I've posted this in multiple places, but it deserves it's own thread.

Realistically speaking this option makes the most sense, and pleases all parties. The weekly cap keeps everybody somewhat on a level playing field. This is great for people who can't play everyday, and it alleviates DUST being a full time job. I believe once you hit your weekly cap 1 WP = 1 SP. This would allow your performance to be directly tied to how many skill points you get from the battle.

After hitting the weekly cap 1 WP= 1 SP, Allows for the hardcore players to feel as if they aren't being punished for playing a game that they enjoy. This also allows for newer players to somewhat catch up to everybody else if they not only put the time into the game, but also are somewhat decent at it.

However though, when behind a redline you shouldn't get any WP's for any actions you perform, because hiding behind the redline destroys the pacing of the game, and generally speaking is a sissy thing to do.

The problem with the weekly cap is it ensures that newer players will NEVER be given the opportunity to catch up to people who have been playing longer, let alone have a somewhat even playing field. CCP needs to quit catering the game to a "casual" player-base that doesn't exist. Zipper did the same thing with MAG, and most of us know all too well what happened with that. In many ways, the weekly cap was broken, and linked progression directly with long you've played versus how good you actually are.

At the very least, Option 5 needs to be tested. It's the only option that not only rewards players for actually being good, but it allows for newer players to be given the opportunity to somewhat level the playing field, and somewhat close the gap between themselves and older players. Option 5 is "rollover" without CCP having to put "rollover" in the game.

In regards to active boosters, they will actually perform their job, and allow people to do more faster. Currently all the active booster really does it raise your daily SP cap a bit. However once hitting the cap with 1 WP = 1 SP it will actually feel as if you are getting your moneys worth out of the active booster. Thus people will ultimately spend more money on the active boosters. I don't think people realize that by voting for option 2 they are allowing CCP to rob them out of the purpose of their active booster which is to do more faster, versus paying to raise an SP cap.

TL;DR by voting for anything other than option 5 you are letting CCP rob you out of your active booster.

Option 2 fits my play habits better. Get over it.

-1 guy I've had to many 3 and 4k games to even consider that an option. not to mention the fact that unless it devolves into a redline sniper match you almost have to try to stay below 1.5k. 1SP=1WP would ruin this games shelf life.

So this game should cater to your playing habits? Selfish don't you think?

Lol, 3 and 4k SP games. That's in Skirmish, which lasts far longer than an Ambush match.

All the 1k SP soft cap will do is to drive everyone into Ambush matches because they're faster than Skirmish matches.

Has the current cap had that effect? I've certainly had no trouble finding full skirmish matches.

CCP asked for players to vote and you're calling him selfish because he chose the option he agreed with more?

Can you smell what hypocrisy is cookin'?

You should have to earn sp not be told how much you can have then have a limit no matter how well you do, you still get the same amount. That's is selfish to limit someone else cause you are not as good as the other player

Option #2 does not limit the amount SP you can earn it just limits the speed at which you earn it. Which is in an attempt to keep the game toward the speed of skill progression where CCP wants it.

I think that if option #5 wins in the votes and is implemented the weekly cap will be reduced due to the amount of SP you will be able to earn after you hit cap compared to to option #2.

When something says cap on it, it means they are going to limit how much you can earn. If they wanted it that way why did CCP of all people say that they were going with no cap (1wp=1sp)

What ruins this games shelf life is the broken FW, lack of game types, and the need to play everyday to keep up

With regards of the title, paying for AUR is still an optional thing. I've only ever payed for AUR twice and that was only for two one-day boosters. I still enjoy the game. If you, the OP, have any objection to paying CCP for AUR, then don't do it.


I don't really see how you can say that when it was just a couple of days ago released in open beta. I'm sure CCP devs have more important things to worry about at the minute. Sure, it can get a tad boring with two game types but it's a game. When a game gets boring, don't play it for a few days or weeks until you feel you'll enjoy it again. It's really your own fault if you're getting bored with Dust.

I've posted this in multiple places, but it deserves it's own thread.

Realistically speaking this option makes the most sense, and pleases all parties. The weekly cap keeps everybody somewhat on a level playing field. This is great for people who can't play everyday, and it alleviates DUST being a full time job. I believe once you hit your weekly cap 1 WP = 1 SP. This would allow your performance to be directly tied to how many skill points you get from the battle.

