To add insult to injury they ruined the SMG by switching the skill DMG bonus for the kick back bonus. I use to love using the SMG as my main weapon, but now I have to use this damn AR.

There shouldn't be *any* way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots.

Still a little more strafing speed would be nice. Now the winner of a 1v1 is based purely on positioning and whoever pulls the trigger first.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Shooting first and having the better position is what FPS is supposed to be about. Why are you complaining?

There shouldn't be *any* way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots.

I just don't like the helplessness of moving like a bloated turtle so anyone can keep there gun on you while they shoot, no skill required. Scout suit is useless and if your getting shot in the back, thanks to no turning speed, you have next to no chance surviving.

its a video game
an unrealistic video
in an unrealistic game video
chill Sergeant Realism not everything has to be "real"

I would say that "moving like a bloated turtle" is somewhat of an overstatement. Besides, like I said before, if you have a better position and shoot first, you should die, especially if your opponent moves as slowly as you say. And if you're stuck in a bad situation, then you can treat your inevitable death as a learning experience, because now you know not to do whatever it was you just did which got you killed. As for getting shot in the back, I would say the best way to avoid that is to check the minimap regularly and to travel with a squad.

Besides, most snipers use the Scout suit, if I'm not mistaken. And I saw quite a few running around with shotguns yesterday. So your point about them being useless really doesn't make sense.

Yes I have seen those scout suits as well and they are killed almost effortlessly. And now in this game player skill is not rewarded, now its blob warfare and OBs. It takes no skill what so ever to target someone and lay on a stream of damage so now the only solution seems to be playing peek-a-boo from behind cover.

DUST 514, were players expect other players to stand still and not move while getting shot. Enlist today bruh.

Apparently some folks didn't get the memo that strafing and jumping are dead and you aren't allowed to do them anymore.

I think it is fairly obvious, based on how most players react to getting shot at, that a lot of players expected this game to be more like Halo than it actually is.

kinda funny watching people in Assault suits immediately start jumping like Kriss Kross as soon as the first bullet hits them.

Who said I was talking about realism? I'm saying that if you happen upon an enemy, you should be able to shoot at him without having to compensate for his ability to move faster than a rabbit on caffeine. I mean really, these are clones in heavy armor, I don't think they should be able to to moonwalk and jump around their opponents willy nilly. Is it too much to ask for a shooter based on your ability to find a good firing spot? Or do we all need a special "get out of danger" button because we don't like dying?

I never really understood the argument for the inclusion of bunny-hopping and high strafe speeds anyways.

There shouldn't be *any* way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots.

There's a difference between moving to avoid getting shot and running circles around your opponent. I'm all for sprinting to cover or adjusting my position for a better shot.

EDIT: Still, an enemy standing still while I shoot them does sound nice. Feel free to try it

I don't understand what you're trying to say. Shooting first and having the better position is what FPS is supposed to be about. Why are you complaining?

I'm really having trouble following your logic here.

First you say scout suits get killed easily. But if they get killed so easily, people wouldn't use them. And yet, we've both said we've seen people using them. Why would people continue using something you say is worthless?

I'm also not understanding how there's no skill involved in this game. Isn't aiming well and quickly a skill? What about knowing which fights to jump into and which to run away from? How to attack an objective? Just because the skillsets may differ doesn't mean there's no skill involved. And FYI, what you call blob warfare I call team-based combat ;)

EDIT: I'd also like to repeat myself in saying that I'm having trouble understanding exactly *why* it is you're complaining. FPS is based on advantageous positioning and skill with aiming and firing a variety of weapons, not "who-can-dodge-the-most-incoming-fire."

There was a difference to moving to avoid getting shot. That was nerfed though because players lacked gun game and had to ask the Devs to a hold their hands. Silly willy.

There was a difference to moving to avoid getting shot. That was nerfed though because players lacked gun game and had to ask the Devs to a hold their hands. Silly willy.

It wasn't nerfed at all. It's called sprinting.

A couple of reasons for the scout suit 1 being the dragonfly suit is absolutely free and 2 it takes time for people to learn. Why did people try to use swarms as anti infantry last build? have you been killed by these scout suits coming at you with shot guns? And I can tell you there is no problem counter sniping the ones with snipers.

