DUST Search - CANT AFFORD TO BUY ANYTHING

Ender 22 wrote:

theschizogenious wrote:

i dont think a corp will shell out extra isk to replace anything you lost, too many variables you might get a scrub who dies a ton in full proto gear and ends up costing the corp the price of three guys becaus they promised to cover his losses.

and for the above its more of an analyzation by a player who thinks of the substantial price increae as a way for ccp to keep the super vets who have been in for a couple builds from just steamrolling the newer players who are just getting in.

giving everyone a fair shake so to speak.

But every match won't be some elite eve alliance match. Deaths happen and deaths happen much more often in games where you have to run in and disarm a bomb. Oh Sorry guys i can't push forward i can't afford to lose this gear.

It happened tonight, my team pushed forward . We lost the first point and that was it no-one was interested in push forward and losing gear.

Super vet issue is not an issue, you need to know how a game plays with new players vs established players.

As a corp CEO I'm not taking a contract for a fight that will only cover 1 death per player.
I'd only be remotely interested in contracts that provide me with a guaranteed profit, I'm not fighting for space honor, i'm fighting for money.

If there's a win loss difference: like corp A puts up a contract for 12 mill. for a 12 v 12. If they loose they get 6 mill, if they win they get the 12 mil.

Even with the 6 mil over 12 players is 2.5 deaths.

