bringing back the creodron to it's former glory will balance the game.

Seriously?

seriously

And why do you think those suits unbalance the game more then any other Aurum item? Each of them has to be bought with real money, and every player will be able to do so when the game launches. The four drop suit BPOs you refer to are just Aurum items, and like all Autrum items, they save their user some ISK at the expense of dropping real money on the game. The BPOs are simply a discount option to the usual Aurum drop suits, meant for people who are dedicated to the game and are willing to spend more then a few cents at once. Dust is free to play, so someone needs to pay for all those who literally play for free.

Note: I currently own all four of these suits (Two of the dragonfly). A Nerf to these suits effects me and the soul reason I bought the second Merc pack.. But it needs to be done.

How much ISK would you be willing to sell your extra dragonfly for once the player market opened?

bringing back the creodron to it's former glory will balance the game.

After the initial buy, I lose absolutely no money, AUR or ISK when using those suits. Thus, I can save far more isk each time I use those suits giving me an advantage for the whole time I play Dust which could be years. If the suits have a cost per use, then I still get the skin which I purchased but I do not have a permanent financial advantage over everyone who does not own that item.

...dedicated players who play frequently and over a long period of time are not forced to drop obscene amounts of money for single use Aur items. Which is what seems to happen in other ftp games: in order to stay competitive and fully enjoy the game, you have to pay an amount of money that stands in no relation to the monthly fee of traditional MMO games, "free-to-play" in this case is just a way to rip people off. I hope CCP ist not trying this with Dust.

What I would like to see happen is that the suits are merely a BPO which you need to build the suits theself to use. The building comes from ISK or ISK based materials. If a tier 1 suit costs 10k to use, the special BPOs may require 9.5k isk... Giving you an advantage but nothing that will mess with the equality of the game.

What I would like to see happen is that the suits are merely a BPO which you need to build the suits theself to use. The building comes from ISK or ISK based materials. If a tier 1 suit costs 10k to use, the special BPOs may require 9.5k isk... Giving you an advantage but nothing that will mess with the equality of the game.

What I would like to see happen is that the suits are merely a BPO which you need to build the suits theself to use. The building comes from ISK or ISK based materials. If a tier 1 suit costs 10k to use, the special BPOs may require 9.5k isk... Giving you an advantage but nothing that will mess with the equality of the game. Having the build cost associated with ISK will allow us to earn the suits rather than needing to continously pay for them.

Just played a match with the new suits.

1st -- The Sever Logistics makes me feel like I'm the unstealthiest ninja ever.
2nd -- As far as what I used my extra fitting slots/pg for -- yeah, none of that got used.
3rd -- The only kill I made in that match was with a scrambler pistol that I paid for with isk
4th -- completely right, the 16k isk per suit that anyone else would have to pay for these is completely gamebreaking. It means that if we get redlined we'll have an unfair advantage against the people who are redlining us because we won't have to switch down to militia fits to make sure we turn a profit.

This is a broader critique of how they're handling the AUR items available to us, or rather how they're mishandling it in my view, but I think the OP has a point and I think making the bonus dropsuits actually just bonus dropsuit skins would have been the way to go.

I'm not sure you know the full backstory for the game setting. All of our gear is "constructed" on the spot with the exception of the vehicles. Each "item" you have is a construction credit ticket (BPC or BPO) that allows you to use the supplies from the reclaimers to have your clone outfitted as you see fit.

The suits are BPOs. That's why you don't have to resupply them. We just have automated manufacturing to outfit our clone bodies.

That said it costs 50 aur to buy a suit on the market (placing the value of 1 AUR at ~3k isk). The dev post indicated that the value of the suits were placed at $6, so the AUR cost of one of these suits would be ~12000 aur (36,000,000 isk). And now that I've done the math I'm glad to say that I got my merc pack, even if some of these make me feel super unstealthy.

I do like the points you bring up. The Sever logistics makes me feel like a creamsicle. I usually use the PG/CPU as much as I can. My Logi has his PG capped and 4 free CPU. One highslot is missing but they are useless for his current purpose.

Point #4 is what I'm really getting at. When my team is losing by a lot I have a cheap suit that I can field which is compairable to the majority of suits the enemy is fielding. I like the advantage, but it's very unfair.

In specific response to this, that's BS. I'm not going to spend actual money that I work for to save a couple k isk a game, and I hope no one else would either. If 0.5k isk a suit is what's going to take you from losing ISK to gaining ISK each game then you should consider switching up your playing style. I could go for this kind of model if it took the suits from being 10k isk to only being 1k or even 2k, but from 10k to 9.5k is wayyy to little of a change for me to spend actual coin.

