Welcome to New Eden

Where discovery of a rapidly adopted flavor-of-the-month tactic that turns people into solopwnmobiles is eventually punished by making it "useless" in the next patch

Get used to it, because it will happen again and again

Nope, not exaggerating, and certainly not any more exaggerated than "wha wha tanks are unstoppable". Try it yourself. Tanks can't run anymore, and the railgun is useless against anything other than a stationary vehicle or a turret installation. Tried to kill a forge gunner who was standing still, put the **** right at his feet but it didnt so squat.

You sir fail at tank fitting then.

Just be glad they didn't un-nerf the AV nades which in current iterations are still quite powerful when they work.

HAV's are now useless expensive deathtraps that can take max 3-4 hits from a milita swarm launcher before going down. Also 0 chance of getting away as they turn slower than dogturds in molasses.

Once again CCP ruins gameplay because LAZY people can't be bothered to learn how to counter/defend themselves.

Stop, just stop. You run a big old tank and have been dreading this tank update for weeks, because even you knew tanks were OP. I've seen all your cry baby posts about tanks, but be realistic here.

Stop exaggerating on 3-4 militia swarm launchers and tanks die BS, you have not even tested it out yet.

This day should be known as Tank QQ day, or the day the tanks died.

HAV's are now useless expensive deathtraps that can take max 3-4 hits from a milita swarm launcher before going down. Also 0 chance of getting away as they turn slower than dogturds in molassas.

Once again CCP ruins gameplay because LAZY people can't be bothered to learn how to counter/defend themselves.

I laughed at your opening statement. 3-4 hits from a militia swarm. WTF are you doing you kitten getting hit from 3-4 swarms.

Can't get away from them now.

And over here in this exhibit is a liar, swarm launcher behavior was not adjusted in this patch and still doesn't work properly.

Can't get away from them now.

HAV's are now useless expensive deathtraps that can take max 3-4 hits from a milita swarm launcher before going down. Also 0 chance of getting away as they turn slower than dogturds in molassas.

Once again CCP ruins gameplay because LAZY people can't be bothered to learn how to counter/defend themselves.

HAV's are now useless expensive deathtraps that can take max 3-4 hits from a milita swarm launcher before going down. Also 0 chance of getting away as they turn slower than dogturds in molassas.

Once again CCP ruins gameplay because LAZY people can't be bothered to learn how to counter/defend themselves.

HAV's are now useless expensive deathtraps that can take max 3-4 hits from a milita swarm launcher before going down. Also 0 chance of getting away as they turn slower than dogturds in molassas.

Once again CCP ruins gameplay because LAZY people can't be bothered to learn how to counter/defend themselves.

I have not had a chance to play with these new changes but from what I gather in the dev post and the replies in this thread is that and tank is going to not be a one man job anymore...I know, kinda obvious because that is exactly what wolfman said.

However, I don't think a lot of people realize the vision CCP has for tanks. I am in no way affiliated with CCP nor to I frequent the IRC and thus have no other knowledge or accreditation besides wasting too much of my valuable work time on these forums. Alas I give you what I think is CCP's vision for tanks.

~One driver (required)
~Two turret operators inside the tank
~A logi on the ground fighting with an AR/SMG and armor repping when necessary
~An assault or heavy (or both) to help keep the logi alive and keep back AV troops tossing nades and shooting forge/swarm.
~IMO, they want a tank to be a vessel that is supported by a whole squad and it will also take a whole squad to bring it down.

(I know points may seem obvious [or completely wrong] but I can't help but read the banter on the forums and think that others truly do not understand the end game here. When you watch CCP produced videos, look that the multiple tanks rolling up to an objective with a dozen infantry troops right next to them.)

This damage buff is probably temporary until they fix the bugs.

He mad

HAV's are now useless expensive deathtraps that can take max 3-4 hits from a milita swarm launcher before going down. Also 0 chance of getting away as they turn slower than dogturds in molassas.

Once again CCP ruins gameplay because LAZY people can't be bothered to learn how to counter/defend themselves.

This is asinine. The health makes it so support doesn't even matter.

Whiners will always win - see politics. Instead of making semi plausible facilities that give a reason for mechanized and traditional infantry (and coincidentally a place for the hybrid mtac) we are turning them into juggernaut suits with special weapons designed for soloing them. Not fun for either side.

