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The Issue With Shields

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Devadander Woodgrain Atari 704	Posted - 2015.09.22 13:21:00 - [31] - Quote Okiniwa wrote: what if we had plasma/laser damage mods to be put in high's and rail/projectile damage mods to be put in lows whilst buffing recharge delays on cal + min assault. I see min + cal assaults with 200-300 shield and 500-340 armour regularly. This way both armour and shield suits can stack dmg mods while being having viable tank....or they could run biotics....or dual-tank Basically, with the new shield ideas, all suits will water into dual tanked copies of each other all running rail rifles. BORING514 Next build. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Okiniwa Expert Intervention Caldari State 20	Posted - 2015.09.22 13:23:00 - [32] - Quote Devadander wrote: Okiniwa wrote: what if we had plasma/laser damage mods to be put in high's and rail/projectile damage mods to be put in lows whilst buffing recharge delays on cal + min assault. I see min + cal assaults with 200-300 shield and 500-340 armour regularly. This way both armour and shield suits can stack dmg mods while being having viable tank....or they could run biotics....or dual-tank Basically, with the new shield ideas, all suits will water into dual tanked copies of each other all running rail rifles. BORING514 Next build. I do not understand why you quote my post. My idea is great!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.22 13:24:00 - [33] - Quote "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Devadander Woodgrain Atari 704	Posted - 2015.09.22 13:25:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: [img]http://i.imgur.com/wIXicea.png[/img] LMAO Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Press Attache The Office of The Attorney General 142	Posted - 2015.09.22 13:44:00 - [35] - Quote MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: Another option would be to have shield regulators increase resistance by about 4/5/6% to help the balance against damage mods, and/or having regulators increase the shield damage threshold by %. Having regs increase the damage threshold is an interesting idea, provided regs don't get buffed in any other way. If they get a bump in their current stat, that should be tried first before this option, but if shields are still struggling after the first couple of buffs this idea should get some looking into. Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.22 13:52:00 - [36] - Quote TheD1CK wrote: - want short regen delays with good regen amounts, you Shield tank - want constant regen underfire, you Armour tank .. This. However I don't think it has to be the case that Caldari and Minmatar suits have considerably better base shield regen stats than Gallente and Amarr. How you tank should be more to do with which modules you fit rather than which suit you choose. Caldari suits should encourage the use of shield rather than armour modules. Minmatar should encourage the use of either. It should be your choice to fit shield tank modules that should result in short regen delays and good regen amounts. One danger of the CPM proposal, is that by giving all suits short regen delays, there is less of a benefit for people who actually choose to fit their suit out for shield tanking. It all comes down to regulators. These are the crucial modules for differentiating armour and shield tanking. You can't dual tank effectively if you need to use regulators, as they take up module slots for your armour. They also are much more effective when fitted in conjunction with shield rechargers, further creating a synergy in a shield tank loadout, and ensuring shield tanking is more effective on shield suits, due to the percentage nature of rechargers. Shield regulators have to maintain their current worth, and I fear that reducing everyone's delay will diminish this. Or put another way. If everyone has short shield delay, why would you fit regulators on your suit? If you are a shield suit, would you not feel encouraged to fit armour instead? If you were an armour suit, would you not feel encouraged to pair your armour with shields? Afterall your delay isn't so short that you feel you would need a regulator or two, so why not? Also you end up with shield suits with bad armour stats but good shield stats, vs armour suits with good armour stats and good shield stats. Whereas if both had to fit shield regulators to get good shield stats you couldn't have both good shields and armour.