After hitting the weekly cap 1 WP= 1 SP, Allows for the hardcore players to feel as if they aren't being punished for playing a game that they enjoy. This also allows for newer players to somewhat catch up to everybody else if they not only put the time into the game, but also are somewhat decent at it.

However though, when behind a redline you shouldn't get any WP's for any actions you perform, because hiding behind the redline destroys the pacing of the game, and generally speaking is a sissy thing to do.

CCP needs to quit catering the game to a "casual" player-base that doesn't exist. Zipper did the same thing with MAG, and most of us know all too well what happened with that.

At the very least, Option 5 needs to be tested.

I will put this simply:

with option #2 newer players will have no chance to catch up to veteran players since both will max out their sp cap every week

with option #5 newer players will have a slight chance to catch up by playing better and getting more wp with better skill, since this game is about skill right?



also look at Battlefield 3, currently if you dont buy the shortcut pack, you are at a disadvantaged because you have limited guns and no scopes on all guns, but if you play the objectives well and scoring points eventually you will catch up with other players

Lol good troll.... If you were serious... Get off me fanboy.

[quote=Mirana Cheshire]I will put this simply:


Option 5 only caters to the "hardcore" players not to the new players so you need to stop making that argument because everyone knows it's bull. Also "hardcore" players whether new or vet are still gonna be able to earn something decent under this option, sure it takes longer to earn anything but if you want to go at it all day and play 100 matches then there is another 100,000 SP for ya. Sure it's not 1-2 mil like you would earn without a cap but at least it's better than 50(75 with booster).

ill direct you to this above and this excerpt i pulled from the poll along with some commentary about that excerpt

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=495754#post495754



1)Daily cap with an increased soft cap
2)Weekly cap with an increased soft cap
3)No changes to the current system (daily cap + low soft cap)
4) Daily cap with no limit on the soft cap
5) Weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap

The increased soft cap would entail rewarding one skill point for each warpoint after the normal daily or weekly cap has been hit, up to the increased soft cap (currently 50 SP, we will raise it to 1000 SP per match). This is to provide an incentive towards playing well even after the cap has been reached and make the play experience after hitting the cap better. We are also considering another alternative, which is to *not* have a cap (of 1k) on the soft cap, so, after weekly cap is hit, you still get 1 SP per WP at end of match. We would like to hear which of these you like better as well (cap on the soft cap vs no cap on soft cap).

So it still limits SP based on WP but again as ive laid out the WP gain in an ambush match is rarely greater than 1000WP. In skirmish its closer to 2000WP but you spend twice the time so if a person played two ambush games they would spend about the same time as one skirmish match. So then if option 2 goes into effect why would any "grinders" play anything but ambush. And ultimately that disparity will still exist regardless of option 2 or option 5. Option 5 simply corrects for the increased time spent in skirmish is all im trying to say.


But thank you for your responses and i appreciate your concerns.

Edit--Also from what i understand by weekly cap is that it will remain hard cap like we have now with daily so no diminishing returns. The only difference between option 2 and 5 is the restriction on soft cap but as ive laid out that difference is almost negligible and ultimately limits players who want to play skirmish after they hit their cap but also want to grind and even then it isnt any different that 1000SP limit other than it correct for the time spent in skirmish.

First and foremost thank you CCP for listening to the community and opening up this discussion.

I'd support either 2 or 5.

2) Weekly cap with an increased soft cap
Provides a more flexible play option while containing the SP progression to maintain a curve. Ideal if the next iteration after this change is going to be a longer time coming.

5) Weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap
Provides the same flexible play option while not blowing the lid off the SP progression curve. An idea introduction to the recently arrived Open Beta participants provided the next iteration after this change is in the not too distant future (think of this as not just a hotfix but also a short term promo event for Open Beta release).

0.02 ISK
Cross

EDIT: Regardless of which option is chosen please make sure to reduce the SP per second mechanic as it promotes worse farming than the old LAV "bumper cars" + Repair Tool exploit that was removed.

Well, OP is right, the longer it takes for you to max out the skills you want, the more money you're going to eventually spend on the game.

I'm hoping in the 30 days i can specialize in the areas i want and not have to use boosters ever again though, i think most people will take this route, i want to spend as little money as possible.

