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Will Nova Succeed in Competitive Matchmaking?

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
DeadlyAztec11 10164	Posted - 2017.05.23 09:07:00 - [1] - Quote Will it even try? Or is that not necessarily a priority? I would like to see a ranked mode. It seems like the more we learn about Nova the more of a departure it appears to be taking from Dust. Ranked gameplay would be nice. Especially for solo players. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 4503	Posted - 2017.05.23 10:49:00 - [2] - Quote I fully support this. #NekosForLife GÄ¥GùÑGû¦GÇ+GÇ+GùÇGùñGÄá When you think about it, nekos are like upgraded humans Alma is a psycho I swear, send help
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1899	Posted - 2017.05.23 13:11:00 - [3] - Quote I'd say keep rankings for corp battles/PC/Whatever the end game is. As it's a team game, individual rankings would likely lead to one class being more used than the others, simply because some roles will be easier to gain rankings with. Not to mention additional queue times for effectively the same game mode... Pretty much leading to less balance between teams in both ranked and unranked. Better off just going with corp rankings, give corps a reason not to just hire anyone and everyone... When you go pubs you represent your corp... Don't show them up, or they'll biomass you.
richiesutie 2 The Rainbow Effect 1064	Posted - 2017.05.23 13:40:00 - [4] - Quote Depends is they realise its all to do with winning and not k/d or score per min
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2768	Posted - 2017.05.23 13:42:00 - [5] - Quote PC could represent a ranking. Or any other form of battle in end game. I believe that they will maintain the team based gameplay in Nova and if so then there's no need/point in ranking queues for single units/single squads. Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
DUST Fiend 19219	Posted - 2017.05.23 14:38:00 - [6] - Quote I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ Rage flavored bitter berry #BUS514
byte modal 1322	Posted - 2017.05.23 14:55:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ wait. what? was that in pokey's list?? I missed that. but then again, i did skip around. kitten bacon taco (nom)
LOL KILLZ LulKlz 1459	Posted - 2017.05.23 14:59:00 - [8] - Quote I'd rather PC be the end game mode. Ranked modes will favor unbalanced play, if KDR assaults will rule, if you use WP, logis will stomp. Your friendly Pub match logi
DeadlyAztec11 10165	Posted - 2017.05.23 15:36:00 - [9] - Quote LOL KILLZ wrote: I'd rather PC be the end game mode. Ranked modes will favor unbalanced play, if KDR assaults will rule, if you use WP, logis will stomp. How about neither? Whether you gain or lose points towards your rank should be determined by whether you win or lose, respectively. The magnitude of the win or lose would also be factored in when you your teams total rank is compared to the enemy team's. There would be many variables that would determine the magnitude of rank won or lost however. Total points achieved by the player by the end of the match would be factored in as the second greatest variable to decide the magnitude of points gained or lost. In reality this would be two variables: one would be how your points compare against players of your rank and other would be how you did compared to the people in your match. The system is pretty fair and allows you to in general get into even matches. This is more or less how Overwatch does it, and games in that tend to be fair in most cases. This is because on the off chance that your team is stomped it won't affect your rank much if the disparity between each team's total rank was high to begin with. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DUST Fiend 19219	Posted - 2017.05.23 16:05:00 - [10] - Quote byte modal wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ wait. what? was that in pokey's list?? I missed that. but then again, i did skip around. I actually may have misread it Quote: junotristan Would you be able to have to suit set up as Kaalakiota and Lai Dai in your fitting options (and if youGÇÖre willing to pay the per battle fee) use both in the same match? CCP Rattati No, you save it and bring it to battle. No in battle modifications. Just a mess and takes people out of the battle. You pick you suits and commit, thatGÇÖs strategy. How you use them is tactics. I don't mind not being able to fiddle with fits so much mid battle (though honestly this was awesome and allowed for skilled players to quickly adapt to multiple scenarios) but you better be able to swap suits at a supply depot at least. Rage flavored bitter berry #BUS514

richiesutie 2 The Rainbow Effect 1064	Posted - 2017.05.23 16:14:00 - [11] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: byte modal wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ wait. what? was that in pokey's list?? I missed that. but then again, i did skip around. I actually may have misread it Quote: junotristan Would you be able to have to suit set up as Kaalakiota and Lai Dai in your fitting options (and if youGÇÖre willing to pay the per battle fee) use both in the same match? CCP Rattati No, you save it and bring it to battle. No in battle modifications. Just a mess and takes people out of the battle. You pick you suits and commit, thatGÇÖs strategy. How you use them is tactics. I don't mind not being able to fiddle with fits so much mid battle (though honestly this was awesome and allowed for skilled players to quickly adapt to multiple scenarios) but you better be able to swap suits at a supply depot at least. I agree for public matches, but for corp battles it could add a new meta to the game where prior knowledge of your enemies would be incredibly useful perhaps limiting the number of fits to 2/3 whilst in a match
byte modal 1322	Posted - 2017.05.23 16:36:00 - [12] - Quote Ok. I read that line the same as you then. I vaguely remember a topic a while back when we were all fantasizing about planet-side NPE, drone swarms, and mining/looting. An idea popped up describing carrying a limited supply of fits and types within your vehicle when you traveled. Like cargo space limited your suit count to 5x, or three types, or whatever. I honestly cannot remember the details, but I wonder where the starting point of that conversation was? I'm not sure if a Dev was involved or if posters were just speculating what-if scenarios for a new NOVA. I bring that up because I think it was related to another topic of carrying a limited supply of fits into battle. Like you have a small closet (for lack of a better description!) and in it you can only fit 3 fits. Or whatever. I think the overall argument was to predict the battle and prep before launch for what you think you might run into. This reminds me of old Sega Genesis Battlefield Earth game play where you pick your 2 weapons before each mission. In that case, you never knew what to expect until you enter the mission but then it's too late. Die, change weapons better suited, then start over. Could be fun. Could be annoying. Strategy by design? Or streamlining for simpler development? Half empty, or half full I guess depends on how we want to see it. How we want to spin it. kitten bacon taco (nom)
DUST Fiend 19220	Posted - 2017.05.23 16:37:00 - [13] - Quote I was thinking 3 or 4 suits too, even for pubs. Choose them in the pre game lobby and you can switch between them at the depot. Rage flavored bitter berry #BUS514