Can't get away from them now.

I just tried it out, go look for yourself.

You should be one to talk all STB runs is tanks.

So your mad that you cant go 25 and 0 in a match with a single tank?

But that was choice. STB can shoot people without tanks too. 3 years of MAG experience. I've fought against them or 2.

Lowering health does not make a HAV a squad tool. I am sorry if you don't agree.

Oh please like it is so bad.

I just got out of a match where i genuinely went AV because there were 3 tanks spawned. Between them not holding still and Sleepy Zan sniping, the tanks stayed alive through out the game. That coupled with the fact that half the missals are autistic and AV grenades working 1:3 times I can safely say that if you are crying you just flat out suck at life.

Firstly, use the correct version of you're. Secondly, no. Kdr doesn't matter to me. What matters is that the tank has a measure of survivability, which with a quadruple nerf it has gone down significantly.

Lol well i gota rethink my dropship fittings thats for sure . I'm dieing ALot now lolz.

(Side note, a week or so ago there was a prominent tank player on my team so I decide to jump in his tank to see what he has on it, try and learn a few things as I usually try and hunt him with my squad (doing a little reconnaissance) and what do I find but an awesome main turret for him to use and two literal pea shooters on the small turrets. I have to assume this is for two reasons, one to deter people from catching a free ride and stealing his kills and two Maybe...maybe he doesn't have the PG/CPU for better small turrets? Seemed like he was geared for a solo operation to me.)

Yay for whiners. We get things done!
A) (whining is purely perspective based. Chances are if you're saying "whiner won" then you lost.)

B) Dropship people, how would it be if you had more CPU/PG to fit more interesting options? Would that help at all? Or do we need chaff launchers / PDS to deal with incomming swarms? Forgeguns should wipe you out tbh... But I doubt there's much

C) Anyone thinking about MTACs, they will have weak points too, and hopefully be able to get knocked down (really, bipedal mechs? Stupid stupid stupid.)

HAV's are now useless expensive deathtraps that can take max 3-4 hits from a milita swarm launcher before going down. Also 0 chance of getting away as they turn slower than dogturds in molassas.

Once again CCP ruins gameplay because LAZY people can't be bothered to learn how to counter/defend themselves.

Hi everyone,

We have been listening to the feedback regarding vehicles and AV gameplay, particularly the HAVGÇÖs, after our last update. IGÇÖm happy to tell you we have spent some time looking over the data, discussing the issues, and making a number of changes we would like you to help us try out.

The changes are aimed at reducing the overall power of the HAVGÇÖs and their ability to solo without consequences on the battlefield. We do want the HAVGÇÖs to be powerful but we also want them to require more support from both their gunners and friendly infantry to reach their full potential on the battlefield.

To this end we will be streaming in the following changes, getting your feedback and looking at the resulting stats to gauge the overall impact the changes have on the effectiveness of the HAV.

...

These will of course not be the last updates in this area, we are working on more as we speak.

Cheers

CCP Wolfman

Nope, not exaggerating, and certainly not any more exaggerated than "wha wha tanks are unstoppable". Try it yourself. Tanks can't run anymore, and the railgun is useless against anything other than a stationary vehicle or a turret installation. Tried to kill a forge gunner who was standing still, put the **** right at his feet but it didnt so squat.

If you could get it at his feet while he was stationary, why didn't you just put it right through his chest? That's what I always used to do. Don't rely on the splash damage..

If you could get it at his feet while he was stationary, why didn't you just put it right through his chest? That's what I always used to do. Don't rely on the splash damage.

Also, the slowness of the turret wouldn't even matter if HAVs had separate driver and gunner positions. I don't understand why HAV users are so opposed to this when it would increase the effectiveness of their vehicles while simultaneously countering the whining of all the infantry players about how they're one-man force-multipliers. And yes, I used HAVs almost exclusively in the E3 build because I wanted to try something new, having spent the previous build in Dropships. So I'm not one of the whiners trying to find further ways to nerf something that's been nerfed enough already.
As someone who used to use HAVs, I would actually love to just drive the thing, and have another member of my squad run the gun. That's what headsets are for.

Didummmms poor tanky wanky lose his god mode, awww shame.

