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Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2012.07.02 04:21:00 -
[31] - Quote
aden slayer wrote:Zach Shanna wrote:I think the reason you cant kill somebody with a knife with one hit is because you have to pay for classes and it would be a nuisance to keep dying in an expensive class because of that, but having said that, it is annoying that when you steathily find your way directly behind an enemy, I end up shooting him as thats the most effective way to kill him This is the way of Dust 514. victory is sweet but losing is bitter. you wouldn't die so much if you pay more attention to the mini-map. and drawing is bitter-sweet
Stealth modules will come in and the dawn of the assasins will come...... |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 04:21:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ray seveN wrote:aden slayer wrote:Fadle MerDain wrote:I would rather not have the ability to run up to some guy in my super-speedy scout suit, then one hit kill him with a click of a button. So no, dear god please do not add "finishers" into this game, it will be absolutly horrible. The whole point of finishers is to make the game more fun,Challenging and satisfying. it is happening in most games now why shouldn't it happen Dust 514? I dont really see a point to it either. You cant really sneak up on someone unless they're complety oblivious to the mini map and once someone sees you I'm pretty sure you'll be dead before you get to knife them. It would also suck when you trigger the animation while still in a fire fight, You'll pretty much be completly open afterwards.
From playing the game i can tell that most people don't care about their mini-map that is why i am able to get so many RE kills. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
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Posted - 2012.07.02 04:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
Zach Shanna wrote:aden slayer wrote:Zach Shanna wrote:I think the reason you cant kill somebody with a knife with one hit is because you have to pay for classes and it would be a nuisance to keep dying in an expensive class because of that, but having said that, it is annoying that when you steathily find your way directly behind an enemy, I end up shooting him as thats the most effective way to kill him This is the way of Dust 514. victory is sweet but losing is bitter. you wouldn't die so much if you pay more attention to the mini-map. and drawing is bitter-sweet Stealth modules will come in and the dawn of the assasins will come......
That's right. one day the DEVs will introduce cloaking modules to the Recon dropsuits. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
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Posted - 2012.07.02 05:16:00 -
[34] - Quote
aden slayer wrote:Zach Shanna wrote:aden slayer wrote:Zach Shanna wrote:I think the reason you cant kill somebody with a knife with one hit is because you have to pay for classes and it would be a nuisance to keep dying in an expensive class because of that, but having said that, it is annoying that when you steathily find your way directly behind an enemy, I end up shooting him as thats the most effective way to kill him This is the way of Dust 514. victory is sweet but losing is bitter. you wouldn't die so much if you pay more attention to the mini-map. and drawing is bitter-sweet Stealth modules will come in and the dawn of the assasins will come...... That's right. one day the DEVs will introduce cloaking modules to the Recon dropsuits. That'll be annoying with one knife kills
Just strolling about then BAM! 10,000 Isk gone because of a fast recon.
It'll be fun to annoy people with that though..... |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.02 05:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
^^^ If you let a enemy get close enough to melee you then HE deserves the OHK. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 05:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:^^^ If you let a enemy get close enough to melee you then HE deserves the OHK. But you wouldnt stand a chance if he was cloaked and not on your mini map and very fast as recons are |
Sato Evern
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.07.02 05:32:00 -
[37] - Quote
so far in the beta i see the melee attacks being unresponsive, at some point it feels like you are hitting the enemy after 1.5-2.0 sec after you pressed R3 button and you still have no clue rather you hit or miss. also by that time your enemy can already slip from your aim. so i think it should be better if it was like BF3/killzone 3 or being more responsive and hit retical would show if you managed to hit the enemy. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 05:54:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zach Shanna wrote: Just strolling about then BAM! 10,000 Isk gone because of a fast recon.
BOY! Y U NO RUN FASTER?! |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 05:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:^^^ If you let a enemy get close enough to melee you then HE deserves the OHK.
Yes he does deserve it. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.02 06:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Zach Shanna wrote: But you wouldnt stand a chance if he was cloaked and not on your mini map and very fast as recons are
I am a Killzone 3 player and I constantly have to deal with OHK melee, especially from Infiltrators that runs faster than any class, and I assure you isn't frustrating at all. Also if a scout runs at me he can't shoot back so eventually I will take him down before he gets to me. In Killzone 3 I melee kill 1-3 times per match max (if I go for it) and I play on TDM maps which are small and so encounters are more frequent: rely on guns in Killzone 3 and you will have far more kills believe me. Also Dust 515 maps are really enormous + we have vehicles + we have armored players, so melee kills are even rarer here: I melee killed trice in over 30 matches.
