EVE online
yes I know subscription based.

THIS IS WHAT YOU PEOPLE GET for wanting dust to not be like eve(lost steam).

meh what ever as long as it works out to less then my monthly subscription to eve for all three implants.

TLDR.

Increase stupidly small squad size, allow squads of more than 1 into same game.

Forgetting the uvt for a moment, the whole comms set up on this game is crap.

Which is why you never hear any one in game apart from your 3 friends.

EDIT... In fact we only use SKYPE when playing for these reasons. Never done this before in any online game. Right now i have 2 redundant headsets.

This is the worst comms setup, invite / join game / squad / group / add / mail etc I've ever had to use online.

DCUO right? its been a while but i'm pretty sure i could voice chat with my League no matter where any of us are

BTW, i dont care if i'm right or wrong lol just throwing something out there

DCUO right? its been a while but i'm pretty sure i could voice chat with my League no matter where any of us are

BTW, i dont care if i'm right or wrong lol just throwing something out there

Bottom line is, it was free to use before and now we have to pay real money for it. NOBODY should be defending this.

Seriously, you like having to pay money where you did not before? There is no gain here, it's 100% loss.

As for the reasoning about this supporting CCP, I seriously doubt this was even remotely necessary, there is so many other Aurum items on the market that people spend tons of cash on. All this does it give CCP a tiny bit more money and hurt the corps, because not everybody will be able to buy the UVT on a regular basis, or at all.

I for one will likely refuse to ever buy Aurum again because of this. It's a cheap move, plain and simple. Next they are going to start charging AUR to adjust the settings for my controller... or to change the brightness/audio options. Or, how about this, you will have to pay a monthly Aurum fee to use weapons above standard grade. Hey it's still f2p, you just need to use real cash to advance further than standard gear.

Give them an inch, and they WILL take a mile. The more people support this kind of thing, the more CCP will be able to screw us over and get away with it.

Bottom line is, it was free to use before and now we have to pay real money for it. NOBODY should be defending this.

Seriously, you like having to pay money where you did not before? There is no gain here, it's 100% loss.

As for the reasoning about this supporting CCP, I seriously doubt this was even remotely necessary, there is so many other Aurum items on the market that people spend tons of cash on. All this does it give CCP a tiny bit more money and hurt the corps, because not everybody will be able to buy the UVT on a regular basis, or at all.

If you were getting free cable because of a mix-up, and it got fixed, would you complain and demand free cable because you had it before? Same thing here.

Have you even looked into the full details of that side of the argument? It doesn't sound like you have. AUR items are the game's profit, NOT cost-covering tools for the voice chat service which CCP have to pay for. In-game voice, where you're talking to other DUST players in the same battle as you, can be run directly via PSN, and those costs are part of the agreement between Sony and CCP. The corporation chat handles EVE/DUST interaction, which requires it to run via the voice service CCP use for EVE, which they pay for through a third party. That costs money, and the UVT is meant to offset/cover the cost of that service.

It's the principle of the thing that makes this so bad. From what I know, the corp voice has been free since the betas release. Interesting it took them so long to fix something that was likely an easy fix.

Saying it was a glitch/bug is just an escape clause. So when, and if, they do charge for it they can say "Hey look, we said it was a glitch!"

Cost is cost. Whether I buy Aurum for weapons purchases or for the UVT, it all goes to the same place and then gets spent on what needs to be paid out.

And seriously, it's a f2p game, everything they are doing is costing them money. The game engine, any agreements they have with Sony and the PSN, their own ISP and net costs, running and maintaining servers, paying the devs, paying the electric bills etc etc.

You ever wonder why the UVT price for the 1 day, 7 day and 30 day were all the same? You think it was a unintentional glitch? Possibly, but I figure they were testing the players and whether or not people would foolishly buy the 1 day UVT for the same price as the 30 day UVT. They were likely testing the players and their gullibility to fork over the same amount of money for a lesser product. I feel this is not much different, as they are probably seeing if the player base accepts this or not after getting it for free for so long. And if we do accept it, then they know they can do it for other things and get away with it.

I'm just agreeing with everything Garett has said ... he's already made all the points I would have made having read people's objections to the corp chat UVT requirement ... it just wasn't ment to be that way.

But I also agree with Moonracer to a degree, but the problem with his idea is that these AURUM items need to be tested properly aswell, so we can give feedback if they're OP, overpriced, or just unnecessary.