CCP needs to quit catering the game to a "casual" player-base that doesn't exist.

option #5 is problematic in my opinion cause tank drivers= SP vending machines. A good tank driver can rack up to between 2500-4000WP per skirmish match. Now we add the active booster to this and we get somewhere between 3750-6000SP per skirmish match. And yes these WP numbers are realistic all what you need to do is get a tank, 2 gunners and a defend order on top of it and you can see your SP amount going trough the roof. And this causes a unbalanced setup between good and crap players. Getting 1000 SP per match is fine in my opinion. Sure it provides that people are going to play ambush more but who cares? Personally i plan to play skirmish and when i hit my cap i switch to ambush cause they are quick matches and i can squeeze more SP out in a shorter time. Another thing is people will find a way to boost WP to get much higher amounts of SP.

Alright here's my 2 cents,

+1 to the post = cent 1

Cent 2,

If we go with 1k after cap each game, let me tell you how quickly we will go in and farm ambush matches. Honestly I almost prefer this option, because by the time I'm done with 1 skirmish match I will have earned alot more sp from ambush, tons more especially if I join towards the end of ambush matches.


Now what the OP is basically saying that I take from anyways, is with the other option 1wp=1sp you are less likely to have farmers as you have to actually do good in a match instead of getting 1 kill in a match then hiding to earn your 1k sp.

Granted the top players, say 5-10% of players will get 1.5k and up per game or per skirmish, I got 3500 wp today in skirmish which would = the same amount with a 1000sp soft cap in terms of time if I had played ambush matches during that game.


The people who want to have the 1k soft cap are either bad players or scared of being left behind so much you'd rather hinder the rest of us and farm sp for free when you don't even earn it.

By employing the 1k soft cap YOU ARE FARMING the sp system.

Post over.

Alright here's my 2 cents,

+1 to the post = cent 1

Cent 2,

If we go with 1k after cap each game, let me tell you how quickly we will go in and farm ambush matches. Honestly I almost prefer this option, because by the time I'm done with 1 skirmish match I will have earned alot more sp from ambush, tons more especially if I join towards the end of ambush matches.


Now what the OP is basically saying that I take from anyways, is with the other option 1wp=1sp you are less likely to have farmers as you have to actually do good in a match instead of getting 1 kill in a match then hiding to earn your 1k sp.

Granted the top players, say 5-10% of players will get 1.5k and up per game or per skirmish, I got 3500 wp today in skirmish which would = the same amount with a 1000sp soft cap in terms of time if I had played ambush matches during that game.


The people who want to have the 1k soft cap are either bad players or scared of being left behind so much you'd rather hinder the rest of us and farm sp for free when you don't even earn it.

By employing the 1k soft cap YOU ARE FARMING the sp system.

Post over.

It's not a free 1k SP, it's still 1 WP = 1 SP UP TO 1k SP.




So you just wasted a post..sorry you misunderstanding what was stated just caused you to post an invalid argument.

You still have to work for that MAX of 1k SP.

option #5 is problematic in my opinion cause tank drivers= SP vending machines. A good tank driver can rack up to between 2500-4000WP per skirmish match. Now we add the active booster to this and we get somewhere between 3750-6000SP per skirmish match. And yes these WP numbers are realistic all what you need to do is get a tank, 2 gunners and a defend order on top of it and you can see your SP amount going trough the roof. And this causes a unbalanced setup between good and crap players. Getting 1000 SP per match is fine in my opinion. Sure it provides that people are going to play ambush more but who cares? Personally i plan to play skirmish and when i hit my cap i switch to ambush cause they are quick matches and i can squeeze more SP out in a shorter time. Another thing is people will find a way to boost WP to get much higher amounts of SP.

That part I didn't know, but its still easy to farm.

As I said who can't get 1000sp per match lol either skirmish or ambush.


But I do think if your team just sucked it up and you and one other guy was the reason you won, you should get an sp incentive for the win. After all you did the work

We all know this is temporary right?


Also if I get 1 wp = 1 sp after the cap and have the active booster, I can easily go 2000+ sp then add my booster, that's +3000 for a single match. Do this over a number of games and can easily grind more low cost skill that greatly improve my merc.

With the 1000 sp total after cap, one gets 1500 with booster, which is still a good payout for grinders.