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Steve Renuken BetaMax. 23	Posted - 2012.08.15 21:23:00 - [31] - Quote KeyBoard + Mouse
Zero Harpuia Maverick Conflict Solutions 422	Posted - 2012.08.15 21:28:00 - [32] - Quote We have a saying in New Eden: Don't fly what you can't replace. Now it also covers bodysuits :P To clarify, people can't just lone it and die into the double digits and still make enough to come up even. You have to put more of a focus on survival than just being a fool with a death wish. Working as intended.
Captain-Awesome 38	Posted - 2012.08.15 21:41:00 - [33] - Quote I'm confused - how can players sit there and say "it's a part of eve economy, it's meant to be high".... standard fitting for a heavy machine gun using militia shield extenders (which are free) costs 34,000 isk. 6 deaths and you've just hit over 200k in loss, over most of what the average player gets in isk, considering you are using the shittiest gear in the game, do you think the average player will die less than 6 times? no. It's favouring the elite with the money vs the new players who have just joined. how is a new player with low sp/isk supposed to get off their feet if they are spending their money to die on standard gear I think we need that reset so it becomes more of a balanced game, right now there are lots with millions left to burn I don't think this weekend will be very clean, when the reset comes, people will be more careful about what they field out.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.15 21:43:00 - [34] - Quote Pombe Geek wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: As far as true F2P, they have not delivered. They have given an advantage to AUR users, and they have even given them exclusive content - both things they have blatantly stated they would not do, on multiple occasions. What exclusive content? The colors schemes for dropsuits? lower requirements for proto/advanced gear? voicechat between systems? All above seem like side grades (or useless) to me. They never said they wouldn't give exclusive content to anyone, they said that it wouldn't be pay to win, and so far they've kept their promise. Edit: what about the Dragonfly suit and the other suit from participating in beta - that's exclusive content available only to beta testers - should those be given to everyone? "We are not sharding off parts of the game to paid players". Guess what, chat between systems is going to play a very large part in Dust 514, and making players pay for that, is a direct way of saying "Oh you wanted to run a successful corp with voice chat? Sux2BU! PAY US!" By exclusive content I mean something you can only get by paying, that there isn't a free equivalent of.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.08.15 22:24:00 - [35] - Quote Played eve for few years, never used the between system voice chat when it was free(other then camping both sides of gate or scouting next system. this would be in game squad chat in dust). Easier to type, and I type abut 14 words per minute. Players in other systems won't be able to join battles anyway, they are in wrong system. Send them text chat, email invite/order to battle in your system and then it's free voice. I don't see out of system comms very useful. If they make local chat and/or moving between system cost real money it will be an issue. I was twitching with anger about the pay to talk till I read full explanation. Then I didn't care since I wouldn't use it anyway. They need to fix in game item description to prevent rage when misreading it, it reads like it's needed for all voice chat. The standard gear is the normal stuff used, thus the name. My cheap frigates in eve reached 20 mil each, battleship hulls could hit a billion, then add the module costs. The proto stuff seems equal to eve deadspace/officer, only the very rich use. I would sell a shield extender when one dropped as loot and buy several ships.
JONLUK167 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 18	Posted - 2012.08.16 02:07:00 - [36] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Waruiko DUST wrote: I can see why they have those augs in there, but I don't think having them cost AUR is a good idea here No, it isn't. It's a direct breach of their promise not to provide anything extra to paid players. How do you want ccp to pay all those people to keep dust up and running
