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Kaserai Mandrag DUST University Ivy League 57	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:13:00 - [1] - Quote In light of recent events, I would like to highlight the form of thinking which the SMALL group who actually supports nerfing the HMG have been using. A simple HMG player kills an enforcer who has just charged them. The enforcer, being relatively new, did not realize that trying to out live someone with twice their armor in a firefight (in the optimal 10-20 meter range of the HMG) was completely futile. Since this player has become so used to point and click games - such as COD - he does not understand why his rushing tactic still fails to work. Frustrated and convinced that the heavy is OBVIOUSLY OP because HIS tactic DIDN'T work, he comes to the forums to cry nerf bat. Ironically, this logic should give the heavy a reason to nerf all Shotgun Scouts. Why? Well personally im SO tired of getting 1 hit by an intelligent player who knows how to get behind me. I HATE that THUNK THUNK sound - It means im basically dead in two seconds. (Stay cool Shotgun Scouts, im not ranting on you - im using the enemies circular reasoning against them.) Oh, but since the Shotgun Scout is obviously OP because it can kill a heavy, that must mean the AR Enforcer is WAY OP. Ive seen those guys EAT Shotgun Scouts for breakfast. Finally, we can probably say that the Sniper is EXTREMELY OP. Considering that they pick off Enforcers, Shotgun Scouts, and Heavies at a fairly constant rate. In short, it is simple to understand the rage of whiners. All you must do is come down to their level - and after you realize how completely stupid it sounds, you can back to the land of the living. Happy hunting all!
KryptixX Imperfects Negative-Feedback 321	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:17:00 - [2] - Quote TL;DR Shotguns are OP.
Kaserai Mandrag DUST University Ivy League 57	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:19:00 - [3] - Quote KryptixX wrote: TL;DR Shotguns are OP. Lol try again
DRAlgernop Krieger Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:25:00 - [4] - Quote KryptixX wrote: TL;DR Shotguns are OP. Not at all what he said. I Reading comprehension. Do you have it? What he said was,;there's a checks and balances thing going on, the HMG is overpowered in certain situations. Just as the shotgun is Overpowered in other situations and the sniper is in it's own circumstances. In other words: Nothing is over powered, it has an optimal range and usage. There's no point in whining about it....And, I agree with them 100%. BF3 did the same thing....so many people complaining....So, they changed a lot of the weapons, nerfed a lot of their guns. Why? Because people complained so much...the people who didn't have a problem with the stuff...which I'd love to believe was the majority... obviously weren't on the forums, there was never a voice for the otherside. Just the unwashed masses of whiny, entitled, teenagers who would rather complain for hours on a forum then to spend five minutes thinking of how to overcome the problem.... So, I took away something from that....it's too easy for a vocal minority's pleas to drown out the happy majority's fun. TL;DR If you can't read a paragraph without a summary, I hate you. I hate everything about you. -You- Are the problem.
Omnipotent lilmamaj Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 205	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:25:00 - [5] - Quote I got it this time TL;DR Kaserai Mandrag is either really bad at fps' or not an fps player and he expresses his anger at sensible logic by not using logic when he says he uses logic
Omnipotent lilmamaj Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 205	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:26:00 - [6] - Quote DRAlgernop Krieger wrote: KryptixX wrote: TL;DR Shotguns are OP. Not at all what he said. I Reading comprehension. Do you have it? What he said was,;there's a checks and balances thing going on, the HMG is overpowered in certain situations. Just as the shotgun is Overpowered in other situations and the sniper is in it's own circumstances. In other words: Nothing is over powered, it has an optimal range and usage. There's no point in whining about it....And, I agree with them 100%. BF3 did the same thing....so many people complaining....So, they changed a lot of the weapons, nerfed a lot of their guns. Why? Because people complained so much...the people who didn't have a problem with the stuff...which I'd love to believe was the majority... obviously weren't on the forums, there was never a voice for the otherside. Just the unwashed masses of whiny, entitled, teenagers who would rather complain for hours on a forum then to spend five minutes thinking of how to overcome the problem.... So, I took away something from that....it's too easy for a vocal minority's pleas to drown out the happy majority's fun. TL;DR If you can't read a paragraph without a summary, I hate you. I hate everything about you. -You- Are the problem. The HMG's optimal range and usage is everywhere at all ranges always.