Also I am all for teamwork and it does take some know-how to move through the battle field, figuring out what to engage and what to avoid, and some strategy when taking objectives. Only problem I have is that the individual is crippled, yes there does take some skill to target opponents in this build, but thanks to the limitations imposed on you from movement speed there is a bar and as soon as you pass that skill bar your good to go.

Exactly. You can still move quite fast, you just can't move fast and shoot at the same time.

Taking fire out in the open? Sprint for cover and counter-attack. This is what I do and it works, especially as a scout.

Spring doesn't exist when you start firing your gun or ADS. Your movement becomes that of a turtle. Taking away the ability to strafe takes away from the gun game aspect. Players cried and QQ'd that couldn't strafe and shoot at the same time so they asked the Devs to hold their hands and nerf it. Pretty much dub down the game play and made the game into who had better gear now. Skill doesn't apply to this game now. It's so easy to go 30+ kills a game with under 10 deaths because this aspect was removed.

Once again, I refer you to my previous post listing lots of things that require skill that ARE currently in this game.

As for strafing and aiming, from a realism standpoint, I think that make sense. How can you accurately aim and sidestep like a cheetah at the same time? And I have no idea what you mean by saying the gun-play aspect of the game is diminished by removing the lightning-strafe ability. I've already said, multiple times, that the core of and FPS is aiming well, firing accurately and first, and shooting from a better position. None of that involves moving really really fast.

There shouldn't be *any* way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots.

Realism... what does realism have to do with a game that takes play on planets and set it space? Secondly, who uses realism in a video game? Strafing was an unneeded nerf just like if bunny hoping was nerfed it would be another unneeded nerf.

There is a difference between dodging the shot, and dodging just the aim of your opponent.

No, scouts should not be able to run back and forth through a stream of fire and take no damage, but I do not have a problem with them moving fast enough to shake off an enemies' aim.

Since they did the huge mistake of nerfing strafing, jumping is one of the last things a person has left to try and dodge.

I dont know why they listened to the whinny crowd that can not shoot moving targets. There is just no valid argument to taking away strafing.

The ability to move fast enough to shake off someone's aim is still there. It's called a sprint button.

You can't sprint and shoot at the same time. Breaking somebody's aim while in a gun fight is the goal of strafing.

Exactly. You can still move quite fast, you just can't move fast and shoot at the same time.

Taking fire out in the open? Sprint for cover and counter-attack. This is what I do and it works, especially as a scout.

The ability to move fast enough to shake off someone's aim is still there. It's called a sprint button.

I didn't say sprint while shooting. I said sprint to break someone's aim. It's up to you to decide whether you want to stand and shoot or break and sprint for cover.

Probably already done to death in this thread, but I just threw that out there because you seemed to be arguing that people only like faster strafe speed because it allows them to dodge bullets. But that is not the case.

While sprinting in Dust you cannot reverse direction, pivot, crouch, or any number of things that almost anyone can do while sprinting in "real life" situations similar to those players encounter in game.

Apparently some folks didn't get the memo that strafing and jumping are dead and you aren't allowed to do them anymore.

I think it is fairly obvious, based on how most players react to getting shot at, that a lot of players expected this game to be more like Halo than it actually is.

kinda funny watching people in Assault suits immediately start jumping like Kriss Kross as soon as the first bullet hits them.

Those idiots, expecting to be able to affect how a firefight plays out with things like skill and gun play. Don't they know that the game has now been reduced to a point and click game with a first person view? They just need to get with the program and grind away until they hit the SP cap each week so they can "compete" with all the "elite" players with the best gear. amirite?

Your definitions of "skill" and "gunplay" must be tragically skewed if you think DUST doesn't make any use of them as it is now.

Your definition of "skill" and "gunplay" must be tragically skewed if you think DUST makes optimal use of them as it is now.

I mean, ANY game has a certain amount of "skill" required. Hell, if you can't reach down and properly move your playing piece, then you don't have enough "skill" to play Candy Land, but that doesn't mean Candy Land is a highly "skilled" board game.

Saying DUST 514 requires less skill because you can't run around in circles and shoot with the accuracy of Bobby Lee Swagger is just dumb.

What about the skill in gauging a position to see if you can get a good shot off from there? Or the skill of actually aiming and shooting? Or the skill of working with your team to win by taking down objectives or wiping out enemies? If you're so skilled, then find a new way to win at this game instead of complaining about how bad things are now.

