 total points. That's a Type II HEAVY suit. not assault. And what idiot would tun 4 plates on a Logi proto instead of running armor reppers, a shield mod, and then maybe a plate...and where did I intimate that I thought anyone would? Based on your lacklaster previous two points I can't take your eve .02 ISK into consideration. Thanks for posting there, superchampion.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.07 11:06:00 - [5] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: The speed of running shields is why shields are so good. It's harder to hit a fast target than say a slower one with lots of health. I can pound round after round into an armor heavy because of how easy they are to shoot at, but shield heavies tend to be quicker and harder to hit. Same thing with assaults. Also, complex shield mods aren't really that great when you consider the bonus from shield control. Having an extra 10% is like having a free shield extender (assuming you have more than 200 shield in the first place). Getting to at least 15 or 20% increase in shield is necessary before you even consider putting skill points into shield enhancements. And you raise a good point here...because it's not just the extenders, it's the 25% passive increase and the shield recharge passive increase that goes into it as well. Meanwhile, for armor you'd got Field Engineering armor rep, and plates (which slow you down)....and all of the shield heavy suits somehow manage to move faster in the first place too.....so there are more factors to Shield 514 than just he extenders
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.08 05:53:00 - [6] - Quote Jaiden Longshot wrote: and you wasted everyone's time by posting without reading..... His issue isn't with shields being OP....he simply feels as if armor tanking isn't a valid option at present. And that really was the point of the thread. That this game is rather generic, but complexly so. It's really not different from CoD or BF3 because everyone's running the same gear/spec/fit for the most part. The only differences you may find are that some players are Shield Tanked and some are Armored Cannons (as opposed to Glass cannons). But most are shield spec'd. I know Babar offers a good argument about hitting people with Damage mods in supporting the case for Armor Cannoning, but it doesn't really apply to real life because of two things...hit detection and lag. Which will likely only get worse as this game progresses (It's happened in every other FPS game, and there's already evidence here to support my theory). The true test of this theory would be to set up a low ISK corp battle with an agreement between both parties that one side would be Shield tanked and the other Armor Cannons. No Vehicles would be used and the match would be open to ARs, SMGs, pistols, and HMGs only, no mass drivers, lasers, etc. I do not volunteer my clan for this as I am not in the leadership, I'm just saying, it should totally happen sometime soon to settle the debate. Back to the point though...in a game with all these skills and specs and all this "meta' stuff....there really aren't that many options. It's just a very complex way of being another generic shooter. Don't believe me? How many AR guys out there that have reached the Type A suit are using it over the Type II? Because that answer would be most telling.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.08 07:24:00 - [7] - Quote lowratehitman wrote: I will stick with my so called weak shield tanking. If i wanted to walk as slow as a member of the walking dead, i will slap some armor on. Everything i am hearing is 1 vs 1. why not talk about the benifits of running self sufficent shield tank squads that need no logi member. I think the majority of the Heavies that have weighed in on this thread are just plain wrong in their assessment of armor/shields/logi, etc. You are not one of them. I find myself running with the Type II Heavy suit over the Type III in all instances now. It's faster, the shields regen way faster than my armor reps on the Type III....and that's even when I'm running dual type III reppers. The armor tanked heavy....all it really does is guarantee a win in a one on one vs another heavy (or anyone else). But for taking on multiple guys in a short span of time....the Type II is just better suited, and that's with no extenders or anything...I still run damage modifiers and an armor repper with some points in passive shield regen.
BattleCry1791 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 116	Posted - 2013.02.08 08:30:00 - [8] - Quote lowratehitman wrote: slap26 wrote: There is a reason why everyone and their mother runs a shield tank rather then an armor tank. Its because armor takes so long to regenerate, while my shields pop up right away. And honestly, it is just not on heavies, I enjoy the shield aspect of duck and cover, and relying on my shields to pop like a twerk marathon on my assault and scout. i admit sometimes I get myself in trouble at times by over staying the line of fire trying to get that last HP from the enemy at times, but for the most part...duck and cover. And that's the point, it's across the entire game, all roles