As Garrett has said, we can't say the corp chat UVT requirement is unnecessary ... CCP knows what that mechanic costs them and we've been lucky to have it for free during Codex build. Technically it's still free until release as the AURUM we're spending isn't actually what we've paid for, it's just an opportunity to test what we will spend our AURUM on when we get the proper stuff at release.

businesses don't charge for everything that costs as separate units. What often they do is offer free 'coffee' so you actually enter, stay, and spend more in the shop, covering the cost of the coffee.

The idea in this game is to create a social gaming experience. Voice communication is key - particularly to get new people who wont have invested anything in to it to try it out - it being F2P - and can easily walk away from it with no loss.

other fact is everyone will jkust move to free alternatives or Teamspeak like previous builds. It creates a wall against the social aspect.

Cant be bothered to read the full wall of text by OP, but I think he is in favour of paid UVT. He is wrong in my opinion for the above.

And he asked one game that had clan chat? MAG

Oh and I have UVT

In my opinion the main issue is that there is no option to purchase a corp-wide UVT that is specifically for the Corp Chat channel. If this were available and reasonably priced then many of the problems would be solved. Requiring each individual corp member to purchase a UVT is problematic for a variety of reasons.

Hell MAG didn't even have a clan text chat to communicate.

unless I am mistaken, we could have voice before going into squads and deploying - as a full group. And am pretty sure we could move voice back and forth between choosing squads. Long time since I played but remember listening to everyone in a v large clan before deploying

You make the point that it's the fact that corp chat can crossover to Eve players that is the reason CCP have to use a third party system, costing them money, which we should have to pay for - how about instead of charging Dust players for chatting to other Dust players in their corps, they just make it so you only have to pay to chat between Dust and Eve players? When we eventually get actual full integraton and Eve players are in our teams in actual matches, will we not be able to talk to them on teamchat without UVT?

I totally understand the reasons for changing for UVT....it just needs to have isk variant.

Secondly. I think the issue is they got us hooked on a sweet feature and are now charging for it.

Never the less 10au is not bad for 30 days. They could make it much worse. Isk variant will be nice once implemented. Along with ability for corps to provide the service anyway. Just the cost of maintaining a corp. No difference than current corps/alliances in eve paying for TS or VENT.

Okay if im not mistaken isn't all the AUR you spend the during the closed beta going to be returned to you after the wipe before open beta and/or again before the full game release. If so then everyone complaining needs to STFU.

A 30 day UVT is 10 AUR, that is exactly 1/2 a penny U.S. that mean 1 year will cost you 6cents. And if you we get all our AUR back which i know we do i just cant find the thread from the devs that states it, then its a freaking 6 cent deposit for voice chat for a year. When the game drops you should be able to buy these features with ISK, also we may get a single UVT for all in corp chat so again STFU with you entitlement. Freaking 6 cents!!! really!

Okay if im not mistaken isn't all the AUR you spend the during the closed beta going to be returned to you after the wipe before open beta and/or again before the full game release. If so then everyone complaining needs to STFU.

A 30 day UVT is 10 AUR, that is exactly 1/2 a penny U.S. that mean 1 year will cost you 6cents. And if you we get all our AUR back which i know we do i just cant find the thread from the devs that states it, then its a freaking 6 cent deposit for voice chat for a year. When the game drops you should be able to buy these features with ISK, also we may get a single UVT for all in corp chat so again STFU with you entitlement. Freaking 6 cents!!! really!

You obviously weren't in beta when uvt's were introduced at, if I remember right, at 12,000 aur.

It was not introduced at 1 aur, now 10 aur with restructure.

BTW, that was about $3.00 a month or more just to speak to your corp mates.

F2P......... lol......... Yeah right.

Fair enough but that is what the cost is now it's 10 AUR, and for a 1.99 you can get 4000 AUR. Which will then be refunded back to you on launch and then you can use it to purchase items. I mean a 1.99 deposit is reasonable and not worthy of all the rage. I mean can you really say you will NEVER buy AUR in this game im sure there is something you'd be willing to spend AUR on down the road.

I don't think you understood. We are utilizing the same back end that EVE players utilize. Their cost for the voice comms is incurred in their monthly subs.

We don't have monthly subbs, so we're having to support the feature itself.

And most good clans will probably end up purchasing the UVT for the corp. Whether off the market or out of pocket.

