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SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2012.10.07 00:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:Based on your answer, you didn't try to run and change direction at full sprint, and I'm telling you that you can't. My point has everything to do with the issue of strafing, which was quite impossible in the realm of physics. No valid reason to disagree? You just lost my respect for this conversation, as no matter what you think, people ALWAYS have different opinions, and mine opposes yours, this is perfectly valid. Vain and foolish don't describe what I said, and was quite arbitrary, soooo...I don't really know what to say to that. yes you can run at full speed and do so at a slight angle. i do it in real life and I know don't know why you keep mentioning physics to me. I am a physics major and can not see your point.
Its not as if anyone was ever sprinting sideways, they just had a little wiggle room so they could run in a zig zag pattern before. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
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Posted - 2012.10.07 00:57:00 -
[32] - Quote
They gave Valor the scout suit........so what do you think? |
Logi Bro
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
836
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 00:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:Logi Bro wrote:Based on your answer, you didn't try to run and change direction at full sprint, and I'm telling you that you can't. My point has everything to do with the issue of strafing, which was quite impossible in the realm of physics. No valid reason to disagree? You just lost my respect for this conversation, as no matter what you think, people ALWAYS have different opinions, and mine opposes yours, this is perfectly valid. Vain and foolish don't describe what I said, and was quite arbitrary, soooo...I don't really know what to say to that. yes you can run at full speed and do so at a slight angle. i do it in real life and I know don't know why you keep mentioning physics to me. I am a physics major and can not see your point. Its not as if anyone was ever sprinting sideways, they just had a little wiggle room so they could run in a zig zag pattern before.
...I'm not saying you can't run sideways, I'm saying you can't run sideways then instantly run sideways in the opposite direction and maintain all your speed. I'm not a physics major, but momentum prevents this from being possible. |
Doc Quimm
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.10.07 00:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
RolyatDerTeufel wrote:I believe it is currently.
Speed tanking isn't there like before. Shield regen requires multiple Regulators to start our passive shield tanking..
And it's fairly difficult to get shield management to increase base Shield. Extenders are obvious fit on scouts.
But many of the things the scout had going has been taken from it. stfu... those scouts are still impossible to hit! Feckin ballet dancing, bullet dodging, shotgun wielding basa's!!! |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
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Posted - 2012.10.07 01:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Doc Quimm wrote:RolyatDerTeufel wrote:I believe it is currently.
Speed tanking isn't there like before. Shield regen requires multiple Regulators to start our passive shield tanking..
And it's fairly difficult to get shield management to increase base Shield. Extenders are obvious fit on scouts.
But many of the things the scout had going has been taken from it. stfu... those scouts are still impossible to hit! Feckin ballet dancing, bullet dodging, shotgun wielding basa's!!!
They are 2nd easiest to hit other then heavy. can't dance anymore... Can't dodge where your oppenent is aiming ( you don't dodge the bullets you dodge their aim) And shotguns are seen as much that i've noticed. |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 01:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
SILENTSAM 69 wrote:Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:SILENTSAM 69 wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:I just have a question to add to the thread.
What can scouts do that assault suits can't to the same or near same effectiveness? Nothing, and that is the problem. The Scout use to start recharging shield quickly, then they lost that. The Scouts use to be able to dance and move quickly to avoid getting shot, but they lost that. The Scout is supposed to be harder to detect, and it isn't. The Scout is supposed to be able to detect people better, it isn't. The Scout suit was ruined in this build because the decided to listen to the crowd that cried when shooting at a moving target. There was NEVER a reason to reduce strafing, expect to appease those who can not shoot. And there was never a reason to nerf the heavy, except to appease people who couldnt be bothered to attack outside of the heavies streghts, there was never a reason to nerf the tank,except to appease people who wanted to kill them without being dedicated anti armour characters At least the strafe nerf was based on a real issue with hit detection we still dont know if the game could be this solid running on last builds speed or even if maybe the scout was still > assult who know all we know this has happened the same as the others and id say this was more justified than the other nerfs There wanst a reason to nerf the heavy. You are right. They never should have. The tanks had a known issue where the mods were being stacked in a way they did not intend. The hit detection and frame rate issues where a problem, but not the Strafing. Once the hit detection and frame rate was fixed there was no need for a strafing nerf.
Yes good point i forgot about the lack of stack penelty you have me there,
I just had a thought (the horrors) what will be the next big nerf so far its been heavy, breach, tank, scout whats next?? my guess is AR theres alot of saying its op when there is onlyrealy one thing wrong the lack of/non egxistant recoil should be fun to think about |
Madison Four
57
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Posted - 2012.10.07 01:07:00 -
[37] - Quote
Yes, the Scout suit is worthless.
its only, sole, main, primary purpose was taken away by the lowering of the strafe speed.