DeadlyAztec11 10165	Posted - 2017.05.23 18:01:00 - [14] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I was thinking 3 or 4 suits too, even for pubs. Choose them in the pre game lobby and you can switch between them at the depot. So it would be more or less the class system from Call of Duty. It works there so it can work in NOVA. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 4504	Posted - 2017.05.23 18:29:00 - [15] - Quote richiesutie 2 wrote: Depends is they realise its all to do with winning and not k/d or score per min There's a new patch coming to world of Tanks containing Ranked Battles, and it uses a system Nova could use aswell. Basically, in a 15v15 matchup, the top 12 players on the winning team and the top 3 players on the losing team move up a rank when the battle ends. Also, of course, the bottom 3 players on the winning team and the bottom 12 on the losing team move down a rank, i.e. lose ranking points. You may be thinking - But that would just cause even more K/D padding because you don't have to necessarily win in order to advance! That's where you're wrong, because if multiple people on your team try to pad K/D, it might cause that team to eventually win by drying out the clone count of the enemy... Emphasis on "might", but it's a probability. #NekosForLife GÄ¥GùÑGû¦GÇ+GÇ+GùÇGùñGÄá When you think about it, nekos are like upgraded humans Alma is a psycho I swear, send help
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1900	Posted - 2017.05.23 18:38:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ Yeah, that's pretty bad... Also means that if one team goes in with whatever it is you can buy and the other doesn't, it's likely to be a proto stomp with no choice to switch to proto yourself to counter it... Too much pre-game gamble I think.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2769	Posted - 2017.05.23 19:01:00 - [17] - Quote I'm not up to date with Nova but I guess I will take a look. Is this what they have in plans, limited fits per battle? How many did we have in Dust, was it 20 or 30? I remember that it wasn't enough for me. More choices = more counters = more varied gameplay Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 8142	Posted - 2017.05.23 19:23:00 - [18] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Will it even try? Or is that not necessarily a priority? I would like to see a ranked mode. It seems like the more we learn about Nova the more of a departure it appears to be taking from Dust. Ranked gameplay would be nice. Especially for solo players. Maybe Ranked Teams. Have a 6v6 bracket using smaller maps for competitive squad vs squad play. Be able to register a team, allowing up to 8 or 10 members (to allow for substitutions in case of scheduling conflicts) but 6 per match. Team gets ranking according to how it does against other teams. Or if it needs to be Corp based you could have 6, 12, and 16 man team brackets for each Corp. The Corp is ranked in each bracket it participates in. Only Corp members with an appropriate Corp Role can queue for competition, so you don't have unauthorized Corp members tanking the Corp ratings. Have the payout to the winner proportional to the difference in their team ranking. Large payouts if you beat a higher ranked team, but still profitable if you beat an equally ranked team. Lower payouts for beating a lower ranked team, but you should not be losing as much gear against lower ranked teams, so should still be profitable. This way if a low ranked team gets matched against a high ranked team, do to no appropriate matches in the queue, the lower ranked team at least has a chance at a large payout if they can pull out a win. For RP purposes it is considered a sporting event. The rich and powerful like to gamble on the results. Watching solders blowing each other's brains out is far more exiting than watching some four lagged beasts running around a track after all. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
richiesutie 2 The Rainbow Effect 1064	Posted - 2017.05.23 21:07:00 - [19] - Quote TooMany Names AlreadyTaken wrote: richiesutie 2 wrote: Depends is they realise its all to do with winning and not k/d or score per min There's a new patch coming to world of Tanks containing Ranked Battles, and it uses a system Nova could use aswell. Basically, in a 15v15 matchup, the top 12 players on the winning team and the top 3 players on the losing team move up a rank when the battle ends. Also, of course, the bottom 3 players on the winning team and the bottom 12 on the losing team move down a rank, i.e. lose ranking points. You may be thinking - But that would just cause even more K/D padding because you don't have to necessarily win in order to advance! That's where you're wrong, because if multiple people on your team try to pad K/D, it might cause that team to eventually win by drying out the clone count of the enemy... Emphasis on "might", but it's a probability. the problem with that is firstly those bottom 3 players could well have been extremely valuable to the result of the match and that method doesnt take that into account, for instance, one of my old corp members was taz-666 he would never score extremely highly on the scoreboard but was invaluable to the winning of games and was always wanted in squads as soon as he was online - especially in pcs. as well as this quite often the top players on the losing team in dust were those that chased the kills/wp whores which were useless in terms of winning a game this would likely result in them joining the higher ranked players who do PTFO and cause large amounts of conflict. conversly not allowing these K/d padders to advance through the "ranks" may result in them playing against the Newbros and having a stomp causing playerbase decline. therefore I feel it best to: A not to penalise players for losing only the reward those who win, IE increase the ranks of the whole team. and B to "reward" the K/d padders who if not dealt with would simply stomp the Newbros perhaps increase their rank at 2x the speed just to troll them.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17183	Posted - 2017.05.23 21:59:00 - [20] - Quote byte modal wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ wait. what? was that in pokey's list?? I missed that. but then again, i did skip around. It was in the blog Pokey linked somewhere, but I don't recall seeing it mentioned on the forums. That being said, while I think it will definitely be different, I don't necessarily think it will be a bad difference. Thinking back to Dust, while being able to switch suits regularly did have many uses, it sometimes went too far. Say, switching from a Scout to a Heavy because you are being chased. Towards the end, some people had so much SP, it was insane how many suit choices they had, compared to the first year or so of the game when most people had one real specialty. Being able to switch around often made things too easy. At the start of a match, people would run speed scouts to hack, then switch over to assaults/heavies/logis. It didn't take too much thought, it was just the meta. This way, now you have to think, and in PC play, plan and coordinate, what suit you want to wear. You can't simply choose a speedster just for hacking, because you will be gimped the rest of the game. Nor can a Logi just dump a bunch of hives and uplinks, and switch to a killing fit. Now they have to decide, do they want to focus on EQ and support with minimal killing ability, or do they want to do more damage, but limit the support they can offer? People were complaining about lack of depth and gameplay, but I don't think this constraint makes for a shallower game, but for a deeper one. Particularly if there are multiple objectives in a match, like in Skirmish where you could both take out the MCC, or deplete enemy clones. Rattati also mentioned (or at least hinted) that rewards would be more greatly tied to outcome than personal performance, so that will also have an effect. RE: MM and Ranked matches. I am all for it, but it all depends on player numbers. If we have numbers as low as what we had at the end of Dust, both will be pointless. I think perhaps it should be more of a medium term goal once the game is live and going. I am currently playing a lot of Ranked Rocket League, and am really enjoying it. I think some version of what Fox said would be an excellent idea. Ranked matches should be smaller/squad sized. Something separate from PC. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.

Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2770	Posted - 2017.05.23 22:10:00 - [21] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Being able to switch around often made things too easy. At the start of a match, people would run speed scouts to hack, then switch over to assaults/heavies/logis. It didn't take too much thought, it was just the meta. If we are talking about PC then you can manage. Give strict roles beforehand. But I don't see it in pubs. If you are limited in pubs then things can turn nasty without you being able to counter measure. Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17183	Posted - 2017.05.23 22:54:00 - [22] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Being able to switch around often made things too easy. At the start of a match, people would run speed scouts to hack, then switch over to assaults/heavies/logis. It didn't take too much thought, it was just the meta. If we are talking about PC then you can manage. Give strict roles beforehand. But I don't see it in pubs. If you are limited in pubs then things can turn nasty without you being able to counter measure. That happened in Dust regardless. A team had a few tankers that got out early, and the game was a bust. I am sure there are kinks that may need to be worked out, and perhaps they will have to make amendments, but without seeing how the game plays, there is no way to be certain about anything. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
DeadlyAztec11 10169	Posted - 2017.05.24 04:17:00 - [23] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Mejt0 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Being able to switch around often made things too easy. At the start of a match, people would run speed scouts to hack, then switch over to assaults/heavies/logis. It didn't take too much thought, it was just the meta. If we are talking about PC then you can manage. Give strict roles beforehand. But I don't see it in pubs. If you are limited in pubs then things can turn nasty without you being able to counter measure. That happened in Dust regardless. A team had a few tankers that got out early, and the game was a bust. I am sure there are kinks that may need to be worked out, and perhaps they will have to make amendments, but without seeing how the game plays, there is no way to be certain about anything. In Dust 514 the biggest issue was that certain people could afford to run proto in all public matches, but most people couldn't afford to run more than advanced, so you had squads of proto players killing other players with little resistance. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2772	Posted - 2017.05.24 07:34:00 - [24] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Mejt0 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Being able to switch around often made things too easy. At the start of a match, people would run speed scouts to hack, then switch over to assaults/heavies/logis. It didn't take too much thought, it was just the meta. If we are talking about PC then you can manage. Give strict roles beforehand. But I don't see it in pubs. If you are limited in pubs then things can turn nasty without you being able to counter measure. That happened in Dust regardless. A team had a few tankers that got out early, and the game was a bust. I am sure there are kinks that may need to be worked out, and perhaps they will have to make amendments, but without seeing how the game plays, there is no way to be certain about anything. In Dust 514 the biggest issue was that certain people could afford to run proto in all public matches, but most people couldn't afford to run more than advanced, so you had squads of proto players killing other players with little resistance. I can assure you that a BPO with cheap proto mods could compeat with full proto suits. It was due to people not having maxed core skills and using bad and cheap mods that got stomped. The only real difference was the eq. As proto eq >>> other tiers. People were downgrading too fast to save some ISK. I was tanking major time in pubs. People wouldn't do anything about AV. Points wrere red because people were going to homepoint or redline after just few deaths. Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
Rei Shepard Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1854	Posted - 2017.05.24 09:27:00 - [25] - Quote richiesutie 2 wrote: Depends is they realise its all to do with winning and not k/d or score per min Hey hey, long time no see! Hows it going dude :) Winner of the EU Squad Cup, Power Ranger for Life! "My YT Channel"
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken Going for the gold 4527	Posted - 2017.05.24 11:32:00 - [26] - Quote Whenever I get notifications for this thread it says "Will Nova succ" #NekosForLife GÄ¥GùÑGû¦GÇ+GÇ+GùÇGùñGÄá When you think about it, nekos are like upgraded humans Alma is a psycho I swear, send help
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1902	Posted - 2017.05.24 15:27:00 - [27] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Mejt0 wrote: One Eyed King wrote: Being able to switch around often made things too easy. At the start of a match, people would run speed scouts to hack, then switch over to assaults/heavies/logis. It didn't take too much thought, it was just the meta. If we are talking about PC then you can manage. Give strict roles beforehand. But I don't see it in pubs. If you are limited in pubs then things can turn nasty without you being able to counter measure. That happened in Dust regardless. A team had a few tankers that got out early, and the game was a bust. I am sure there are kinks that may need to be worked out, and perhaps they will have to make amendments, but without seeing how the game plays, there is no way to be certain about anything. I remember before the big reworks on av and tanks, people complained about tanks being too good... When actually back then the issue was tanks were too good when the other team had no AV. Once people pulled AV the tankers were just dead weight, couldn't get close enough to the objective without being blapped by 2 or 3 forge gunners, who while the tanks weren't there were one shotting infantry. The problem was teams not balancing themselves, by having someone with necessary skills for all situations... Everyone wanted to be assault/slayers, but didn't seem to realise you need at least some variety in your team to combat the variety in the other team. It's like when a team with no heavies tried to defend the Gal-Lag facility... Obviously you're gonna get shat on by the heavy/logi squad waddling slowly towards you. The biggest problem with Dust, was a lack of strategy on the part of the players... No willingness to adapt... If they can't win as their generic default setup, then the other team must be running OP gear! Of course, since some things were unbalanced, this complaining and lack of strategic awareness just caused confusion for the devs and lead to the cycle of constant buffs/nerfs that we all loved to hate.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3237	Posted - 2017.05.24 15:31:00 - [28] - Quote Re the suits you can take into a match, the way it seems to read is that you'll have 6 slots, each slot giving you a dropsuit + your chosen preconfigured loadout for each suit. Those could mean 6 different assault dropsuits/loadouts, or 6 different heavy dropsuit/loadouts but what we won't be able to do is modify the dropsuits in out list or any loadout after the match starts. e.g.(in my boring solo merc life): 1 Uplink Scout 1 Speedhack Hacking Scout 1 Tacnet Assault 1 DPS Assault 1 RE Logi 1 Support Logi and that's it, no changes once match starts. Spending merc fortune like water keeping these clone tumors under control....
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 3237	Posted - 2017.05.24 15:53:00 - [29] - Quote Re matchmaking, Rattati's core logic from both the Dust matchmaker and the Dust teambuilder should still be serviceable. The laws of inference haven't changed, after all. Iirc, his matchmaker already favors the win over individual performance. Details like squad size may change, true, and that will require some empirical mucking about, and everything may have to be rewritten for the new codebase, but intellectually the problem has already been worked, imo. All we really need in pubs for good player experiences re matchmaking is a big enough player population. For ranked corp battles, he should be able to use the outputs from the matchmaker and teambuilder to generate corp rankings, at least as a first approximation. After that match data should allow the matchmaker to iterate towards refined rankings. Spending merc fortune like water keeping these clone tumors under control....
richiesutie 2 The Rainbow Effect 1065	Posted - 2017.05.24 20:26:00 - [30] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: richiesutie 2 wrote: Depends is they realise its all to do with winning and not k/d or score per min Hey hey, long time no see! Hows it going dude :) Going pretty well, havent had much time for games but should over the summer. We could try get a TRE squad in overwatch during july some time I know babar would love junkrat

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1488	Posted - 2017.05.24 21:33:00 - [31] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits. sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit. oh you have a tank? change suit and counter. oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there. I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17185	Posted - 2017.05.24 22:01:00 - [32] - Quote ^ Plus there is a risk/reward aspect too. You can play it safe and play a suit that is average at several things, but if you choose a specialized suit, and are in the right situation, you get the advantage. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