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Four Horseman Tactical Agency 2	Posted - 2015.09.22 13:54:00 - [37] - Quote dzizur wrote: What's wrong with a glass cannon fit? And could anyone give me one sensible argument why everyone wants TTK to be longer and longer and longer everytime. Like wtf, it's enough I have to empty 2 full clips from my sidearm to kill a dude... Probably because what works in EVE just wouldn't work for Dust , I play Dust because every gun fight is a war within it's self and it's not child like , like COD where your shot one or two times and your dead , that's not substance and if you think that a glass cannon would work , try running them for the next month and find out how well you would do . The fact that no matter if you stack shield mods in all the highs , you would never meet or top armor stacked in the lows and while you have movement penalties , it's nothing like the dep-delays of shield mods because shields get the initial damage where as armor is the tank that allows you to seek and find cover to regen . You would get wreaked using " glass cannon's " in today's Dust because of the state of shields , weapons that just **** shields and the fact that Caldari has little to no base armor and even less in base reps . You could say YOU do it but that kind of dictate the style that OTHERS MUST PLAY , some might not like that style and I see no problems with people who play Caldari using armor , it's a choice I know that attracts me to this game , the fact that I don't have to be a clone of anyone else and I'm not locked into a particular look or playstyle . That's one of the reasons that I say , everything that works in EVE just wouldn't work in Dust and there are too many shooters out there that tout customization and do a fine job with it , where you just don't feel like your being locked into a particular playstyle or look even . Destiny and Warframe to name two . I don't know why you couldn't get rid of damage mods when you have a damage boost from the warbarge but that's neither here nor there and that's not saying that I advocate that but if damage mods were to get canned , you do have a boost from the warbarge that some are calling for to be removed , at least then it would serve an actual purpose instead of a stomp booster like it is now . Teamwork is really important - said the Tyrannosarus Rex from Kung Fury .
WyrmHero1945 Finesse Soldiers 689	Posted - 2015.09.22 14:12:00 - [38] - Quote I agree with you. Shield recharge and delay are fine. CalSent/Mando maybe should get 25 HP/s, but every else seems ok and I like that delay/recharge is dependent on suit size/role. Damage mods on the lows would be the best solution, with stacking penalties applied if there are high slot mods already equipped. That, or nerf the ScR. Which would then be like it used to, a kill assists machine. Need to be very careful in that nerf.
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.22 14:13:00 - [39] - Quote TTK is a thing that needs to remain balanced. Too short and the depth of using cover, pressure/retreat, damage profiles, movement, regen and support gets lost. Too long and the depth of positioning, flanking, strategy and EWAR get's lost. TTK being too long emphasises the numbers advantage of higher sp players. TTK being too short reduces fitting variety as everyone scrambles to fit enough protection and damage. I think it's pretty balanced right now. I don't see a need to mess with it.
Alcina Nektaria KILL-EM-QUICK Rise Of Legion. 328	Posted - 2015.09.22 14:34:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: -insert sad caldari life here- this.....just.........lol Check Us Out! KEQ and ROFL. Diplomat. I lik 2 psh rd buttnz


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.22 14:46:00 - [41] - Quote Press Attache wrote: MexXx Dust-Slayer wrote: Another option would be to have shield regulators increase resistance by about 4/5/6% to help the balance against damage mods, and/or having regulators increase the shield damage threshold by %. Having regs increase the damage threshold is an interesting idea, provided regs don't get buffed in any other way. If they get a bump in their current stat, that should be tried first before this option, but if shields are still struggling after the first couple of buffs this idea should get some looking into. we just discussed faction based shield thresholds, even role based, something like this CA 12 MI 10 GA 8 AM 6 Caldari: Assault 12 Commando 12 Sentinel 11 Scout 11 Logistics 10 "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Asad Thahab-Jabal Incorruptibles 98	Posted - 2015.09.22 14:50:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We just discussed faction based shield thresholds, even role based, something like this CA 12 MI 10 GA 8 AM 6 Caldari: Assault 12 Commando 12 Sentinel 11 Scout 11 Logistics 10 What is the current threshold? 6? Ripley Riley is on safari until Oct 9th. I will represent him until he returns.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.22 14:52:00 - [43] - Quote Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We just discussed faction based shield thresholds, even role based, something like this CA 12 MI 10 GA 8 AM 6 Caldari: Assault 12 Commando 12 Sentinel 11 Scout 11 Logistics 10 What is the current threshold? 