DRAlgernop Krieger Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:29:00 - [7] - Quote Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: DRAlgernop Krieger wrote: KryptixX wrote: TL;DR Shotguns are OP. Not at all what he said. I Reading comprehension. Do you have it? What he said was,;there's a checks and balances thing going on, the HMG is overpowered in certain situations. Just as the shotgun is Overpowered in other situations and the sniper is in it's own circumstances. In other words: Nothing is over powered, it has an optimal range and usage. There's no point in whining about it....And, I agree with them 100%. BF3 did the same thing....so many people complaining....So, they changed a lot of the weapons, nerfed a lot of their guns. Why? Because people complained so much...the people who didn't have a problem with the stuff...which I'd love to believe was the majority... obviously weren't on the forums, there was never a voice for the otherside. Just the unwashed masses of whiny, entitled, teenagers who would rather complain for hours on a forum then to spend five minutes thinking of how to overcome the problem.... So, I took away something from that....it's too easy for a vocal minority's pleas to drown out the happy majority's fun. TL;DR If you can't read a paragraph without a summary, I hate you. I hate everything about you. -You- Are the problem. The HMG's optimal range and usage is everywhere at all ranges always. You want some cheese with that whine? Seriously...How come everyone else manages to deal with it? I take out heavies by my lonesome with militia gear...Want to know a secret? If you pretend it's not CoD or Halo....And you don't run around like a greased up deaf guy....You use a bit of cover and cook a grenade....They're quite easy to take down. Just don't get caught in the open.... What is it that EVE players are fond of saying?? Adapt or Die. I like that...separates the men from the boys... The men adapt while the boys...they b*tch on a forum.
Victor 'LifeLine' Ramous SyNergy Gaming 242	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:34:00 - [8] - Quote Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: DRAlgernop Krieger wrote: KryptixX wrote: TL;DR Shotguns are OP. Not at all what he said. I Reading comprehension. Do you have it? What he said was,;there's a checks and balances thing going on, the HMG is overpowered in certain situations. Just as the shotgun is Overpowered in other situations and the sniper is in it's own circumstances. In other words: Nothing is over powered, it has an optimal range and usage. There's no point in whining about it....And, I agree with them 100%. BF3 did the same thing....so many people complaining....So, they changed a lot of the weapons, nerfed a lot of their guns. Why? Because people complained so much...the people who didn't have a problem with the stuff...which I'd love to believe was the majority... obviously weren't on the forums, there was never a voice for the otherside. Just the unwashed masses of whiny, entitled, teenagers who would rather complain for hours on a forum then to spend five minutes thinking of how to overcome the problem.... So, I took away something from that....it's too easy for a vocal minority's pleas to drown out the happy majority's fun. TL;DR If you can't read a paragraph without a summary, I hate you. I hate everything about you. -You- Are the problem. The HMG's optimal range and usage is everywhere at all ranges always. They have the slowest turning speed in the game, and in a lot of situations are an easy kill. If a heavy plays properly then yeah, he is deadly. But thats the whole point of role warfare in this game, you arent supposed to be able to 1v1 in every sitatuation. HTFU
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 235	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:39:00 - [9] - Quote +1 its the player base that is making the heavy op not the heavy itself. Stop balancing the game for pug players.
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:39:00 - [10] - Quote The HMG needs something to happen to it; it just does. I have one corp-mate who is absolutely destroying everyone using it (have a screencap of him going 30/0 using mostly militia stuff, obviously not the HMG, and his KDR is something like an 18. His main is a Logi, and he isn't killing things at all like he does with the HMG), and a few others with little Dust experience who do a ton better with the HMG than they do with any other gun. What do I think needs to happen to the HMG? Give it the range of an SMG, maybe a little more. That's it; no damage nerf, no RoF nerf, no overheating nerf. Just cut the range. Make it absolutely deadly up close, and only up close. Make people fear getting close to a Heavy, or meeting one around a corner. We shouldn't have to dive for cover when they're 40-60m away like we do now. EDIT: I have killed more than my fair share of Heavies, not just militia but also those who really know how to spec into the role. I don't just stand there like an idiot when I see one, I get to cover or do my best to keep moving if I can't. But I don't know how many times I've been killed by an HMG at a good range as I sprint to cover, from full health.