DeadlyAztec11 10171	Posted - 2017.05.25 02:14:00 - [33] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits. sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit. oh you have a tank? change suit and counter. oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there. I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage. That would kill the player base very quickly. No one likes being stuck in a long drawn out game with nothing to do because they are at a disadvantage. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1489	Posted - 2017.05.25 09:11:00 - [34] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits. sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit. oh you have a tank? change suit and counter. oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there. I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage. That would kill the player base very quickly. No one likes being stuck in a long drawn out game with nothing to do because they are at a disadvantage. Call of Duty prevents disadvantages; huge player base Battlefield 1 prevents disadvantages; huge player base Titanfall 2 prevents disadvantages; huge player base Overwatch prevents disadvantages; huge player base I see now, what makes a great game. People shouldn't have to overcome challenges.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1905	Posted - 2017.05.25 14:14:00 - [35] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: I'm not up to date with Nova but I guess I will take a look. Is this what they have in plans, limited fits per battle? How many did we have in Dust, was it 20 or 30? I remember that it wasn't enough for me. More choices = more counters = more varied gameplay A single fit would be awful, but limited fits I would take, just for my own sanity. Trying to decide what role to switch to and then sieving through all those fits and vehicle fits... I recall renaming everything and adding little codes to the start to keep them in some sort of order, took me ******* ages, lol.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17188	Posted - 2017.05.25 14:23:00 - [36] - Quote Except at this point there are no tanks in Nova, and we have no idea what form Nova will be taking if and when it gets to the point of vehicles. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2775	Posted - 2017.05.25 14:44:00 - [37] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits. sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit. oh you have a tank? change suit and counter. oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there. I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage. How do you know what suit to deploy? If you don't know and have no way of knowing then you are just blindly going into the battle hoping for the best, "I'm **** " - you'd say. Where is strategy in this? Do you know why having multiple fits was needed? Because there were strategies that allowed you to completely take over the objective without letting you to even cross the "border". You needed to adapt or surrender. Yes, you change the suit to adapt. Your team needs firepower? You bring firepower. Your team needs support? You bring support. That's how it worked. Enemy team has lots of anti shield guns. You need armour based suit or surrender. Enemy team has lots of anti armour guns. You need shield based suit or surrender. Derpty Derp wrote: A single fit would be awful, but limited fits I would take, just for my own sanity. Trying to decide what role to switch to and then sieving through all those fits and vehicle fits... I recall renaming everything and adding little codes to the start to keep them in some sort of order, took me *** ages, lol. I liked this part , organizing this whole mess paid off in the end. Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting**
byte modal 1325	Posted - 2017.05.25 15:28:00 - [38] - Quote ^agreed. It kept the battle fluid and dynamic. All things being equal, the objectives (not A, B, C objective objects, but objectives as in short term goals) moved constantly. As a result, we were constantly having to adapt to maintain progression or defense. I stress all things being equal because I do not want the point lost on arguments of balance or some hypothetical whatever. I have plenty of issues with other factors such as those. There's no argument here really, that if you thought it was a negative, or think that whatever changes in philosophy exist for NOVA to justify abandoning that is a good idea. It was just what *some* of us loved about DUST---*part* of what we loved at least. Hey. If that's change, cool. Whatever. Enjoy it if you felt the old was bad. I hope I enjoy it too when/if the game launches. Just please, stop arguing as if those characteristics of the game were bad. Perhaps details were not thought through enough. Perhaps implementations were poor. But the general concept was not bad at all. NOVA seems to be falling more in line with some of your views on what's good and less for others. Fair enough. I'm not changing my stance on what made DUST enjoyable for me, so there's no sense to try to beat it in. And I LOVED obsessing over fittings and what suit could do what in niche contexts. It was brilliant! Even screwing around mid-battle praying someone doesn't shotgun me in the back before I can accept the change! That part of the game was a game in and of itself! Like... a shooter fidget spinner for my aging mind. There. I've had my spell again. Nothing to see here. lol ;P I guess that reads more aggressive than I really mean. Just tired of the back and forth. Let us be nostalgic. Let us mourn our losses in peace ;) <3 p.s. I think I'm probably responding in the wrong thread anyway. haha. I just noticed the OP title. Ugh. still though, I'm in line with the last half page or so. kk. ima shupitup now. curtsies kitten bacon taco (nom)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 28047	Posted - 2017.05.25 16:07:00 - [39] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits. sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit. oh you have a tank? change suit and counter. oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there. I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage. exactly "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9330	Posted - 2017.05.25 16:39:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits. sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit. oh you have a tank? change suit and counter. oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there. I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage. exactly Do you only get to pick one suit per match? Can you switch classes when you die? Can the same class have multiple fits? Project\|Nova - What We Know So Far

DeadlyAztec11 10175	Posted - 2017.05.25 16:57:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits. sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit. oh you have a tank? change suit and counter. oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there. I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage. exactly Please elaborate Rattati, is Nova really going to rely so much on luck? Other games that do this tend to have no respawn or tend to have rounds. I'm not sure how wise it is to have no ability to change class, since that would mean that if the game is long that you may be left innefectual for the majority of the match off of pure chance. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 28047	Posted - 2017.05.25 17:56:00 - [42] - Quote you will bring a Formation to battle which is a subset of your Dropsuits. They are unmodifiable during battle. Make your strategic choices before battle. You can switch between the Dropsuits in the formation during battle, either at "Supply Depots" or on death to react to threats. These are the tactical choices you make. This means that you can choose to bring a counter to as much as you can, or simply specialize. It may also require you to plan with your squad and/or team on who's bringing what. Teamwork may prove the tipping point. Strategy + Tactics + Teamwork = Success "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 14325	Posted - 2017.05.25 18:12:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: you will bring a Formation to battle which is a subset of your Dropsuits. They are unmodifiable during battle. Make your strategic choices before battle. You can switch between the Dropsuits in the formation during battle, either at "Supply Depots" or on death to react to threats. These are the tactical choices you make. This means that you can choose to bring a counter to as much as you can, or simply specialize. It may also require you to plan with your squad and/or team on who's bringing what. Teamwork may prove the tipping point. Strategy + Tactics + Teamwork = Success Is there a cap on the number of fittings we may create outside of a match. I understand that you can bring 6 to a match, right? My advice to you, playa.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 28049	Posted - 2017.05.25 18:15:00 - [44] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: you will bring a Formation to battle which is a subset of your Dropsuits. They are unmodifiable during battle. Make your strategic choices before battle. You can switch between the Dropsuits in the formation during battle, either at "Supply Depots" or on death to react to threats. These are the tactical choices you make. This means that you can choose to bring a counter to as much as you can, or simply specialize. It may also require you to plan with your squad and/or team on who's bringing what. Teamwork may prove the tipping point. Strategy + Tactics + Teamwork = Success Is there a cap on the number of fittings we may create outside of a match. I understand that you can bring 6 to a match, right? to soon to tell "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Spaceman-Rob Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1080	Posted - 2017.05.25 18:47:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: you will bring a Formation to battle which is a subset of your Dropsuits. They are unmodifiable during battle. Make your strategic choices before battle. You can switch between the Dropsuits in the formation during battle, either at "Supply Depots" or on death to react to threats. These are the tactical choices you make. This means that you can choose to bring a counter to as much as you can, or simply specialize. It may also require you to plan with your squad and/or team on who's bringing what. Teamwork may prove the tipping point. Strategy + Tactics + Teamwork = Success Is there a cap on the number of fittings we may create outside of a match. I understand that you can bring 6 to a match, right? to soon to tell Nobody seems bothered to ask you this question anymore but i'll give it a shot, When is this game going to be ready for us to play, are we looking at waiting months or years?
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1906	Posted - 2017.05.25 19:05:00 - [46] - Quote Happy to hear multiple limited fits... Had me worried there for a while. Now I just have to stop myself making them all variations of the same commando... Spaceman-Rob wrote: Nobody seems bothered to ask you this question anymore but i'll give it a shot, When is this game going to be ready for us to play, are we looking at waiting months or years? There's a reason nobody's asking this question... When the answer is known, it'll be announced. They're not gonna release it and just look round saying "where is everyone, who forgot to send the memo?"