I agree, I use a railgun on the tank and when they buffed the **** out of the splash damage this build I though "uhhhhhwut?" it turned the railgun into an infantry eating machine which doesn't seem right. Its so stupidly easy to get kills with the 400+ splash damage on the railgun I felt bad using it. in the E3 build you really had to get a direct hit with it, and that felt very reasonable to me. It required more skill and forced people who wanted to be able to kill other HAVs to need support gunners to deal with infantry.

Again, HAVs in E3 build was FAR better and I think we need to move towards where it was at that point.

I'd like for the tanks to be even more powerful than they were but far more difficult to use and something that takes several months to train into. They should be like a battleship. Crazy strong but suseptable to a well trained group of frigates (Infantry).

Right now it takes very little SP to train into compaired to how much SP you can get back in a very short period of time.

If you could get it at his feet while he was stationary, why didn't you just put it right through his chest? That's what I always used to do. Don't rely on the splash damage.

Also, the slowness of the turret wouldn't even matter if HAVs had separate driver and gunner positions. I don't understand why HAV users are so opposed to this when it would increase the effectiveness of their vehicles while simultaneously countering the whining of all the infantry players about how they're one-man force-multipliers. And yes, I used HAVs almost exclusively in the E3 build because I wanted to try something new, having spent the previous build in Dropships. So I'm not one of the whiners trying to find further ways to nerf something that's been nerfed enough already.
As someone who used to use HAVs, I would actually love to just drive the thing, and have another member of my squad run the gun. That's what headsets are for.

Admittedly, the HAVs in the E3 build were a bit overpowered against infantry, but part of that was due to an inability to coordinate since you never even knew who you'd be playing with. Also, the AV grenades were a joke, and the REs were far more effective against infantry than vehicles.

See, what you're really seeing here is that they seem overpowered in comparison to the performance of the tools used to kill them. I don't think we'll see an end to this debate until they have a hard counter. A vehicle one, not an infantry weapon. If anything, I would support a return to the full capability of AV weapons at the beginning of this build, the Forge Gun being returned to its old range, and the implementation of a Gunship vehicle, as that's what such helicopters are used for in real life. With those in place, you could return HAVs to their E3 build effectiveness (though I still support separate driver and gunner positions) and they would no longer feel like unstoppable juggernauts while still remaining effective assets. Heck, since they're HAVs and not just tanks, allow them to carry guided SAM launchers and flak cannons as turret options to provide a hard counter against heavier air targets.

To test the splash damage?

Aint that the truth

Oh by no means do I think the E3 build was perfect in terms of vehicles and AV, but you have to agree things felt more balanced than they are now. With the addition of pilot suits and passive skill bonuses, I think a nerf to vehicles was in order since those additions would ultimately buff them back up.

Even so my point being that HAVs need to be strong since they are after all tanks, however with some teamwork a team with moderate AV should be able to make that HAV run for its life. A well coordinated group with good AV weapons should be able to outright kill it. I think we were far closer to that dynamic in the last build than we are now.

Oh by no means do I think the E3 build was perfect in terms of vehicles and AV, but you have to agree things felt more balanced than they are now. With the addition of pilot suits and passive skill bonuses, I think a nerf to vehicles was in order since those additions would ultimately buff them back up.

Even so my point being that HAVs need to be strong since they are after all tanks, however with some teamwork a team with moderate AV should be able to make that HAV run for its life. A well coordinated group with good AV weapons should be able to outright kill it. I think we were far closer to that dynamic in the last build than we are now.

No, to allow separated driver and gunner positions to coordinate.

Me and 2 other guys easily dropped a specced out Sagaris in under 5 seconds because we took the time to coordinate and spent SP and ISK in decent AV gear (but not proto). This is how it should be.

Exactly. It should require teamwork to take down an HAV. The only issue is that it should require an equal or greater level of teamwork to operate one.

i lol'd @OP
youmadbro? king of battlefield no more? seems youre the one whining. adapt or die. welcome to Eve. oh look! Darwin Torpedo

Mobius Wyvern:
"Yes, if you get a group of people working together to kill one of those things, it should go down. But that's what it should require, not a single guy with a proto swarm blowing them up on his lonesome and saying everything is balanced."