You can't circle-strafe around everything with a smg or shottie anymore. well, I mean you CAN, but it isn't as easy as it used to be.
that was the only thing it was designed for. |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 01:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:SILENTSAM 69 wrote:Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:SILENTSAM 69 wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:I just have a question to add to the thread.
What can scouts do that assault suits can't to the same or near same effectiveness? Nothing, and that is the problem. The Scout use to start recharging shield quickly, then they lost that. The Scouts use to be able to dance and move quickly to avoid getting shot, but they lost that. The Scout is supposed to be harder to detect, and it isn't. The Scout is supposed to be able to detect people better, it isn't. The Scout suit was ruined in this build because the decided to listen to the crowd that cried when shooting at a moving target. There was NEVER a reason to reduce strafing, expect to appease those who can not shoot. And there was never a reason to nerf the heavy, except to appease people who couldnt be bothered to attack outside of the heavies streghts, there was never a reason to nerf the tank,except to appease people who wanted to kill them without being dedicated anti armour characters At least the strafe nerf was based on a real issue with hit detection we still dont know if the game could be this solid running on last builds speed or even if maybe the scout was still > assult who know all we know this has happened the same as the others and id say this was more justified than the other nerfs There wanst a reason to nerf the heavy. You are right. They never should have. The tanks had a known issue where the mods were being stacked in a way they did not intend. The hit detection and frame rate issues where a problem, but not the Strafing. Once the hit detection and frame rate was fixed there was no need for a strafing nerf. Yes good point i forgot about the lack of stack penelty you have me there, I just had a thought (the horrors) what will be the next big nerf so far its been heavy, breach, tank, scout whats next?? my guess is AR theres alot of saying its op when there is onlyrealy one thing wrong the lack of/non egxistant recoil should be fun to think about
AR's hit more regularly now so they seem more powerful, and TAR ( tactical assault rifle ) is broken being automatic. So i could see them being nerfed a tiny bit, hopefully nowhere near as bad as all their nerfs so far... |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
810
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 01:18:00 -
[39] - Quote
Madison Four wrote:Yes, the Scout suit is worthless.
its only, sole, main, primary purpose was taken away by the lowering of the strafe speed.
You can't circle-strafe around everything with a smg or shottie anymore. well, I mean you CAN, but it isn't as easy as it used to be.
that was the only thing it was designed for.
So, if it's not supposed to be FASTER, what exactly WAS it designed for again? |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 01:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
RolyatDerTeufel wrote:
AR's hit more regularly now so they seem more powerful, and TAR ( tactical assault rifle ) is broken being automatic. So i could see them being nerfed a tiny bit, hopefully nowhere near as bad as all their nerfs so far...
Aye thats has me thinking AR is a staple weapon and has to be up to par if it is made FUBAR then i have no idea how this game keep its gunplay alive, as weve seen CCP likes to fix all possible issues such as nerf to heavy and the HMG, nerf to tank and boost to AV, and now Strafe nerf + hit detection fix, the AR is being accused of being too accurate, to ranged,to little recoil, to much damage, to high rof and so if we get a traditional update AR is rightly screwed donno why this dawns on me in the middle of this discussioon
Back on topic Scout suit being usless or not sorry about that lads, as far as i can tell as it stands its strengs stands for nothing soid suggest having scan res and sig radious being more useful perhaps having them being the main method of contributing to TAC net and also getting rewarded for it, also mabye some varients like assasin and sniper roles for the scout suit which would have bonuses to help them in there bonus.
I do not believe that scouts going toe to toe with assults head on was ever working as intended despite ability to shoot |
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Madison Four
57
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Posted - 2012.10.07 01:23:00 -
[41] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Madison Four wrote:Yes, the Scout suit is worthless.
its only, sole, main, primary purpose was taken away by the lowering of the strafe speed.
You can't circle-strafe around everything with a smg or shottie anymore. well, I mean you CAN, but it isn't as easy as it used to be.
that was the only thing it was designed for. So, if it's not supposed to be FASTER, what exactly WAS it designed for again?
I will answer this question in a new thread. It's a very long answer. |
HK-40
120
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 01:24:00 -
[42] - Quote
Madison Four wrote:Yes, the Scout suit is worthless.
its only, sole, main, primary purpose was taken away by the lowering of the strafe speed.