Melee is a very occasional thing in FPS and as such it must not frustrate you, it must be satifying and OHK are the most satisfying. |
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aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 06:23:00 -
[41] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:Zach Shanna wrote: But you wouldnt stand a chance if he was cloaked and not on your mini map and very fast as recons are
I am a Killzone 3 player and I constantly have to deal with OHK melee, especially from Infiltrators that runs faster than any class, and I assure you isn't frustrating at all. Also if a scout runs at me he can't shoot back so eventually I will take him down before he gets to me. In Killzone 3 I melee kill 1-3 times per match max (if I go for it) and I play on TDM maps which are small and so encounters are more frequent: rely on guns in Killzone 3 and you will have far more kills believe me. Also Dust 515 maps are really enormous + we have vehicles + we have armored players, so melee kills are even rarer here: I melee killed trice in 30 matches. Melee is a very occasional thing in FPS and as such it must not frustrate you, ti must be satifying and OHK are the most satisfying.
I am a killzone player too. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.02 06:43:00 -
[42] - Quote
^^^ I forgot to tell you earlier but you din't steal my idea...we both where inspired by Killzone 3 which IMO has the best melee system in any FPS multiplayer.
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Enzo Entech
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2012.07.02 06:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
I like the idea, but it should be a skill you eventually unlock, like when you train your hand to hand mastery to max. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.02 08:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
^^^ It can't be a skill because we can't afford to have players that can OHK melee you simply because they have invested more time in the game. Veterans already get 25% more damage thanks to skill simply because they played more, which in a FPS is frankly insulting. |
Primus Core
Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention
22
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Posted - 2012.07.02 08:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
I think if anything, we should have knives simply do additional damage if you hit the enemy from behind. Maybe have a system similar to Shadowrun and the katana:
A player with the katana has the ability to deal serious damage to enemies, but only at point blank range, of course. However, if the katana-toting player is able to get up close to the enemy without getting seen and slices that player, that player will gain bleeding status and bleed out until they die or are resurrected.
Now I'm not saying add an in-game bleed out mechanic, but I do think that if players should get some kind of credit for being able to sneak up behind someone and knife 'em. |
Zach Shanna
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 08:49:00 -
[46] - Quote
aden slayer wrote:Zach Shanna wrote: Just strolling about then BAM! 10,000 Isk gone because of a fast recon.
BOY! Y U NO RUN FASTER?! I was strolling! I should be able to stroll in a battlefield without being in danger! |
Timothy Reaper
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
321
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 08:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
Enzo Entech wrote:I like the idea, but it should be a skill you eventually unlock, like when you train your hand to hand mastery to max.
Sounds good to me. But I don't think it should be just a OHK. Someone mentioned a 'hostage' situation where the hostage could struggle or suicide. I was thinking maybe the struggle could take into account both players' stamina (how long can they keep this up?), the hostage's armor and how well he/she struggles (wiggle the joystick, tap X, etc.). And maybe the option of a 'grenade suicide'. And none of this takes you out of the firefight. That way you can get a OHK, but is it worth the risk?
I do know for sure that the current melee sucks. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 11:12:00 -
[48] - Quote
If you guys want an example of a good current-gen shooter with non-OHK melee combat, look at Transformers: War for Cybertron.
Melee weapons had longer reach than here, but not by too much (unless you count scale, in which case DUST shotguns have shorter range than giant robot swords.
But melee attacks were fairly fast, near-instant swap from gun to melee and back as soon as the swing was completed, and most importantly, you could SEE, HEAR AND FEEL the impact when you hit a target. Spray of energon (Transformer blood), different sounds for impact and misses, and dualshock vibration on a hit. Also, while Scientists and Scouts died instantly to melee attacks (Scouts could survive with armour buffs), the other two classes would take a couple of hits. A heavily buffed Soldier could survive 2 melee attacks if they weren't being shot as well.
The main problem is the lack of feedback. If you can't tell when you're hitting a target, melee will never be viable. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 11:32:00 -
[49] - Quote
^^^ WFC has great melee but there maces/swards had a far higher reach then the knives we have here here. Also whne it took 2 hits to kill a giant robot ti was believable...here the knife is so weak that heavies goes down in 4-5 hits :(
In FPS with humans is preferable to have OHK melee because if you don't it's inevitable to end up having "dancing melee" scenario. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 14:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Zach Shanna wrote:aden slayer wrote:Zach Shanna wrote: Just strolling about then BAM! 10,000 Isk gone because of a fast recon.