Omnipotent lilmamaj Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 205	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:43:00 - [11] - Quote @ Phoenix this is quite obvious but the scrubs above us think its perfectly fine
DRAlgernop Krieger Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2013.01.27 15:47:00 - [12] - Quote Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: @ Phoenix this is quite obvious but the scrubs above us think its perfectly fine The scrubs above you want to keep the weapon as-is, and the all-powerful vets want to nerf it, so their time playing is easier and more akin to their previous CoD experience. Your logic sucks.
Illuminaughty-696 Omega Risk Control Services 203	Posted - 2013.01.27 16:22:00 - [13] - Quote Give things time. Too many new players running around in paper-thin militia crap right now. The HMG was fine last build, it just feels OP now because we all had to start from scratch and a lot of peeps can't survive that initial OMG it's a heavy, crap I'm dead moments that all militia gear with little to no skills in shield boosters and such will be experiencing in the short term. Leave it alone, give people time to actually train into fits and then evaluate. Also, tactics, cover, blah, blah, blahdity blah, etc.
Lasarte Ioni Noob Gaming 72	Posted - 2013.01.27 16:47:00 - [14] - Quote Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: The HMG needs something to happen to it; it just does. I have one corp-mate who is absolutely destroying everyone using it (have a screencap of him going 30/0 using mostly militia stuff, obviously not the HMG Sure, i use type I assault suit with a GEK 38 (every other module is a militia BPO) and my normal scores are 25/5 going SOLO, BECAUSE the player-base sucks, since I've never gotten more than a 2,5 KDR in any FPS and usually playing w friends. I flank, point and click 90% of the players, and most heavies aren't an exception; get some cover, make sure u expose less than 1/4 of your body and if headshoting you don't even need a full magazine to drop em (ofc there are exceptions, but I'm sure there are lots of ppl way better than me) So the problem isn't the heavy that can't even chase you if you disengage, it's YOU not disengaging.
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.01.27 16:50:00 - [15] - Quote Lasarte Ioni wrote: Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: The HMG needs something to happen to it; it just does. I have one corp-mate who is absolutely destroying everyone using it (have a screencap of him going 30/0 using mostly militia stuff, obviously not the HMG Sure, i use type I assault suit with a GEK 38 (every other module is a militia BPO) and my normal scores are 25/5 going SOLO, BECAUSE the player-base sucks, since I've never gotten more than a 2,5 KDR in any FPS and usually playing w friends. I flank, point and click 90% of the players, and most heavies aren't an exception; get some cover, make sure u expose less than 1/4 of your body and if headshoting you don't even need a full magazine to drop em (ofc there are exceptions, but I'm sure there are lots of ppl way better than me) So the problem isn't the heavy that can't even chase you if you disengage, it's YOU not disengaging. lol...you picked and chose what you quote and use. Keep reading, and you'll see that the person I mentioned uses a LOGI as his main, and can't do nearly as well, kill-wise, as he does with the HMG. Same person, two different loadouts, two different guns...two completely different results. So, actually read what is written, then respond. EDIT: Also, read on to what I said about how I react to Heavies...
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.01.27 16:53:00 - [16] - Quote DRAlgernop Krieger wrote: Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: @ Phoenix this is quite obvious but the scrubs above us think its perfectly fine The scrubs above you want to keep the weapon as-is, and the all-powerful vets want to nerf it, so their time playing is easier and more akin to their previous CoD experience. Your logic sucks. CoD? What the heck is that? Oh...you mean the crappy "everybody wins" game that isn't worth $5 yet people pay $60 every year? There is such a thing as balance, and the HMG does not fit into the balance right now. It is too easy. If anything...the current HMG is more akin to the CoD experience than any other gun...