You can't circle-strafe around everything with a smg or shottie anymore. well, I mean you CAN, but it isn't as easy as it used to be.
that was the only thing it was designed for.
Lower signature radius (stealth) and faster running speed. Both are very useful. It was never intended for front line combat.
If you are an EvE player, its a Stealth Bomber, not a Battlecruiser. |
Doc Quimm
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 01:25:00 -
[43] - Quote
hold on a minute... i thought the sole purpose of a scout was stealth, infiltration and sabotage... not whole team who zip about like Speedy Gonzales on Meth!
I call for restrictions on teams, sure... make a squad of scouts but then the other squads in your team are then unable to have a scout because they are all in your squad, the same should apply all classes except assault class (they are the base cannon fodder after all).
I hope that makes sense.... a little too much Stella tonight!! lol |
RolyatDerTeufel
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
1648
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 01:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:RolyatDerTeufel wrote:
AR's hit more regularly now so they seem more powerful, and TAR ( tactical assault rifle ) is broken being automatic. So i could see them being nerfed a tiny bit, hopefully nowhere near as bad as all their nerfs so far...
Aye thats has me thinking AR is a staple weapon and has to be up to par if it is made FUBAR then i have no idea how this game keep its gunplay alive, as weve seen CCP likes to fix all possible issues such as nerf to heavy and the HMG, nerf to tank and boost to AV, and now Strafe nerf + hit detection fix, the AR is being accused of being too accurate, to ranged,to little recoil, to much damage, to high rof and so if we get a traditional update AR is rightly screwed donno why this dawns on me in the middle of this discussioon Back on topic Scout suit being usless or not sorry about that lads, as far as i can tell as it stands its strengs stands for nothing soid suggest having scan res and sig radious being more useful perhaps having them being the main method of contributing to TAC net and also getting rewarded for it, also mabye some varients like assasin and sniper roles for the scout suit which would have bonuses to help them in there bonus. I do not believe that scouts going toe to toe with assults head on was ever working as intended despite ability to shoot
Role bonuses would change the way all the suits are played tbh. |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
126
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 01:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
Baal Roo wrote:Madison Four wrote:Yes, the Scout suit is worthless.
its only, sole, main, primary purpose was taken away by the lowering of the strafe speed.
You can't circle-strafe around everything with a smg or shottie anymore. well, I mean you CAN, but it isn't as easy as it used to be.
that was the only thing it was designed for. So, if it's not supposed to be FASTER, what exactly WAS it designed for again?
It is faster at sprinting and base movement just not by as much as it was, but iam guessing here but by the name iam going to say it was probably designed for scouting or recon basicly the gathering of intel most other suits seem to do what it says on the tin so i doubht this one is any different, i guess on another note should a logi be able to kill assults with ease?? same deal as the scout its not a combat specialist it can be made combat version but wont excell asmuch as a assult same as a assult cant scout aswell as a scout or cant provide support as well as a logi then why should they be as good in combatits all trade offs mate |
Doc Quimm
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 01:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
Scouts = Stealth...
They were nerfed because of the proliferation of hit detection abusers in the last build, rightly so.
They are now the invisible warriors they were always supposed to be, off the radar, deadly sabatours.
Beware.. players will soon get to grips with these demons...
Auto detonate RE's on roads, fast hack, profile dampners, sensor enhancments and what's that... oh! It's a Nova Knife sticking through your chest....
Sneaky stealthy buggers... mark my words, mark my .... ugh... what's that.....? |
Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 03:55:00 -
[47] - Quote
Doc Quimm wrote:Scouts = Stealth...
They were nerfed because of the proliferation of hit detection abusers in the last build, rightly so.
They are now the invisible warriors they were always supposed to be, off the radar, deadly sabatours.
Beware.. players will soon get to grips with these demons...
Auto detonate RE's on roads, fast hack, profile dampners, sensor enhancments and what's that... oh! It's a Nova Knife sticking through your chest....
Sneaky stealthy buggers... mark my words, mark my .... ugh... what's that.....?
Uhh... what? Hit detection abusers were abusing hit detection. When that was fixed, had the scout been left alone, they wouldn't have been able to abuse it any more. Instead, CCP nerfed the scout suit and fixed hit detection (which is good, btw, I'm glad they did), which ended up making the scout pointless.
Not to mention they have yet to give the scout the tools the suit needs to actually fill, what I think, is the actual role of the scout: stealth and recon. Lower sig profile is nice (and hard to quantify, because I haven't noticed a difference with my assault suit), but it's not exactly recon or sabotage friendly.
