DUST Search - Shoulder those Mass Drivers Noobs!! Friendly Fire coming soon!

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Ydubbs81 RND wrote:

Baal Omniscient wrote:

Ydubbs81 RND wrote:

Needless Sacermendor wrote:

Deducting wp isnt the way to do it ... just directly deduct 10sp per 1 hp of team damage inflicted !

When you get down to zero available points you start losing levels of random skills.

Trolls don't give a **** about points. Just omit friendly fire entirely...PERIOD

Kind of suprised you feel that way Ydubbs, I kind of figured you'd be one of the one's fighting to implement TKing. No disrespect, just sayin'. I could go either way as long as it comes with consequences that make it very detrimental to you to TK. VTK after a certain number of TK's is good if they are immediately dropped from the match and loose all gains but keep all losses from the match.

Say 3 TK's and your team can kick you, you loose all SP, ISK, WP & Kill stats you got that match, and loose all the gear you died in, keep the deaths you took, take an additional death when you are kicked, and the number of times you were kicked for TKing goes on your permanent character sheet record. I do believe that would cut down on griefers significantly.

I, honestly can't fathom why someone would want to support friendly fire. There's no reason to do it. For what?...to kill redline snipers? To kill a bluedot who is horrible?? Blues will be blues, I've long stopped worrying about them. You have to rely on yourself or your squadmates..period

Forget penalizing the trolls by removing wps or perentage of this or that. I DON'T want to lose ONE suit because some troll feels like killing me. Or, because I'm wearing a proto suit and they'll think that it'll be funny.

Or, maybe they'll TK you because they feel that you're stealing all of their kills....you guys must see these things happening

I definitely see it happening, but with this kind of community and the backstabbing nature of Eve, I srsly doubt we'll be able to hold it off for long. If it's a loosing fight, I'd rather levy a tax on it early than try to stave it off until the last breath.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that FF in pub matches is a disastrous idea, but I just don't see any chance of winning that fight.

In Dust terms, I look at it like I'm redlined in the last 3 minutes of a match. I may not win, but I'm gonna hurt you as much as I possibly f*ck*ng can in the process of losing. Fighting FF is like fighting to win in this scenario, almost impossible. But there are plenty of targets to hit if I'm just trying to do as much damage as I can. And hitting those targets basically equates to levying fines for TKing.

