DUST Search - Quit requesting ship boarding.

Veigar Mordekaiser wrote:

Avenger 245 wrote:

you assume dusties will move an act as a whole? if these dusties wont help you find some other or friends. besides it is a interesting concept for larger ships and well we would still rely on eve for manuacturing logistics and space control boarding could tip the scales in a battle but not destroy it we dusties would still be dependent on eve players for everything

The fact that you think Dust is supposed to rely on EVE for all of its supply, shows that you are unaware of what Dust is meant to be in relation to EVE. CCP have directly stated that if one game were removed from the server, the other would survive just fine.

Dust is going to have manufacturing, resource gathering, somehow even sovereignty. Having a corporation made 100% of Dust players, will be able to provide for all of their own needs, and own their own planets/systems.

That said, giving Dust players the ability to board player owned ships, would sky rocket their value, and suddenly EVE would rely on Dust. It would make having mercenaries aboard your ship for protection, a necessity in hauling, PvP, exploring, mining, etc. If you did not having anyone aboard your ship, a group of total noobs would be able to take you out, so long as they have some Dust players to throw at you.

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Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:10:00 - [1] - Quote Edit: TL:DR? amirite? As much fun as it would be, it will not happen. It will not happen for various reasons, some of which have been voiced, some of which may or may not have been voiced. Not all reasons and ideas listed here are my own, and as such they are not necessarily my concern, however they are still valid reasons against this. #1 Boarding a ship in EVE would require one or both of two different defense mechanisms. A) Contract another set of mercs to defend your ship. Issues: A1) As the universe of New Eden is immense, it could take a very, very long time for anyone to come to your aid, and you have absolutely -no- way of defending yourself against an attack from inside your own ship. B) Set up defense tech (ie. lasors, rockets, auto-turrets) inside your ship. Issues: B1) "Oh look an auto turret! Hey Bob, you're a heavy, go tank it while I hack it so it will shoot that rocket launcher!" B2) Having rockets or lasers being fired inside your own ship, would be... rather detrimental to your ship's structure. B3) AI vs Humans, who do you think wins? Unless you make the AI practically god mode/aim bot (anyone played training in Black Ops on the hardest difficulty? LMAO at the kill cams). #2 Boarding ships in EVE, would require creating a map for the entire interior of each ship. Personally, as amazing as CCP is, I don't think they will ever design a map for each Titan, each Dreadnaught, and so on and so forth. Some of the ships in EVE are MASSIVE, they would be much larger than the current maps that we have on the X/Y axis, and they are also much taller on the Z axis, requiring multiple stories. Such an endeavor would require MASSIVE amounts of data storage. #3 Making Dust mercs able to board ships in EVE, would make them FAR to valuable an asset, it would be simply impossible to do anything without having tons of mercs at your disposal. It would create an imbalance between the games, so that Dust would have a dominating effect on EVE, while EVE would have a much less harmful effect on Dust. The games are meant to have equal influence on each other. What I mean is, I don't think a Titan, or even a small frigate, will be able to board your dropsuit. #4 In order to defend against an attack, you may decide to preemptively hire some mercenaries to defend you. Those mercenaries could easily take your contract and receive your