Yes, that's not a bad idea at all. But like Nyefari said, the savings in ISK would have to be far more significant, like halfing the usual price of the item, at least. Otherwise, buying such a BPO would require you to commit yourself to the game for the next 6 month on a regular basis in order to get you money's worth, which wouldn't be feasible.

Because you were talking about the equality of the game, I'd like to emphasize: since we're in a free-to-play game, there will always be an inequality of some sort. And by throwing enough money at Dust, you could have an unlimited supply even of prototype drop suits if you wanted to.

Imo the whole discussion boils down to the question: how much Isk should the game allow a player to save for paying X amount of money to CCP?

Point #4 was completely sarcastic. I'd spend that much on grenades for all of my fittings if it didn't kill my cpu so badly.

Yes, that's not a bad idea at all. But like Nyefari said, the savings in ISK would have to be far more significant, like halfing the usual price of the item, at least. Otherwise, buying such a BPO would require you to commit yourself to the game for the next 6 month on a regular basis in order to get you money's worth, which wouldn't be feasible.

Because you were talking about the equality of the game, I'd like to emphasize: since we're in a free-to-play game, there will always be an inequality of some sort. And by throwing enough money at Dust, you could have an unlimited supply even of prototype drop suits if you wanted to.

Imo the whole discussion boils down to the question: how much Isk should the game allow a player to save for paying X amount of money to CCP?

These suits don't affect balance, really. The T1 suits are cheap...there was never a time, where I could not afford to buy my T1 fit...and I amassed 18mio ISK using this fit (and a militia scout with a T1 shotgun) before getting the free T1 suits now...if you can't afford a T1 suit, you're doing it wrong...a free T1 suit will not help you very much...

Also, the difference between militia and T1 suits is minimal...that will not make the difference between winning or loosing a firefight.

Well it hit my point exactly. If you aren't losing isk for losing, something is wrong.

I've purchased all the suits and if they change anything about them ill be pissed. They are fine, type one suits are far from game breaking.

Oh and it did have a cost 20 bucks yo

you still have to fit the suit with mods, guns, equipment, etc so its not completely free. just the suit is not going to cost you. i see nothing wrong with this.

Getting the thread back on track. The permanent suits need to have a cost per use.

There are now four permanent dropsuits that have standard dropsuit stats. These are currently very unbalancing for the game due to the fact there is no loss associated with their death.

I hope that soon these permanent suits will have a build cost to them. Either in isk or raw materials if manufacturing ever comes into the game. Obviously the cost should be equal or very slightly (5%) reduced from the standard suits they represent.

Sadly this would tick off a lot of people who just want a large advantage over other people but something needs to be done to maintain a balance within the game.

Note: I currently own all four of these suits (Two of the dragonfly). A Nerf to these suits effects me and the soul reason I bought the second Merc pack.. But it needs to be done.

I think even BPOs should require materials to manufacture. Maybe for factional warfare, the militia will pay for it, but in low/null, everything should have a cost.

Well lucky for the skinweave, raven, valor and sever suits!
Feel free to use militia suits that you have to replace with isk each time you die (if they give in to your request to make them BPC), I'll stick with my BPO suits for now

Everything Cross Atu said is not only correct, it's agreeable.

As a side note, I don't even see what the problem is. "Oh boy oh boy, these people are wearing T1 suits but don't have to restock their suits now. I wanna ***** moan and complain because I'm too greedy to spend real money to get it too."

Well boohoo effing hoo. These people are putting down REAL money, not monopoly money, not ISK, not SP. REAL MONEY, money that they could spend on a THOUSAND different REAL LIFE things that would be far more useful to them than what they spend on here for the AUR to buy an item.

If these suits weren't BPO, what in god's unholy blasphemous name would they have a reason to buy these suits with AUR they could spend on skill boosters or whatever else the eggheads at CCP come up with. Some nice color changes? I'd feel like a mentally ******** monkey if I wasted money to get a color change that I have to restock with AUR. Well, actually I am one cause I did spend money on an AUR suit that took too damned much to restock.

People who buy a BPO suit with real money shouldn't have that taken from them. They need a reason to bother putting down real money for something that's more than just a color change. So if you really wanna make them BPCs, then give them stats that are superior to non-AUR suits... Then have the game broken by that concept. Otherwise, quit complaining. These people aren't given a huge advantage over others, hell, it's basically going from militia(crappy) gear to standard(at least I won't die twenty times now) gear. It's not a huge improvement and won't break the game.

