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aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
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Posted - 2012.06.29 13:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
The nova knife in dust 514 seems to be hard to use.
who thinks that this game should have melee/knife finishers like in battlefield 3 or killzone 3?
UPDATE:someone in this thread talked about counter melee. good or bad idea?
here's videos of what i mean. Battlefield 3 melees Killzone 3 brutal melee. Halo reach assassinations |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:54:00 -
[2] - Quote
If they put this in my scout build would be like the right hand of a god. I think nope to finishing moves but yea its abit carp atm |
Datura Sandatsu
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2012.06.29 13:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think what it needs is more feedback.
I never know if ive hit someone with it or not, And the small FOV makes it even harder to do. |
Codename BG 47
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
47
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 13:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Agree but made few times :) Nova knife...it looks so weird under mass driver log :D
But yea..it's hard to use it. |
Rue Hadra
31
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Posted - 2012.06.29 13:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
I've tried using the knife quite a few times, and I think that I've got a kill with it a single time. I really can't tell if I'm hitting the other player or not, and at times it can seem to be a little unresponsive.
This could be because it needs a higher skill level to work more efficiently, but it would be nice to see it refined a little. |
Bravo SnakeBlood
8
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Posted - 2012.06.29 14:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
well thats a hard one to get right it should not be very effective due to the armour people are wearing also the idea of a scout vrs heavy what would be the out come of melee fight between the two? on one hand the scout would be able to be sneaky but the knife would barly penetrate the armour let alone be fatal to the fella inside now on the other hand a heavy has systems in place to lug around some serious fire power so if they were to say bash some scouts head with a forge gun who just tryed to stab him there would simply be a little red puddle on the ground where the scout used to be.
Its not a easything to balence because if the scouts could kill a heavy with a knife why would any one use anything other than a scout + knife but on the other hand if th heavy turns around and crushes the scout who would bother using melee other than heavies. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 14:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
keep the feedback coming and could a Dev post something about this
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Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 14:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dmg Feed backs a dam good idea lets keep this thread up up up and the little swipe you do with the knife is lame lets have at least a little lunge with it because if someone is moving away from you its useless.
Note when running with a knife at someone they do tend to move away from you. |
Barzai Kylesa
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.06.29 15:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yeah I have only tried to use the knife now like 3 times because of how useless it is. The issue (For me at least) Is that the characters move a little too fast if you ask me. Not to mention your character swings the knife like he has T-rex arms or something. This is something that definitely needs work because as it stands now the knife is useless. |
Hawkings Greenback
D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION
25
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Posted - 2012.06.29 15:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
I try & use the knife when i am 'dancing with guns' & try to get in close. For me the problems are, i don't know if ive hit with my knife there just doesnt appear to be any feedback. It may be a delay as character swaps between primary weapon & knife, so perhaps timing is crucial. Of course it may be that I am terribad with the knife as I am with shooting Also I agee with Barzai the reach when using the knife does look strange |
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Yevon Talon
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.06.29 18:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
First time jumping in last night and sneak up on someone and was expecting a one-hit kill animation or something as I was perfectly behind and targeted the head. A few swipes later and I was dead, I don't know if I even hit them or anything. Some kind of feedback needs to be added, while animations like those in Battlefield or even Section 8. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 02:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yevon Talon wrote:while animations like those in Battlefield or even Section 8.
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Kiso Okami
Militaires Sans Jeux
19
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Posted - 2012.06.30 06:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
You know? I'm so used to how Killzone 3 and Battlefield 3 work with tehi melee that I kinda expected my character to go all Rambo on the people I've tried using the knfie on.
When you think about it, Melee skills should work based on context. For example:
When attacking from behind (target is unaware): - (Click R3 while aiming at the head) Grab the enemy from behind and cut their throats open if you have a knife. - (Click R3 while aiming at the back) Hit the vertebrae with the knife to instant kill - If you have no knife (is that even a possibility), you could hit them with a blunt object to cause some form of "stagger" status - (Click and hold R3) Enable some form of hostage mode (the victim could opt for suicide or struggle out of it)
When attacking from the sides (target has partial awareness): - (Click R3) Stagger the enemy. - (Click and hold R3) Disarm the target's current weapon (drop it onto the ground until the owner can pick it back up again) and stagger him/her.