In-game voice, where you're talking to other DUST players in the same battle as you, can be run directly via PSN, and those costs are part of the agreement between Sony and CCP. The corporation chat handles EVE/DUST interaction, which requires it to run via the voice service CCP use for EVE, which they pay for through a third party. That costs money, and the UVT is meant to offset/cover the cost of that service.

Me and plenty of people would spend money on this game, if CCP charged for what people would happily pay for.

I will not pay to talk, whatever the price eventually becomes, and neither will most others.

Consequently a team based game with pay to talk comms is a total fail, how many people do you honestly think will be put off this game when they realise this?.

A lot don't come close btw.

I used to let it bother me how dumb people were and would try and enlighten them like Garrett is attempting.

Now I just read dumb posts and move along like they don' exists. It makes the forums much more enjoyable.

You Can't Fix Stupid

It isn't pay to talk comms, You get free comm for team/squad chat which is exactly what you get in EVERY PS3 game out there that you will pay $60 for. Comms for Corp was not meant to be free and shouldn't be free it is not a feature you find in any other PS game because it doesn't exist. Add to it that it allows for chat not only Dust side but EVE as well means it working on the EVE comm channel which they do in fact pay for.

Of course all they need to do is make sure the default options on voice chat are set to on with PTT to off and people will instantly recognize that they do in deed support free comms.


Also there will be a ISK option for this feature and supposedly a one for all corp wide option.

Point is corp chat for free was nice but not intentional and not a right but a privilege. It isn't a feature you find in any other game and it shouldnt be a standard option for us just because we like it or feel entitled to it.

Yup that's right it's free (as it bloody should be btw) for FOUR people !

Or, oh yes, you can also talk to a load of random cretins on your team, who don't even know you have to set talk to ON.

Fantastic, how could anyone not think comms on this game isn't the best ever. lol. stfu.

Like it is in EVERY game!!! Get over it you're just mad because a shiny unintentional feature has been fixed. Why don't you go complain to the devs of other games about this since they all function identically in how they handle comms

You obviously weren't in beta when uvt's were introduced at, if I remember right, at 12,000 aur.

It was not introduced at 1 aur, now 10 aur with restructure.

BTW, that was about $3.00 a month or more just to speak to your corp mates.

F2P......... lol......... Yeah right.

MAG..............

8 Man squads.

Clan deploy.

OIC Comms with 256 people.

PL comms with OIC, his platoon and or squad leaders.

Squad leaders with PL and OIC and squad.

Oh and also proxy chat with friend and enemy too.



Now stfu.

Fair enough but that is what the cost is now it's 10 AUR, and for a 1.99 you can get 4000 AUR. Which will then be refunded back to you on launch and then you can use it to purchase items. I mean a 1.99 deposit is reasonable and not worthy of all the rage. I mean can you really say you will NEVER buy AUR in this game im sure there is something you'd be willing to spend AUR on down the road.

They're only that cheap for the beta- once launch comes UVT's will be expensive again.

But final pricing is currently yet to be determined, so "expensive" is a relative term, and probably won't see them going up to the price they were on their initial release.

did you ever get into chromosome garret?

After a delete and re-download of the client, yeah. I'm up and running again.

And back on-topic (sort of) again... I'm not arguing that the current state of the beta is the right time for the current version of UVTs to be required for corp chat. I'm not even arguing that the UVTs we have now are the best option for corp voice chat. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been better if CCP released a corp-wide UVT-equivalent before springing this on us. I'm not saying that corp voice isn't a useful tool. I'm pointing out that it's NOT "needed" for people to play, or even to play well and coordinate. It's NOT pay-to-win, and it's NOT something that "every other game" has as a standard feature. Without paying ANYTHING, you can still chat with your squad AND the whole team freely (more freely than you can in MAG, actually).

When the player market is up and running, UVTs will be purchased with ISK by some players. If and when there's a corp-wide UVT item, there will be a way for the corp to provide voice comms to the whole corp quickly and easily. If they don't release such an item, UVTs will still be possible to trade from one corp member to another - either free if the player is willing, or at a great discount from the normal market value. It's highly likely that, if a corp UVT item doesn't eventually appear, some corporations will have a "stock" of UVTs provided by their CEO and/or Director(s) and issued to ALL corp members to enable voice comms.

Bottom line is, it was free to use before and now we have to pay real money for it. NOBODY should be defending this.

Seriously, you like having to pay money where you did not before? There is no gain here, it's 100% loss.

