Waltzing is good with a woman but not with a gun :))

I think the frame rate fix has also made the scouts easier to hit. I am not sure but I think the Scout has a larger hit box now as well. I could be wrong of course.

I guess it just seems that a combination of things have happened. How do other suits feel when getting shot at? Are other suits easier to hit now as well?

It use to be that a Scout would be taken down at range, but that they could CQC fine because they could dance around a person. I considered that balanced because it was often the opponents fault for closing range with a CQC person.

Now it seems the Scout is not very good for CQC, and not good for range with its low ehp. So until we can turn invisible I am not sure if the Scout suit has a purpose.

The problem with this is that the game was supposed to offer versatility and options. You could make a suit be what you wanted it to be. It doesnt seem that way.

When you think about a scout, in any other game or heck in real life do you think it should be like the Road Runner and Meep meep around the map, dancing like they should be on "So you think you can dance"

or

Do you see a scout as an long range sniper fighter, spotting the enemy and using tactical moves to counter and attack.

Me, I see the 2nd one. I see a scout as a fast runner who gets into position and then fires, then moves to new spot with the speed of the suit helping you get there, not dancing and thinking you should beat a Assault player in a 1vs1 fight.

Maybe this is the same thought CCP has had about scout suits. Thoughts Sam?

I had always thought it was sci-fi vs realistic. I was hoping this game would stay more sc-fi and not so realistic. Its kind of getting me down.

The game feels great to me right now. Dancing is obsolete because there's actual hit detection now, so the dancing doesn't save you from bullets that it shouldn't. It's easy enough to beat people with better gear than you have. You just have to play it smart.

Incidentally, I'm loving the MLT/STD/ADV readout that's put right on the UI. It definitely helps when so many of the suits look the same even at different levels.

i didnt even needed to read the entire stuff you wrote. Will do tomorrow.
But from what i saw in the introduction, and the opposition between arcade and tactical, i think i'll agree with you fully.

This codex build is clearly giving me a mixed feeling. A huge work on every aspect of the game, well done. And some adjustments in gun play that i find clumsy and annoying, nearly a deal breaker for me now that i've played longer.

i didnt even needed to read the entire stuff you wrote. Will do tomorrow.
But from what i saw in the introduction, and the opposition between arcade and tactical, i think i'll agree with you fully.

This codex build is clearly giving me a mixed feeling. A huge work on every aspect of the game, well done. And some adjustments in gun play that i find clumsy and annoying, nearly a deal breaker for me now that i've played longer.

Suggestion to everyone, give this build time. Lets come back from a weekend of playing and see how we all feel about the movement speed, maybe it will get better as we play or become more obvious it needs work.

Actualy Deadpool I'm 100% arcade . I loved the fast paced action and not having to camp to get kills. I was 75% scout most of the time and loved trying to keep a bead on the hostiles while dancing all over the place. The play style realy suited me and tbh I wasnt half bad at it considering my lack of experiance.

So I guess I'm not like most of the EVE crowd in that respect and I tend to get on well with the MAGTARDS which is odd also I guess.

Just spent a game camping one spot to try it out and came top of the leaderboard

My playstyle is dead this build I guess its time to set up camp or leave.

There's not much to discuss imo. I spend nearly a whole game testing movement speed by doing loooooooong straight line strafing and then doing the same loooong line moving forward. And the difference is huge.
The only way to really notice is to do a long strafe while there's absolutely no action and it feels ridiculous. almost like the guy has a handicap of some sort.

I wasnt fond of the straf\movement speed in the first build, even E3 one felt a bit too fast. Precursor was to me perfect considering hit detection was supposed to be enhanced. But Codex ? it feels like straf speed has been tone down by half.
Thus killing the skill of players that have a good science in disturbing the ennemy with smart move while maintaining good tracking of the target.

It gives me a sensation of pre-played gunfights i never had in precursor. Or, a sort of never ending cover fights due to shield and armor regen. Overall, it serves the guy with the best equipment where precursor seemed to give more possibilities during the gunfight.

I never felt that bad regarding gunplay in any dust 514 build till now.

I'll give it time. But if this is the way dust is going, i may not like it so much.

First good reply, thanks for pointing out where you background is in this, but also staying neutral.

Agree again, that the middle ground is a very, very fine line. But I think we both agree this build compared to last build there has been a shift. What % do you think the speed should be increased by? Do you think this is in all directions or just strafing? Do you think jumping/bunny hop moves should come back or just better strafe speed for better dancing in the box?

Agreed again with actual tactics, but that's a part of the bigger picture of game play. While I'm referring to 1vs1 combat.

While you think to highly of the players that dance, consider the fact they have spent years on their craft in many games, so to them that is the pinnacle of their style. So don't discount them for having the difference is choice of games and finding the best way to play those games.

Agreed, this discussion needs to include suits and movements in those suits.

Again Ty for your kind words. +1

Please keep this conversation polite and civil. I just noticed the other thread that was closed be Devs for getting out of line. I prefer we talk and discuss this like adults with no name calling, no dumbing down replies.