Cosorvin DUST University Ivy League 45	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:00:00 - [17] - Quote Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: I got it this time TL;DR Kaserai Mandrag is either really bad at fps' or not an fps player and he expresses his anger at sensible logic by not using logic when he says he uses logic I disagree, ive seen many of his post and they are HORRENDOUSLY hard to beat.
Cosorvin DUST University Ivy League 45	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:02:00 - [18] - Quote DRAlgernop Krieger wrote: Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: DRAlgernop Krieger wrote: KryptixX wrote: TL;DR Shotguns are OP. Not at all what he said. I Reading comprehension. Do you have it? What he said was,;there's a checks and balances thing going on, the HMG is overpowered in certain situations. Just as the shotgun is Overpowered in other situations and the sniper is in it's own circumstances. In other words: Nothing is over powered, it has an optimal range and usage. There's no point in whining about it....And, I agree with them 100%. BF3 did the same thing....so many people complaining....So, they changed a lot of the weapons, nerfed a lot of their guns. Why? Because people complained so much...the people who didn't have a problem with the stuff...which I'd love to believe was the majority... obviously weren't on the forums, there was never a voice for the otherside. Just the unwashed masses of whiny, entitled, teenagers who would rather complain for hours on a forum then to spend five minutes thinking of how to overcome the problem.... So, I took away something from that....it's too easy for a vocal minority's pleas to drown out the happy majority's fun. TL;DR If you can't read a paragraph without a summary, I hate you. I hate everything about you. -You- Are the problem. The HMG's optimal range and usage is everywhere at all ranges always. You want some cheese with that whine? Seriously...How come everyone else manages to deal with it? I take out heavies by my lonesome with militia gear...Want to know a secret? If you pretend it's not CoD or Halo....And you don't run around like a greased up deaf guy....You use a bit of cover and cook a grenade....They're quite easy to take down. Just don't get caught in the open.... What is it that EVE players are fond of saying?? Adapt or Die. I like that...separates the men from the boys... The men adapt while the boys...they b*tch on a forum. ^pure wisdom
addsta01 The Southern Legion 12	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:04:00 - [19] - Quote Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: The HMG needs something to happen to it; it just does. I have one corp-mate who is absolutely destroying everyone using it (have a screencap of him going 30/0 using mostly militia stuff, obviously not the HMG, and his KDR is something like an 18. His main is a Logi, and he isn't killing things at all like he does with the HMG), and a few others with little Dust experience who do a ton better with the HMG than they do with any other gun. What do I think needs to happen to the HMG? Give it the range of an SMG, maybe a little more. That's it; no damage nerf, no RoF nerf, no overheating nerf. Just cut the range. Make it absolutely deadly up close, and only up close. Make people fear getting close to a Heavy, or meeting one around a corner. We shouldn't have to dive for cover when they're 40-60m away like we do now. EDIT: I have killed more than my fair share of Heavies, not just militia but also those who really know how to spec into the role. I don't just stand there like an idiot when I see one, I get to cover or do my best to keep moving if I can't. But I don't know how many times I've been killed by an HMG at a good range as I sprint to cover, from full health. What do you expest from a gattling gun firing 2000 rounds a min... Heavy Weapons for Heavy ArmorGÇª LetGÇÖs start with the Minmatar MH82-BCR Personal Autocannon. This is a heavy weapon and, as such, restricted to the heavy dropsuit. As well as being simply devastating in its own right, this weapon really opened up the heavy dropsuit class once we added it to the game. For some time, the heavy dropsuit wasnGÇÖt very popular with our internal dev team. It may have had a ton of hitpoints and access to the deadly Forge gun, but it was slow and easy to outmaneuver. This saw it primarily being used in specialist anti-vehicle roles (where it excelled) but not much else. This came abruptly to an end when the autocannon made it in to the game. Suddenly you didnGÇÖt have to fight the other dropsuit classes on their own terms with weapons ill-suited to the heavyGÇÖs slower movement. Now you could outlast any other class in a head-on firefight (though smart players can still outmaneuver the slower heavies), you had more armor and a lot more firepower; enough to destroy light vehicles as well as infantry. The introduction of this weapon unlocked the full potential of the dropsuit and gave us one of the gameGÇÖs most satisfying weapons to fire. The camera shake, visual effects and rate of fire make this weapon incredibly visceral. You feel unstoppable, like you could take on just about anything, and sometimes GÇö for just a few bright moments GÇö you can. For some time, the heavy dropsuit wasnGÇÖt very popular with our internal dev team. It may have had a ton of hitpoints and access to the deadly Forge gun, but it was slow and easy to outmaneuver. This saw it primarily being used in specialist anti-vehicle roles (where it excelled) but not much else. This came abruptly to an end when the autocannon made it in to the game. Suddenly you didnGÇÖt have to fight the other dropsuit classes on their own terms with weapons ill-suited to the heavyGÇÖs slower movement. Now you could outlast any other class in a head-on firefight ....enough said.