That's the entire point of the active booster. Any SP gained after reaching the cap should have to be EARNED for performing well in battle. This game currently doesn't reward players for actual player performance which is a bit ridiculous in an FPS.

I don't know why people kept mentioning about "catching up". Dust is part of Eve-Online, so it carries the same element. Those who start early, will always be ahead. So who cares.

I started Eve 7 years ago, I know I wouldn't catch up to 3+ year older characters, but that's fine. :) Sure Dust is a fps game, entirely different game, but it is "Eve-Online", so again, it must carry the same elements eve have and doesn't mean you should be given a chance to catch up for late joiners (but you STILL can!).

I agree with protoman... the better you play, the faster you skill up. 1 wp = 1 sp after cap is the best way to keep it fun for EVERYONE

Good and bad players aside lets run some basic numbers assuming that 2 players are equal in skill but one can play more.

No SP soft cap:

Casual: @ 2 days a week 6 hours a day(casual might play less)

2000 WP per match: if they hit cap after 8 hours
2000 * 4(matches per hour) = 8000 WP
8000 * 4(hours after hitting cap) = 32000 WP
(Don't forget the booster) 32000 * 1.5 = 48000 SP

Hardcore: @ 5 days a week 4 hours a day(they often play more than this)

2000 WP per match: if they hit cap after 8 hours
2000 * 4(matches per hour) = 8000 WP(same so far)
8000 * 12(hours after hitting cap) = 96000 WP(Wait what?)
(Don't forget the booster) 96000 * 1.5 = 144000 SP(Are you serious?!?!?)

Hardcore - Casual = 96000 SP

1k SP cap per match:

Casual: @ 2 days a week 6 hours a day(casual might play less)

1000 WP per match: if they hit cap after 8 hours
1000 * 5(matches per hour/you can run ambush) = 5000 WP
5000 * 4(hours after hitting cap) = 20000 WP
(Don't forget the booster) 20000 * 1.5 = 30000 SP

Hardcore: @ 5 days a week 4 hours a day(they often play more than this)

1000 WP per match: if they hit cap after 8 hours
1000 * 5(matches per hour/you can run ambush) = 5000 WP(again same so far)
5000 * 12(hours after hitting cap) = 60000(well that still sucks)
(Don't forget the booster) 60000 * 1.5 = 90000 SP

Hardcore - Casual = 60000 SP

It sucks either way because the hardcore player pulls ahead, but at least with that soft cap he/she doesn't pull ahead quite as much. I think I'll go for the one that doesn't suck as bad for everyone besides the minority that has the time to play more.

Both options make life better for "hardcore" players but option 5 makes it just a bit easier on them.

,I honestly think he is trying to get u guys to understand the fps mentality, not just his personal preference. From what I read it may be a moot point because a rolling cap will be in place...now with how slow ccp does things it really may matter...we shall see.

It rewards you for doing good up until the cap, so you reach your cap faster and can either get off the game or (once they implement the new system) have more time than all those scrubs out there to farm 1k SP every match.

You're still gonna pull WAY ahead of everyone else in the long run. Why are you so set on maxing out your skills tomorrow instead of what is good for the whole game and the whole player base of the game?

To the OP: people are perfectly within their rights to disagree with you. and many of us do.

So your pontificating simply shows you to be an obnoxious derp who's throwing a tantrum because he's being slowed to the pace of everyone around him.

get over it, because the imperfect voice is not the voice of the forums. By and large, not many of us really care what you want.

Your post makes no sense. Come back when you can construct a proper argument.

Alright here's my 2 cents,

+1 to the post = cent 1

Cent 2,

If we go with 1k after cap each game, let me tell you how quickly we will go in and farm ambush matches. Honestly I almost prefer this option, because by the time I'm done with 1 skirmish match I will have earned alot more sp from ambush, tons more especially if I join towards the end of ambush matches.


Now what the OP is basically saying that I take from anyways, is with the other option 1wp=1sp you are less likely to have farmers as you have to actually do good in a match instead of getting 1 kill in a match then hiding to earn your 1k sp.

Granted the top players, say 5-10% of players will get 1.5k and up per game or per skirmish, I got 3500 wp today in skirmish which would = the same amount with a 1000sp soft cap in terms of time if I had played ambush matches during that game.


