[quote=Mirana Cheshire]I will put this simply:


Option 5 only caters to the "hardcore" players not to the new players so you need to stop making that argument because everyone knows it's bull. Also "hardcore" players whether new or vet are still gonna be able to earn something decent under this option, sure it takes longer to earn anything but if you want to go at it all day and play 100 matches then there is another 100,000 SP for ya. Sure it's not 1-2 mil like you would earn without a cap but at least it's better than 50(75 with booster).

ill direct you to this above and this excerpt i pulled from the poll along with some commentary about that excerpt

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=495754#post495754



1)Daily cap with an increased soft cap
2)Weekly cap with an increased soft cap
3)No changes to the current system (daily cap + low soft cap)
4) Daily cap with no limit on the soft cap
5) Weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap

The increased soft cap would entail rewarding one skill point for each warpoint after the normal daily or weekly cap has been hit, up to the increased soft cap (currently 50 SP, we will raise it to 1000 SP per match). This is to provide an incentive towards playing well even after the cap has been reached and make the play experience after hitting the cap better. We are also considering another alternative, which is to *not* have a cap (of 1k) on the soft cap, so, after weekly cap is hit, you still get 1 SP per WP at end of match. We would like to hear which of these you like better as well (cap on the soft cap vs no cap on soft cap).

So it still limits SP based on WP but again as ive laid out the WP gain in an ambush match is rarely greater than 1000WP. In skirmish its closer to 2000WP but you spend twice the time so if a person played two ambush games they would spend about the same time as one skirmish match. So then if option 2 goes into effect why would any "grinders" play anything but ambush. And ultimately that disparity will still exist regardless of option 2 or option 5. Option 5 simply corrects for the increased time spent in skirmish is all im trying to say.


But thank you for your responses and i appreciate your concerns.

Edit--Also from what i understand by weekly cap is that it will remain hard cap like we have now with daily so no diminishing returns. The only difference between option 2 and 5 is the restriction on soft cap but as ive laid out that difference is almost negligible and ultimately limits players who want to play skirmish after they hit their cap but also want to grind and even then it isnt any different that 1000SP limit other than it correct for the time spent in skirmish.

First and foremost thank you CCP for listening to the community and opening up this discussion.

I'd support either 2 or 5.

2) Weekly cap with an increased soft cap
Provides a more flexible play option while containing the SP progression to maintain a curve. Ideal if the next iteration after this change is going to be a longer time coming.

5) Weekly cap with no limit on the soft cap
Provides the same flexible play option while not blowing the lid off the SP progression curve. An idea introduction to the recently arrived Open Beta participants provided the next iteration after this change is in the not too distant future (think of this as not just a hotfix but also a short term promo event for Open Beta release).

0.02 ISK
Cross

EDIT: Regardless of which option is chosen please make sure to reduce the SP per second mechanic as it promotes worse farming than the old LAV "bumper cars" + Repair Tool exploit that was removed.

Well, OP is right, the longer it takes for you to max out the skills you want, the more money you're going to eventually spend on the game.

I'm hoping in the 30 days i can specialize in the areas i want and not have to use boosters ever again though, i think most people will take this route, i want to spend as little money as possible.

CCP needs to quit catering the game to a "casual" player-base that doesn't exist.

option #5 is problematic in my opinion cause tank drivers= SP vending machines. A good tank driver can rack up to between 2500-4000WP per skirmish match. Now we add the active booster to this and we get somewhere between 3750-6000SP per skirmish match. And yes these WP numbers are realistic all what you need to do is get a tank, 2 gunners and a defend order on top of it and you can see your SP amount going trough the roof. And this causes a unbalanced setup between good and crap players. Getting 1000 SP per match is fine in my opinion. Sure it provides that people are going to play ambush more but who cares? Personally i plan to play skirmish and when i hit my cap i switch to ambush cause they are quick matches and i can squeeze more SP out in a shorter time. Another thing is people will find a way to boost WP to get much higher amounts of SP.

Alright here's my 2 cents,

+1 to the post = cent 1

Cent 2,

If we go with 1k after cap each game, let me tell you how quickly we will go in and farm ambush matches. Honestly I almost prefer this option, because by the time I'm done with 1 skirmish match I will have earned alot more sp from ambush, tons more especially if I join towards the end of ambush matches.


Now what the OP is basically saying that I take from anyways, is with the other option 1wp=1sp you are less likely to have farmers as you have to actually do good in a match instead of getting 1 kill in a match then hiding to earn your 1k sp.

Granted the top players, say 5-10% of players will get 1.5k and up per game or per skirmish, I got 3500 wp today in skirmish which would = the same amount with a 1000sp soft cap in terms of time if I had played ambush matches during that game.


The people who want to have the 1k soft cap are either bad players or scared of being left behind so much you'd rather hinder the rest of us and farm sp for free when you don't even earn it.

By employing the 1k soft cap YOU ARE FARMING the sp system.

Post over.

Alright here's my 2 cents,

+1 to the post = cent 1

Cent 2,

If we go with 1k after cap each game, let me tell you how quickly we will go in and farm ambush matches. Honestly I almost prefer this option, because by the time I'm done with 1 skirmish match I will have earned alot more sp from ambush, tons more especially if I join towards the end of ambush matches.