BOY! Y U NO RUN FASTER?! I was strolling! I should be able to stroll in a battlefield without being in danger!
BOY! Y U NO STROLL SAFER?! |
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aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 14:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
Enzo Entech wrote:I like the idea, but it should be a skill you eventually unlock, like when you train your hand to hand mastery to max.
yes it would make people happy and sad. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 15:12:00 -
[52] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:^^^ I forgot to tell you earlier but you din't steal my idea...we both where inspired by Killzone 3 which IMO has the best melee system in any FPS multiplayer.
are u sure? |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.02 15:33:00 -
[53] - Quote
^^^ Make me the co-author of the suggestion and we are even...but honestly I am just happy I can help to eventually make finishers come true. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 15:43:00 -
[54] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:^^^ Make me the co-author of the suggestion and we are even...but honestly I am just happy I can help to eventually make finishers come true.
Yes and thank you |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 17:04:00 -
[55] - Quote
Templar Two wrote:^^^ WFC has great melee but there maces/swards had a far higher reach then the knives we have here here. Also whne it took 2 hits to kill a giant robot ti was believable...here the knife is so weak that heavies goes down in 4-5 hits :(
In FPS with humans is preferable to have OHK melee because if you don't it's inevitable to end up having "dancing melee" scenario.
I want high-damage, but I don't think guaranteed OHK is a good idea. Having the longer range worked for WfC partly because it was very speed-based and had mostly close-range combat. In a game with larger battlefields, making melee too much of a focus would be problematic.
I agree with keeping melee range short, and with buffing the damage significantly from DUST's current state, but it SHOULDN'T be 1-shotting everything. Heavies definitely need to be able to take at least one hit.
The biggest problem is the lack of feedback though. We NEED to be able to tell when our swings connect. Make sure there are visual AND audio cues, as well as a vibration effect when you land the hit (but not when you miss). Make it as hard as possible to NOT realise when you've hit the target and when you missed. With that improvement and a damage buff, I'll be perfectly happy with melee. With JUST the improved feedback, I won't be totally happy, but I won't be complaining much either. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 17:18:00 -
[56] - Quote
^^^ Well since maps are really enormous OHK is better because after running for 200m you really can't end up in a melee ballet to kill someone decently.
Anyway I agree on the fact that heavies should take more hits to go down, that's why I proposed this:
Quote:....no quick animations, not instant kill as in Future Solider, but animation in which we stab the enemy many times...more times in case of heavies.
Since we would be defenseless while performing the melee, we can't move, it would be far more dangerous to melee an heavy than any other dropsuit. |
Antilles Maximus
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
80
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 19:29:00 -
[57] - Quote
There should be some type of assurance that you made contact with a knife attack. Something like a new sound effect of a knife cutting into flash or a metal to metal type sound. Considering the game is still in development, they can even add a new graphic (i.e., a linenew of blood coming of the enemy, etc), however, I feel sound effects of would be sufficient.
Additionally, what about the idea of having a 2 or 3 slash combo with the knife by pressing the button multiple times, thus reducing the time between attacks when up close and personal... thoughts? |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 07:29:00 -
[58] - Quote
Antilles Maximus wrote:There should be some type of assurance that you made contact with a knife attack. Something like a new sound effect of a knife cutting into flash or a metal to metal type sound. Considering the game is still in development, they can even add a new graphic (i.e., a linenew of blood coming of the enemy, etc), however, I feel sound effects of would be sufficient.
Additionally, what about the idea of having a 2 or 3 slash combo with the knife by pressing the button multiple times, thus reducing the time between attacks when up close and personal... thoughts?
yes the game is still developing so if there were knife finishers it wouldn't happen so soon. |
aden slayer
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
407
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Posted - 2012.07.03 07:30:00 -
[59] - Quote
Could a DEV or GM reply about this topic? it would stop some tension. |
Templar Two
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
459
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Posted - 2012.07.03 08:17:00 -
[60] - Quote
Antilles Maximus wrote: Additionally, what about the idea of having a 2 or 3 slash combo with the knife by pressing the button multiple times, thus reducing the time between attacks when up close and personal... thoughts?
Do you mean in the animations? Surely if we could slash the knife multiple times as in Killzone 2 it would be easier/faster to kill someone than now.
I liked that in Killzone 2...then they introduced the Brutal Melee and achived perfection |
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