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Shiro Mokuzan GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 106	Posted - 2012.10.06 21:22:00 - [31] - Quote Matobar wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: Matobar wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: DUST 514, were players expect other players to stand still and not move while getting shot. Enlist today bruh. There's a difference between moving to avoid getting shot and running circles around your opponent. I'm all for sprinting to cover or adjusting my position for a better shot. EDIT: Still, an enemy standing still while I shoot them does sound nice. Feel free to try it There was a difference to moving to avoid getting shot. That was nerfed though because players lacked gun game and had to ask the Devs to a hold their hands. Silly willy. It wasn't nerfed at all. It's called sprinting. Exactly. You can still move quite fast, you just can't move fast and shoot at the same time. Taking fire out in the open? Sprint for cover and counter-attack. This is what I do and it works, especially as a scout.
Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.06 21:24:00 - [32] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Matobar wrote: Sleepy Zan wrote: Matobar wrote: I would say that "moving like a bloated turtle" is somewhat of an overstatement. Besides, like I said before, if you have a better position and shoot first, you should die, especially if your opponent moves as slowly as you say. And if you're stuck in a bad situation, then you can treat your inevitable death as a learning experience, because now you know not to do whatever it was you just did which got you killed. As for getting shot in the back, I would say the best way to avoid that is to check the minimap regularly and to travel with a squad. Besides, most snipers use the Scout suit, if I'm not mistaken. And I saw quite a few running around with shotguns yesterday. So your point about them being useless really doesn't make sense. Yes I have seen those scout suits as well and they are killed almost effortlessly. And now in this game player skill is not rewarded, now its blob warfare and OBs. It takes no skill what so ever to target someone and lay on a stream of damage so now the only solution seems to be playing peek-a-boo from behind cover. I'm really having trouble following your logic here. First you say scout suits get killed easily. But if they get killed so easily, people wouldn't use them. And yet, we've both said we've seen people using them. Why would people continue using something you say is worthless? I'm also not understanding how there's no skill involved in this game. Isn't aiming well and quickly a skill? What about knowing which fights to jump into and which to run away from? How to attack an objective? Just because the skillsets may differ doesn't mean there's no skill involved. And FYI, what you call blob warfare I call team-based combat ;) EDIT: I'd also like to repeat myself in saying that I'm having trouble understanding exactly why it is you're complaining. FPS is based on advantageous positioning and skill with aiming and firing a variety of weapons, not "who-can-dodge-the-most-incoming-fire." A couple of reasons for the scout suit 1 being the dragonfly suit is absolutely free and 2 it takes time for people to learn. Why did people try to use swarms as anti infantry last build? have you been killed by these scout suits coming at you with shot guns? And I can tell you there is no problem counter sniping the ones with snipers. Also I am all for teamwork and it does take some know-how to move through the battle field, figuring out what to engage and what to avoid, and some strategy when taking objectives. Only problem I have is that the individual is crippled, yes there does take some skill to target opponents in this build, but thanks to the limitations imposed on you from movement speed there is a bar and as soon as you pass that skill bar your good to go. I may be flamed for this, but I'm someone who thinks that a game should be accessible to anyone, provided they have a bit of practice. So I really don't understand why you're so upset about the skills being such that a lot of people can learn them. But hey, that's just me. As for the whole nerfed movement speed thing, it really hasn't been affected all that much. You can still turn and sprint to cover just fine. I do it all the time From there you can either hope to have an ally nearby, wait for your shields to recharge, or die, and learn from your mistake as I mentioned previously. I just don't understand why you're so determined to believe that everyone's ability to compete was ruined by the lack of strafing speed: it really wasn't. The only thing that has changed is the emphasis on group unit tactics because, as you said, the individual player is somewhat diminished. But this was only to the point that they couldn't go up against a whole group of enemies and win just by jumping and spinning and running in circles. Which, honestly, pisses a whole lot of people off when it happens. EDIT: As for the scout suit being useless, I'm still willing to bet that you're exaggerating. I'd say, if we polled the members of the forum, we'd find quite a few who still enjoyed being scouts, despite the "uselessness" of the dropsuit.
