One of the suggestions I really like is a skill book that can increase strafing speed, that is one great solution to this issue.

How does that make sense compared to EVE's mechanics ? This comparison is made for a reason. Because it's mostly EVE players who have trouble dealing with the movement of ennemies in Dust 514 that complained about "dancers". Completely obliterating the fact that those parameters exists in EVE.

I would like to just add that nerfing strafing is also nerfing individual skill.

It isn't anything like a solution to this issue. All making it tied to a skill would do is put a delay in before you could expect everyone to be strafing at fast speeds again. It is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether fights should or should not emphasize strafing in the first place.



You have absolutely no evidence that this is the case and are making totally blind assertions. It isn't necessary to make things up in order to have an opinion on this issue.



It emphasizes different skills beyond the ability to rapidly move side-to-side while shooting a target doing the same. As others have said, it emphasizes tactical play over arcade-style play. It is not simply a matter of more skill-demanding versus less.

I thought about something : In Eve Online, you have speed tanking. For those who don't know what it is, here's a short but obvious explanation.

Quite frequently, fights in EVE see people orbiting around their target to ease gun tracking of their turrets. During those fights, one thing is of great importance : The opposition between the speed of your target and the tracking speed of your turret.

Thus, some fights can be very disturbing. A very fast frigate can in the end take down a battleship as its turrets wont be able to follow it properly while the frigate can peacefully kill the battleship. But speed is not the only thing that matters, there's also dealing with the distance from wich you orbit the target. The closer you get, the harder it is for the turrets to track you.

So in EVE speed and movement is of great matter in the tactical approach of a fight. You can't just say "Hey got the big ship, big guns and massive HP amount, i'll screw anything muahahaha"

=> There is a a dynamic of movement in gun fights. Dodging and adapting to target's agility


=> Now, let's transpose that to Dust 514.

We have various speed depending on the suit you pick. A bit like frigates, cruiser, BS etc... But now, we have a strafe speed that's mostly equivalent for all of them and has been overall reduced.

Wich means that no matter who you're facing, your tracking skills (AIM) dont need to adapt to the mobility of the target. Except when it's running wich is not a problem as it cant fire while doing so. While in EVE a fast ship orbiting and changing the distance from where it's firing IS firing.

How does that make sense compared to EVE's mechanics ? This comparison is made for a reason. Because it's mostly EVE players who have trouble dealing with the movement of ennemies in Dust 514 that complained about "dancers". Completely obliterating the fact that those parameters exists in EVE.

Some will say that some suits can still flee a fight faster than others, but to me, this would be closer to alignment time and throttle to reach warp speed and flee from a solar system than actual "fight skill"

Other will say that it is now fighting clever and take cover. But that's not GunFight Dynamics to me. It's basic brain game and no matter how arcadey a game is, working with covers is ALWAYS required if you're at least a decent player. I dont remember playing like a crazy rush guy in previous dust build. And if running out of cover wasnt as punishing as it was supposed to be, it was all on hit detection flaws.


So, here is my conclusion. I couldnt understand CCP's choice regarding this major cut in gunfights gameplay but i couldnt find why. Then it hit me. Because it's basically in contradiction with EVE. Give us back Precursor strafe speed.

How i feel about this is, strafing speeds were fine, the suits already took a good notch out of stamina when you jumped so you could only jump a few times anyway.. to fix the bunny hopping issue why not just decrease over all stamina for the scout while increasing its regen rate? so it could only jump like twice.. leave the strafe speed alone.

Edit: i guess to elaborate more, make running consume less stamina and jumping consume the same, with less overall stamina.

As a player who is tactical and does strafe, the speeds on the scout suit strafe speed were to high. But in doing that they also reduced all the others suits lateral movements.

Again CCP/Devs took an axe to the problem instead of a scalpel.

Adjustments need to be made in small increments not HUGE. If CCP would have done a reasonable amount of adjustment to scout suits, and left the others alone. Would we be having this conversation?

Ah i play mostly a scout with tactical/SMG for the spray n pray, so i will blame that for me only noticing it on the scout.

I'm not sure if I'm imagining it or not, but on the Assault it feels like strafing is actually slightly biased to the right?

I would like to just add that nerfing strafing is also nerfing individual skill. Add to that the use of hit scan verse ballistics and what you get is a completely different game. The continual push towards a shoot first gear quality game and away from individual skill is really concerning.

It isn't anything like a solution to this issue. All making it tied to a skill would do is put a delay in before you could expect everyone to be strafing at fast speeds again. It is entirely irrelevant to the question of whether fights should or should not emphasize strafing in the first place.