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9335	Posted - 2017.05.25 20:02:00 - [47] - Quote Derpty Derp wrote: Happy to hear multiple limited fits... Had me worried there for a while. Now I just have to stop myself making them all variations of the same commando... Spaceman-Rob wrote: Nobody seems bothered to ask you this question anymore but i'll give it a shot, When is this game going to be ready for us to play, are we looking at waiting months or years? There's a reason nobody's asking this question... When the answer is known, it'll be announced. They're not gonna release it and just look round saying "where is everyone, who forgot to send the memo?" Not to mention if they're just starting to figure this stuff out, you're still a fair ways away from anything they're going to have the masses testing. Project\|Nova - What We Know So Far
DeadlyAztec11 10175	Posted - 2017.05.25 20:16:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: you will bring a Formation to battle which is a subset of your Dropsuits. They are unmodifiable during battle. Make your strategic choices before battle. You can switch between the Dropsuits in the formation during battle, either at "Supply Depots" or on death to react to threats. These are the tactical choices you make. This means that you can choose to bring a counter to as much as you can, or simply specialize. It may also require you to plan with your squad and/or team on who's bringing what. Teamwork may prove the tipping point. Strategy + Tactics + Teamwork = Success Then it is just as we suspected. It is not all together different from the majority of shooters. Crisis averted. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1491	Posted - 2017.05.25 21:19:00 - [49] - Quote Let's be honest here. How many of us wasted time or saw someone wasting time in a match because the were "making a fit?" Either because they ran out of suits or fittings, or because they wanted to specifically counter "that one guy" that killed them, nobody liked seeing that teammates borderline AFK during matches. Removing the ability to make or edit fit mid match is going to help people stay in the game.
DeadlyAztec11 10176	Posted - 2017.05.25 22:01:00 - [50] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Let's be honest here. How many of us wasted time or saw someone wasting time in a match because the were "making a fit?" Either because they ran out of suits or fittings, or because they wanted to specifically counter "that one guy" that killed them, nobody liked seeing that teammates borderline AFK during matches. Removing the ability to make or edit fit mid match is going to help people stay in the game. I wasn't aware anyone ever used that. It wastes so much time. I'm glad it won't exist in Nova. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.

One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17189	Posted - 2017.05.25 22:06:00 - [51] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Let's be honest here. How many of us wasted time or saw someone wasting time in a match because the were "making a fit?" Either because they ran out of suits or fittings, or because they wanted to specifically counter "that one guy" that killed them, nobody liked seeing that teammates borderline AFK during matches. Removing the ability to make or edit fit mid match is going to help people stay in the game. I did lots of times because I thought I had enough of something, and I ended up dying a lot in a particular match. It was annoying, and not very easy to do mid game. Hopefully this is a more automatic process in Nova. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2779	Posted - 2017.05.25 23:09:00 - [52] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Let's be honest here. How many of us wasted time or saw someone wasting time in a match because the were "making a fit?" Either because they ran out of suits or fittings, or because they wanted to specifically counter "that one guy" that killed them, nobody liked seeing that teammates borderline AFK during matches. Removing the ability to make or edit fit mid match is going to help people stay in the game. I wasn't aware anyone ever used that. It wastes so much time. I'm glad it won't exist in Nova. I have a better story, of when I tried to "buy" something during a battle in lag facility. It was worse than waiting for "buy aurum" page to load in the marketplace. Anyways, this change has no real consequences. The real one will be the amount of fits you can pre-set. Again I don't see much planned teamwork outside of end game (PC), i.e. specialized fits would be less prefered (as you'd probably need to multitask). I believe that it will also depend of how the racial suits (bonuses, etc.) are going to work. In Dust it was beneficial to have the "same" fit on different faction's suits. So in Nova, I can only assume, you will need to choose : more standardized fits covering more roles OR more specialized fits covering specific roles. P.S. This can suck for medium frames (mostly assaults). Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1492	Posted - 2017.05.26 00:47:00 - [53] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Let's be honest here. How many of us wasted time or saw someone wasting time in a match because the were "making a fit?" Either because they ran out of suits or fittings, or because they wanted to specifically counter "that one guy" that killed them, nobody liked seeing that teammates borderline AFK during matches. Removing the ability to make or edit fit mid match is going to help people stay in the game. I wasn't aware anyone ever used that. It wastes so much time. I'm glad it won't exist in Nova. I have a better story, of when I tried to "buy" something during a battle in lag facility. It was worse than waiting for "buy aurum" page to load in the marketplace. Anyways, this change has no real consequences. The real one will be the amount of fits you can pre-set. Again I don't see much planned teamwork outside of end game (PC), i.e. specialized fits would be less prefered (as you'd probably need to multitask). I believe that it will also depend of how the racial suits (bonuses, etc.) are going to work. In Dust it was beneficial to have the "same" fit on different faction's suits. So in Nova, I can only assume, you will need to choose : more standardized fits covering more roles OR more specialized fits covering specific roles. P.S. This can suck for medium frames (mostly assaults). I only had three real fits. proto cal assault, proto cal HAV were my main ones, and then a proto calmando that i used if i need to run both infantry/vehicle support 80% of my time in Dust was spent in cal assault standard and 10% in my cal HAV. i really didn't need anything else. a couple times i used a special case fit for a particular job, but that was it
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2779	Posted - 2017.05.26 11:50:00 - [54] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: I only had three real fits. proto cal assault, proto cal HAV were my main ones, and then a proto calmando that i used if i need to run both infantry/vehicle support 80% of my time in Dust was spent in cal assault standard and 10% in my cal HAV. i really didn't need anything else. a couple times i used a special case fit for a particular job, but that was it You were limitng yourself or you didn't participate in battles where you need different fits for different objectives . I'm not going to elabotere on it too much as it's in the past. EQ was the major part in my opinion. As you'd often run nanohives/scanner (+links if you could) for pubs and uplinks for all else. Scouts, fits under 27dB, fits under 21dB and fits under 15dB. The lower you go the more combat potential you lose. So there is no point in gimping yourself if the situation doesn't ask for it. Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
I-Shayz-I I----------I 6327	Posted - 2017.05.26 15:22:00 - [55] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits. sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit. oh you have a tank? change suit and counter. oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there. I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage. I liked being able to change my suit's loadout mid match, and then pick up said suit at a supply depot Even if it was wasting time, instead of having a million suits with little changes, I could say, swap out a flux grenade on my AV fit if there was a bunch of shield tanks, or create a custom fit while waiting for an ally to drop an uplink New video series!: Nova Weekly
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1913	Posted - 2017.05.26 17:57:00 - [56] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: I only had three real fits. proto cal assault, proto cal HAV were my main ones, and then a proto calmando that i used if i need to run both infantry/vehicle support 80% of my time in Dust was spent in cal assault standard and 10% in my cal HAV. i really didn't need anything else. a couple times i used a special case fit for a particular job, but that was it You were limitng yourself or you didn't participate in battles where you need different fits for different objectives . I'm not going to elabotere on it too much as it's in the past. EQ was the major part in my opinion. As you'd often run nanohives/scanner (+links if you could) for pubs and uplinks for all else. Scouts, fits under 27dB, fits under 21dB and fits under 15dB. The lower you go the more combat potential you lose. So there is no point in gimping yourself if the situation doesn't ask for it. I didn't scout, but I totally had different level needles depending on the pub teamwork level... I'm not paying for a protato needle if you're all gonna just suicide in 2 seconds anyway! I was usually too lazy to run my logi suit, I liked my fat-suit with 2 guns too much, so just swapping between hive/needle/uplink and even occasionally a rep tool was quite handy at times. Not to mention keeping the scrubby free medic suit a the top of the list, so if I were stood next to a supply depo when someone called an orbital I could swap before it got me... No cost, skraaaab. I guess with less fitting slots in the match, if they introduce vehicles at some point, I'm gonna be screwed, what with having to bring the remote explosives for the jihaaad, and the sentinel with nova knife to max hp as a turret gunner... Lets hope I don't need a pilot suit to fly a drophip, lol.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1493	Posted - 2017.05.27 00:07:00 - [57] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: I only had three real fits. proto cal assault, proto cal HAV were my main ones, and then a proto calmando that i used if i need to run both infantry/vehicle support 80% of my time in Dust was spent in cal assault standard and 10% in my cal HAV. i really didn't need anything else. a couple times i used a special case fit for a particular job, but that was it You were limitng yourself or you didn't participate in battles where you need different fits for different objectives . I'm not going to elabotere on it too much as it's in the past. EQ was the major part in my opinion. As you'd often run nanohives/scanner (+links if you could) for pubs and uplinks for all else. Scouts, fits under 27dB, fits under 21dB and fits under 15dB. The lower you go the more combat potential you lose. So there is no point in gimping yourself if the situation doesn't ask for it. if you got experience and know the meta, you can be ready for anything. and i was... with pretty much one single fit. just gotta know how to use it. general purpose fit + experience is better than specialized anything, but you can always counter the special stuff if you know their limitations
byte modal 1329	Posted - 2017.05.27 00:36:00 - [58] - Quote Gratz. I enjoyed the fittings and customizations. kitten bacon taco (nom)
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1493	Posted - 2017.05.27 01:38:00 - [59] - Quote byte modal wrote: Gratz. I enjoyed the fittings and customizations. Yet we played the same game. Funny how that works. see? something for everyone. im sure it must've pained some people to see such potential for variety and uniqueness in fitting boil down to meta and fotm fits
Clone D Solo Zen 2251	Posted - 2017.05.27 03:21:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits. sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit. oh you have a tank? change suit and counter. oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there. I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage. exactly I think the controversy here is that the painted image of the sci fi world of EVE is a place where consciousness can be transferred to a new body instantaneously and clones are manifested in mere seconds. There seems to be a discontinuity between that concept and limiting a player to a subset of loadouts during a match. The game designer may intend to enforce personal ideas that would ideally result in "more fun for all", however given the nature of the EVE universe, these fun rules may be perceived by some players in an oppressing light as imposing contrivances that dictate play style.