GIZMO2606 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2012.10.06 21:40:00 - [33] - Quote Shiro Mokuzan wrote: Matobar wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: Matobar wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: DUST 514, were players expect other players to stand still and not move while getting shot. Enlist today bruh. There's a difference between moving to avoid getting shot and running circles around your opponent. I'm all for sprinting to cover or adjusting my position for a better shot. EDIT: Still, an enemy standing still while I shoot them does sound nice. Feel free to try it There was a difference to moving to avoid getting shot. That was nerfed though because players lacked gun game and had to ask the Devs to a hold their hands. Silly willy. It wasn't nerfed at all. It's called sprinting. Exactly. You can still move quite fast, you just can't move fast and shoot at the same time. Taking fire out in the open? Sprint for cover and counter-attack. This is what I do and it works, especially as a scout. Sprinting doesn't exist when you start firing your gun or ADS. Your movement becomes that of a turtle. Taking away the ability to strafe takes away from the gun game aspect. Players cried and QQ'd that couldn't strafe and shoot at the same time so they asked the Devs to hold their hands and nerf it. Pretty much dub down the game play and made the game into who had better gear now. Skill doesn't apply to this game now. It's so easy to go 30+ kills a game with under 10 deaths because this aspect was removed.
Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.06 21:47:00 - [34] - Quote GIZMO2606 wrote: Spring doesn't exist when you start firing your gun or ADS. Your movement becomes that of a turtle. Taking away the ability to strafe takes away from the gun game aspect. Players cried and QQ'd that couldn't strafe and shoot at the same time so they asked the Devs to hold their hands and nerf it. Pretty much dub down the game play and made the game into who had better gear now. Skill doesn't apply to this game now. It's so easy to go 30+ kills a game with under 10 deaths because this aspect was removed. Once again, I refer you to my previous post listing lots of things that require skill that ARE currently in this game. As for strafing and aiming, from a realism standpoint, I think that make sense. How can you accurately aim and sidestep like a cheetah at the same time? And I have no idea what you mean by saying the gun-play aspect of the game is diminished by removing the lightning-strafe ability. I've already said, multiple times, that the core of and FPS is aiming well, firing accurately and first, and shooting from a better position. None of that involves moving really really fast. EDIT: Also, I think it's stupid of you to say that there is no skill involved in the game just because they removed strafing. I won't even argue the fact that strafing does require skill. My point is that saying the game DOESN'T need skill just because that one skill is now useless is a very dumb thing to say. If you're really doing so badly now that you can't strafe while aiming, then maybe you aren't as skilled as you think.
GIZMO2606 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2012.10.06 21:54:00 - [35] - Quote Matobar wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: Spring doesn't exist when you start firing your gun or ADS. Your movement becomes that of a turtle. Taking away the ability to strafe takes away from the gun game aspect. Players cried and QQ'd that couldn't strafe and shoot at the same time so they asked the Devs to hold their hands and nerf it. Pretty much dub down the game play and made the game into who had better gear now. Skill doesn't apply to this game now. It's so easy to go 30+ kills a game with under 10 deaths because this aspect was removed. Once again, I refer you to my previous post listing lots of things that require skill that ARE currently in this game. As for strafing and aiming, from a realism standpoint, I think that make sense. How can you accurately aim and sidestep like a cheetah at the same time? And I have no idea what you mean by saying the gun-play aspect of the game is diminished by removing the lightning-strafe ability. I've already said, multiple times, that the core of and FPS is aiming well, firing accurately and first, and shooting from a better position. None of that involves moving really really fast. Realism... what does realism have to do with a game that takes play on planets and set it space? Secondly, who uses realism in a video game? Strafing was an unneeded nerf just like if bunny hoping was nerfed it would be another unneeded nerf.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.10.06 21:55:00 - [36] - Quote Matobar wrote: There shouldn't be any way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots. There is a difference between dodging the shot, and dodging just the aim of your opponent. No, scouts should not be able to run back and forth through a stream of fire and take no damage, but I do not have a problem with them moving fast enough to shake off an enemies' aim. PS there hasn't been a BunnyHop in DUST for ages if ever.
Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.06 21:58:00 - [37] - Quote GIZMO2606 wrote: Matobar wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: Spring doesn't exist when you start firing your gun or ADS. Your movement becomes that of a turtle. Taking away the ability to strafe takes away from the gun game aspect. Players cried and QQ'd that couldn't strafe and shoot at the same time so they asked the Devs to hold their hands and nerf it. Pretty much dub down the game play and made the game into who had better gear now. Skill doesn't apply to this game now. It's so easy to go 30+ kills a game with under 10 deaths because this aspect was removed. Once again, I refer you to my previous post listing lots of things that require skill that ARE currently in this game. As for strafing and aiming, from a realism standpoint, I think that make sense. How can you accurately aim and sidestep like a cheetah at the same time? And I have no idea what you mean by saying the gun-play aspect of the game is diminished by removing the lightning-strafe ability. I've already said, multiple times, that the core of and FPS is aiming well, firing accurately and first, and shooting from a better position. None of that involves moving really really fast. Realism... what does realism have to do with a game that takes play on planets and set it space? Secondly, who uses realism in a video game? Strafing was an unneeded nerf just like if bunny hoping was nerfed it would be another unneeded nerf. See my edited post for a non-realism based argument.
Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.06 21:58:00 - [38] - Quote Aighun wrote: Matobar wrote: There shouldn't be any way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots. There is a difference between dodging the shot, and dodging just the aim of your opponent. No, scouts should not be able to run back and forth through a stream of fire and take no damage, but I do not have a problem with them moving fast enough to shake off an enemies' aim. The ability to move fast enough to shake off someone's aim is still there. It's called a sprint button.
Regis Mark V 91	Posted - 2012.10.06 21:59:00 - [39] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: Since they did the huge mistake of nerfing strafing, jumping is one of the last things a person has left to try and dodge. I dont know why they listened to the whinny crowd that can not shoot moving targets. There is just no valid argument to taking away strafing. The same crowd that cried for KB/M.
Regis Mark V 91	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:02:00 - [40] - Quote Realism arguments based on video games LMAO gets me everytime! How can you argue about realism in a game with clones that can transfer all memories at the time of death? Realism arguments don't hold up in this game.

Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:03:00 - [41] - Quote Actually, you know what? Here is why realism matters. Realism matters because, despite the game being set in space and in the future, the people still wear battle suits to protect them from bullets. They still wear re-breathers for unbreathable atmospheres. There is still gravity. Guns can still kill you. All of these things are based in realism. So, I say you shouldn't be able to strafe like you're doing the moonwalk because not only is it impossible for you to do while aiming, but it would also be very difficult in such heavy battle armor. Both of which are realistic arguments. If the developers want to base their game on real-world equivalents, then they can feel free to. As much as EVE takes liberties with its lore, a lot of it is still grounded in realism. And without this realism, the game wouldn't have, say, a player driven economy, or corporations, or guns.
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:04:00 - [42] - Quote Matobar wrote: Aighun wrote: Matobar wrote: There shouldn't be any way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots. There is a difference between dodging the shot, and dodging just the aim of your opponent. No, scouts should not be able to run back and forth through a stream of fire and take no damage, but I do not have a problem with them moving fast enough to shake off an enemies' aim. The ability to move fast enough to shake off someone's aim is still there. It's called a sprint button. You can't sprint and shoot at the same time. Breaking somebody's aim while in a gun fight is the goal of strafing.
Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:06:00 - [43] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: Matobar wrote: Aighun wrote: Matobar wrote: There shouldn't be any way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots. There is a difference between dodging the shot, and dodging just the aim of your opponent. No, scouts should not be able to run back and forth through a stream of fire and take no damage, but I do not have a problem with them moving fast enough to shake off an enemies' aim. The ability to move fast enough to shake off someone's aim is still there. It's called a sprint button. You can't sprint and shoot at the same time. Breaking somebody's aim while in a gun fight is the goal of strafing. I didn't say sprint while shooting. I said sprint to break someone's aim. It's up to you to decide whether you want to stand and shoot or break and sprint for cover.