DRAlgernop Krieger Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 24	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:08:00 - [20] - Quote Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: DRAlgernop Krieger wrote: Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: @ Phoenix this is quite obvious but the scrubs above us think its perfectly fine The scrubs above you want to keep the weapon as-is, and the all-powerful vets want to nerf it, so their time playing is easier and more akin to their previous CoD experience. Your logic sucks. CoD? What the heck is that? Oh...you mean the crappy "everybody wins" game that isn't worth $5 yet people pay $60 every year? There is such a thing as balance, and the HMG does not fit into the balance right now. It is too easy. If anything...the current HMG is more akin to the CoD experience than any other gun... Everything in the game -shouldn't- be balanced, if everything is perfectly balanced then we just might as well roll dice and see who happens to roll the higher number... I suppose a lone AR gunner should be able to take down an HAV, right? You know...for the sake of balance...

theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:09:00 - [21] - Quote Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: DRAlgernop Krieger wrote: Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: @ Phoenix this is quite obvious but the scrubs above us think its perfectly fine The scrubs above you want to keep the weapon as-is, and the all-powerful vets want to nerf it, so their time playing is easier and more akin to their previous CoD experience. Your logic sucks. CoD? What the heck is that? Oh...you mean the crappy "everybody wins" game that isn't worth $5 yet people pay $60 every year? There is such a thing as balance, and the HMG does not fit into the balance right now. It is too easy. If anything...the current HMG is more akin to the CoD experience than any other gun... the hmg is balanced just like how every gun has been in this game. its people not learning that make it op. oh yeah whyd you chicken out vs us on friday? had a contract v you and you didnt show.
Lasarte Ioni Noob Gaming 72	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:12:00 - [22] - Quote Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: Lasarte Ioni wrote: Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: The HMG needs something to happen to it; it just does. I have one corp-mate who is absolutely destroying everyone using it (have a screencap of him going 30/0 using mostly militia stuff, obviously not the HMG Sure, i use type I assault suit with a GEK 38 (every other module is a militia BPO) and my normal scores are 25/5 going SOLO, BECAUSE the player-base sucks, since I've never gotten more than a 2,5 KDR in any FPS and usually playing w friends. I flank, point and click 90% of the players, and most heavies aren't an exception; get some cover, make sure u expose less than 1/4 of your body and if headshoting you don't even need a full magazine to drop em (ofc there are exceptions, but I'm sure there are lots of ppl way better than me) So the problem isn't the heavy that can't even chase you if you disengage, it's YOU not disengaging. lol...you picked and chose what you quote and use. Keep reading, and you'll see that the person I mentioned uses a LOGI as his main, and can't do nearly as well, kill-wise, as he does with the HMG. Same person, two different loadouts, two different guns...two completely different results. So, actually read what is written, then respond. EDIT: Also, read on to what I said about how I react to Heavies... So he uses logi as a main. You see, i didn't quote it because its not relevant. I run Assault with nanoinyector because i'd like to be logi, but the Type I suit is terribad for combat, so it's normal he don't kill **** w logi (also secondary weapon is a must for me) what im saying is: he has the skills to use at least a standard HMG, and i suppose the core skills (armor/shield, fittings) I don't have any shield skill and just the AR skill to use advanced, but i can tear to pieces almost everything while using full militia mods. Then, either i m OP, or (most probably) ppl just don't know how to play (yet) I run when i see a tank because I'm not match for him. I don't run when i see a heavy, i take cover and nail him down. If somebody can't kill a heavy, he should just run, the heavy CANT chase him, so leave the heavy to ppl that don't have trouble dealing with them. 90% of bitchin' about OP in this forum is ppl who refuses to disengage when they can't win because it's an affront towards their combat code or something. Well, welcome to the future, leave the zweihander outside. Also, if you react just like you say you do, what's the matter then? if everyone did it, it would be the heavies telling us how they need to be fixed because they are too UP, heavy is the bully class for it preys on noobs like no other, i've seen a heavy tank 5 noobs and penta them, but that same heavy can be killed w/o using a full magazine by someone competent. PD: just my opinion, just as you have yours, i think you are wrong, you think I'm wrong and CCP is gonna hear the cries and nerf everything till we only play with full militia Assaults. Then they will remove headshots, because "that dude just nuked me w 3 shots, too OP" Have a good day.