The people who want to have the 1k soft cap are either bad players or scared of being left behind so much you'd rather hinder the rest of us and farm sp for free when you don't even earn it.

By employing the 1k soft cap YOU ARE FARMING the sp system.

Post over.

Except the ones that only play 1 day a week or the ones that play 2 days a week and cap out but then fall WAY behind even though they play EVERY week.

It's not the better you play it's the more you play, the cap means the better you play the faster you reach the cap and can focus on other things.

I've posted this in multiple places, but it deserves it's own thread.
The problem with the weekly cap is it ensures that newer players will NEVER be given the opportunity to catch up to people who have been playing longer, let alone have a somewhat even playing field. CCP needs to quit catering the game to a "casual" player-base that doesn't exist.

Seriously.....

The "pooor new guys will never catch up" argument is just LOL. The rollover system will need to add something for that. But saying that soft cap should be 1wp=1Sp so they have a chance is just plane hypocritical... even worse, older player that will have farmed over the cap for 6 month farming noobs for SP will be even harder to catch up with in the first place. And as they ll have knowledge of the game they will keep digging the gap as they re bound to do way more SP over the cap than noobs for the same amount of play time.

And the money part ? LOL. Forgetting about the +50% on the cap itself ? And if soft cap is 1000 sp. That will mean an extra 5000 sp each game. So do explain where we re being robbed there ?

Protoman, you re entitled to your opinion but stop calling people dumb because they disagree coz that s pretty much all you do here. Never have i seen you post about people s idea or suggestion to improve the game in a constructive way... All you do is qqqqqqqq for what YOU want.... grow up.

Option #2 should be called charity. Getting 1000 (1,500 with booster) for either being terrible or good.... A joke for a sp system. You should have to earn it

I just switched my vote because originally i thought option 5 was for an unrestricted SP gain with no CAP of any kind.


It's a weekly cap + no limit on soft CAP. However from i understand the soft cap still means 1WP=1SP. Well if thats the case i think that is fine because in most Skirmish matches i wont get much higher than 1000 SP avg WP for me is about 1200-1400 WP. I have had games of 2000+ and reached 3000WP once.

In the larger WP games it was because it was a large map with multiple objectives and multiple things to hack.

Another thing to consider is redline matches DIMINISH your WP potential since once a team is redlined there is hardly anything to generate WP except resupply, revive, repair, kills, assists. Sounds like a lot but against a team that is redlined its not like there will be much need for those things. And kills/assists will be fought over for by the entire team.


When the match is hotly contested then WP gains is easier but that means you have two relatively equal teams and there is a back and forth that deserves a better SP reward by way of more WP that you gain from rehacking stuff. But this scenario is far and few between when you have a team of vets vs noobs. But vets vs vets and NOOBS vs NOOBS offer the greatest WP generation and both instances allow for a fair SP acquisition.


Of course if one squad has a tank and proceed to destroy every installation that is a lot WP that can be hogged by that individual 100-120 WP per installation adds up fast. But even then it often results in a redline situation and the player isnt likely to get more than 2000SP in a skirmish match which lasts roughly twice as long as ambush where top players are consistently earning in the 800-1200 WP range every game. So it ultimately works out.

Everyone saying they get 4000+ SP games on a regular forget that is before they hit the cap which provides SP for WP plus time spent in game. Once the cap hits the soft cap will ONLY be 1WP=1SP, im sorry nobody here is earning more than 2000WP/game on a regular basis unless the games are very hotly contested. If you are seeing this then you are either playing other vets or more likely not playing all that well because hardcore vets limit your WP potential by way of redlining anyway. This mean casual players are more likely to benefit since they are the most likely to be involved in matches that result in volatility where as vets will often get a team redlined and then be limited to how much more WP they will gain.


Ultimately the way the game dishes out WP and how greater skill against a team of less skill can actually hurt your WP generation this serves as an inherent check and balance against vets players while helping casual and newer players.


In conclusion based on my above arguments it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY a person will earn more than 1000 SP per game in ambush and also balances skirmish where 2x time spent in match gives 2x potential SP on avg instead of a blanket 1000SP.

Think about those numbers for a second you know i am right. If option 2 goes into effect there will be no point to skirmish once cap is hit since 1000SP soft cap in either mode makes ambush more attractive. Whereas no limit on Soft cap other than the 1WP=1SP (this is what option 5 means) corrects for the time imbalance between ambush and skirmish while still giving an avg of 1000SP per 7min cycle.