Thats what I'm saying. This morning I lost a well fitted, well tanked gunnlogi to one militia swarm. Can't get close enough to him to use blasters effectively, so running is the only option, which doesnt work on more open maps where your only cover from terrain is the rock spires.

I think that maps sucks for anyone who isn't a sniper haha. Though have they fixed pathing for swarms? because I swear to god whenever I try to use them on that map the rockets say "Hell with the lock!" and target the nearest spire.

I'd like for the tanks to be even more powerful than they were but far more difficult to use and something that takes several months to train into. They should be like a battleship. Crazy strong but suseptable to a well trained group of frigates (Infantry).

Right now it takes very little SP to train into compaired to how much SP you can get back in a very short period of time.

Paran, you lost a well fitted gunloggi to 1 militia swarm ??? you what ??? HUH ??? eh ???
Shut up. lol.

go back to CoD please.

The whole HAV vs. AV needed to be looked into...

Judging from what people are saying, I think this is only a quickfix whilst we are on the current build in order to make the game a little more playable. I'm sure things will change when the new build is rolled out.

Pretty much, swarms path still wonky. Straight into objects sometimes, and other times they stop on a dime, do 180's and hit their target. The last one is usually when a skilled dropship pilot (Sin3) dodges them.

Aaand back to the "skill" bullshit. Look, can we just not talk about skill anymore? Everyone seems to gloss right over the fact that EVERYONE defines it differently.

lets not reduce this thread to a gripe-fest about "skill" and "noob weapons".

1 guy with 4 volleys yea, go try it for yourself.

C'mon bruv, seriously, get a grip of yourself, who's QQing and whining now.

Nope, not exaggerating, and certainly not any more exaggerated than "wha wha tanks are unstoppable". Try it yourself. Tanks can't run anymore, and the railgun is useless against anything other than a stationary vehicle or a turret installation. Tried to kill a forge gunner who was standing still, put the **** right at his feet but it didnt so squat.

LMFAO

I haven't seen Bad Furry post in FOREVER

Nerf tanks, bam, whining thread front and center

BWUAHHAHAHAHA

JUSTICE!!!

You know...that is the idea...Tanks are not solopwnmobiles designed to squash hordes of infantry. You are supposed to kill the big guns (other tanks, turrets), while your support (infantry on foot, not passengers with small turrets) keep the heavies at bay.

Thats generally what I do, however, my infantry can now no longer engage swarmers and forgegunners due to their massive range, with one possible exception. Even if a swarmer got at close range that my infantry could kill him, he can just dumbfire spam rockets into the tank, because they do not require a lock to fire.

Mobius Wyvern:
"Yes, if you get a group of people working together to kill one of those things, it should go down. But that's what it should require, not a single guy with a proto swarm blowing them up on his lonesome and saying everything is balanced."

Thats what I'm saying. This morning I lost a well fitted, well tanked gunnlogi to one militia swarm. Can't get close enough to him to use blasters effectively, so running is the only option, which doesnt work on more open maps where your only cover from terrain is the rock spires.

If someone gets that close to you, they should be rewarded by being able to do more DPS. Thats like complaining shotguns do too much damage if they get close.

Well, people can spawn anywhere currently. Spawning should be restricted to bases and clone units. The problem is more prevalent in ambush matches, and it allows tankers and dropship gunners to own objectives by constantly shelling them because.

Also, previously I could pop them with a well placed tank round to prevent them getting that close. Not anymore I feel.

I can't wait to get back into the game, now. This is going to be epic!

Also, everybody needs to chill out. CCP is new to balancing FPS games, and Dust would be challenging to balance for anyone with the skill and market complexity.

Tanks appear to be getting a nerf in response to the AV nerf, which was in response to how overpowered AV was against non Tank vehicles. We're all getting wiped still, so none of this actually matters outside of the devs trying to figure out how to keep the game from being a tank fest without the AV weapons doing so much damage that they render all LAVs and dropships pointless.

Keep calm and carry on. By the end of this beta we will likely all have something we love nerfed to oblivion. If they have to do stuff like this now so that they don't have to do so once we stop getting wiped, so be it.

This goes back to a point I've made several times that tanks have no place on the battlefield currently other than to ruin gunfights. If they can't go around and squash infantry with impunity then they're considered useless.