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:22:00 - [23] - Quote DRAlgernop Krieger wrote: Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: DRAlgernop Krieger wrote: Omnipotent lilmamaj wrote: @ Phoenix this is quite obvious but the scrubs above us think its perfectly fine The scrubs above you want to keep the weapon as-is, and the all-powerful vets want to nerf it, so their time playing is easier and more akin to their previous CoD experience. Your logic sucks. CoD? What the heck is that? Oh...you mean the crappy "everybody wins" game that isn't worth $5 yet people pay $60 every year? There is such a thing as balance, and the HMG does not fit into the balance right now. It is too easy. If anything...the current HMG is more akin to the CoD experience than any other gun... Everything in the game -shouldn't- be balanced, if everything is perfectly balanced then we just might as well roll dice and see who happens to roll the higher number... I suppose a lone AR gunner should be able to take down an HAV, right? You know...for the sake of balance... lol...Balance isn't "everything should be able to take out everything else"...far from it. But since that's what you think balance means, I doubt I'll be able to change your mind, no matter how wrong you are. Balance does not mean "equality", which is what a lot of people (inaccurately) think. Balance is important for the life of games. It just is. To say "we can't balance the game, so deal with it" is just wrong, and will shorten the game's life very fast. A lone AR guy shouldn't be able to take out a lone Heavy unless the AR guy has the jump on the Heavy, but, the lone Heavy shouldn't be able to use an HMG near or at the edge of an AR's range with great effect (what it can, currently). The HMG has shorter range, it is a fairly inaccurate suppression weapon; its role is to take out enemies at close range or, at range, dissuade them from shooting at his (the HMG's) nearby allies. He will not do a lot of killing at range, yet...that happens a lot with the current HMG. Right now, the HMG is more akin to an AR with a huge clip, great accuracy, much higher RoF and less damage-per-bullet (which, coupled with the much greater RoF, actually does more DPS than the AR). It needs a change; shortening the range I think is all that needs to be done
Lasarte Ioni Noob Gaming 72	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:29:00 - [24] - Quote Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: Right now, the HMG is more akin to an AR with a huge clip, great accuracy, much higher RoF and less damage-per-bullet (which, coupled with the much greater RoF, actually does more DPS than the AR). It needs a change; shortening the range I think is all that needs to be done I'll fix it for you: Right now, the HMG is more akin to an AR with a huge clip, low accuracy, much higher RoF and less damage-per-bullet (which, coupled with the much greater RoF and the much lower accuracy, actually does about the same DPS than the AR but w/o the need to reload every kill or 2). It doesn't need a change; standing alone in front of a heavy is like standing still in front of a LAV just like it should be.
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:29:00 - [25] - Quote theschizogenious wrote: oh yeah whyd you chicken out vs us on friday? had a contract v you and you didnt show. Got proof? Never saw it, and I don't know any of us who did. Never heard anything on any of our channels, nor our website.