DeadlyAztec11 10187	Posted - 2017.05.27 03:48:00 - [61] - Quote Clone D wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I just cant shake that they dont want to let you adjust or even switch suits mid match. Weak af :/ best thing ever. I hated that I didn't need to form any strategy with any particular suit. I could always run and change suits. sniper in the redline with officer until someone came after me and change suit. oh you have a tank? change suit and counter. oh you thought my team was going to use the same trick from last game and now you deployed in wrong suit? just change suits Some people would just switch into a suicide suit just to blow up a tank, then switch back, like the tank never was there. I like knowing that if you deploy in the wrong suit... you're at a disadvantage. exactly I think the controversy here is that the painted image of the sci fi world of EVE is a place where consciousness can be transferred to a new body instantaneously and clones are manifested in mere seconds. There seems to be a discontinuity between that concept and limiting a player to a subset of loadouts during a match. The game designer may intend to enforce personal ideas that would ideally result in "more fun for all", however given the nature of the EVE universe, these fun rules may be perceived by some players in an oppressing light as imposing contrivances that dictate play style. That ship has sailed. Nova is putting game mechanics before lore, and having friendlies waste time customizing fits mid match was an inconvenience for the team as a whole. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Clone D Solo Zen 2251	Posted - 2017.05.27 04:17:00 - [62] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Clone D wrote: I think the controversy here is that the painted image of the sci fi world of EVE is a place where consciousness can be transferred to a new body instantaneously and clones are manifested in mere seconds. There seems to be a discontinuity between that concept and limiting a player to a subset of loadouts during a match. ... Nova is putting game mechanics before lore, and having friendlies waste time customizing fits mid match was an inconvenience for the team as a whole. I remember a few times when my team was failing miserably, and I decided to swap my T1 weapon for a T3 weapon. The ability to do that came in handy. How many people will simply leave matches when things aren't going in their team's favor, yet they don't have an appropriate suite available? Another issue is affordability. What if some noob brings all expensive suits to a match, and runs out of ISK and suits half way through? I'm guessing this has already been worked out somehow with blueprinting. Another issue is placing too much emphasis on dumb luck. In games where one specific strategy reliably beats another strategy, and there is no dynamism whatsoever, the outcome is dictated by the paper rock scissors of which strategy you chose to begin with. Then the question is: was it really strategy, or the luck of the draw? A great strategy game called chess allows you to change your strategy in response to your opponent at each progressive turn. This allows for some impressive comebacks and turning the game back in your favor if you have fallen behind. Without the choice of how to respond in a given situation, helplessness will abound. Nobody wants to feel helpless, and it's not fun. Games should be fun, right?
DUST Fiend 19230	Posted - 2017.05.27 04:41:00 - [63] - Quote By the sounds of it theyre doing away with tiers of things and ISK loss is more on a per match basis not per suit basis. The theory is that people will worry less about ISK loss and just fight. The problem is that like many things in DUST, this was actually a strength of the game. If PC actually worked and were improved upon, it would have provided a flourishing end game for players to actually move to. This coupled with a higher playerbase (more stable, shinier) would mean noobs would be matching noobs much more often and all would be well and good in nooblandia. If the game were re released as is but stable it would probably go net positive again. It had character, it took risks and did things no one else did, it was just on a dying system after having to rework all the original code. DUST was far more than gold and I fear that the soul might end up lost in translation, as it were So much for dropping assets on planet :/ Rage flavored bitter berry #BUS514
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9341	Posted - 2017.05.27 04:48:00 - [64] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: By the sounds of it theyre doing away with tiers of things and ISK loss is more on a per match basis not per suit basis. The theory is that people will worry less about ISK loss and just fight. The problem is that like many things in DUST, this was actually a strength of the game. If PC actually worked and were improved upon, it would have provided a flourishing end game for players to actually move to. This coupled with a higher playerbase (more stable, shinier) would mean noobs would be matching noobs much more often and all would be well and good in nooblandia. If the game were re released as is but stable it would probably go net positive again. It had character, it took risks and did things no one else did, it was just on a dying system after having to rework all the original code. DUST was far more than gold and I fear that the soul might end up lost in translation, as it were So much for dropping assets on planet :/ ISK is per death basis other consumables are per match basis ISK losses can be refunded with insurance in low level matches, but not high level matches. So ISK losses per death will be very real in high level "PC-like" battles. In a sense it's the same as asset loss, it's just auto restocking and charging you the ISK cost. Project\|Nova - What We Know So Far
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 2402	Posted - 2017.05.27 09:58:00 - [65] - Quote The idea looks good to me. We'll only have to build multiple fits before battle. I never changed my fits during a fight anyway. Doing so would make you AFK for 2-3 min.. not worth it. So it's not a major change IMO. Only real change would be to limit the amount of fits we can bring to battle. If it's ~3 then it's a game changing mechanic, if it's more, not so much. In PC, each person used to have a role which they stuck to. The AV guy would play AV as long as there're vehicles on the field. 3 fits are enough to cover that. Only problem is when there're no vehicles left. Then he's gonna need a backup plan with at least 1 other fit.. which he had to bring in the fight... I like it ! "I hope we don't have vehicles [in Nova] simply so we don't have to deal with the people who drive them." -Ripley Riley