You have absolutely no evidence that this is the case and are making totally blind assertions. It isn't necessary to make things up in order to have an opinion on this issue.



It emphasizes different skills beyond the ability to rapidly move side-to-side while shooting a target doing the same. As others have said, it emphasizes tactical play over arcade-style play. It is not simply a matter of more skill-demanding versus less.

First, i agree with you that a skillbook isnt actually a good idea. It may open a breach to reach higher straf speed than we had in precursor if badly calibrate. Once more, i want to be very clear ! I, personnaly, don't want a rush and jump FPS either. I just want to feel like my character can actually pull off a decent dodge movement by straffing (as we can't prone or else) so i can be sure, when i died, that the guy in front of me is actually a good one and didnt just kill me because he started firing 1 sec before i did.
And hell, i hate bunny hopping and now it's pretty much all i can do (2-3 times) when i need some air in a fight where i can't get cover.

Precursor movement speed were perfectly fine. As i said before, the sole problem was hit detection that made some bad straffing move work anyway. I'm pretty confident that with this new improved HD, precursor straffing wouldnt be as powerfull as everyone is implying. A guy behind a cover, playing smart would beat the **** out of a strafffing guy in the open quickly IF he knows his way with aiming. If he doesnt, is that a reason to help him through slowing down the game ? REALLY not my opinion.

Nova said that this game needs people to die. Again, this improved HD would have been way sufficient to avoid people going with madmen ratio. Also, CODEX wont prevent some guy having extraordinary high ratio. (Wait till heavies wake up with this slow movement for all suits.....)

Second, regarding my "assumption", i'll let you know that i'm here for a long time and actually know where biggest posters come from : PS3 or EVE. And believe me, only a few PS3 dude bitched about straffing. I dont want to blame EVErs especially as they're not the ones making changes to the game. But i'm kinda pissed of by the movement in the game in CODEX.
Altough, in the end my comparison regarding EVE online and straf speed being more or less speed tanking in EVE is still valid.

Sorry if you took this misplace agression for you.

Once more, cause i want that to be very clear, i dont think many of us wants this game to go "light speed". Just not that slow, not to a point where i have trouble even recognizing the gun play at some point

So I think we are coming down to suits and speed of those suits. The strafing is all equal in all the suits, when it should be

Scout>Assault>Logistics>Heavy as far as speed of strafing and movement. But thats not the case, as others have pointed out, all the suits have the same strafing speed.

I also agree with a previous post, weapons and strafing should be tied in somehow. If I have a heavy machine gun or Forge gun, that should change my strafing speed, while a SMG should be lighter and offer more strafing speed.

Edit:

CCP is any of the devs reading this thread, just a yes or no would be sufficient for us all, we just want to make sure our threads that are civil discussion are not falling on deaf ears.

I was heading here to post a lengthy reply. But after reading the whole thread I can say this...

Laurent for president!!! +1 on Everything that man has written.

Hate on the field, love on the forums

thanks mate

I think the strafing speed change can be reverted now with the improved hit detection. Maybe also buff the HPs of suits too to compensate? My gun plays is gone too with this build, and I was never big on straifing to begin with. It just feels "wrong" now and I die much more that previously. Could just be down to gear right now, though. I sure hope so or I won't play this for much longer.

Ok, so you like the tactical side more. But I have to disagree with your thought on " It's easy enough to beat people with better gear than you have. You just have to play it smart", once you get better gear then it becomes less and less about skill and more about the gear you have earned.

The game has a good feel to it right now. I will admit that the movement is a little too slow, especially for Scouts. We have to remember that our Dust characters aren't restricted to "human" traits as much as we think. From what I gathered out of the Dust story-line, the clones are larger, faster and more agile than standard humans. With that kept in the back of your minds, we should be able to run faster and jump higher than normal. The only thing I would like to see change is the movement speeds have to be adjusted based on dropsuits, mods and skills. Obviously, a Scout should be able to out-manuever a Heavy any day. The strafing speed should not be the same for each suit and the mercs should be able to jump higher than an average person... with some limitations (Scouts jumping over tanks is a little extreme).

Overall, I think the game is moving in the right direction. Of course, there will be changes that we all will have to adapt to and that most people won't like simply because it's not what they're used to (see OP). It obviously warrants some discussion and I think everyone here has some very good input on the subject. With that being said, I think CCP will release a game that we will all enjoy.

Antilles Maximus
Zion TCD

How do you think that? BF is one of the most tactical games on the market. That its selling point.

But Please explain. TY