6? yeah "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.09.22 15:06:00 - [44] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: the shield stuff is multi-stage. Stage 1 is straightening out recharge delays. 1A: This has a massive effect not only on survivability, but on fitting choices. Common wisdom is that a proper shield tank on an assault (if you don't want to just give in and put ferroscales on) is three regulators in the lows. That means a calassault has to devote eight slots to their tank versus a gal/amarr assault's four. One of the lows on a gal/am assault is usually reserved for biotics, sometimes two but usually two ferros or plates and one or two reps. By making regulators less mandatory for a good shield fit rather than absolutely critical it improves the calassault (and to a lesser degree, shield tanked minmatar suits) by a good deal. Suddenly damps, biotics and other modules become an option. Stage 2 is adjusting modules so they aren't ass. Stage 3 is making fun of me and my ideas. Seriously, I actually have a sense of humor. I can take it as good as I dish. Stage 4 is comparing usage and, more importantly Kill per spawn metrics with armor to see if we're on the right track. Lastly, if we find that we cannot stabilize Shields in a similar Kill/spawn range as the Armor mods, THEN we look at toning down armor. There is no one on the CPM who is delusional enough to believe that this is the magic bullet that will save all. I push it because lowering shield delays means that fitting options are less automatically dictated for shield suit players if they don't want to have to fit armor for viability. On number one, totally agree. I've mentioned this a few times in the past, though then I was pointing more to tanks as the disparity is painfully obvious there. I mean really, why do shields HAVE to fit for full D in all slots, or in the tanks case at current, full D AND CPU/PG, to get a tank resembling the armor version minus the damage mods and heatsinks? It's less an issue in shield suits, but still there. Case in point, my Cal assault stacked with armor, damage mods, and a freaking rep hive. Thing can be quite a beast, yet still worse than it's armor counterpart.
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 707	Posted - 2015.09.22 15:08:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We just discussed faction based shield thresholds, even role based, something like this CA 12 MI 10 GA 8 AM 6 Caldari: Assault 12 Commando 12 Sentinel 11 Scout 11 Logistics 10 What is the current threshold? 6? yeah So much yes please, I suggested this to cross and am glad it's made it this far. Current threshold leaves me quite dead even at 100m from a single MLT CR. Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
Lightning35 Delta514 The Warlords Legion No Context 1	Posted - 2015.09.22 15:15:00 - [46] - Quote Well, when fitted properly, that tanked Amarr assault has $h!t regen and you can kill him after your shields recharge again. And that Gallente assault, uses 1 slot for speed to get in range. And shields have more regen then a galass has armor rep, and more shields than armor. Again, WHEN FITTED PROPERLY. CEO of T-W-L YouTube- Lightning35 Delta514 Twitter- @LD3514
Zene Ren Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 141	Posted - 2015.09.22 15:22:00 - [47] - Quote Why can't we just introduce resistance mods, can anyone tell me this? Balance is the key to achieve knowledge and understanding
Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.22 15:24:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: we just discussed faction based shield thresholds, even role based, something like this CA 12 MI 10 GA 8 AM 6 Caldari: Assault 12 Commando 12 Sentinel 11 Scout 11 Logistics 10 I really feel shield thresholds are a red herring. I don't see that they make much in game difference at all. Correct me if Im wrong, but isn't the threshold just the amount of damage your shields can take before the regen delay kicks in? How often do you get hit by something doing less than 13 damage?
Loyal Glasses G.L.O.R.Y 93	Posted - 2015.09.22 15:24:00 - [49] - Quote My thoughts, the Shield to Armor in this game is fine. The problem is with the damage Weapons & Grenades do. Let's tweak those numbers for this coming hotfix Glasses of the Loyal Variety > "The dead are notoriously unproductive "
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2015.09.22 15:52:00 - [50] - Quote Just a small idea regarding the shield depleted delay. I think this should be a race stat, I.e don't change with the role. Let's for argument say all Caldari roles gets the same shield depleted delay as the Sentinel (1s). This would give rise to an interesting mechanic where it would be more beneficial to fully deplete your shield rather than taking cover immediately. However, by doing so will risk immediate death as our armour is paper thin. Enemies have to try and finish us off completely before we duck into cover, or make sure they don't drain the shields completely before dealing the final blow.