I don't care about strafing. But the people on here talking about how the scout suit is faster- it's less than 10% faster than the assault. And yet it has 2/3 of the CPU, PG, and hit points. That's math, people.
And the other "bonuses" of a scout suit have been nerfed, as another poster pointed out (copied and modified):
The Scout use to start recharging shield quickly, then they lost that. The Scouts use to be able to sprint much faster than all other suits, and they lost that (see 10% above) The Scout is supposed to be harder to detect, and it isn't. The Scout is supposed to be able to detect people better, it isn't.
I have yet to see a reasonable and convincing argument as to how the scout suit, as currently constructed, is not worthless.
If they add cloaking, then the suit might be valuable. Until then, it's a waste of money. |
Crimson MoonV
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
658
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 04:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
ccp has stated that scouts should be able spin around heavies. It goes hand in hand with the perfect imbalance rock paper scissors aspect of the game. Yet they nerf strafe speed?
Heavies>scout
Assault>scout
Where the perfect imbalance ccp? |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 04:16:00 -
[49] - Quote
I ran with both a scout and an assault suit today, giving each one 50 suits til I dropped to zero. What I found is that the scout suits speed bonus over the assault can be completely disregarded, I raced a buddy of mine today. I was in scout, he was in assault and both of us were carrying assault rifles. By the time a ran out of stamina I was only a few meters ahead of him.
The only real advantages I found in the scout were I higher jump and slightly better turning speed( which does make a difference when it comes to sniping or using the shotgun in close quarters imo). Unfortunately I can't test the effectiveness of the dropsuit signature between the scout and the assault, but I assume it does make a difference when going around corners or being seen from a distance.
Overall in my opinion the scout suit doesn't have enough of an advantage over the assaults hp until we get more stealth mods in. I can preform all the scouts tasks when it comes to flanking, sniping, and cqc with the shotgun while I'm in an assault to the same effectiveness, and I even have a higher chance of survival when I'm detected.
Again though there is still more to come and we will have to see if the scouts match the other suits when cloaking comes out. I recommend other people to run an assault and treat it as a scout suit to see what there opinion on it is, maybe you will come up with something different than me. At has been stated by ccp that the scout will balance itself out with more maneuverability than other suits, but sadly I do not see it. |
Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 04:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:I ran with both a scout and an assault suit today, giving each one 50 suits til I dropped to zero. What I found is that the scout suits speed bonus over the assault can be completely disregarded, I raced a buddy of mine today. I was in scout, he was in assault and both of us were carrying assault rifles. By the time a ran out of stamina I was only a few meters ahead of him.
The only real advantages I found in the scout were I higher jump and slightly better turning speed( which does make a difference when it comes to sniping or using the shotgun in close quarters imo). Unfortunately I can't test the effectiveness of the dropsuit signature between the scout and the assault, but I assume it does make a difference when going around corners or being seen from a distance.
Overall in my opinion the scout suit doesn't have enough of an advantage over the assaults hp until we get more stealth mods in. I can preform all the scouts tasks when it comes to flanking, sniping, and cqc with the shotgun while I'm in an assault to the same effectiveness, and I even have a higher chance of survival when I'm detected.
Again though there is still more to come and we will have to see if the scouts match the other suits when cloaking comes out. I recommend other people to run an assault and treat it as a scout suit to see what there opinion on it is, maybe you will come up with something different than me. At has been stated by ccp that the scout will balance itself out with more maneuverability than other suits, but sadly I do not see it.
This is what I've been saying. I've been in an assault suit, and it's worked much better than the scout for whatever role I enjoy performing. Sniping? Assault is better. Sneaking up to an objective? Assault is better (if I'm spotted I have a much higher chance of survival instead of dying before I can turn around).
I've also been mentioning the speed on the other threads. I've run to objectives next to assault guys, and I barely win. They're with me almost step for step. It's silly.
That being said, your points about cloaking and things to come (hopefully) are right. But in terms of speed, the scout's "advantage" is so miniscule it's barely noticeable. |
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Madison Four
57
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Posted - 2012.10.07 04:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
Playing with am Amarr Scout now.
I am seeing that I have enough speed to disengage a firefight. but not enough speed to stay in one. that of course, would be the Strafing speed nerf.
so if I go head up with someone, it is mostly flee or die, or at least flee to a better position to get the jump on him.
I've escaped near-certain death several times on this map by sprinting and knowing the terrain.