As for the reasoning about this supporting CCP, I seriously doubt this was even remotely necessary, there is so many other Aurum items on the market that people spend tons of cash on. All this does it give CCP a tiny bit more money and hurt the corps, because not everybody will be able to buy the UVT on a regular basis, or at all.

I for one will likely refuse to ever buy Aurum again because of this. It's a cheap move, plain and simple. Next they are going to start charging AUR to adjust the settings for my controller... or to change the brightness/audio options. Or, how about this, you will have to pay a monthly Aurum fee to use weapons above standard grade. Hey it's still f2p, you just need to use real cash to advance further than standard gear.

Give them an inch, and they WILL take a mile. The more people support this kind of thing, the more CCP will be able to screw us over and get away with it.

You obviously weren't in beta when uvt's were introduced at, if I remember right, at 12,000 aur.

It was not introduced at 1 aur, now 10 aur with restructure.

BTW, that was about $3.00 a month or more just to speak to your corp mates.

F2P......... lol......... Yeah right.

having free voice comms will ensure that no one has to put any money down to enjoy its full features.

And how would CCP or SONY makeup the initial investment costs, marketing costs, server costs (battleservers), voicecomms, further development costs, etc... Just alone with cosmetic items? I heavily doubt that.

And would you think that EVE side players are content of us freeriding on their side? Leetching from their sub money to non-spaceship things?

And how would CCP or SONY makeup the initial investment costs, marketing costs, server costs (battleservers), voicecomms, further development costs, etc... Just alone with cosmetic items? I heavily doubt that.

And would you think that EVE side players are content of us freeriding on their side? Leetching from their sub money to non-spaceship things?

Then they should of just charged for the game, which I would of bought like any other game I've paid for.
Instead of saying it's free to play, maybe they should be saying, it's free to download, but we're gonna charge for everything we can think of, once you've downloaded it, and eventually we'll have gotten a ton of money off you doing it like the good old UK stealth tax way.

I can easily afford this, but I will not pay for it.

Here have a FREE car. Just give me -ú30,000 for the registration and it's all yours for FREE.

lol. gtfo.

Are you new to F2P model? It's how it works. Also they don't charge for everything, that's important. At the moment I think that the number of paid features is too low for the project to survive. However I'm not pro in this aspect, CCP knows this better.

Are you new to F2P model? It's how it works. Also they don't charge for everything, that's important. At the moment I think that the number of paid features is too low for the project to survive. However I'm not pro in this aspect, CCP knows this better.

I really don't get why you think that listing other games that don't have this feature is even remotely relevant. Just because they don't do it, doesn't mean they're doing it right or best. After DCUO this is the only true attempt at an MMO on the PS3 and SEO obviously thought it important enough to include league wide chat for free.

You can't use corp chat in all those other games because organizing as a corp is not important outside of each individual match. In Dust (though it's not really important yet) it will be important to organize as a corp before setting up for attacks on other's territories or defending large scale attacks or whatever happens when we get full use of the star map and all that stuff.

As has already been stated this game will survive on the social scene that players can interact with and having free voice comms will ensure that no one has to put any money down to enjoy its full features. Even though it's free to play, people will still be loathed to pay even a tiny amount for any feature that will only enhance their social interaction.

How many times do people have to point out that WE ALREADY HAVE FREE VOICE COMMS WHERE IT MATTERS?

Isk alternatives? Who cares. The point is new players who have no investment in this game will just shrug shoulders not hear anyone and leave. One notable forum warrior left his first corp because they were on Teamspeak and couldn't hear anyone. He went to a new one (not ours). he has stuck around cause he wants to play this game even in this beta environment, what do you think those that are just loking will do?

Corp chat matters (I dont care about Eve/ Dust corp chat if that is what it can do) let UVT pay for that -everyone will just use teamspeak anyway. Corps are a key mechanic for this game to succeed.

And at OP the corp chat in MAG worked for me with 128 players - we could speak to everyone. In game I would much prefer MAGs voice comms to be honest (much more sensible) - than hearing everyone talk over each other, which we have now. And your challenge was met by DCUO on your own requirements (i think MAG met them). Also as a previous poster said who cares about what other games did. Thats irrelevant.

NO WE DONT - caps effect cause apparently it will help get a point across...

So a guy joined a corp, and the corp CEO or a Director accepted his application, but didn't explain that the team wasn't using Corp chat or provide the relevant information about how to access voice (or other) comms with corpmates? That doesn't sound like a problem with the game to me. That sounds like a valid reason not to be in that corp. People who suck at communicating won't suck significantly less just because you give them better tools.