I base this on the fact that most of my ambush matches last me about 7 mins or less

Skirmish match fully redlined lasts about 10-12 minuts.(These matches will very unlikely see greater than 2000WP for the top players in the match)

Matches that last longer will generate higher WP and thus more SP but its still avg out to 1000SP/7mins of game time

3000WP=3000SP but ill bet everything that match lasted close to 20-full 25 minutes.

Do you see how option 5 balances the time difference between both modes while still playing close to the 1000WP/match limit option 2 would have across all game modes?

Option #2 is charity. Any SP gained after reaching the cap should have to be earned.

Option 5 is potentially better in the short term, but it will be phased out soon enough anyway. I am oddly in favor of it, despite that it will grant motivated players with the time to invest a greater chance at accelerating in SP gain over players who have less time.

You need to do something to gain the benefit, and that is more important than limiting SP for all players. It's a measure of fair trade. I see no harm in that, or ability to exploit it, aside from the current Logistics WP generation with all their toys. That is unfortunately an unfair advantage, but it can be changed.

After reaching the weekly cap SP should be purely based upon how good you play versus how long you've played.

Option #2 should be called charity. Getting 1000 (1,500 with booster) for either being terrible or good.... A joke for a sp system. You should have to earn it

So since I have a full time job and am a parent which only gives me weekends to play and sometimes not even that I should be punished. I love this game as much as the no lifers that can play every day of the week, but love it less when I go up against them because they are already in all proto gear and me in mid range gear.

You want to reward people that have no life and don't pay anymore into the game than I do and, to take it outside the game, contribute less to the community than I do? Where's my reward as a gamer?

Option 5 is MUCH WORSE in the short term, if it's for short term then put it at a weekly cap with NO SP SOFT CAP because the people that are waiting for the Dust 514 official release are going to be WAY behind and a lot of them will probably decide to drop the game altogether because of matches that they have against these dedicated players.

I tried to be political about all this but honestly I could give a rats a** about the 1% that is arguing for more SP for them to reward them for their "dedication" to the game. They are not any more dedicated to the game than I am but they do have more time. I will probably put as much money if not more into this game than each of them will, but on top of that I am looking to the future of this game being involved with the EVE universe whereas a lot of them, of their own admission, just want to play this as a FPS. Because it's an FPS they want instant gratification, so do I. So then lets just have CCP give EVERYONE all the skills so we can all be on equal footing right off the bat, that's the only way to be "FAIR" about all of this.

Get over yourselves "hardcore" players and for once make a sacrifice without QQing about how "unfair" it is for you. When things are made "FAIR" for you then it's "UNFAIR" for everyone else. The world doesn't evolve around you.



"a measure of fair trade"...What's fair about letting the 1% get so far ahead of someone that works and has a family but is also dedicated to this game?

You see no ability to exploit it? I have already seen(and been involved in) intentionally letting the enemy take positions just so we can run in and kill them all and take it back.

Did you know when you're against a newberry team you can actually force them in the direction you want them to go?

I have seen it done before, newberries go for the easiest objective most of the time and all you have to do is leave a hole for them. No soft cap will make this the way for the grinders to play all the time, that's a way of exploiting and ensuring you get more SP each match.

Option #2 is charity. Any SP gained after reaching the cap should have to be earned.

Option #2

2) Weekly cap with an increased soft cap

The increased soft cap would entail rewarding one skill point for each warpoint after the normal daily or weekly cap has been hit, up to the increased soft cap (currently 50 SP, we will raise it to 1000 SP per match)

So since I have a full time job and am a parent which only gives me weekends to play and sometimes not even that I should be punished. I love this game as much as the no lifers that can play every day of the week, but love it less when I go up against them because they are already in all proto gear and me in mid range gear.

You want to reward people that have no life and don't pay anymore into the game than I do and, to take it outside the game, contribute less to the community than I do? Where's my reward as a gamer?

Option 5 is MUCH WORSE in the short term, if it's for short term then put it at a weekly cap with NO SP SOFT CAP because the people that are waiting for the Dust 514 official release are going to be WAY behind and a lot of them will probably decide to drop the game altogether because of matches that they have against these dedicated players.