In all fairness, I do admit that "bobbing and weaving" by strafing around and jumping while still maintaining constant fire on your opponent does require skill. To be honest, I sucked at it, and was bad at the last few builds. I'm better in this one, and in all honestly I say I'm glad to see the strafing go out the window. Because, and I cannot stress this enough: this game is about tactical shooting, which emphasizes cover, superior positioning, good aim, and teamwork, not running-and-gunning. But saying that these things require "less" skill is simply untrue, because skill is not something that can be measured quantitatively. By that I mean: different skills matter differently to different people... difference <_<

Saying that the game is catering to those who want to grind is actually something I thought was obvious from the get-go: people who play more will get better equipment and better skills. Why on earth would CCP put these things into the game if they didn't expect the players to get them in order to gain an edge over the competition?

If you're saying that this style of game is bad, then you're not just saying that this build is bad. You're saying that the whole game is fundamentally flawed. Which, in all honesty, makes no sense to me. Isn't it true in every game that the people who play the most end up gaining experience and doing very well for themselves? The only difference between DUST 514 and other games is the fact that the benefits are tangible as well as experience-based.

There shouldn't be *any* way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots.

How does it not work anymore, from what I can tell when I stand still I get shot.. if I move left right left right left right.. I take ALOT less damage.. and kill the guy in front of me while scoped in doing my left right left right

Those idiots, expecting to be able to affect how a firefight plays out with things like skill and gun play. Don't they know that the game has now been reduced to a point and click game with a first person view? They just need to get with the program and grind away until they hit the SP cap each week so they can "compete" with all the "elite" players with the best gear. amirite?

[


Hahahaha, I'm calling BS on this one. If you're a scout out in the open and an AR is firing on you, you're boned. That's it, finito. Unless the enemy has exactly 0 tracking ability, and has to reload because he accidentally tried running last time he reloaded and only had four bullets left, there's actually nothing you can do. Scout's just met to the super-accurate ADS of the AR's.

You so mad.

I really don't care. I say we turn the game into Unreal Tournament 514. Complete with 20 foot jumping flipping scoped in headshots.

at least it'll stop you guys from crying about it.

I just find it hilarious that so many people are on the forum crying, whining, bitching and moaning that they CAN'T MOVE AT ALL AND ARE FORCED TO STAY COMPLETELY STILL AT ALL TIMES....yet when I play in game, people dodge, weave, strafe, jump and everything you people continually cry and say that you can't do anymore, just because you want a game where everyone wears the scout suit and bunnyhops with a SMG.

amirite?

to hear you folks tell it, CCP has completely disabled the left joystick.

I don't know, maybe we are playing two completely different games. Every match I've been in since Codex was implemented has had almost nomovement occurring. Trying to move when someone else can see you = dead. The ONLY thing I've seen in the new build has been extremely slow blob warfare. Guys slowly trudging from a CRU in a large blob and blandly firing on the other team camping the objective, rinse repeat. There has been ALMOST ZERO dodging, weaving, strafing, or jumping. I mean, I honestly hate to sound like an ass, but maybe you're just not any good and can't shoot these guys trying to do these things, but for me it's basically SEE GUY, SHOOT GUY, GUY DIES until the match is over. There isn't any dodging or weaving because it is completely ineffective vs anyone who can aim with any level of proficiency.

They haven't COMPLETELY disabled the left joystick, that's just another obvious strawman, but they have made the left joystick fairly useless in a gunfight.

its no more of a strawman then "OMG YOU HAVE TO STAY UNREALISTICALLY STILL SO PEOPLE CANT SHOOT YOU!".

maybe we are playing two different games. Because I see jumping, dodging and strafing. I also see sprinting from cover to cover, and I see sneaking up on people and killing them before they can do anything about it.

I guess in your version of Dust 514, everyone spawns and stands exactly where they are and shoots till someone dies., because strafing isn't as easy as it was last build so why bother.

but mine doesn't do that.

and you are right, I suck at the game, and I can't shoot anyone who isn't standing completely perfectly still. thats why I play support. so now what?

either way, I for one, did not ask for the strafing to be turned down. I don't care. I'll adapt to however the game is. If that means playing cover to cover and crouch-shooting, then fine. if it means everyone wears a scout suit and a shotgun and we all do the BunnyHop Tango every game, like you all seem to want, then I'll do that too.