And I already addressed my mistake with DCUO and added another 5 games to my counter-list. But MAG still doesn't fit the required criteria.

How many times do people have to point out that WE ALREADY HAVE FREE VOICE COMMS WHERE IT MATTERS?

And how many times do people have to point out that WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SELL AND BUY UVTS WITH ISK?

If a person (male or female) joins a corp and cant hear anyone s/he leaves. If this a new person who is trying Dust out they leave, and they can leave the game with no loss of investment apart from time. We want them to stay

You set the criteria and it was met by DCUO - your challenge was met. So you lost your own challenge.

But as I say, and someone above, any other game is irrelevant to this discussion. We are not talking about what others are/ have done but what Dust should do.

look, we clearly disagree, but caps dont help when discussing things. (Just seen your above post. Still think Caps means SHOUTING)

Read the first post, skipped the rest.

Don't have a game, but I have a system feature: XBox 360 and its party feature. As long as I am a part of the party, I can talk to up to 6 people across different games and activities. Good for a small squad/corp I suppose

Say what you want, twist what you want, IDC.

This is the worst comms setup, invite / join game / squad / group / add / mail etc I've ever had to use online.

Which is why we don't, we did FYI try to use them when we started months ago, now we just don't really bother.

So charge away CCP, there are always idiots who'll pay. Ask Mr imbango care of. Bank of Nigeria.

2 dollars........ 2 dollars is all you need to buy enough UVT's for life. like seriously are you really that broke??

2 dollars........ 2 dollars is all you need to buy enough UVT's for life. like seriously are you really that broke??

So if i'm reading all this correctly, this item people are arguing about costs 10 AUR? Oh no.

I'm sure by now there has been "It's the principle." or something similar. Just let them be defenders of justice. Some people will buy it, some people won't. Not much anybody can do about it, what with all the online voice chat options.

EVE online
yes I know subscription based.

THIS IS WHAT YOU PEOPLE GET for wanting dust to not be like eve(lost steam).

meh what ever as long as it works out to less then my monthly subscription to eve for all three implants.

tl;dr

Just because other games suck doesn't mean DUST should have to follow suit. Give us our corp voice back.

This x1000

In a large scale team based MMO that will require heavy coordination to win, you will have to pay for corp chat?
Alliance chat, that I can see being charged for, but corp chat?

No, no no and no.

I can just as easily go to TS3 for free (almost) and get that functionality.

In fact, the ENTIRE voice chat/chain of command needs an overhaul.

Stop kissing CCP's butt

I don't think having corp chat require UVTs was a good decision with the way the current build works

Saying that large-scale coordination outside of the team you're in battle with is unnecessary is simply wrong, in such an obvious way that I don't even need to argue it.

This is the chiefest of concerns for all of the corporations involved in this fiasco. This decision isn't just not good, it's worse than bad. One of the features that I've heralded far and wide to friends, one of the features that makes the game exponentially more entertaining for any member of an organized corp, is gone.

This entire thread is in the wrong tone and might lead CCP to believe that they can delay on implementing corp UVT features, and even seems to argue that the corp UVT situation isn't particularly severe. Someone might even think that a corp UVT is unnecessary, when in fact it's one of the most essential pieces of functionality that CCP can include with Dust 514.

If you don't like the point but agree with the idea, you're doing a great job making an inconsequential point overshadow the true issue.

Well, admittedly I'm ignorant of popular social culture when it comes to online games as this is the first online game I've ever played so, to add my two cents, I downloaded this game not knowing anyone who either plays or played Eve and/or Dust. So after downloading the game back in August I had to try and figure this whole hot mess out myself. At some point within a week or two I read something that said the UVT was needed for everything outside of battle (however it was stated). Whether that was in game or on the forums I don't remember. The point is it was out there, perhaps it wasn't easy to find or it was oddly worded but it was there. I had no idea that corp chat was free, whether by bug or design, as I thought a UVT was needed for ANYTHING outside of battle. Perhaps this whole problem could've been mitigated with clearer explanations of the communication system. I don't know. I do know that CCP has the right to change things as they see fit without warning or notice as is stated in the EULA or terms and conditions or wherever that is. I do think that a Corp level UVT should be a purchasable item by both Aurum and ISK however.
I know it's not on target for the challenge Garrett, my apologies for that.

TL;DR - This is where the problem is.