Daddrobit Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 277	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:09:00 - [44] - Quote Shiro Mokuzan wrote: Matobar wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: Matobar wrote: GIZMO2606 wrote: DUST 514, were players expect other players to stand still and not move while getting shot. Enlist today bruh. There's a difference between moving to avoid getting shot and running circles around your opponent. I'm all for sprinting to cover or adjusting my position for a better shot. EDIT: Still, an enemy standing still while I shoot them does sound nice. Feel free to try it There was a difference to moving to avoid getting shot. That was nerfed though because players lacked gun game and had to ask the Devs to a hold their hands. Silly willy. It wasn't nerfed at all. It's called sprinting. Exactly. You can still move quite fast, you just can't move fast and shoot at the same time. Taking fire out in the open? Sprint for cover and counter-attack. This is what I do and it works, especially as a scout. Hahahaha, I'm calling BS on this one. If you're a scout out in the open and an AR is firing on you, you're boned. That's it, finito. Unless the enemy has exactly 0 tracking ability, and has to reload because he accidentally tried running last time he reloaded and only had four bullets left, there's actually nothing you can do. Scout's just met to the super-accurate ADS of the AR's.
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:10:00 - [45] - Quote Matobar wrote: Aighun wrote: Matobar wrote: There shouldn't be any way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots. There is a difference between dodging the shot, and dodging just the aim of your opponent. No, scouts should not be able to run back and forth through a stream of fire and take no damage, but I do not have a problem with them moving fast enough to shake off an enemies' aim. The ability to move fast enough to shake off someone's aim is still there. It's called a sprint button. Probably already done to death in this thread, but I just threw that out there because you seemed to be arguing that people only like faster strafe speed because it allows them to dodge bullets. But that is not the case. While sprinting in Dust you cannot reverse direction, pivot, crouch, or any number of things that almost anyone can do while sprinting in "real life" situations similar to those players encounter in game.
Khortez D Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:11:00 - [46] - Quote you probably wouldn't be laughing as your dead and im still running around -- if your still laughing more power to you.
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 126	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:13:00 - [47] - Quote Matobar wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: Matobar wrote: Aighun wrote: Matobar wrote: There shouldn't be any way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots. There is a difference between dodging the shot, and dodging just the aim of your opponent. No, scouts should not be able to run back and forth through a stream of fire and take no damage, but I do not have a problem with them moving fast enough to shake off an enemies' aim. The ability to move fast enough to shake off someone's aim is still there. It's called a sprint button. You can't sprint and shoot at the same time. Breaking somebody's aim while in a gun fight is the goal of strafing. I didn't say sprint while shooting. I said sprint to break someone's aim. It's up to you to decide whether you want to stand and shoot or break and sprint for cover. Mate this is the issue here they dont want to pick one they want to do both evade bullets and return fire, to them the ultimate fire fight is 2 people doing this but to us that just seem daft, its kind of like our perfect fire fight is creative use of the terrain for cover and falnking tactics and the likes to most acade guys they think we are stupid to stay still to maintain a firing stance,
Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.06 22:13:00 - [48] - Quote Aighun wrote: Matobar wrote: Aighun wrote: Matobar wrote: There shouldn't be any way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots. There is a difference between dodging the shot, and dodging just the aim of your opponent. No, scouts should not be able to run back and forth through a stream of fire and take no damage, but I do not have a problem with them moving fast enough to shake off an enemies' aim. The ability to move fast enough to shake off someone's aim is still there. It's called a sprint button. Probably already done to death in this thread, but I just threw that out there because you seemed to be arguing that people only like faster strafe speed because it allows them to dodge bullets. But that is not the case. While sprinting in Dust you cannot reverse direction, pivot, crouch, or any number of things that almost anyone can do while sprinting in "real life" situations similar to those players encounter in game. I'm only arguing against the reasons given to me for disliking the decreased strafing speed.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 810	Posted - 2012.10.06 23:02:00 - [49] - Quote Madison Four wrote: Apparently some folks didn't get the memo that strafing and jumping are dead and you aren't allowed to do them anymore. I think it is fairly obvious, based on how most players react to getting shot at, that a lot of players expected this game to be more like Halo than it actually is. kinda funny watching people in Assault suits immediately start jumping like Kriss Kross as soon as the first bullet hits them. Those idiots, expecting to be able to affect how a firefight plays out with things like skill and gun play. Don't they know that the game has now been reduced to a point and click game with a first person view? They just need to get with the program and grind away until they hit the SP cap each week so they can "compete" with all the "elite" players with the best gear. amirite?