I tried to be political about all this but honestly I could give a rats a** about the 1% that is arguing for more SP for them to reward them for their "dedication" to the game. They are not any more dedicated to the game than I am but they do have more time. I will probably put as much money if not more into this game than each of them will, but on top of that I am looking to the future of this game being involved with the EVE universe whereas a lot of them, of their own admission, just want to play this as a FPS. Because it's an FPS they want instant gratification, so do I. So then lets just have CCP give EVERYONE all the skills so we can all be on equal footing right off the bat, that's the only way to be "FAIR" about all of this.

Get over yourselves "hardcore" players and for once make a sacrifice without QQing about how "unfair" it is for you. When things are made "FAIR" for you then it's "UNFAIR" for everyone else. The world doesn't evolve around you.



"a measure of fair trade"...What's fair about letting the 1% get so far ahead of someone that works and has a family but is also dedicated to this game?

You see no ability to exploit it? I have already seen(and been involved in) intentionally letting the enemy take positions just so we can run in and kill them all and take it back.

Did you know when you're against a newberry team you can actually force them in the direction you want them to go?

I have seen it done before, newberries go for the easiest objective most of the time and all you have to do is leave a hole for them. No soft cap will make this the way for the grinders to play all the time, that's a way of exploiting and ensuring you get more SP each match.

Feelings finally caught. Will provide a real response later.

This is to say, I'd rather some small percentage of exceptional players see a benefit over other players, (even if those others are maybe not as good because they don't have the time to get that good), than have an open system that allows people to just log in and skill past everyone else simply because they logged in and elected to join battle and stand in the MCC 40 times a day.

I've posted this in multiple places, but it deserves it's own thread.

Realistically speaking this option makes the most sense, and pleases all parties. The weekly cap keeps everybody somewhat on a level playing field. This is great for people who can't play everyday, and it alleviates DUST being a full time job. I believe once you hit your weekly cap 1 WP = 1 SP. This would allow your performance to be directly tied to how many skill points you get from the battle.

After hitting the weekly cap 1 WP= 1 SP, Allows for the hardcore players to feel as if they aren't being punished for playing a game that they enjoy. This also allows for newer players to somewhat catch up to everybody else if they not only put the time into the game, but also are somewhat decent at it.

However though, when behind a redline you shouldn't get any WP's for any actions you perform, because hiding behind the redline destroys the pacing of the game, and generally speaking is a sissy thing to do.

The problem with the weekly cap is it ensures that newer players will NEVER be given the opportunity to catch up to people who have been playing longer, let alone have a somewhat even playing field. CCP needs to quit catering the game to a "casual" player-base that doesn't exist. Zipper did the same thing with MAG, and most of us know all too well what happened with that. In many ways, the weekly cap was broken, and linked progression directly with long you've played versus how good you actually are.

At the very least, Option 5 needs to be tested. It's the only option that not only rewards players for actually being good, but it allows for newer players to be given the opportunity to somewhat level the playing field, and somewhat close the gap between themselves and older players. Option 5 is "rollover" without CCP having to put "rollover" in the game.

In regards to active boosters, they will actually perform their job, and allow people to do more faster. Currently all the active booster really does it raise your daily SP cap a bit. However once hitting the cap with 1 WP = 1 SP it will actually feel as if you are getting your moneys worth out of the active booster. Thus people will ultimately spend more money on the active boosters. I don't think people realize that by voting for option 2 they are allowing CCP to rob them out of the purpose of their active booster which is to do more faster, versus paying to raise an SP cap.

TL;DR by voting for anything other than option 5 you are letting CCP rob you out of your active booster.

Option 2 is better for dont having ppl playing too much and be too good.... But if i have a friend who come in 6 month he always have 6 month less sp and cant make a push to be better in fact its tough for the game to have newcomer after 6 month with option 2 , only advantage the noob we have currently thats why i changed my vote to number 5

Neither option helps new players catch up unless the vets take a long break. If a new player can play 24/7 to make a push to get ahead then a vet can play 24/7 to ensure they stay FAR ahead of everyone else, not to mention a vet will probably hit their cap MUCH faster than a new player and have even more time to push further ahead.

In other words making the gap between them and the new player even bigger. Alot of people have made this argument but the logic is flawed.

First off I did read the rest and I'm glad you're enjoying the game and the forums when you're online. That is your preference of things.