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:45:00 - [26] - Quote Lasarte Ioni wrote: Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: Right now, the HMG is more akin to an AR with a huge clip, great accuracy, much higher RoF and less damage-per-bullet (which, coupled with the much greater RoF, actually does more DPS than the AR). It needs a change; shortening the range I think is all that needs to be done I'll fix it for you: Right now, the HMG is more akin to an AR with a huge clip, low accuracy, much higher RoF and less damage-per-bullet (which, coupled with the much greater RoF and the much lower accuracy, actually does about the same DPS than the AR but w/o the need to reload every kill or 2). It doesn't need a change; standing alone in front of a heavy is like standing still in front of a LAV just like it should be. Let's do some math, shall we? This is also assuming all bullets hit, no extra skills to modify the base stats, Standard weapons. In a minute, an HMG can fire 1,275 rounds (with reloads factored in), for a maximum damage of 20,400. In the same time, and AR can fire 540 bullets (with reloads factored in) for a maximum damage of 16,740. (however, due to the maximum capacity of the AR being at 300, the real damage is going to be 9,300, less than half the HMG's) 4,000 damage between the two, almost a fifth of the HMG output (11,100 difference, more than half, without resupplying the AR), is not a little bit of extra damage... And for DPS...HMG has 340 DPS, the AR has ~278.3 DPS (155 DPS without resupplying). I'd say that's a significant difference.
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:50:00 - [27] - Quote Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: This is also assuming all bullets hit that's quite an assumption however. as the hmg is hipfire only, it almost CAN'T happen
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:51:00 - [28] - Quote Buzzwords wrote: Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: This is also assuming all bullets hit that's quite an assumption however. as the hmg is hipfire only, it almost CAN'T happen You're not going to hit every time with the AR either, unless you're at CQC range. EDIT: Don't forget that ARs actually have a WORSE accuracy rating than the HMGs; 56-58 vs 60-62. If only half the HMG bullets hit, the HMG still has a greater damage output unless the AR is resupplying.
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2013.01.27 17:56:00 - [29] - Quote Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: Buzzwords wrote: Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: This is also assuming all bullets hit that's quite an assumption however. as the hmg is hipfire only, it almost CAN'T happen You're not going to hit every time with the AR either, unless you're at CQC range. EDIT: Don't forget that ARs actually have a WORSE accuracy rating than the HMGs; 56-58 vs 60-62. If only half the HMG bullets hit, the HMG still has a greater damage output unless the AR is resupplying (and the AR hits 100% of the time). but it's POSSIBLE for an AR to have perfect accuracy, you can shoulder it and fire it with very little spread. no matter how good you are with the hmg, you are FORCED to miss at least SOME % of the time. also, the accuracy rating in the info tab is absolutely meaningless. look up laser rifles... seriously.
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.01.27 18:02:00 - [30] - Quote Buzzwords wrote: Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: Buzzwords wrote: Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: This is also assuming all bullets hit that's quite an assumption however. as the hmg is hipfire only, it almost CAN'T happen You're not going to hit every time with the AR either, unless you're at CQC range. EDIT: Don't forget that ARs actually have a WORSE accuracy rating than the HMGs; 56-58 vs 60-62. If only half the HMG bullets hit, the HMG still has a greater damage output unless the AR is resupplying (and the AR hits 100% of the time). but it's POSSIBLE for an AR to have perfect accuracy, you can shoulder it and fire it with very little spread. no matter how good you are with the hmg, you are FORCED to miss at least SOME % of the time. Did you also notice I excluded the "mandatory" buffs to the weapons? Like the different base Weaponry effects? Also, there is no way you can fire, and hit perfectly, for that much damage in the time-frame (one minute) regardless of the weapon, at least against troops. But...if you're shooting at an installation or tank (that isn't firing back), you're going to have nearly all your bullets hit just due to the fact that its a pretty big target. And I never specified a range; if its 5m, I'd say most bullets are going to hit, regardless of the gun. At max range...the AR is still going to miss some if firing full-auto (which it has to under this circumstance). And to be fair, both have to be hipfiring.



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