I feel dirty using the AR in my scout suit, but it's the far and away best weapon in the game at this point.
haven't had a good chance to try out the Nova Knives, haven't yet gotten close enough to someone. |
Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 04:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
Madison Four wrote:Playing with am Amarr Scout now.
I am seeing that I have enough speed to disengage a firefight. but not enough speed to stay in one. that of course, would be the Strafing speed nerf.
so if I go head up with someone, it is mostly flee or die, or at least flee to a better position to get the jump on him.
I've escaped near-certain death several times on this map by sprinting and knowing the terrain.
I feel dirty using the AR in my scout suit, but it's the far and away best weapon in the game at this point.
haven't had a good chance to try out the Nova Knives, haven't yet gotten close enough to someone.
Yup. And you can do all of that just as easily with an assault suit. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
132
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 05:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Scouts can fill some gimp roles like a runner with MD - enough to vex and distract enemy but not enough to kill - fire a few shots, get a small amount of splash damage on the enemy and keep running. You will outrun their fire, while they are distracted by you, your squad can kill them easier.
I know what you are thinking - this is very situational and never happens in real games. I tried this and this is the only tactic that worked for me more or less as a scout. I noticed that scouts bring a degree of disorientation into enemy ranks because the enemy do try to chase you but unless you engage them, you actually most of the time successfully run away. Meanwhile the rest of the squad can take advantage of the fact that the enemy is somewhat disoriented and becomes more exposed to their fire by chasing a scout. So that's one role - to vex the enemy and it's a useful role; albeit not very satisfying as you are not really making kills.
Another possible role is running at the edge of the map and ambushing ppl from behind - you are fast enough to skeak up on them and you sig is lower making it easier - works best on crowded maps where it's easier to ambush ppl, obviously.
Overall, of course, now scouts are much less versatile and there are very few tactics that would give scout an advantage - assault does almost everything better. |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
326
|
Posted - 2012.10.07 06:34:00 -
[54] - Quote
I heard that Scout suit will be specialized with cloaking capabilities in later builds. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 05:42:00 -
[55] - Quote
Actually, I have noticed that scouts have a considerable bonus to lowering sniper scope sway, although this only helps in mid-range to close quarters and still doesn't make much of a difference at long range imo. |
GOLD LEAD3R
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.10.08 16:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Actually, I have noticed that scouts have a considerable bonus to lowering sniper scope sway, although this only helps in mid-range to close quarters and still doesn't make much of a difference at long range imo.
Haven't noticed that. Interesting.
Yeah, I agree with the scout being useless now. Because of it, I started running a logi. Been kind of fun, but I would prefer the sneaking/infiltration role. Hope CCP has those cloaking mods cooking for us... |
Shiro Mokuzan
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
106
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 17:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Scouts were never intended to be for frontline head-to-head combat. Fast strafing made them too good at that. They're still perfectly good at their intended role.
Also circle-strafing is silly and has no place in this game. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 17:31:00 -
[58] - Quote
Shiro Mokuzan wrote:Scouts were never intended to be for frontline head-to-head combat. Fast strafing made them too good at that. They're still perfectly good at their intended role.
Also circle-strafing is silly and has no place in this game. It is in the description of the scout suit that they are supposed to be fast movers as well as stealthy, right now they are barely faster than assault suits. Yes, circle strafing is ridiculous that's why turning speed should be turned up to compensate. |
D3LTA L3AD3R
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2012.10.08 18:02:00 -
[59] - Quote
they are completely useless. CCP is nerfing anything in this game that gives FPS gamers an advantage, because their precious EVE players cant hang with us. what game on earth would nerf strafe speed and make it different than forward/backward movement? they are making it easier to kill, just like with the aim assist. I ran a scout suit for 3 builds, and did keep a low profile and use it the way it was intended. It's worthless in this build. since they added all the modules and skills to help make yourself more invisible, you can run assault and get the same effect, and be able to take more than 3 shots and live. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 18:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
D3LTA L3AD3R wrote:they are completely useless. CCP is nerfing anything in this game that gives FPS gamers an advantage, because their precious EVE players cant hang with us. what game on earth would nerf strafe speed and make it different than forward/backward movement? they are making it easier to kill, just like with the aim assist. I ran a scout suit for 3 builds, and did keep a low profile and use it the way it was intended. It's worthless in this build. since they added all the modules and skills to help make yourself more invisible, you can run assault and get the same effect, and be able to take more than 3 shots and live. Ya they are. I am hoping for some improvement with any bonuses they will have to stealth mods an electronic warfare, but not to good of an improvement, always want to avoid the gaze of the nerf hammer overlord. |
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