Tech Ohm Eaven L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 401	Posted - 2012.10.06 23:05:00 - [50] - Quote I like the strafeing speed where its at right now since a heavy with a HMG can kill a scout trying to go head on but a scout can circle around and bong!, bong!, bong! shotgun kill the heavy no prob.

Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.06 23:10:00 - [51] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Madison Four wrote: Apparently some folks didn't get the memo that strafing and jumping are dead and you aren't allowed to do them anymore. I think it is fairly obvious, based on how most players react to getting shot at, that a lot of players expected this game to be more like Halo than it actually is. kinda funny watching people in Assault suits immediately start jumping like Kriss Kross as soon as the first bullet hits them. Those idiots, expecting to be able to affect how a firefight plays out with things like skill and gun play. Don't they know that the game has now been reduced to a point and click game with a first person view? They just need to get with the program and grind away until they hit the SP cap each week so they can "compete" with all the "elite" players with the best gear. amirite? Your definitions of "skill" and "gunplay" must be tragically skewed if you think DUST doesn't make any use of them as it is now.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 810	Posted - 2012.10.06 23:18:00 - [52] - Quote Matobar wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Madison Four wrote: Apparently some folks didn't get the memo that strafing and jumping are dead and you aren't allowed to do them anymore. I think it is fairly obvious, based on how most players react to getting shot at, that a lot of players expected this game to be more like Halo than it actually is. kinda funny watching people in Assault suits immediately start jumping like Kriss Kross as soon as the first bullet hits them. Those idiots, expecting to be able to affect how a firefight plays out with things like skill and gun play. Don't they know that the game has now been reduced to a point and click game with a first person view? They just need to get with the program and grind away until they hit the SP cap each week so they can "compete" with all the "elite" players with the best gear. amirite? Your definitions of "skill" and "gunplay" must be tragically skewed if you think DUST doesn't make any use of them as it is now. Your definition of "skill" and "gunplay" must be tragically skewed if you think DUST makes optimal use of them as it is now. I mean, ANY game has a certain amount of "skill" required. Hell, if you can't reach down and properly move your playing piece, then you don't have enough "skill" to play Candy Land, but that doesn't mean Candy Land is a highly "skilled" board game.
Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.06 23:23:00 - [53] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Matobar wrote: Baal Roo wrote: Madison Four wrote: Apparently some folks didn't get the memo that strafing and jumping are dead and you aren't allowed to do them anymore. I think it is fairly obvious, based on how most players react to getting shot at, that a lot of players expected this game to be more like Halo than it actually is. kinda funny watching people in Assault suits immediately start jumping like Kriss Kross as soon as the first bullet hits them. Those idiots, expecting to be able to affect how a firefight plays out with things like skill and gun play. Don't they know that the game has now been reduced to a point and click game with a first person view? They just need to get with the program and grind away until they hit the SP cap each week so they can "compete" with all the "elite" players with the best gear. amirite? Your definitions of "skill" and "gunplay" must be tragically skewed if you think DUST doesn't make any use of them as it is now. Your definition of "skill" and "gunplay" must be tragically skewed if you think DUST makes optimal use of them as it is now. I mean, ANY game has a certain amount of "skill" required. Hell, if you can't reach down and properly move your playing piece, then you don't have enough "skill" to play Candy Land, but that doesn't mean Candy Land is a highly "skilled" board game. Saying DUST 514 requires less skill because you can't run around in circles and shoot with the accuracy of Bobby Lee Swagger is just dumb. What about the skill in gauging a position to see if you can get a good shot off from there? Or the skill of actually aiming and shooting? Or the skill of working with your team to win by taking down objectives or wiping out enemies? If you're so skilled, then find a new way to win at this game instead of complaining about how bad things are now.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 810	Posted - 2012.10.06 23:38:00 - [54] - Quote Matobar wrote: Saying DUST 514 requires less skill because you can't run around in circles and shoot with the accuracy of Bobby Lee Swagger is just dumb. That's a ridiculous strawman, and you know it.... or at least, I hope you do. Of course, I will admit that we are both reaching into the realms of hyperbole here, so I'll let it slide. I really honestly do feel like there is very little skill involved with this build. It's not completely devoid of any skill whatsover, but the learning curve is EXTREMELY low to the point of being pretty intensely boring for anyone who's even halfway decent at FPS, IMO. Quote: What about the skill in gauging a position to see if you can get a good shot off from there? Or the skill of actually aiming and shooting? Or the skill of working with your team to win by taking down objectives or wiping out enemies? If you're so skilled, then find a new way to win at this game instead of complaining about how bad things are now. All of those skills will be necessary *either way*, and frankly, are pretty rudimentary. The problem is, as it stands, it's SO rudimentary that many of us aren't seeing any compelling reasons to bother "find(ing) a new way to win". My solution to the problem has simply been, not to play the game anymore... and it's the much more efficient and enjoyable solution IMO. I've got better things to do with my time than play a slowed down, rudimentary, low point of entry/low skill level, FPS shooter that caters heavily to people willing to invest hours a day to grinding their SP and ISK. In previous builds the grind could be offset more easily with skill of play, but with so many aspects of the gunplay skill be removed or nerfed, the game now much more heavily favors the grinders. Clearly, the grinders want their time they've spent to eclipse my (and other's) ability to come in for a few hours a week and beat them with superior play, I get it, but catering to that base is going to limit the game's appeal to non-hardcore grinders. It's going to end up with the reputation of being a "game for no lifers".