When attacking from the front (enemy's fully aware): - (Click R3) uses the weapon to hit the enemy once - (Click and hold R3) makes the knife your primary weapon (can use R1 to use it)
Yes, that last one implies that the knife should be counted as one of the available weapons in the inventory (Holding R2) and that you should be able to select it manually.
This is but a small idea of how to make melee combat more effective even if you may be bringing a knife to a gun fight. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 06:36:00 -
[14] - Quote
I said this 11 days ago but since so many of you like me think that animation driven melee would be better here's my contribution:
Forums Veteran wrote: I suggest once again animation driven execution with knife: no quick animations, not instant kill as in Future Solider but animation in which we stab the enemy many times...more times in case of heavies. Also in Killzone 3, which has animation driven melee, you can be killed while performing melee since you can't move: a very good trade off IMO.
Also this:
Forums Veteran wrote:"Knife dueling", for me at least, is frustrating, is awkward, is silly and it belongs to the past of FPS. Now, melee in Dust 514 should be one hit kill, regardless of the armor, and that's because knife/melee is the ultimate resource for a FPS player: if you arrive at the point of using it then must be really worth it. Starting a ballet with you enemy to get a 50cm kill (which is already the MAX EFFECTIVE RANGE established by CCP) it's ridiculously frustrating. Anyone that has played FPS can also tell that you really can't knife around in Battlefield or Killzone so we won't see people running around knifing easy, especially with 5km maps Also, fiction-wise, the Nova Knife, which will be standard donation for everyone, and has plasma on its edge so probably with that much heat around the blade it won't have problems to pierce through any Dropsuits, even the thickest. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.06.30 15:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kiso Okami wrote:You know? I'm so used to how Killzone 3 and Battlefield 3 work with tehi melee that I kinda expected my character to go all Rambo on the people I've tried using the knfie on.
When you think about it, Melee skills should work based on context. For example:
When attacking from behind (target is unaware): - (Click R3 while aiming at the head) Grab the enemy from behind and cut their throats open if you have a knife. - (Click R3 while aiming at the back) Hit the vertebrae with the knife to instant kill - If you have no knife (is that even a possibility), you could hit them with a blunt object to cause some form of "stagger" status - (Click and hold R3) Enable some form of hostage mode (the victim could opt for suicide or struggle out of it)
When attacking from the sides (target has partial awareness): - (Click R3) Stagger the enemy. - (Click and hold R3) Disarm the target's current weapon (drop it onto the ground until the owner can pick it back up again) and stagger him/her.
When attacking from the front (enemy's fully aware): - (Click R3) uses the weapon to hit the enemy once - (Click and hold R3) makes the knife your primary weapon (can use R1 to use it)
Yes, that last one implies that the knife should be counted as one of the available weapons in the inventory (Holding R2) and that you should be able to select it manually.
This is but a small idea of how to make melee combat more effective even if you may be bringing a knife to a gun fight.
good idea. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 09:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
no new comments? |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 10:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well, I have seen a radical increase of players that aren't happy with the knife and at this point finishers are becoming the most reasonable solution. Having a very powerful slash knife (COD, Future Soldier) is too cheap to work in a game with armored players, not to mention that keeping the slash mechanics will only lead to heavy knife ballets which aren't appealing either. Still CCP can't use a melee system too similar to Killzone 3 or The Darkness, that would bee dangerously close to plagiarism, so they must come out with something in EVE style. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 10:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
I fully support cool knife killing animations, but ONLY if its with the finishing blow. Knives should not be 1 hit kills; this would make them very overpowered in comparison to guns. I want very brutal animations similar to Killzone 3. I want to stab someone under their chin, and pierce up into their brain. I want to stab their throats. I want to grab their heads from behind them, and slash their necks. |
Deskalkulos Ildigan
CrimeWave Syndicate
115
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Posted - 2012.07.01 11:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Actually i find knives not being a one hit Kill weapon quite a nice change. I was very VERY surprised when i got once killed by a knife ( i myself haven't pulled of a knife kill yet), and looking how there are even skills to increase damage etc. i find that this is a good way to further increase the possibilities. (You have to actively choose to learn skills to get a close to ohk weapon instead of getting one right out of the box. I like it) |
Garis Turaun
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2012.07.01 12:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
I don't want knives to have finisher animations like other shooters. I don't want Dust to be like other shooters.