Second I am as good as some of these no lifers, better than others, and no where close to the same skill as a very small amount of them. So should I not be rewarded for being at a higher skill level? Well since I can only play 2 days out of the week I am not.

Now for the reason I only quoted this part of your words. I don't know where people are getting the idea that anyone will get rewarded for just sitting in the MCC, if you just sit in the MCC before the cap you will get your SP, but after you hit your cap THE TIME BONUS GOES AWAY AND YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING TO EARN SP.

With Option 2
After the cap you get 1 WP = 1 SP UP TO 1000 SP(which is the cap)

With Option 5
After the cap you get 1 WP = 1 SP PERIOD(no limit)

So no you cannot get rewarded for just sitting in the MCC after you hit your cap.

EDIT: and as far as my corp goes I do not represent the interests of my corp in this, each member of my corp is entitled to their own opinion on gameplay matters, but when it has to do with our reputation or integrity that is when we stand together. This subject is in no way related to corporation interests but instead each players available time for play and which group they represent i.e. "hardcore" / "average" / "casual"

I think the word cap made you CAPS. I'm perfectly capable of reading versions of letters; no real need for that.

There was a time when sitting in the MCC would continue gaining you 2-3K SP per match, and if the members who call for unlimited cap get their way, it will continue to do so. I was not referring to option 2, which was actually my first choice. I was simply saying that, given option 5 does not allow for that, I held little objection and saw no reason not to put it in place temporarily just to see what happens.

Bottom line, or tl;dr if you prefer, is that I'm obviously not as concerned about being SP better than other players because I've been playing longer as you are. That doesn't concern me so much as the ability to exploit the system and SPcelerate, or just grind SP to the end of the earth and double or triple what anybody else is capable of just because you happen to be couch-bound and have nothing better to do.

I've played EVE long enough to be well accustomed to most players having far more SP than I do, and--time relevant--if I play less and devote less time to the game than they do, is it really any different than not joining the game until years after they do?

No to unlimited SP. Sure, why not, to SP you have to work for. That said though, it isn't likely a whole lot of players will pass 1000 WP per match anyway, so I'm not sure it is even relevant whether 2 or 5 is chosen.

I'll be fine with either, having no vested interest in one over the other, aside from wondering what the result of 5 will be.

What do you say for your new comer after a year with option 2?

So this game should cater to your playing habits? Selfish don't you think?

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I think the word cap made you CAPS. I'm perfectly capable of reading versions of letters; no real need for that.

It's just about the same for either option 2 or option 5

Option 5(as I stated)

Unless one takes a break they stay basically even except that the vet has better gear and knows the ropes so would probably get to the cap faster than the new player. Potential to fall further behind.

Option 2

Unless one takes a prolonged break from the game both the vet and new player will stay just about even except that again the vet will have better gear...same as before except with the cap the new player will not fall further behind quite as fast.


This is of course assuming the both put in the same amount of time, the vet may get tired or have bought the new COD and be playing that for awhile. Of course the new player may get tired of running into vets and getting ROFLstomped and decide to invest their time elsewhere.

Option 2: Hardcore Vets have an advantage

Option 5: Hardcore Vets have a bigger advantage(why do you think they have created at least 3 threads trying to sway people?)

If we aren't supposed to pick what works best for us, why the hell would there be a vote?

Some folks need to re-read CCP Cmdr. Wang's post. It calls out the unimited softcap as the one that is 1 WP=1 SP.

It makes no specification of how WP will be calculated for #2. meaning all the nubs and scrubs will simply cap off at 1k, kinda like how we cap off at 50 now.

English reading comprehension FTW.

pay attention to sentence structure. Protoman is correct, the thousand is pretty much a gimmie.

Generally not an issue for me to hit 1k WP or more. but the softcap helps newer and less skilled players more than it hinders the Elite FPS E-weenie wanks.

it's not charity, It's a playfield leveller. IMHO SP gains are one of the few places where the playfield should be level.

the reward for being a badass should be the ability to rake in asstons of ISK faster than anyone else does due to skill level.

Your reward is being able to consistently field protofits.

Your post makes no sense. Come back when you can construct a proper argument.

pot calling the kettle black much?

Says a lot of things, most of them correct.

*virtually high-fives Breakin'*