Matobar Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 123	Posted - 2012.10.06 23:56:00 - [55] - Quote In all fairness, I do admit that "bobbing and weaving" by strafing around and jumping while still maintaining constant fire on your opponent does require skill. To be honest, I sucked at it, and was bad at the last few builds. I'm better in this one, and in all honestly I say I'm glad to see the strafing go out the window. Because, and I cannot stress this enough: this game is about tactical shooting, which emphasizes cover, superior positioning, good aim, and teamwork, not running-and-gunning. But saying that these things require "less" skill is simply untrue, because skill is not something that can be measured quantitatively. By that I mean: different skills matter differently to different people... difference <_< Saying that the game is catering to those who want to grind is actually something I thought was obvious from the get-go: people who play more will get better equipment and better skills. Why on earth would CCP put these things into the game if they didn't expect the players to get them in order to gain an edge over the competition? If you're saying that this style of game is bad, then you're not just saying that this build is bad. You're saying that the whole game is fundamentally flawed. Which, in all honesty, makes no sense to me. Isn't it true in every game that the people who play the most end up gaining experience and doing very well for themselves? The only difference between DUST 514 and other games is the fact that the benefits are tangible as well as experience-based.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 810	Posted - 2012.10.07 00:12:00 - [56] - Quote Matobar wrote: In all fairness, I do admit that "bobbing and weaving" by strafing around and jumping while still maintaining constant fire on your opponent does require skill. To be honest, I sucked at it, and was bad at the last few builds. I'm better in this one, and in all honestly I say I'm glad to see the strafing go out the window. Because, and I cannot stress this enough: this game is about tactical shooting, which emphasizes cover, superior positioning, good aim, and teamwork, not running-and-gunning. But saying that these things require "less" skill is simply untrue, because skill is not something that can be measured quantitatively. By that I mean: different skills matter differently to different people... difference <_< Thanks for the honestly, but here's the problem with what you're saying. Again, "tactical shooting, with emphasizes cover, superior positioning, good aim, and team work" were already part of the game. They haven't added any new gameplay elements, so whatever was there before that they didn't remove, is what's left now. By removing the other "run and gun" elements, you don't make the other elements intrinsically more skillful. Those other elements are just the same as they were before, they've simply removed a bunch of other skills from the skillset. As you have admitted, the game was HARDER before. You have the same skill set now as you had before the new build. Do you really believe that your gaming skill increased coincidentally with the new build, or if you're honest with yourself can you see that the skill required to actually play the game has diminished? You've "gotten better" because the skill required to play the game has diminished. It's the obvious answer, and if you're honest you'll see that it's the truth of the matter. Quote: Saying that the game is catering to those who want to grind is actually something I thought was obvious from the get-go: people who play more will get better equipment and better skills. Why on earth would CCP put these things into the game if they didn't expect the players to get them in order to gain an edge over the competition? I do agree, generally speaking, with what you're saying here, but it's a matter of degrees. As the overall necessity for gaming and gunplay skill is reduced, the impact of a players stats goes up. Maybe you're happy with the new balance, and I can accept that, but I'm not (and many of the other "above average" FPS players don't seem to be either). Now, look, I'm not an elite FPS player, that's not what I'm saying, but I'm pretty proud of the fact that when I play an FPS I almost always kill more than I am killed. I've noticed that it seems like the satisfaction with this new build seems to have a direct correlation with whether or not the person in question can make such a claim... which is, IMO, a pretty big red flag for long term growth in an FPS. Quote: If you're saying that this style of game is bad, then you're not just saying that this build is bad. You're saying that the whole game is fundamentally flawed. Which, in all honesty, makes no sense to me. Isn't it true in every game that the people who play the most end up gaining experience and doing very well for themselves? The only difference between DUST 514 and other games is the fact that the benefits are tangible as well as experience-based. I enjoy MMOs, and I enjoy RPGs. I LOVE the grind to get new gear, comparing stats, buying and selling, applying skill points. Hell, I was playing tabletop Dungeons and Dragons when a lot of the people on this forum were learning to tie their shoes. So, don't think that I'm simply some FPS dbag who hates other styles of gameplay. I'm just not seeing how this particular build's gameplay balance is going to be beneficial for the long term health of this game.