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2785	Posted - 2017.05.27 10:01:00 - [66] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: if you got experience and know the meta, you can be ready for anything. and i was... with pretty much one single fit. just gotta know how to use it. general purpose fit + experience is better than specialized anything, but you can always counter the special stuff if you know their limitations I will accept one single fit if you are a pilot and never leave your vehicle General purpose fit is just that, a fit for general purpose. Say you need to speed hack, lay links, lay nanohives, kill some heavies under reps, capture the homepoint under scanners, get rid of dropships and cover the point, etc. I'm beating a dead horse at this point but I just want to throw this out On topic, if the ISK gains system will incentive people to fight to the end for a win them I'm all for it. In Dust rarely people fought for the win. ISK came in firstplace, then WP and then somewhere at the end there was the win. Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1494	Posted - 2017.05.27 10:05:00 - [67] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: By the sounds of it theyre doing away with tiers of things and ISK loss is more on a per match basis not per suit basis. The theory is that people will worry less about ISK loss and just fight. The problem is that like many things in DUST, this was actually a strength of the game. If PC actually worked and were improved upon, it would have provided a flourishing end game for players to actually move to. This coupled with a higher playerbase (more stable, shinier) would mean noobs would be matching noobs much more often and all would be well and good in nooblandia. If the game were re released as is but stable it would probably go net positive again. It had character, it took risks and did things no one else did, it was just on a dying system after having to rework all the original code. DUST was far more than gold and I fear that the soul might end up lost in translation, as it were So much for dropping assets on planet :/ ISK is per death basis other consumables are per match basis ISK losses can be refunded with insurance in low level matches, but not high level matches. So ISK losses per death will be very real in high level "PC-like" battles. In a sense it's the same as asset loss, it's just auto restocking and charging you the ISK cost. How do I lose ISK if everything is blueprint? why would anything need to be restocked? Why even have currency? Are there items we can use and are lost on a per death basis? If so, I missed that memo
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1494	Posted - 2017.05.27 10:55:00 - [68] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: if you got experience and know the meta, you can be ready for anything. and i was... with pretty much one single fit. just gotta know how to use it. general purpose fit + experience is better than specialized anything, but you can always counter the special stuff if you know their limitations I will accept one single fit if you are a pilot and never leave your vehicle General purpose fit is just that, a fit for general purpose. Say you need to speed hack, lay links, lay nanohives, kill some heavies under reps, capture the homepoint under scanners, get rid of dropships and cover the point, etc. I'm beating a dead horse at this point but I just want to throw this out On topic, if the ISK gains system will incentive people to fight to the end for a win them I'm all for it. In Dust rarely people fought for the win. ISK came in firstplace, then WP and then somewhere at the end there was the win. everybody is different. some people like to have a wallet, a watch, and a phone separately. i have an iphone... inside a case that also serves as a wallet.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1918	Posted - 2017.05.27 13:16:00 - [69] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: On topic, if the ISK gains system will incentive people to fight to the end for a win them I'm all for it. In Dust rarely people fought for the win. ISK came in firstplace, then WP and then somewhere at the end there was the win. Somewhere between dicking around and trying to **** off the enemy pilots? xD
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9345	Posted - 2017.05.27 16:05:00 - [70] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: How do I lose ISK if everything is blueprint? why would anything need to be restocked? Why even have currency? Are there items we can use and are lost on a per death basis? If so, I missed that memo Have you had a chance to look at the article in my signature yet? You can think of the ISK cost however you want, auto restock, repair cost, clone cost, whatever. The lore doesn't matter, just that functionally death will cost you an amount of Isk. Lower level battles will offer an insurance option a flat fee to cover all ISK expenditures. However you can opt out of it if you're good enough and won't die much, so your net profit will be better. Some items such as Tech III firmware are not consumed on death, but are instead consumed at the end of the match. There will likely be other consumables likes this, but firmware is the only one we have confirmed for at this time. Project\|Nova - What We Know So Far

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1494	Posted - 2017.05.27 16:44:00 - [71] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: How do I lose ISK if everything is blueprint? why would anything need to be restocked? Why even have currency? Are there items we can use and are lost on a per death basis? If so, I missed that memo Have you had a chance to look at the article in my signature yet? You can think of the ISK cost however you want, auto restock, repair cost, clone cost, whatever. The lore doesn't matter, just that functionally death will cost you an amount of Isk. Lower level battles will offer an insurance option a flat fee to cover all ISK expenditures. However you can opt out of it if you're good enough and won't die much, so your net profit will be better. Some items such as Tech III firmware are not consumed on death, but are instead consumed at the end of the match. There will likely be other consumables likes this, but firmware is the only one we have confirmed for at this time. I did, but reading it again only prompts me to ask the question again. If everything is a blueprint, and ISK is used to upgrade... stuff... what do you do with ISK when you've unlocked/upgraded everything? Blueprints can not be lost once purchased, so once you purchase a blue print, you will not need to purchase it ever again. Another question is why is there going to be insurance for items you cannot functionally lose? I am missing the point of ISK here unless.... ISK is being used in place of the word "experience." If I replace ISK with the word "experience," then a lot of what Rattati has said makes more sense. You gain "experience" at the end of each battle. The amount of "experience" you get at the end of a battle depends on how you performed. Dying a lot will get you less "experience." You use "experience to unlock/upgrade... stuff... So is there a limit to how much "experience" you can gain? How much "experience" will it cost to unlock/upgrade everything? And what will you use your "experience" for after you've unlocked/upgraded everything? In a traditional rpg game, experience is quite useless after you max out your character. Either you stop gaining experience, or you keep gaining experience, but won't have anything to spend it on after you reach the max character level. I'd like clarification on what exactly the point of having ISK will be in Nova, because it sounds like somethings been lost in translation.