What will, is if they allow a person to spend AUR and get a BPO proto suit or any lvl dropship/HAV. THAT is a game breaker, this... This is nothing. This is just all of you whining because you don't want to spend AUR to get them.

isk is real money. right now 600 million isk is worth 20USD

For EVE players, as far as I know so far we Dust Bunnies can't transfer what we earn to that. Corps are going to be changing that I think, but from what I read. It's not that a DB can just transfer it over, he has to give his isk to his CORP director, and then that director can give it to an EVE CEO to change it to dollars.

I don't know about you, but i am NOT going to give the isk I earn in game to a corp director who's gonna screw me over. So until they implement a way for players to change their isk to dollars while playing Dust, which I hope they don't. It isn't real money for us Dust Bunnies. EVE is a completely different matter though, they can have their isk as real money and their CEOs who screw over their corp members and all that crap. We're mercs though, soldiers of fortune. At worst, we're security! We shouldn't have that option.

isk is real money. right now 600 million isk is worth 20USD

I agree with many of the points made. The balancing with isk, aur, plex and materials will be a difficult and time consuming project for CCP. My only addition would be to add my voice to an earlier post in the pages:

Step back from the game and see that CCP is a business. Businesses are in business for a profit, the fact that they get to make games is a perk. To turn a profit they will find ways to make money, distress a few players, but not to the point of breaking the game - a promise of CCP's was not a pay to win (cavity thukker aside). And that is still the way it remains. I get a permanent suit BPO because I gave the business money, in return i don't have to worry about Isk for militia level drop suits. I can use my ISK savings for other things. It is just another tactic - adapt to survive - sacrifice to get what you want.

when your suit gets trampled by a vk.0 come talk to us. There are better dropsuits than the BPOs that cost ISK and should stay that way. That way, BPOs can die risk free at the cost being at odds to those who expended an unreal yet more valuable asset in the game. Kind of weird but it works out.

So, return it to being the only gun worth using? I agree that it was over-nerfed the same way HAVs were at first, and needs a bit of a damage boost to bring it back in line with the other rifles, but it's E3 build stats were ridiculous.

Now what happens with they have vk0 BPOs? It could actually happen, especially since their are now very limited BO LAV BPOs.

The cost of the non-Merc Pack BPOs is prohibitive unless they're your primary AUR expenditure.

They AREN'T game-changing, and (again, with the exception of the Dragonfly) they still require the relevant SP investment.

There's NOTHING about ANY of the BPOs available that can't be done equally well, or better, with sensible use of ISK. There's nothing about any of the BPOs that gives you a real advantage in battle. They're STANDARD gear AT BEST, there are 2 tiers of equipment above them for EVERY role in the game.

The cost of the non-Merc Pack BPOs is prohibitive unless they're your primary AUR expenditure.

They AREN'T game-changing, and (again, with the exception of the Dragonfly) they still require the relevant SP investment.

There's NOTHING about ANY of the BPOs available that can't be done equally well, or better, with sensible use of ISK. There's nothing about any of the BPOs that gives you a real advantage in battle. They're STANDARD gear AT BEST, there are 2 tiers of equipment above them for EVERY role in the game.

seriously

I do like the points you bring up. The Sever logistics makes me feel like a creamsicle. I usually use the PG/CPU as much as I can. My Logi has his PG capped and 4 free CPU. One highslot is missing but they are useless for his current purpose.

Point #4 is what I'm really getting at. When my team is losing by a lot I have a cheap suit that I can field which is compairable to the majority of suits the enemy is fielding. I like the advantage, but it's very unfair.

Proto BPOs in general circulation would be game breaking, yes. It could actually happen, as you point out, but then again CCP deciding to introduce a $50/month subscription could happen.

Tournament prizes such as the BO LAV BPOs aren't really game breaking as they will be in such limited supply that they can't have much of an impact. That said, I'd rather see the tourney prizes be limited run blueprint copies.

There are now four permanent dropsuits that have standard dropsuit stats. These are currently very unbalancing for the game due to the fact there is no loss associated with their death.

I hope that soon these permanent suits will have a build cost to them. Either in isk or raw materials if manufacturing ever comes into the game. Obviously the cost should be equal or very slightly (5%) reduced from the standard suits they represent.

Sadly this would tick off a lot of people who just want a large advantage over other people but something needs to be done to maintain a balance within the game.

Note: I currently own all four of these suits (Two of the dragonfly). A Nerf to these suits effects me and the soul reason I bought the second Merc pack.. But it needs to be done.

One thing to keep in mind is that a militia suit, with no adjustments, is 100% free.

The point of the BPO just like in EVE is you pay more upfront for it but then it lasts forever.

You can also save ISK by using AUR for other single use suits as well. Thereby giving you an ISK advantage. Is this pay to win too? Your still using real money to help cost you less ISK in game.