Rhadiem Algintal Core Gallente Federation 496	Posted - 2012.10.07 00:21:00 - [57] - Quote It seems some people don't realize that circle-strafing/bunny hopping was in the first major FPS games on the planet. Yet they're all snobbish because they feel their way is "right"... for a game. But.. cough.. addressing the "logic" in the thread.. Hopping still works for scouts.. anything where you can rapidly move out of the expected location of your assailant's fire can be effective. If this were real life, we could dive, roll and crouch run. You're not "dodging bullets" you're getting the kitten out of the line of fire.
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 421	Posted - 2012.10.07 00:25:00 - [58] - Quote Matobar wrote: SILENTSAM 69 wrote: To add insult to injury they ruined the SMG by switching the skill DMG bonus for the kick back bonus. I use to love using the SMG as my main weapon, but now I have to use this damn AR. There shouldn't be any way to dodge gunshots. They're freaking gunshots. Strafing is not about dodging bullets. it is about not sitting in one spot so a person can line up a shot. I strafe in real life when I paintball, and think those who think people dont really move like that are kidding themselves. People who run in straight lines get s hot.
Madison Four 57	Posted - 2012.10.07 00:53:00 - [59] - Quote Knightshade Belladonna wrote: Madison Four wrote: Apparently some folks didn't get the memo that strafing and jumping are dead and you aren't allowed to do them anymore. I think it is fairly obvious, based on how most players react to getting shot at, that a lot of players expected this game to be more like Halo than it actually is. kinda funny watching people in Assault suits immediately start jumping like Kriss Kross as soon as the first bullet hits them. How does it not work anymore, from what I can tell when I stand still I get shot.. if I move left right left right left right.. I take ALOT less damage.. and kill the guy in front of me while scoped in doing my left right left right You need to train Sarcasm Recognition V.
Madison Four 57	Posted - 2012.10.07 00:58:00 - [60] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Madison Four wrote: Apparently some folks didn't get the memo that strafing and jumping are dead and you aren't allowed to do them anymore. I think it is fairly obvious, based on how most players react to getting shot at, that a lot of players expected this game to be more like Halo than it actually is. kinda funny watching people in Assault suits immediately start jumping like Kriss Kross as soon as the first bullet hits them. Those idiots, expecting to be able to affect how a firefight plays out with things like skill and gun play. Don't they know that the game has now been reduced to a point and click game with a first person view? They just need to get with the program and grind away until they hit the SP cap each week so they can "compete" with all the "elite" players with the best gear. amirite? You so mad. I really don't care. I say we turn the game into Unreal Tournament 514. Complete with 20 foot jumping flipping scoped in headshots. at least it'll stop you guys from crying about it. I just find it hilarious that so many people are on the forum crying, whining, bitching and moaning that they CAN'T MOVE AT ALL AND ARE FORCED TO STAY COMPLETELY STILL AT ALL TIMES....yet when I play in game, people dodge, weave, strafe, jump and everything you people continually cry and say that you can't do anymore, just because you want a game where everyone wears the scout suit and bunnyhops with a SMG. amirite? to hear you folks tell it, CCP has completely disabled the left joystick.



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