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.31 14:35:00 - [61] - Quote I hope its not in regular highsec pub matches.
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative 47	Posted - 2013.01.31 14:41:00 - [62] - Quote I'm just a bit worried because, as a DS pilot, everybody requests me picking them up by shooting at me. What if they take out a door gunner?
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 283	Posted - 2013.01.31 14:42:00 - [63] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I hope its not in regular highsec pub matches. In pub matches with randoms this could break the game. New players don't like coming in and having their face shot by blues. It tends to make them say stuff like "** this **" and leave. Hopefully it will be done right.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2013.01.31 14:58:00 - [64] - Quote WoT doesn't seem to have auto FF adjudication perfected based on the comments in that thread. There are just so many ways a blue dot can grief you with it, intentionally or not.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.31 15:18:00 - [65] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Deducting wp isnt the way to do it ... just directly deduct 10sp per 1 hp of team damage inflicted ! When you get down to zero available points you start losing levels of random skills. Trolls don't give a **** about points. Just omit friendly fire entirely...PERIOD Kind of suprised you feel that way Ydubbs, I kind of figured you'd be one of the one's fighting to implement TKing. No disrespect, just sayin'. I could go either way as long as it comes with consequences that make it very detrimental to you to TK. VTK after a certain number of TK's is good if they are immediately dropped from the match and loose all gains but keep all losses from the match. Say 3 TK's and your team can kick you, you loose all SP, ISK, WP & Kill stats you got that match, and loose all the gear you died in, keep the deaths you took, take an additional death when you are kicked, and the number of times you were kicked for TKing goes on your permanent character sheet record. I do believe that would cut down on griefers significantly. I, honestly can't fathom why someone would want to support friendly fire. There's no reason to do it. For what?...to kill redline snipers? To kill a bluedot who is horrible?? Blues will be blues, I've long stopped worrying about them. You have to rely on yourself or your squadmates..period Forget penalizing the trolls by removing wps or perentage of this or that. I DON'T want to lose ONE suit because some troll feels like killing me. Or, because I'm wearing a proto suit and they'll think that it'll be funny. Or, maybe they'll TK you because they feel that you're stealing all of their kills....you guys must see these things happening Because being able to shoot into a crowd of Red and Blue and not having to wary about whether I hit a comrade completely breaks the immersion for me. Guns are dangerous. Your skill with a gun should be as much about your ability to not hit your friends as it is about hitting your enemies. But you can't shoot through a blue dot to kill a red dot. So, essentially you are being penalized. As noble as your intentions are, people WILL, undoubtedly, exploit it and totally ruin the game. Is making sure that you aim properly worth losing all of that ISK in matches?? If you want to make sure, skill is what gets the kill.....then don't wait for CCP to enforce it. Take initiative...make sure that you don't shoot any blues to kill a red dot. Because if you shoot a blue now, they take the bullets and you are not hitting your enemy anyway.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.31 15:22:00 - [66] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Needless Sacermendor wrote: Deducting wp isnt the way to do it ... just directly deduct 10sp per 1 hp of team damage inflicted ! When you get down to zero available points you start losing levels of random skills. Trolls don't give a **** about points. Just omit friendly fire entirely...PERIOD Kind of suprised you feel that way Ydubbs, I kind of figured you'd be one of the one's fighting to implement TKing. No disrespect, just sayin'. I could go either way as long as it comes with consequences that make it very detrimental to you to TK. VTK after a certain number of TK's is good if they are immediately dropped from the match and loose all gains but keep all losses from the match. Say 3 TK's and your team can kick you, you loose all SP, ISK, WP & Kill stats you got that match, and loose all the gear you died in, keep the deaths you took, take an additional death when you are kicked, and the number of times you were kicked for TKing goes on your permanent character sheet record. I do believe that would cut down on griefers significantly. I, honestly can't fathom why someone would want to support friendly fire. There's no reason to do it. For what?...to kill redline snipers? To kill a bluedot who is horrible?? Blues will be blues, I've long stopped worrying about them. You have to rely on yourself or your squadmates..period Forget penalizing the trolls by removing wps or perentage of this or that. I DON'T want to lose ONE suit because some troll feels like killing me. Or, because I'm wearing a proto suit and they'll think that it'll be funny. Or, maybe they'll TK you because they feel that you're stealing all of their kills....you guys must see these things happening I definitely see it happening, but with this kind of community and the backstabbing nature of Eve, I srsly doubt we'll be able to hold it off for long. If it's a loosing fight, I'd rather levy a tax on it early than try to stave it off until the last breath. I agree with you wholeheartedly that FF in pub matches is a disastrous idea, but I just don't see any chance of winning that fight. In Dust terms, I look at it like I'm redlined in the last 3 minutes of a match. I may not win, but I'm gonna hurt you as much as I possibly fckng can in the process of losing. Fighting FF is like fighting to win in this scenario, almost impossible. But there are plenty of targets to hit if I'm just trying to do as much damage as I can. And hitting those targets basically equates to levying fines for TKing. Yes, we can stop it......if the community rises up and demands that this absurd idea does not make it to see the light, then CCP will listen. In the same way, we've gotten rid of the daily cap, we can prevent this stupid notion of friendly fire in this particular game. Eve is separate from Dust and CCP wants to give Dust its own identity instead of making it into EVE on the fps side. So, just because there is backstabbing and teamkilling in EVE, it doesn't mean the same has to be for Dust. Look at the skill point system in Eve. It is only passive....as opposed to dust where it is both active and passive.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 183	Posted - 2013.01.31 15:25:00 - [67] - Quote I'm thinking this could mostly be a reference to orbital bombardment. It has been announced that those will have friendly fire effects. They will be able to be more precise though to compensate.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.31 15:29:00 - [68] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I'm thinking this could mostly be a reference to orbital bombardment. It has been announced that those will have friendly fire effects. They will be able to be more precise though to compensate. I don't mind friendly fire on orbitals but not regular combat
BigussDikkuss Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 42	Posted - 2013.01.31 15:32:00 - [69] - Quote YAY! I can't wait to start wasting my own team! BWA-HA-HA! Seriously. I'm stocking up on mass drivers now in anticipation.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.01.31 15:48:00 - [70] - Quote Halador Osiris wrote: I'm just a bit worried because, as a DS pilot, everybody requests me picking them up by shooting at me. What if they take out a door gunner? Or purposely kill the door gunner so they can take up the position. But that would never happen.

Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2013.01.31 15:57:00 - [71] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: Halador Osiris wrote: I'm just a bit worried because, as a DS pilot, everybody requests me picking them up by shooting at me. What if they take out a door gunner? Or purposely kill the door gunner so they can take up the position. But that would never happen. nah, never
Mikra-Embod Chadslar BetaMax. 4	Posted - 2013.01.31 15:58:00 - [72] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Watch out blueberries. I may start stabbing you if I catch you doing something amazingly stupid. I was Just thinking "Watch out Blubes. I may start stabbing you if I catch you doing something amazingly stupid." Awesome.
Icy TIG3R Universal Allies Inc. 0	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:06:00 - [73] - Quote By the way, keep in mind each teamkill is -50 WP atm if you crash your dropship. Also, a -75 also pops up sometimes if I crash someone elses dropship.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:11:00 - [74] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I, honestly can't fathom why someone would want to support friendly fire. There's no reason to do it. For what?...to kill redline snipers? To kill a bluedot who is horrible?? Blues will be blues, I've long stopped worrying about them. You have to rely on yourself or your squadmates..period FF discourages spray and pray, and shooting everything that moves. It's the way FPSs are supposed to be played. All of the doom scenarios above won't happen. TK is very rare in FPSs which have FF.
steadyhand amarr Imperfects Negative-Feedback 338	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:11:00 - [75] - Quote Just shove tkers into matchs with other tm people and then ban them from merc contracts use a tally point system that diminishes over time so the odd mistake can be forgiven but scrubs and griffers and purged from the popules
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:13:00 - [76] - Quote Awesome now i have to check for morons with AV weapons on my team and not just the enemy team. And im never going to call in a tank again if a random player is standing next to me. I will get a 500m distance between randoms and then call in a vehicle.
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 235	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:14:00 - [77] - Quote full friendly fire, only way to go.
Reiki Jubo Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 63	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:15:00 - [78] - Quote but they won't. because the only thing thats absurd is what ur asking for. this isnt COD. you should be embarrassed to be QQing about friendly fire in a game that has finite loadouts. its a natural progression. lack of FF hurts gameplay more than having it on. grenade force fields that protect teammates so they can rush in, immunity to orbitals, and tank fire? dont even get me started on the mass drivers. ur showing you've never played a tactical game when you ask for lack of FF. this is the most consequential, persistent, deep shooter ever and you want FF off? you. have. got. to. be . kidding. CCP will deal will TKers. They think about issues like this beforehand.
Chinduko KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:21:00 - [79] - Quote In random pub matches this will be a problem. You simply can't trust random friendlies not to purposely team kill potentially costing players a lot of ISK. In corporation battles, this won't be a big issue.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 191	Posted - 2013.01.31 16:39:00 - [80] - Quote Even if im a mass driver user i want to see Friendly Fire ON.