There is a lot to read and I have to admit I got bored. I understand the OP's point of view though that the BPO should have some cost attached to it. Just because you own a blueprint doesn't mean it doesn't cost ISK to build one. I think a reduced cost would suffice. 25 to 50% of its equal grade dropsuit considering all you need are materials and fabrication costs.

True, but you also have to pay to manufacture it. If they implemented this, I'd personally love it. Also, keep in mind that I use these BPOs to run matches for higher profit. I make on average 200k a match running with these suits because they give me the extra stats above militia.



Yes, but you pay once, then never have to pay again. At 12500/50 you'd have to use 250 of these BPO suits to equal the same cost as the BPC Aur varient... Which I've probably used up 1000 in less than 2 months. I'm glad its saving me money on my cheap fits, but its not quite fair. I plan on playing this game for years so the cost per death will quickly amount to 1 AUR or less.



This is another Idea I'd be all for except that it should be more inline with Eve. 10% profit when it hits all the research and manufacturing marks.

Yes, but you pay once, then never have to pay again. At 12500/50 you'd have to use 250 of these BPO suits to equal the same cost as the BPC Aur varient... Which I've probably used up 1000 in less than 2 months. I'm glad its saving me money on my cheap fits, but its not quite fair. I plan on playing this game for years so the cost per death will quickly amount to 1 AUR or less.

Since I just barely missed out on the suits, I wasn't able to check out their stats.

One thing to keep in mind is that a militia suit, with no adjustments, is 100% free. All the weapons, modules, equipment and suit are BPO. You can say, add a nanohive and still run that entire suit at only the cost of a nanohive. Or if you change out a single module, the only cost would be the module.

With the skinweaves, there is no BPO weapons, modulus or equipment (unless you have one specifically to use, like the Toxin SMG or something). So in order to use the same exact loadout you did with the militia suit, it will cost since you now have to buy all the militia gear to outfit the suit.

The only advantage is that you no longer have to buy a suit, which is probably a very small gain, if no gain, over a 100% pure militia suit with BPO everything. And the stat gains are probably extremely minimal vs a BPO militia suit.

However I would still like to see the stats on the skinweaves.

You pay to manufacture a BPO which is used to make BPCs with various amounts of runs specified at time of creation. The BPCs are then used to run off the actual product. BPOs, as far as I remember, aren't used to make the final product. Mind you that manufacturing and production will be entirely Eve side. It's infinitesimal to the Nth degree that resource gathering, processing, and manufacturing will ever appear in Dust.

Also, if you think saving ISK with a BPO is game breaking, then you should be of the opinion that all positive ISK gains are game breaking. In the end, it's not how much ISK or gear you have, it's how you use it to win or loose.

And yes, Eve players are LMAOing at this.

If you are still using a type 1 suit after a year, then you will probably be getting pummeled and need it to be infinite in order to make up for the deaths you have. The type 1 suit is a cheap, baseline hold over until you can unlock the type A. It's functionable, it's workable, but in order to use any serious gear on it you need to upgrade to a better suit. If you could fully outfit a type 1 with complex plates, GEK or above, decent 'nades, an injector or hive, a sidearm, and advanced damage mods or shield extenders then I would agree, but as it is you have to be careful how you fit it no matter how high you get your engineering and electronics skills. Since using it keeps you behind the curb on modules and gear, there is no reason it shouldn't be free to use indefinitely. By using it you are putting yourself at a disadvantage, perhaps not at first, but definitely down the road, and that is payment enough for having a "free" fit you bought with real money. Dwindling relevance and reliability.

Dust has two things going for it that no other FPS has touched: A persistant world and fights with real Risk vs Reward. I'd rather CCP not break either of those anytime soon.

Honestly, with either Militia OR Standard gear, there's minimal risk whether you're running blueprints or ISK-per-spawn versions. There's also a lot less reward to using blueprints vs. replaceable items.

I have two characters with identical fittings except for one factor - one of my characters has a Dragonfly Scout suit, and the other runs the fitting with an ISK-per-use Standard Scout Dropsuit (identical stats to the Dragonfly).

With almost identical relevant skills, and almost identical performance in a match, the suit where I'm paying ISK for every death typically earns me more - both in terms of SP and ISK. There's apparently a modifier applied based on the value of the gear you're bringing into the battle, and blueprints, due to their permanent nature, are treated as 0 cost, meaning a reduction in the value of your post-match rewards.

EDIT: Note that I'm phasing out my use of the term "BPO" in favour of "blueprint" since DUST doesn't seem to use the "blueprint copy" and "blueprint original" mechanics of EVE, and the in-game tutorials refer to permanent items as "blueprints" and not BPOs.