But
I do want feedback when my knife has made contact with my opponent. Also i'm a little annoyed that i can interrupt reloading to swap guns but not to use my knife. |
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Fadle MerDain
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
76
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Posted - 2012.07.01 12:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
I would rather not have the ability to run up to some guy in my super-speedy scout suit, then one hit kill him with a click of a button. So no, dear god please do not add "finishers" into this game, it will be absolutly horrible. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 13:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fadle MerDain wrote:I would rather not have the ability to run up to some guy in my super-speedy scout suit, then one hit kill him with a click of a button. So no, dear god please do not add "finishers" into this game, it will be absolutly horrible.
The whole point of finishers is to make the game more fun,Challenging and satisfying.
it is happening in most games now why shouldn't it happen Dust 514?
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aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 13:36:00 -
[23] - Quote
Garis Turaun wrote:I don't want knives to have finisher animations like other shooters. I don't want Dust to be like other shooters.
Dust 514 is not like any other shooters.
knife finishers are fun and satisfying. Just because other shooters have them doesn't mean Dust 514 can't. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 14:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:I said this 11 days ago but since so many of you like me think that animation driven melee would be better here's my contribution: Forums Veteran wrote: I suggest once again animation driven execution with knife: no quick animations, not instant kill as in Future Solider but animation in which we stab the enemy many times...more times in case of heavies. Also in Killzone 3, which has animation driven melee, you can be killed while performing melee since you can't move: a very good trade off IMO.
Also this: Forums Veteran wrote:"Knife dueling", for me at least, is frustrating, is awkward, is silly and it belongs to the past of FPS. Now, melee in Dust 514 should be one hit kill, regardless of the armor, and that's because knife/melee is the ultimate resource for a FPS player: if you arrive at the point of using it then must be really worth it. Starting a ballet with you enemy to get a 50cm kill (which is already the MAX EFFECTIVE RANGE established by CCP) it's ridiculously frustrating. Anyone that has played FPS can also tell that you really can't knife around in Battlefield or Killzone so we won't see people running around knifing easy, especially with 5km maps Also, fiction-wise, the Nova Knife, which will be standard donation for everyone, and has plasma on its edge so probably with that much heat around the blade it won't have problems to pierce through any Dropsuits, even the thickest.
sorry for stealing your idea |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 15:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
If we keep the current melee system then inevitably melee will always mean "knife dueling/dancing" and frankly this in FPS is one of the most frustrating things ever.
OHK melee in FPS is a must have for his reason: Forums Veteran wrote: If you could kill a person faster by shooting him than by knifing him, your knifing system needs some fixing. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 16:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:If we keep the current melee system then inevitably melee will always mean "knife dueling/dancing" and frankly this in FPS is one of the most frustrating things ever. OHK melee in FPS is a must have for his reason: Forums Veteran wrote: If you could kill a person faster by shooting him than by knifing him, your knifing system needs some fixing.
It seens guns are more important than knifes...... |
Madeleine Kriziah
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 21:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Idk if I like the idea of finishers. But for sure the knife needs fixing. Most of the time it doesn't even work, and when it does it either delayed or does not hit the person any ways. At least this is from what I can tell. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 22:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
I think the reason you cant kill somebody with a knife with one hit is because you have to pay for classes and it would be a nuisance to keep dying in an expensive class because of that, but having said that, it is annoying that when you steathily find your way directly behind an enemy, I end up shooting him as thats the most effective way to kill him |
Ray seveN
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.01 23:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
aden slayer wrote:Fadle MerDain wrote:I would rather not have the ability to run up to some guy in my super-speedy scout suit, then one hit kill him with a click of a button. So no, dear god please do not add "finishers" into this game, it will be absolutly horrible. The whole point of finishers is to make the game more fun,Challenging and satisfying. it is happening in most games now why shouldn't it happen Dust 514? I dont really see a point to it either. You cant really sneak up on someone unless they're complety oblivious to the mini map and once someone sees you I'm pretty sure you'll be dead before you get to knife them. It would also suck when you trigger the animation while still in a fire fight, You'll pretty much be completly open afterwards. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
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Posted - 2012.07.02 04:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zach Shanna wrote:I think the reason you cant kill somebody with a knife with one hit is because you have to pay for classes and it would be a nuisance to keep dying in an expensive class because of that, but having said that, it is annoying that when you steathily find your way directly behind an enemy, I end up shooting him as thats the most effective way to kill him
This is the way of Dust 514. victory is sweet but losing is bitter. you wouldn't die so much if you pay more attention to the mini-map.
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