Kovak Therim ZionTCD Legacy Rising 158	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:01:00 - [81] - Quote Please don't put this in pub matches, CCP, I beg of you. This game has so many problems atm, let's not add more.
Kushmir Nadian Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 78	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:40:00 - [82] - Quote FF on. Only way to go.
Ghost-33 ShootBreakStab 108	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:49:00 - [83] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Friendly fire will be another top 5 bonehead additions to this game. I will NEVER attempt to hack an objective again. I can already see people shooting you in the back if you don't have any deaths or if you're wearing a proto suit just for trolling. In other games, it's ok if you die by friendly fire or trolls but in this game...you will lose your $200K suit. NOT COOL, CCP. It's New Eden, soon you will learn who those players are and just drop them before you hack or do anything important. Every one thinks that the "bad guy" will run the town around here. Think of FF as gun control, you have no FF and if some "criminal" figures out a way to greif "LAV smashing?" then the law following folks cant do anything about it. But if you hand everyone a gun, sure you may have the occasional nut that starts trying to shoot everything in sight but at least all the good guys can now just drop that nut faster than he can put a new mag in the weapon. FF on, no penalty's. I have faith that most of humanity won't let griefers run the show around here. Hell even if they do.... Hire a Merc to grief the living daylights out of the guy harassing you.
SoTa PoP Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1772	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:51:00 - [84] - Quote Friendly Fire is going to add to the Meta to this game. It'll allow a lot more then griefing. I can finally duel my blue berry allies to show them to HTFU or STFU on comms ;)
Vel'sar Altruin Doomheim 0	Posted - 2013.01.31 18:10:00 - [85] - Quote I'm not all that excited about FF. So many people run in front of me while shooting, giving me no chance to let off the trigger before i've hit them, because I am zoomed in with my AR and they were right near me. I don't enjoy the penalties that may come with it. If there are no penalties, things will go the way of LFR in WoW very quickly.
Zahle Undt Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 19	Posted - 2013.01.31 18:12:00 - [86] - Quote One problem with penalties for TK is that while that may deter griefers ( I doubt it) no one yet (I only got through first 3 pages of this thread) has seemed to think of the accidental killing people will do through no fault of their own. For example, if I'm firing mass driver rounds into a mass of red dots around their CRU and some shotgunning scout wants to get in their and get his kills how is it my fault when he gets his fool self blown up? Or if I toss a grenade around a corner and some blueberry charges around the corner behind me not heeding the fact I tossed a grenade, why should I be penalized for their stupidity. Thus I hope they limit friendly fire to corp matches and possibly merc contracts where one has control over who they are playing with and there is communication. Otherwise hold off friendly fire until we have PvE to grind ISK and SP from and can thus avoid pub matches
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2013.01.31 20:56:00 - [87] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: One problem with penalties for TK is that while that may deter griefers ( I doubt it) no one yet (I only got through first 3 pages of this thread) has seemed to think of the accidental killing people will do through no fault of their own. For example, if I'm firing mass driver rounds into a mass of red dots around their CRU and some shotgunning scout wants to get in their and get his kills how is it my fault when he gets his fool self blown up? Or if I toss a grenade around a corner and some blueberry charges around the corner behind me not heeding the fact I tossed a grenade, why should I be penalized for their stupidity. Thus I hope they limit friendly fire to corp matches and possibly merc contracts where one has control over who they are playing with and there is communication. Otherwise hold off friendly fire until we have PvE to grind ISK and SP from and can thus avoid pub matches It is always your fault, because you're the one who pulled the trigger. If an ally is being an idiot, or even if he is simply unaware that there's someone with a mass driver nearby, it doesn't mean you should have free license to murder him. That said, one or two stray shots on an ally near to an enemy should e penalized less than if you were to fire the same shots at the same person when he was standing in a safe area. The FF system, if they make it apply to public matches, needs to be intelligent enough to heighten or reduce penalties relative to the apparent intent of the person. Accidentally hitting an ally when you meant to hit an enemy shouldn't be hugely punished, as accidents happen, but shooting an ally out of the blue when no enemies are near should be.
Cygnus Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 50	Posted - 2013.01.31 21:12:00 - [88] - Quote If you allow friendly fire in random instant battles and don't have a feature to block people from matchmaking who teamkill this game is going to get really old really fast. SoTa PoP wrote: Friendly Fire is going to add to the Meta to this game. It'll allow a lot more then griefing. I can finally duel my blue berry allies to show them to HTFU or STFU on comms ;) Dust is not EvE. In EvE teamkilling gets expensive. Lets say you have 5 HACs in your fleet and then a teamkiller joins you. That's fine... think he can take you all? Hell no. Particularly not in his militia gear / Ibis. If he has a command ship he might take one of you down... but not all... and it'll be expensive. In DUST, I could wipe out my entire team in a random battle before anyone could do anything about it. It's not the same thing at all. Friendly fire is fine in a public match if two features are present: The ability to boot someone on your team who kills you from the match, AND the ability to block them from joining you in future public matches. If CCP doesn't do both of those things, I will personally guarantee you I will teamkill the hell out of this game until they change their minds. ...because if I can't have fun I'll see to it no one can There will be no HTFU. There will be only me destroying spawn points and when they are all gone camping my own MCV. You'll be dead before you hit the ground.
Imp Smash On The Brink 51	Posted - 2013.02.01 01:47:00 - [89] - Quote Needless Sacermendor wrote: Deducting wp isnt the way to do it ... just directly deduct 10sp per 1 hp of team damage inflicted ! When you get down to zero available points you start losing levels of random skills. The image of that is so funny it makes me giggle.
The legend345 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 73	Posted - 2013.02.01 02:08:00 - [90] - Quote Sake Monster wrote: Per CCP_Praetorian on Twitter https://twitter.com/CCP_Praetorian Personally, I can't wait for this. I cant think of one positive thing about it. Who gives a **** about mass drivers not damaging others seriously. Its a game and it'd be dumb af if you have to be punished my others mistakes/stupidity.



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