One Eyed King Nos Nothi 17196	Posted - 2017.05.27 18:17:00 - [72] - Quote Essentially you are asking how to have a productive economy where risk and reward are properly balanced. I don't think there is an easy answer to that. Plenty of games try for that, but many end up just like Dust in which for many, if not all, currency becomes so easily gotten it loses any real sense of value, risk of loss, and pleasure of reward. It is a good question to address, but it those kinds of problems change over time, and will likely require many fixes at various points, so I wouldn't even know whether specific answers are possible until at some point during alpha or beta. Former CEO of the Land of the BIind. Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1495	Posted - 2017.05.27 22:28:00 - [73] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Essentially you are asking how to have a productive economy where risk and reward are properly balanced. I don't think there is an easy answer to that. Plenty of games try for that, but many end up just like Dust in which for many, if not all, currency becomes so easily gotten it loses any real sense of value, risk of loss, and pleasure of reward. It is a good question to address, but it those kinds of problems change over time, and will likely require many fixes at various points, so I wouldn't even know whether specific answers are possible until at some point during alpha or beta. So far I think there are two options focusing on risk/reward. You can choose to be fully insured and get a lower ISK payout. Or You can waive your insurance and claim a larger ISK payout. I think there should be 3 options. 1. Fully insured with no ISK payout. You risk nothing, you get nothing. 2. Partial insurance with partial ISK payout. 50% refunds and 50% of ISK payout. 3. No insurance. Full ISK payout. This lets players scale their risk/rewards while building confidence and experience with game mechanics.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2788	Posted - 2017.05.27 23:44:00 - [74] - Quote I'll just add this thought. Insurance doesn't cover T3 gear. Thus you will : 1. Think twice before using it in pubs 2. Need to take the risk (no insurance, maximize ISK gain) in order to afford T3 gear Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
Maken Tosch DUST University 13771	Posted - 2017.05.28 00:03:00 - [75] - Quote Clone D wrote: I think the controversy here is that the painted image of the sci fi world of EVE is a place where consciousness can be transferred to a new body instantaneously and clones are manifested in mere seconds. There seems to be a discontinuity between that concept and limiting a player to a subset of loadouts during a match. The game designer may intend to enforce personal ideas that would ideally result in "more fun for all", however given the nature of the EVE universe, these fun rules may be perceived by some players in an oppressing light as imposing contrivances that dictate play style. To be fair, in Eve Online, if you brought a specific ship to the fight, you are stuck with that ship until you lose it. If you want to get back to the fight, you have to dock up, assemble another ship, undock and hope you don't get gate camped on the way back to the fight. You can use mobile supply depots to modify your fit somewhere in a safe spot in system or get near a ship that offers a fitting service, but you're stuck with the ship specifically unless you have a friend bringing other ships for you in the ship maintenance bay. Eve Online Invite https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=ed64524f-15ca-4997-ab92-eaae0af74b7f&action=buddy
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9347	Posted - 2017.05.28 00:11:00 - [76] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: I'll just add this thought. Insurance doesn't cover T3 gear. Thus you will : 1. Think twice before using it in pubs 2. Need to take the risk (no insurance, maximize ISK gain) in order to afford T3 gear You're misunderstanding. There is no "t3" gear. It's just gear that's upgraded over time. The level of upgrade has nothing to do with insurance payouts. Project\|Nova - What We Know So Far
DUST Fiend 19237	Posted - 2017.05.28 01:18:00 - [77] - Quote So what rewards are there for over performing / punishments for under performing? Rage flavored bitter berry #BUS514
DeadlyAztec11 10192	Posted - 2017.05.28 01:42:00 - [78] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: So what rewards are there for over performing / punishments for under performing? At the lowest level of competition there won't be any punishment. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9348	Posted - 2017.05.28 02:22:00 - [79] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: So what rewards are there for over performing / punishments for under performing? I would suspect that....insurance plus a loss would eat up the majority of profits. A win would provide a noticeable bonus and perhaps personal performance would be an additional bonus. So fail too hard and lose....close to no reward. Do well personally and win the match? Make it rain! Project\|Nova - What We Know So Far
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 1496	Posted - 2017.05.28 02:35:00 - [80] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So what rewards are there for over performing / punishments for under performing? I would suspect that....insurance plus a loss would eat up the majority of profits. A win would provide a noticeable bonus and perhaps personal performance would be an additional bonus. So fail too hard and lose....close to no reward. Do well personally and win the match? Make it rain! When considering this statement, it makes more sense. So insurance costs would be deducted from any reward payout at the end of match. Fail and break even, or win and make something of a profit. Waiving insurance costs would simply what? Add some sort of multiplier to end of match payouts? I'm seeing it more clearly now. Thanks guys :)

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations 9352	Posted - 2017.05.28 02:58:00 - [81] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: So what rewards are there for over performing / punishments for under performing? I would suspect that....insurance plus a loss would eat up the majority of profits. A win would provide a noticeable bonus and perhaps personal performance would be an additional bonus. So fail too hard and lose....close to no reward. Do well personally and win the match? Make it rain! When considering this statement, it makes more sense. So insurance costs would be deducted from any reward payout at the end of match. Fail and break even, or win and make something of a profit. Waiving insurance costs would simply what? Add some sort of multiplier to end of match payouts? I'm seeing it more clearly now. Thanks guys :) I mean you'll probably still see a small amount of profits at the end of a loss + nsurance match....enough to satiate new players, but not enough for someone deeper into the game. Project\|Nova - What We Know So Far
DeadlyAztec11 10193	Posted - 2017.05.28 06:11:00 - [82] - Quote Sequal's Back wrote: The idea looks good to me. We'll only have to build multiple fits before battle. I never changed my fits during a fight anyway. Doing so would make you AFK for 2-3 min.. not worth it. So it's not a major change IMO. Only real change would be to limit the amount of fits we can bring to battle. If it's ~3 then it's a game changing mechanic, if it's more, not so much. In PC, each person used to have a role which they stuck to. The AV guy would play AV as long as there're vehicles on the field. 3 fits are enough to cover that. Only problem is when there're no vehicles left. Then he's gonna need a backup plan with at least 1 other fit.. which he had to bring in the fight... I like it ! Except, there probably won't be vehicles... Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Sequal's Back Dead Man's Game Preatoriani 2403	Posted - 2017.05.28 10:26:00 - [83] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Sequal's Back wrote: The idea looks good to me. We'll only have to build multiple fits before battle. I never changed my fits during a fight anyway. Doing so would make you AFK for 2-3 min.. not worth it. So it's not a major change IMO. Only real change would be to limit the amount of fits we can bring to battle. If it's ~3 then it's a game changing mechanic, if it's more, not so much. In PC, each person used to have a role which they stuck to. The AV guy would play AV as long as there're vehicles on the field. 3 fits are enough to cover that. Only problem is when there're no vehicles left. Then he's gonna need a backup plan with at least 1 other fit.. which he had to bring in the fight... I like it ! Except, there probably won't be vehicles... Oh yeah I know. It was just to make a point ! "I hope we don't have vehicles [in Nova] simply so we don't have to deal with the people who drive them." -Ripley Riley
Mejt0 Made in Poland... 2789	Posted - 2017.05.28 10:27:00 - [84] - Quote By T3 I meant the end game gear overall, but I guess I got my answer. So in theory it sounds like it can work. Low risk low payout / High risk high payout; and if payouts are tied to the outcome of the battle people will indeed fight for the win. So it all boils down to the numbers right? As long as affordable doesn't collide with farmable I'm good. Vigilant Pilot Happy Hunting
PARKOUR PRACTIONER Eternal Beings 4741	Posted - 2017.05.28 18:46:00 - [85] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Let's be honest here. How many of us wasted time or saw someone wasting time in a match because the were "making a fit?" Either because they ran out of suits or fittings, or because they wanted to specifically counter "that one guy" that killed them, nobody liked seeing that teammates borderline AFK during matches. Removing the ability to make or edit fit mid match is going to help people stay in the game. I wasn't aware anyone ever used that. It wastes so much time. I'm glad it won't exist in Nova. I was so guilty of this. For a while the best fits i would come up with were during battles until you got kicked for not spawning in. Then i got better. PSN SilentChaozz Autistic with extreme chronic pain. Hey, it's a rare one!
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 1922	Posted - 2017.05.28 18:58:00 - [86] - Quote PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Let's be honest here. How many of us wasted time or saw someone wasting time in a match because the were "making a fit?" Either because they ran out of suits or fittings, or because they wanted to specifically counter "that one guy" that killed them, nobody liked seeing that teammates borderline AFK during matches. Removing the ability to make or edit fit mid match is going to help people stay in the game. I wasn't aware anyone ever used that. It wastes so much time. I'm glad it won't exist in Nova. I was so guilty of this. For a while the best fits i would come up with were during battles until you got kicked for not spawning in. Then i got better. Ironically, this would be less of a problem with a decent PC, since the time wasted was mostly waiting for the UI to react.


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