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.08.16 03:41:00 - [37] - Quote The solution is to find a logi for your squad. When people work together as a team, the amount of gear you burn through goes down quite a bit. Get repaired or revived instead of burning through all your stuff and respawning. In the last few builds it has been easy and cheap to die and re-spawn and ignore all of the items and skills that can help you survive. Looks like this build they are going to emphasize those parts of the game a lot more.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.16 03:44:00 - [38] - Quote JONLUK167 wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Waruiko DUST wrote: I can see why they have those augs in there, but I don't think having them cost AUR is a good idea here No, it isn't. It's a direct breach of their promise not to provide anything extra to paid players. How do you want ccp to pay all those people to keep dust up and running Ever played League of Legends? They make tons of money and paid players have nothing over free players. Edit: To back up that point, Pulsefire Ezreal costs $30, has no effect on gameplay, and probably 1/3 people I see playing Ezreal have that skin.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2012.08.16 04:12:00 - [39] - Quote Captain-Awesome wrote: I'm confused - how can players sit there and say "it's a part of eve economy, it's meant to be high".... standard fitting for a heavy machine gun using militia shield extenders (which are free) costs 34,000 isk. 6 deaths and you've just hit over 200k in loss, over most of what the average player gets in isk, considering you are using the shittiest gear in the game, do you think the average player will die less than 6 times? no. It's favouring the elite with the money vs the new players who have just joined. how is a new player with low sp/isk supposed to get off their feet if they are spending their money to die on standard gear I think we need that reset so it becomes more of a balanced game, right now there are lots with millions left to burn I don't think this weekend will be very clean, when the reset comes, people will be more careful about what they field out. easily they use their brains. its not that hard to stay under the 6 death mark and i shall now share my pointers on how i did it with level 2 assault dropsuit with militia modules. 1. always have a shield repairer 2. i stack the militia shield extenders and armor plates which raises my stats by about 60-80 shield 150-200 armor 3. i played the hell out of the uncharted series and took away an adeptness and love for playing vertically Dusts canyons give the perfect cover for being able to drop down kill a guy and move on without being noticed. 4. never stay still, many of the guys in the beta can keep moving while shooting even while zoomed in grab a militia loadout and start practicing on doing that. 5. dont be afraid to run away, theres no shame in retreating from an area where youre at a disadvantage to lure the enemy into an area that you know better. 6. know the map, take 30 seconds at the beggining to get a general understanding of the layout of the map its in 3D take advantage of it to learn the high grounds and accessible areas that overlook the main roads. 7. use teamwork, no single player is stronger than a well organized team. 8. never go straight for the objective, take your time and look around it to make sure that there are'nt any enemies waiting for you to start hacking so they can get an easy kill. 9. faster isnt always better, just because a road will get you to an area faster doesnt mean its the smarter way to go. if it seems like the smartest way to go chances are the other team will think so too and last thing you want is to be stuck with no where to go. 10. dont forget to laugh, so what if the guy in the aurum suit has an infintecimal advantage every time he dies he loses real money and that deserves a victory laugh every time you kill him. and remember whatever you do just stick out your thumb and KEEP CALM, DONT PANIC
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion 50	Posted - 2012.08.16 04:31:00 - [40] - Quote To everyone saying that CCP need to pay for this or that in order to keep the game running. They chose to make an allegedly free to play game. They chose to state that it would not be pay to win. Believe it or not, developing a game for this platform is big business. It is the responsibility of the developer to have a plausible financial plan before moving forward. If they now decide not to fulfill their prior claims then one of two things is true. The best case scenario is that they are merely incompetent and now require additional funding that they did not anticipate. The worst case is that they are deliberately and knowingly breaking faith with their fans in a cheap rush for cash. Personally I don't think anyone should be surprised by this. We all already know that skill boosters give an enormous advantage (+50% xp) and can only be bought with AUR. Does anyone honestly think these items will ever be directly available in ISK? Even if you're an EVE player you shouldn't hold your breath for the ability to transfer AUR. All you have to do is ask yourself where in all this is Sony's slice of the pie. They aren't letting us use the PSN out of the goodness of their hearts, they are getting a slice of the micro-transactions at the source, this means AUR which means no transfer of AUR or Sony misses out. I honestly wish this game were pay to play so we could skip all the nonsense. I know I'll be paying for skill boosters anyway, why pretend everything we can get with AUR can be earned some other way.

theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2012.08.16 04:35:00 - [41] - Quote skill boosters dont give an eourmous advantage if your using it one at a time. you get a 25% sp bonus for not using boosters of any type
Ender 22 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2012.08.16 04:41:00 - [42] - Quote They revive/squad argument is great, people should be reviving and running in squads. Here's where it fails to address the issue of actual funding: Imagine 2 squads meeting face to face with the same skill levels. Everyone has proto gear and good logi's. The fight will be great but someone will die which will usually lead to the entire squad dying. Now every player on that squad, regardless of how awesome they play the rest of the match out, will be in the red money wise. They argument for use less effective gear fails to address the primary and fundamental part of the game: Why players come back. The goal, the prize, the payoff: The best gear with the best mods! There's currently no payoff for an average player to invest hours at a time into something that he'll lose it all in one or two matches. No matter how hard he works he will never be wallet-stable. Frankly the game has a MUCH HIGHER focus of kdr before this price increase.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2012.08.16 04:44:00 - [43] - Quote Ender 22 wrote: They revive/squad argument is great, people should be reviving and running in squads. Here's where it fails to address the issue of actual funding: Imagine 2 squads meeting face to face with the same skill levels. Everyone has proto gear and good logi's. The fight will be great but someone will die which will usually lead to the entire squad dying. Now every player on that squad, regardless of how awesome they play the rest of the match out, will be in the red money wise. They argument for use less effective gear fails to address the primary and fundamental part of the game: Why players come back. The goal, the prize, the payoff: The best gear with the best mods! There's currently no payoff for an average player to invest hours at a time into something that he'll lose it all in one or two matches. Frankly the game has a MUCH HIGHER focus of kdr before this price increase. yep proto gear will now only be considered if your borderline in the red and you know that its the only thing that will keep you from losing money. or when really lucrative contracts are at stake. or if you just salvaged a bunch from a battlefield
Ender 22 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2012.08.16 04:50:00 - [44] - Quote theschizogenious wrote: yep proto gear will now only be considered if your borderline in the red and you know that its the only thing that will keep you from losing money. or when really lucrative contracts are at stake. or if you just salvaged a bunch from a battlefield Is this from CCP? or is this general assumptions of the player base? If so dust will not be around for long.
Ender 22 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2012.08.16 04:51:00 - [45] - Quote theschizogenious wrote: or when really lucrative contracts are at stake. If the contract is lucrative then it would cover proto, otherwise it's a waste of time. Why bother showing up with substandard equipment?
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2012.08.16 04:58:00 - [46] - Quote Ender 22 wrote: theschizogenious wrote: or when really lucrative contracts are at stake. If the contract is lucrative then it would cover proto, otherwise it's a waste of time. Why bother showing up with substandard equipment? i dont think a corp will shell out extra isk to replace anything you lost, too many variables you might get a scrub who dies a ton in full proto gear and ends up costing the corp the price of three guys becaus they promised to cover his losses. and for the above its more of an analyzation by a player who thinks of the substantial price increae as a way for ccp to keep the super vets who have been in for a couple builds from just steamrolling the newer players who are just getting in. giving everyone a fair shake so to speak.
Morgan Shaedos 3	Posted - 2012.08.16 05:00:00 - [47] - Quote I have been playing as a dedicated pilot for the majority of my time in this beta. Upon logging in after this latest build I find every single one of my vehicle loadouts has gone up massively in price. As a dedicated pilot I get far less sp than the average ground pounder, because I have far fewer kills. Because I get fewer kills, I also get far less ISK. All of my skill points and money has gone into being able to succesfuly get other players from point a to point b, while providing them with a MWP. I see posts talking about how "if you are in a good corp, if you are a good pilot you can demand 5 million ISK for your services, or "your corp will pay for your vehicle if your good." I don't really see anyone but UberCorps being willing to shell out the money for vehicles with these prices. A perfect example is my LAV. I used to be able to afford to replace them. This was before the price went from roughly 60k to 180k. For a little 3 person jeep with a rocket launcher. I used to pay less than that for some of my ships in eve, and I would get to fly those for hours or days at a time. Having vehicles which get lost FAR more rapidly than the ships in eve, one would expect those vehicles to be priced at something that would make them at least marginally replaceable. As for myself I think I am going to have to step back from testing until the next build. If I had had any inkling that vehicles would become this expensive I would not have wasted my time training my char in them.
Ender 22 Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2012.08.16 05:25:00 - [48] - Quote theschizogenious wrote: i dont think a corp will shell out extra isk to replace anything you lost, too many variables you might get a scrub who dies a ton in full proto gear and ends up costing the corp the price of three guys becaus they promised to cover his losses. and for the above its more of an analyzation by a player who thinks of the substantial price increae as a way for ccp to keep the super vets who have been in for a couple builds from just steamrolling the newer players who are just getting in. giving everyone a fair shake so to speak. But every match won't be some elite eve alliance match. Deaths happen and deaths happen much more often in games where you have to run in and disarm a bomb. Oh Sorry guys i can't push forward i can't afford to lose this gear. It happened tonight, my team pushed forward . We lost the first point and that was it no-one was interested in push forward and losing gear. Super vet issue is not an issue, you need to know how a game plays with new players vs established players. As a corp CEO I'm not taking a contract for a fight that will only cover 1 death per player. I'd only be remotely interested in contracts that provide me with a guaranteed profit, I'm not fighting for space honor, i'm fighting for money. If there's a win loss difference: like corp A puts up a contract for 12 mill. for a 12 v 12. If they loose they get 6 mill, if they win they get the 12 mil. Even with the 6 mil over 12 players is 2.5 deaths.
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 62	Posted - 2012.08.16 05:30:00 - [49] - Quote Learn to weigh the risk/reward benefits. Don't use what you can't afford to lose. Loosing expensive gear is now a little bit more meaningful. Seeing ppl in full proto is the exception and not the norm. Eventually the contract rewards will help determine what gear you use or if you will even bother with the contract. I like the new prices as they help make your actons more meaningful. Some helpful hints... 1. Make a militia fit for your profession 2. Create a Meta level 1-2 fit and get 1k-10k of them 3. Create a Meta level 3-4 fit and get 1k-10k of them 4. Create a Meta level 5+ fit and slowly buy them when you have the extra isk. With this you can follow the rule, don't use what you can't afford to lose.
Seran Jinkar Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 214	Posted - 2012.08.16 07:58:00 - [50] - Quote ermh ... I actually gained 2 Million ISK playing in a fitting that's about 10k each spawn. Playing Logi I noticed the biggest problem for all my frontline comrades is the attitude of "OH look a red triangle. I'll sprint to it right now. DEAD!" Instead of formation and at least random groups playing together, it's just a big long snake of people running to their butchering. I guess it just takes time though till people figure out that their dropsuit should be worth the investment on EVERY spawn not just the game. If I know the area is highly dangerous then I don't bring my advanced droplinks or hives. Where is the point in having 4 hives to plant when I'm killed without even setting one on the ground? So why should one bring his proto gun when the local or even strategic lookout isn't that sunny? Maybe to turn the tides? Well, that may be, but it's a risky game still.