Now what the OP is basically saying that I take from anyways, is with the other option 1wp=1sp you are less likely to have farmers as you have to actually do good in a match instead of getting 1 kill in a match then hiding to earn your 1k sp.

Granted the top players, say 5-10% of players will get 1.5k and up per game or per skirmish, I got 3500 wp today in skirmish which would = the same amount with a 1000sp soft cap in terms of time if I had played ambush matches during that game.


The people who want to have the 1k soft cap are either bad players or scared of being left behind so much you'd rather hinder the rest of us and farm sp for free when you don't even earn it.

By employing the 1k soft cap YOU ARE FARMING the sp system.

Post over.

It's not a free 1k SP, it's still 1 WP = 1 SP UP TO 1k SP.




So you just wasted a post..sorry you misunderstanding what was stated just caused you to post an invalid argument.

You still have to work for that MAX of 1k SP.

option #5 is problematic in my opinion cause tank drivers= SP vending machines. A good tank driver can rack up to between 2500-4000WP per skirmish match. Now we add the active booster to this and we get somewhere between 3750-6000SP per skirmish match. And yes these WP numbers are realistic all what you need to do is get a tank, 2 gunners and a defend order on top of it and you can see your SP amount going trough the roof. And this causes a unbalanced setup between good and crap players. Getting 1000 SP per match is fine in my opinion. Sure it provides that people are going to play ambush more but who cares? Personally i plan to play skirmish and when i hit my cap i switch to ambush cause they are quick matches and i can squeeze more SP out in a shorter time. Another thing is people will find a way to boost WP to get much higher amounts of SP.

That part I didn't know, but its still easy to farm.

As I said who can't get 1000sp per match lol either skirmish or ambush.


But I do think if your team just sucked it up and you and one other guy was the reason you won, you should get an sp incentive for the win. After all you did the work

We all know this is temporary right?


Also if I get 1 wp = 1 sp after the cap and have the active booster, I can easily go 2000+ sp then add my booster, that's +3000 for a single match. Do this over a number of games and can easily grind more low cost skill that greatly improve my merc.

With the 1000 sp total after cap, one gets 1500 with booster, which is still a good payout for grinders.

That's the entire point of the active booster. Any SP gained after reaching the cap should have to be EARNED for performing well in battle. This game currently doesn't reward players for actual player performance which is a bit ridiculous in an FPS.

I don't know why people kept mentioning about "catching up". Dust is part of Eve-Online, so it carries the same element. Those who start early, will always be ahead. So who cares.

I started Eve 7 years ago, I know I wouldn't catch up to 3+ year older characters, but that's fine. :) Sure Dust is a fps game, entirely different game, but it is "Eve-Online", so again, it must carry the same elements eve have and doesn't mean you should be given a chance to catch up for late joiners (but you STILL can!).

I agree with protoman... the better you play, the faster you skill up. 1 wp = 1 sp after cap is the best way to keep it fun for EVERYONE

Good and bad players aside lets run some basic numbers assuming that 2 players are equal in skill but one can play more.

No SP soft cap:

Casual: @ 2 days a week 6 hours a day(casual might play less)

2000 WP per match: if they hit cap after 8 hours
2000 * 4(matches per hour) = 8000 WP
8000 * 4(hours after hitting cap) = 32000 WP
(Don't forget the booster) 32000 * 1.5 = 48000 SP

Hardcore: @ 5 days a week 4 hours a day(they often play more than this)

2000 WP per match: if they hit cap after 8 hours
2000 * 4(matches per hour) = 8000 WP(same so far)
8000 * 12(hours after hitting cap) = 96000 WP(Wait what?)
(Don't forget the booster) 96000 * 1.5 = 144000 SP(Are you serious?!?!?)

Hardcore - Casual = 96000 SP

1k SP cap per match:

Casual: @ 2 days a week 6 hours a day(casual might play less)

1000 WP per match: if they hit cap after 8 hours
1000 * 5(matches per hour/you can run ambush) = 5000 WP
5000 * 4(hours after hitting cap) = 20000 WP
(Don't forget the booster) 20000 * 1.5 = 30000 SP

Hardcore: @ 5 days a week 4 hours a day(they often play more than this)

1000 WP per match: if they hit cap after 8 hours
1000 * 5(matches per hour/you can run ambush) = 5000 WP(again same so far)
5000 * 12(hours after hitting cap) = 60000(well that still sucks)
(Don't forget the booster) 60000 * 1.5 = 90000 SP

Hardcore - Casual = 60000 SP

It sucks either way because the hardcore player pulls ahead, but at least with that soft cap he/she doesn't pull ahead quite as much. I think I'll go for the one that doesn't suck as bad for everyone besides the minority that has the time to play more.

Both options make life better for "hardcore" players but option 5 makes it just a bit easier on them.

,I honestly think he is trying to get u guys to understand the fps mentality, not just his personal preference. From what I read it may be a moot point because a rolling cap will be in place...now with how slow ccp does things it really may matter...we shall see.