As for the movement changes i would suggest the sprint needs a 5 to 10% boost (closer to 5 tho) main reason is most people say it feels to slow and to me that is the evade "head down and get the hell out of there/to cover" dont know about the base movement speed tho id like to hear from more people from my style as at this iam above average at tactical shooters, ecceling at strategic planing such why iam trying extra hard at squad leader this time just need squad on mics, for now i think a alround minor improvement is required to base movement but not much mabye 5% this would have the strafing not equal to forward

I now realise that you are refering to 1 v 1 ultimatly the outcome would be decided from the start of the engagement due to a number of factors:

Range
weapon and its preference in range and target
playstlye, (tactical guys will have advantage at range up till about 10m or so then advantage is arcade guy)
positioning(high ground, cover, flank, )
engage advantages(such as caught them un aware with back turned so on so forth)
evasion skills(only realy work if in cqc if arcady if a tactical play could evade at range with use of cover)
Skill with weapons(both groups have different pref on how to used such as ADS and hip fire for example)
how well equiped
Unfortunatly hit detection/lag/Frame rate drops also play a wild card

So its kind of hard to say how 2 well healed skills will factor into a fire fight (sorry probably a bit off topic) but i honestly cant tell as some situations would suggest one player would win where others the other player would win, the problem i had with the strafe in last build is it was effectivly a panic move that trumped all of the above with the only way to kill them was at their own game now it has less impact so people are angry,

I think the only chance for the line to be found that is common is to find what distance straffing should be effective so that is does not trump other skills after all for a certain skill to work you first need to play it at its strenght, as it stands i think from hip straffing should only work at very close less than 10 metre maybe 8 due to gun sway that would arise from such a movement,

Id be interested to hear more opinions on how it works from OP, others from tactical camp and even the arcade guys

I thought this was one of the most civil discussions i've had seen to date, as I said before the scout suit was to agile with impossible acrobatics but now offers no advantage over assault.the strafe nerf is a good idea implemented badly and to heavy handed as in a one size fits all philosophy, it dosn't work.

I thought this was one of the most civil discussions i've had seen to date, as I said before the scout suit was to agile with impossible acrobatics but now offers no advantage over assault.the strafe nerf is a good idea implemented badly and to heavy handed as in a one size fits all philosophy, it dosn't work.

Ok, so you like the tactical side more. But I have to disagree with your thought on " It's easy enough to beat people with better gear than you have. You just have to play it smart", once you get better gear then it becomes less and less about skill and more about the gear you have earned.

Um Assualt is a combat suit with fire fights in mind that is what it is designed for scout is a recon/sniping designed suit its not ment to go head to head with a assult or even a heavy for that matter, scouts have more ability to get to areas a assualt cant and faster at that the scout suit has 2 traditional roles that i can think of off the top of my head that is recon this is a support role every bit as much as a logi it just lacks reward and is more or less automated, the other natural role is sniper snipers ultimitaly take out dug in enemies, and provide area denial basicly stops enemies from roaming around this will attract alot of hate but thats how you know your being a good sniper, but the miricle of new eden is random fits that people make work, so effectivly a scout does not have a fire fight advantage over a assualt same as a logi doesnt

I agree never played scout as I said before I actually killed all the scouts that tried to mix it with me today but the fun has gone, I used to enjoy trying to beat better players, it all comes down to who has the first hit and better gear now, sort of like Warcraft.

Gear >>> skill

I agree never played scout as I said before I actually killed all the scouts that tried to mix it with me today but the fun has gone, I used to enjoy trying to beat better players, it all comes down to who has the first hit and better gear now, sort of like Warcraft.

Gear >>> skill

When you think about a scout, in any other game or heck in real life do you think it should be like the Road Runner and Meep meep around the map, dancing like they should be on "So you think you can dance"

or

Do you see a scout as an long range sniper fighter, spotting the enemy and using tactical moves to counter and attack.

Me, I see the 2nd one. I see a scout as a fast runner who gets into position and then fires, then moves to new spot with the speed of the suit helping you get there, not dancing and thinking you should beat a Assault player in a 1vs1 fight.

Maybe this is the same thought CCP has had about scout suits. Thoughts Sam?

I think you are seeing the suits in only one perspective, the suits are't classes which restrict you in one role . The scout isn't just made for sniping, there isn't anywhere that says that . I used scouts and fit the them with a shotgun and used my speed as my advantage , which sometimes I get the most kills in the leaderboard or I would lay down drop uplinks near objectives . One person even played a medic fit with his suit , he used his speed to quickly get in and revive and heal his teammates. I think what CCP wants is to create flexibility so players can play their own playstyle .

And I dont really think you know what your talking about when it comes to halo it has nothing to with the planet's gravity(lol you don't even hardly go to any planets in the first place , if it did it doesn't change the gameplay ) its everything to do with the lore behind the Spartans and the core gameplay for halo , mainly the core gameplay. I liked the strafing because to me it added another layer to the gunplay and skill. But also I dislike the insane strafing that was in the first build and I don't think dust was built around it like halo , quake , unreal , doom ,etc . You can't add one element the game wasn't really built around and slap it to the game and expect it to work . Imo I think the one of the reasons the some players complained about the movement in Dust is because we play as super soldier wearing incredibly advanced armor , shouldn't we be able to move fairly quick and efficient around the battle? But at the same time it has to be balanced around with the maps , player count , other suits , etc