I do find the whining pretty funny though.

I like the strafeing speed where its at right now since a heavy with a HMG can kill a scout trying to go head on but a scout can circle around and bong!, bong!, bong! shotgun kill the heavy no prob.

its no more of a strawman then "OMG YOU HAVE TO STAY UNREALISTICALLY STILL SO PEOPLE CANT SHOOT YOU!".

maybe we are playing two different games. Because I see jumping, dodging and strafing. I also see sprinting from cover to cover, and I see sneaking up on people and killing them before they can do anything about it.

I guess in your version of Dust 514, everyone spawns and stands exactly where they are and shoots till someone dies., because strafing isn't as easy as it was last build so why bother.

but mine doesn't do that.

and you are right, I suck at the game, and I can't shoot anyone who isn't standing completely perfectly still. thats why I play support. so now what?

either way, I for one, did not ask for the strafing to be turned down. I don't care. I'll adapt to however the game is. If that means playing cover to cover and crouch-shooting, then fine. if it means everyone wears a scout suit and a shotgun and we all do the BunnyHop Tango every game, like you all seem to want, then I'll do that too.

I do find the whining pretty funny though.

You have to understand that we are in this state because of all the whining from people who can't aim. The game overly caters to scrubs now. Of course you are going to be for lower strafing speeds, you are a scrub.

Anyone that supports low strafe speeds wants this games mechanics and ideals to be similar to CoD. How does that make you feel?

as I said, I'm not for or against. it doesn't matter to me, it doesn't affect my gameplay as much as you seem to think it does. I'm sorry that it affects your gameplay to the extent that it does. well, no, I'm not sorry. I don't care.

I don't much care for COD.

I want Dust to be more like Planetside.

this thread was more for mocking the extreme hyperbole put forth by those complaining about the strafe speed. such as OMG YOU CANT AIM SO CCP IS MAKING ME STAND STILL SO YOU CAN KILL ME.

You have to understand that we are in this state because of all the whining from people who can't aim. The game overly caters to scrubs now. Of course you are going to be for lower strafing speeds, you are a scrub.

Anyone that supports low strafe speeds wants this games mechanics and ideals to be similar to CoD. How does that make you feel?

Here we go scubs again these forums are like clock work ill ask you a question there are games out their that have low strafe speed such as the battlefield series, ARMA, operation flash piont andthe lot are you telling me that these games are low skilled or does scrub meen something else?? Get it into yer heads there are other skills than tracking speed and evasion which are the 2 primary from last build.

I'm kind of tired of explaining this to people. We are talking about gun skills. Camping in a corner or behind a rock does not take very much skill.

LoL at "other types of skill." positioning does not take skill. A monkey could camp in a corner and get kills.

lol at you assuing camp iam talking about tactical assults, flanking tactics, use of cover properly, getting from cover to cover, stealth, target aquirsition(thanks to tacnet is stupidly easy), supporting vulnerable units, cover fire, ya know the stuff that is actually used by the real world militarizes, also gun skills in reallife and alot of games is a damn site more than here so ya cant pull that one son bullet projection, effective ranges, chances of a clean dispatch vrs risk so on so forth you clearly are not military,

Aslo positioning takes a damn site more skill than moving a analogue left and right to a pattern or typing adadadadad(oh thats some good evasion right there) depending on your preference,

I will tell you one thing now using cover is a damn site more valid tactic than straffing for one very good reason what would you do if some one took a pot shot at you zig zag towards them or gtf out of their line of sight/into cover

So camping and positioning takes more skill then actual gun game. You can wiggle that left joy stick all you want. If you can't aim you can't aim. Tactics are tactics btw. I am actually a really good tactician. That has nothing to do with gun skill though. We are talking about actual gun skill.

One of the worst players in mag was actually one of the best tacticians as PL. Tactics=/=Gun skill.

So camping and positioning takes more skill then actual gun game. You can wiggle that left joy stick all you want. If you can't aim you can't aim. Tactics are tactics btw. I am actually a really good tactician. That has nothing to do with gun skill though. We are talking about actual gun skill.

One of the worst players in mag was actually one of the best tacticians as PL. Tactics=/=Gun skill.

There shouldn't be *any* way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots.

Its not dodging shots, its a way to prevent the enemy from getting a lock on you.