They have no real purpose as of yet gameplay or strategy wise that can't be achieved with infantry. Maybe once installations become a part of battle strategy the different tank types will come into their own a bit as well.

Simply enhancing infantry and boosting team WP gain potential may be their place after all, though. I suggest they be given a permanent WP bonus bubble for a certain radius, similar to what you get with a defense order, that extends to the whole platoon, not just the squad of the tank. to encourage a sort of synergy between infantry and tank.

That is not a bad idea. As long as it is minor compared to actual squad bonuses.

+1
KCCO

+1 the KCCO, Chive on brother

You can still pop them off, it just requires more skill because it has to be a direct hit. Even so, no tank should be safe without 2 support gunners WITH active communication. Since the pilot has the widest field of vision, they need to be calling out infantry targets to their support gunners since the support gunners are really the best equipped to deal with nearby infantry threats. The main turret isn't helpless...but it should be difficult to use, especially if you go with a railgun.

For ambush, random spawning is really necessary lest people spend 80% of the match running to the battle...that's not going to fly. As for Skirmish, I just consider objectives as indestructible CRUs, I don't think people spawning at a location they captured is unreasonable.

As for your range concerns, in EVE, missiles and railguns have the longest ranges in the game, and since swarms are missiles and forge guns are basically railguns...this seems reasonable. The fact that railgun range got reduced is kinda stupid in that regard, but it does make the sharpshooter skill actually useful so I don't mind that so much.

The key is that some maps are simply not going to be good for tanks, and that's exactly how it should be. Plateaus for example is a HAV's wet dream, whereas Communications can be a nightmare if a dropship shows up. I mean this goes for any weapon, not just vehicles. I run a shotgun and SMG, and the Spire map is HORRIBLE for me since I need to run towards a firing squad of snipers across an open field...thats just the nature of the game. No weapon, vehicle, role, or class should be effective in all situations, because if it is then everyone will spec into that all the time and it kills the diversity of the game. Unfortunatly with this build, because AV got hit so hard, it made HAVs pretty damn effective in almost any situation (Trust me, when I drive one its MUCH easier this build because AV weapons are so horrible) and as a result so many people specced into them...that's not good.

You can still pop them off, it just requires more skill because it has to be a direct hit. Even so, no tank should be safe without 2 support gunners WITH active communication. Since the pilot has the widest field of vision, they need to be calling out infantry targets to their support gunners since the support gunners are really the best equipped to deal with nearby infantry threats. The main turret isn't helpless...but it should be difficult to use, especially if you go with a railgun.

For ambush, random spawning is really necessary lest people spend 80% of the match running to the battle...that's not going to fly. As for Skirmish, I just consider objectives as indestructible CRUs, I don't think people spawning at a location they captured is unreasonable.

As for your range concerns, in EVE, missiles and railguns have the longest ranges in the game, and since swarms are missiles and forge guns are basically railguns...this seems reasonable. The fact that railgun range got reduced is kinda stupid in that regard, but it does make the sharpshooter skill actually useful so I don't mind that so much.

The key is that some maps are simply not going to be good for tanks, and that's exactly how it should be. Plateaus for example is a HAV's wet dream, whereas Communications can be a nightmare if a dropship shows up. I mean this goes for any weapon, not just vehicles. I run a shotgun and SMG, and the Spire map is HORRIBLE for me since I need to run towards a firing squad of snipers across an open field...thats just the nature of the game. No weapon, vehicle, role, or class should be effective in all situations, because if it is then everyone will spec into that all the time and it kills the diversity of the game. Unfortunatly with this build, because AV got hit so hard, it made HAVs pretty damn effective in almost any situation (Trust me, when I drive one its MUCH easier this build because AV weapons are so horrible) and as a result so many people specced into them...that's not good.

Well put on this bro. THIS is what I am talking about.

Ultra Heavy Suits needed a nerf and you're exaggerating on the swarm launches and its the turret that got slowed down not the tank body.

Also if you ever played AV you'd understand that 100% of our available tools has bugs that prevent them from fully working. This damage buff is probably temporary until they fix the bugs.

Nope, its maxed out with currently available gear. Ward amps went from 25% to 15%. Effectly removed almost 1/3rd of the tank's EHP.