Mitchman 514 36	Posted - 2012.08.16 09:59:00 - [51] - Quote Ender 22 wrote: They argument for use less effective gear fails to address the primary and fundamental part of the game: Why players come back. The goal, the prize, the payoff: The best gear with the best mods! There's currently no payoff for an average player to invest hours at a time into something that he'll lose it all in one or two matches. No matter how hard he works he will never be wallet-stable. This.
The Robot Devil 45	Posted - 2012.08.16 10:08:00 - [52] - Quote Passive SP and active ISK.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 324	Posted - 2012.08.16 12:37:00 - [53] - Quote This isn't all about proto gear either, even the lower tier stuff is too expensive. I don't use anything too crazy when I'm doing the infantry thing. A basic caldari assault suit with armor plates, a basic nanohive and a damage mod. I can't afford to lose that suit more than twice per round because I've gone from making 300k to 500k isk per round to around 100k. If I'm extremely lucky I might get 200k. That doesn't even get in to HAVs. Even bringing a Soma in you might as well just light your isk on fire, because it will die fast and will cost you everything you earn in a match. And despite it being militia, it isn't a BPO anymore so you do have to replace it. Madrugar / Surya? Forget it. With the way things stand I regret training those vehicle skills, because I'll never be in a situation where I can use them. We can talk all we want about how rich alliances will shower us with isk, but the fact is sovereignty warfare will not be part of Dust at release. We're starting out in high-sec / faction war. Their stated goal is to make Dust work as a stand-alone game and then slowly increase the integration with Eve. I can understand marauders being something we expect capsuleers to buy for us (maybe), but the tier 1 gear needs to be balanced so that we can earn and use it without their help.
VigSniper101 204	Posted - 2012.08.16 12:43:00 - [54] - Quote Im pretty sure most people knew that the rewards while Beta testing were upped to around 400%...so now what we are seeing is what everyone will be going thru when its Live. Play smart, spend smart. One of the draws of this game is that tactics will really play a part...team work is now more important then most other games.
Mitchman 514 36	Posted - 2012.08.16 12:45:00 - [55] - Quote It might be get people to buy more AUR items. As long as you have access to proto gear for AUR, sometimes even better than the non-AUR items, people will be tempted to get an advantage over most others that are unable to buy proto gear due to the prices.
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2012.08.16 13:54:00 - [56] - Quote Ender 22 wrote: theschizogenious wrote: i dont think a corp will shell out extra isk to replace anything you lost, too many variables you might get a scrub who dies a ton in full proto gear and ends up costing the corp the price of three guys becaus they promised to cover his losses. and for the above its more of an analyzation by a player who thinks of the substantial price increae as a way for ccp to keep the super vets who have been in for a couple builds from just steamrolling the newer players who are just getting in. giving everyone a fair shake so to speak. But every match won't be some elite eve alliance match. Deaths happen and deaths happen much more often in games where you have to run in and disarm a bomb. Oh Sorry guys i can't push forward i can't afford to lose this gear. It happened tonight, my team pushed forward . We lost the first point and that was it no-one was interested in push forward and losing gear. Super vet issue is not an issue, you need to know how a game plays with new players vs established players. As a corp CEO I'm not taking a contract for a fight that will only cover 1 death per player. I'd only be remotely interested in contracts that provide me with a guaranteed profit, I'm not fighting for space honor, i'm fighting for money. If there's a win loss difference: like corp A puts up a contract for 12 mill. for a 12 v 12. If they loose they get 6 mill, if they win they get the 12 mil. Even with the 6 mil over 12 players is 2.5 deaths. simple evenomics "dont use what you cant afford to lose"
theschizogenious KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 167	Posted - 2012.08.16 13:59:00 - [57] - Quote Kristoff Atruin wrote: This isn't all about proto gear either, even the lower tier stuff is too expensive. I don't use anything too crazy when I'm doing the infantry thing. A basic caldari assault suit with armor plates, a basic nanohive and a damage mod. I can't afford to lose that suit more than twice per round because I've gone from making 300k to 500k isk per round to around 100k. If I'm extremely lucky I might get 200k. That doesn't even get in to HAVs. Even bringing a Soma in you might as well just light your isk on fire, because it will die fast and will cost you everything you earn in a match. And despite it being militia, it isn't a BPO anymore so you do have to replace it. Madrugar / Surya? Forget it. With the way things stand I regret training those vehicle skills, because I'll never be in a situation where I can use them. We can talk all we want about how rich alliances will shower us with isk, but the fact is sovereignty warfare will not be part of Dust at release. We're starting out in high-sec / faction war. Their stated goal is to make Dust work as a stand-alone game and then slowly increase the integration with Eve. I can understand marauders being something we expect capsuleers to buy for us (maybe), but the tier 1 gear needs to be balanced so that we can earn and use it without their help. while i understand your point youve also made mine. IT IS A BETA. while not everything in here is perfect neither will everything in here be permanent. ccp is tweaking with the prices of the suits and vehicles because it is a beta. and once we get full market integration the driving factor behind prices will be supply and demand so dont get cushy wih how the prices of things are its a true beta where everything is subject to change.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 324	Posted - 2012.08.16 13:59:00 - [58] - Quote Of course in eve most players can afford to fly something better than a reaper when they have 10 million skill points.
Kristoff Atruin Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 324	Posted - 2012.08.16 14:05:00 - [59] - Quote "the driving factor behind prices will be supply and demand" You can't balance based on what won't be in the game for a long time to come. CCP has said outright that starting out they will be seeding the markets themselves through npc sell orders. The player involvement in the economy will grow slowly over time, as it did with eve. That's how eve wound up with a stable player driven economy...you start out with a rigid economy, then open a little bit to the players and fiddle with it until it's balanced. Right now either costs need to come down or rewards need to go up. Yes this is beta, and things are subject to change. What we are saying is that something needs to change. Shocking.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.08.16 15:36:00 - [60] - Quote Trevor Gallado wrote: C'mon, everything in this game turned to be so damn expensive, and hard to earn SP... I hope this can be issued very soon... The SP gain is now set to what it will be at launch. No more 400% multiplier. This may make everything seem off now, but it'll you'll see that everything will be far more balanced after the wipe, as even though we can still gain SP actively, with all of us having the same passive SP gain and the bonus to active gain being removed, you won't be getting run over by full-proto users nearly as often. As for the ISK prices of everything, I'm gonna be honest here: Blacklight: Retribution This feels like playing Blacklight: Retribution. Virtually every item in the game is purchasable with the in-game currency, but its all so expensive that if you don't play for a certain number of hours each day, you can't afford to keep any of it.



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