payment, only to board your ship and hold it for ransom. Of course, unlike EVE players, they may not be able to pod you; which of course could be untrue, as the interior of the ship would certainly have access to the pod room, all you would have to do is hack the ship so that the pod cannot eject. Another issue would be if you were boarded, prompting you to create a defense contract so some mercs can come save you, only to find out that either A) the defending mercs are actually working with the attacking mercs, and they hold you for ransom anyway; or B) the defending mercs come, kill the attacking mercs, salvage their remains, and hold you for ransom. #5 Hiring mercenaries to attack a ship, would cost significantly more than simply blowing the ship up in most scenarios. Perhaps it would be effective for small frigates or mining ships, but in PvP situations such as pirating or gate blocking, it wouldn't make sense. #6 This would not be viable in fleet fights, if the goal was to capture something on the ship in question. As soon as you boarded your target, their team would target them and melt them immediately, to prevent you from taking whatever valuables you happen to be after. So the match would really never even happen. If we get to board NPC ships for story line missions, cool, I'll take down Sansha from the inside. Fighting AI in PvE makes sense, but having AI as a defense mechanism for PvP encounters would be simply... stupid. It would be more like PvEVE-ship, as the EVE player would really have no effect on the AI defending him, other than which weapons he chose to give it. Edit: Reason #4 is an addition since the original posting, inspired by my response to a post in this thread. Edit: Reason #5 credit goes to Iron Wolf Saber. Edit: Reason #6 credit goes to Iron Wolf Saber.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:31:00 - [2] - Quote I will never stop requesting it
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:39:00 - [3] - Quote we will never stop pointing out why it is not gonna happen
Antonius Dacinci Bragian Order Amarr Empire 65	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:40:00 - [4] - Quote People want walking in stations what can you do?
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:41:00 - [5] - Quote Why it may not happen but ccp might like the concept
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:41:00 - [6] - Quote Antonius Dacinci wrote: People want walking in stations what can you do? this is not WiS
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:42:00 - [7] - Quote Stations make far more sense than ships do. They are stationary, indestructible, and as far as I am aware, can change hands between corporations.
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:43:00 - [8] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Why it may not happen but ccp might like the concept and like i said before, the players of EVE have their say in this also, and i think, no, i'm positively sure they're not gonna let it happen
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:44:00 - [9] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Stations make far more sense than ships do. They are stationary, indestructible, and as far as I am aware, can change hands between corporations. yes it makes much more sense, Stations (well technically speaking, outposts ) POS and POCOs are a target of choice
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:45:00 - [10] - Quote pew pew youredead wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Why it may not happen but ccp might like the concept and like i said before, the players of EVE have their say in this also, and i think, no, i'm positively sure they're not gonna let it happen It's only even gonna happen if someone gets separated from the group of ships as in to randoms in eve

Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:48:00 - [11] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Why it may not happen but ccp might like the concept I'm sure that they do like the concept; it's such a fun idea, it would be amazing, but it cannot happen without putting EVE players at the mercy of Dust players. It would come down to mercenaries saying "move us here or we wont defend you" or "give us this or we will kill you" perhaps even "ha, you paid us to board and protect your ship.... bad idea. proceed to list ransom demands".
pew pew youredead What The French 98	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:53:00 - [12] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: pew pew youredead wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Why it may not happen but ccp might like the concept and like i said before, the players of EVE have their say in this also, and i think, no, i'm positively sure they're not gonna let it happen It's only even gonna happen if someone gets separated from the group of ships as in to randoms in eve what i'm saying is beyond in-situ..... but you're not listening....
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:55:00 - [13] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Why it may not happen but ccp might like the concept I'm sure that they do like the concept; it's such a fun idea, it would be amazing, but it cannot happen without putting EVE players at the mercy of Dust players. It would come down to mercenaries saying "move us here or we wont defend you" or "give us this or we will kill you" perhaps even "ha, you paid us to board and protect your ship.... bad idea. proceed to list ransom demands". And again mercs would be at the mercy of eve players because they need eve players to move them onto a ship by using a ship that can launch pods, then damaging the ship enough where pods are can be launched safely
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.25 08:57:00 - [14] - Quote pew pew youredead wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: pew pew youredead wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Why it may not happen but ccp might like the concept and like i said before, the players of EVE have their say in this also, and i think, no, i'm positively sure they're not gonna let it happen It's only even gonna happen if someone gets separated from the group of ships as in to randoms in eve what i'm saying is beyond in-situ..... but you're not listening.... But what happened to the cold, unforgiving world of new eden and do you really think i didn't take notes. The only people it'll happen to are nobodies (or somebodies who f up) not nearly enough to cause quitting
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.25 09:01:00 - [15] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Why it may not happen but ccp might like the concept I'm sure that they do like the concept; it's such a fun idea, it would be amazing, but it cannot happen without putting EVE players at the mercy of Dust players. It would come down to mercenaries saying "move us here or we wont defend you" or "give us this or we will kill you" perhaps even "ha, you paid us to board and protect your ship.... bad idea. proceed to list ransom demands". And again mercs would be at the mercy of eve players because they need eve players to move them onto a ship by using a ship that can launch pods, then damaging the ship enough where pods are can be launched safely Then tell me, how are mercs going to move between stantions/planets/systems/regions if we have to be lugged around by EVE players? Dust mercs are capable of independent movement.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.25 09:03:00 - [16] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Why it may not happen but ccp might like the concept I'm sure that they do like the concept; it's such a fun idea, it would be amazing, but it cannot happen without putting EVE players at the mercy of Dust players. It would come down to mercenaries saying "move us here or we wont defend you" or "give us this or we will kill you" perhaps even "ha, you paid us to board and protect your ship.... bad idea. proceed to list ransom demands". And again mercs would be at the mercy of eve players because they need eve players to move them onto a ship by using a ship that can launch pods, then damaging the ship enough where pods are can be launched safely Then tell me, how are mercs going to move between stantions/planets/systems/regions if we have to be lugged around by EVE players? Dust mercs are capable of independent movement. But they won't be very capable of defense in the war barge
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.25 09:11:00 - [17] - Quote I don't know how movement is going to work, but I'm sure it wont rely on EVE. The games are not suppose to rely on each other, they're supposed to add a strengthening element to each other.
Primus Core Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention 22	Posted - 2012.08.25 09:13:00 - [18] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: #3 Making Dust mercs able to board ships in EVE, would make them FAR to valuable an asset, it would be simply impossible to do anything without having tons of mercs at your disposal. It would create an imbalance between the games, so that Dust would have a dominating effect on EVE, while EVE would have a much less harmful effect on Dust. The games are meant to have equal influence on each other. What I mean is, I don't think a Titan, or even a small frigate, will be able to board your dropsuit. Except they'll be able to bomb the living **** out of us.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.25 09:14:00 - [19] - Quote It may not rely on eve but it may play a role as war barges may be defenseless (other than it's precision strike)
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.25 09:28:00 - [20] - Quote Primus Core wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: #3 Making Dust mercs able to board ships in EVE, would make them FAR to valuable an asset, it would be simply impossible to do anything without having tons of mercs at your disposal. It would create an imbalance between the games, so that Dust would have a dominating effect on EVE, while EVE would have a much less harmful effect on Dust. The games are meant to have equal influence on each other. What I mean is, I don't think a Titan, or even a small frigate, will be able to board your dropsuit. Except they'll be able to bomb the living **** out of us. And we can fire the Skyfire Battery right back at them. However, the inherent issues with your argument - #1 someone on the ground has to request that Orbital Strike, #2 that isn't killing us from the inside where we cannot defend, where as boarding them is.

STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.26 03:26:00 - [21] - Quote Bump to continue discussion
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.26 03:37:00 - [22] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Why it may not happen but ccp might like the concept I'm sure that they do like the concept; it's such a fun idea, it would be amazing, but it cannot happen without putting EVE players at the mercy of Dust players. It would come down to mercenaries saying "move us here or we wont defend you" or "give us this or we will kill you" perhaps even "ha, you paid us to board and protect your ship.... bad idea. proceed to list ransom demands". you assume dusties will move an act as a whole? if these dusties wont help you find some other or friends. besides it is a interesting concept for larger ships and well we would still rely on eve for manuacturing logistics and space control boarding could tip the scales in a battle but not destroy it we dusties would still be dependent on eve players for everything
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.26 03:55:00 - [23] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: you assume dusties will move an act as a whole? if these dusties wont help you find some other or friends. besides it is a interesting concept for larger ships and well we would still rely on eve for manuacturing logistics and space control boarding could tip the scales in a battle but not destroy it we dusties would still be dependent on eve players for everything The fact that you think Dust is supposed to rely on EVE for all of its supply, shows that you are unaware of what Dust is meant to be in relation to EVE. CCP have directly stated that if one game were removed from the server, the other would survive just fine. Dust is going to have manufacturing, resource gathering, somehow even sovereignty. Having a corporation made 100% of Dust players, will be able to provide for all of their own needs, and own their own planets/systems. That said, giving Dust players the ability to board player owned ships, would sky rocket their value, and suddenly EVE would rely on Dust. It would make having mercenaries aboard your ship for protection, a necessity in hauling, PvP, exploring, mining, etc. If you did not having anyone aboard your ship, a group of total noobs would be able to take you out, so long as they have some Dust players to throw at you.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.08.26 04:01:00 - [24] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Avenger 245 wrote: you assume dusties will move an act as a whole? if these dusties wont help you find some other or friends. besides it is a interesting concept for larger ships and well we would still rely on eve for manuacturing logistics and space control boarding could tip the scales in a battle but not destroy it we dusties would still be dependent on eve players for everything The fact that you think Dust is supposed to rely on EVE for all of its supply, shows that you are unaware of what Dust is meant to be in relation to EVE. CCP have directly stated that if one game were removed from the server, the other would survive just fine. Dust is going to have manufacturing, resource gathering, somehow even sovereignty. Having a corporation made 100% of Dust players, will be able to provide for all of their own needs, and own their own planets/systems. That said, giving Dust players the ability to board player owned ships, would sky rocket their value, and suddenly EVE would rely on Dust. It would make having mercenaries aboard your ship for protection, a necessity in hauling, PvP, exploring, mining, etc. If you did not having anyone aboard your ship, a group of total noobs would be able to take you out, so long as they have some Dust players to throw at you. Make the mercs have to do certain actions aboard the eve ship that if improperly done could result in a seizure of assets ftom the merc, enough to make it a risk v reward scenario
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.26 04:29:00 - [25] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Make the mercs have to do certain actions aboard the eve ship that if improperly done could result in a seizure of assets ftom the merc, enough to make it a risk v reward scenario The all of the ships main functions are controlled by the capsuleer as far as I know, and mercenaries are created specifically as war machines, they don't have much other value. So what "actions" would they be tasked with?
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.26 04:36:00 - [26] - Quote Final reason. It be cheaper to blow it (the ship) up than to hire mercs. Station and Outpost take overs are however different and can prove cost effective.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.08.26 04:38:00 - [27] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Why it may not happen but ccp might like the concept I'm sure that they do like the concept; it's such a fun idea, it would be amazing, but it cannot happen without putting EVE players at the mercy of Dust players. It would come down to mercenaries saying "move us here or we wont defend you" or "give us this or we will kill you" perhaps even "ha, you paid us to board and protect your ship.... bad idea. proceed to list ransom demands". And again mercs would be at the mercy of eve players because they need eve players to move them onto a ship by using a ship that can launch pods, then damaging the ship enough where pods are can be launched safely Then tell me, how are mercs going to move between stantions/planets/systems/regions if we have to be lugged around by EVE players? Dust mercs are capable of independent movement. Thats been answered already. Tell the computer where you want to upload and revive next point scrambler to head pull As long as there is a clone there (this is where eve player comes in handy) then you can wake up there. Either way the other problem wtih invading capsuleer ships. They're body extensions of the ship, and they do not like intruders and will automatically repell a dust marine in the very same manner it would a disease, like baking you alive by exposing the reactor or space radiation to you or just spacing you air pressure popping or gravity crushing are the start of many possible interneral defenses the ship has. The only time a capsuller ship has ever been boarded in eve history had a nasty conteigent of starving slaver hounds that ate most of the invading crew. The invaders managed to slip in a poision to kill majority of the crew that caused an evacutation of everyone else.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.26 04:39:00 - [28] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Final reason. It be cheaper to blow it (the ship) up than to hire mercs. Station and Outpost take overs are however different and can prove cost effective. Valid point, I'll add it in the OP as #5 and credit you.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.26 04:41:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Thats been answered already. Tell the computer where you want to upload and revive next point scrambler to head pull As long as there is a clone there (this is where eve player comes in handy) then you can wake up there. If an EVE player is required for the clone movement, then everything CCP wants for this game wont work. The game is supposed to work 100% without any reliance what so ever on EVE - and visa versa.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.08.26 04:45:00 - [30] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: The all of the ships main functions are controlled by the capsuleer as far as I know I was under that misapprehension for a while too, but it turns out that's only true for some frigates. The capsuleer merely reduces the crew required. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: mercenaries are created specifically as war machines, they don't have much other value. So what "actions" would they be tasked with? We can hack stuff, obviously we've got some technical skills besides "point and shoot".



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