Varoth Drac Dead Man's Game 1	Posted - 2015.09.22 16:05:00 - [51] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: the shield stuff is multi-stage. Stage 1 is straightening out recharge delays. 1A: This has a massive effect not only on survivability, but on fitting choices. Common wisdom is that a proper shield tank on an assault (if you don't want to just give in and put ferroscales on) is three regulators in the lows. That means a calassault has to devote eight slots to their tank versus a gal/amarr assault's four. One of the lows on a gal/am assault is usually reserved for biotics, sometimes two but usually two ferros or plates and one or two reps. By making regulators less mandatory for a good shield fit rather than absolutely critical it improves the calassault (and to a lesser degree, shield tanked minmatar suits) by a good deal. Suddenly damps, biotics and other modules become an option. I don't think three regulators is common wisdom. Two maybe, three incurs stacking penalties. Not saying people don't fit three, and some people can make do with one. Consider these two fits: Caldari assault Gallente assault Both have two damage mods, two hp mods, three regen mods and a biotic. The Gal assault has a bit more hp, the Cal assault has slightly faster regen. They are similar and so provide a good comparison. In my opinion, the faster regen on the Caldari assault is not enough to make up for lower hp and the fact they have to wait for regen to kick in. The solution isn't to make the suit more like an armour tank, by reducing the delay, or increasing the hp, it's to increase the regen bonus on the energiser. This maintains the shield distinction of lower hp, delay, and faster regen. I don't know where the idea of a common 8 vs 4 slot tank investment comes from. It's probably more like 6 for shields and 5 for armour. I'm all for promoting module fitting variety, I just think targeting regulator use is risky as they are so important for discouraging dual tanking.
Rhydra L Wong CLASS WAR NOT RACE WAR 37	Posted - 2015.09.22 16:14:00 - [52] - Quote I think a big issue is the philosophy behind squading with other players and also FW. Caldari are best at long distances. As a squad of all Caldari this would be wonderful be rarely happens. There needs to be a game mode where the selection of gear is limited to one faction. Like, all Caldari vs. all Gallente. I've posted about this before, but essentially this is what FW needs to become. Take the "progression" tab, rename it "factions", limit FW dropsuit choices to those premade fits (with a great deal of changes). Now we will be able to see how our dropsuits and tech (like shields) are supposed to be deployed in battle. This would also work to actually give players a vision on how/why to upgrade their suits. No veterans or anyone really playing past a few days uses that tab for an actual guide. It could easily become one in this scenerio. ....and yeah, maybe reduce or penalize stacking of damage mods, and also just bump up the ammount of shields we get per module a little, and fix the calmando.
Murder Medic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 116	Posted - 2015.09.22 16:22:00 - [53] - Quote Rhydra L Wong wrote: I think a big issue is the philosophy behind squading with other players and also FW. Caldari are best at long distances. As a squad of all Caldari this would be wonderful be rarely happens. There needs to be a game mode where the selection of gear is limited to one faction. Like, all Caldari vs. all Gallente. I've posted about this before, but essentially this is what FW needs to become. Take the "progression" tab, rename it "factions", limit FW dropsuit choices to those premade fits (with a great deal of changes). Now we will be able to see how our dropsuits and tech (like shields) are supposed to be deployed in battle. This would also work to actually give players a vision on how/why to upgrade their suits. No veterans or anyone really playing past a few days uses that tab for an actual guide. It could easily become one in this scenerio. ....and yeah, maybe reduce or penalize stacking of damage mods, and also just bump up the ammount of shields we get per module a little, and fix the calmando. That would be so silly. I could go to war, but that AK47 was made in Russia...soooo, guess I'm just gonna go read a book.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 4	Posted - 2015.09.22 16:57:00 - [54] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: the shield stuff is multi-stage. Stage 1 is straightening out recharge delays. 1A: This has a massive effect not only on survivability, but on fitting choices. Common wisdom is that a proper shield tank on an assault (if you don't want to just give in and put ferroscales on) is three regulators in the lows. That means a calassault has to devote eight slots to their tank versus a gal/amarr assault's four. One of the lows on a gal/am assault is usually reserved for biotics, sometimes two but usually two ferros or plates and one or two reps. By making regulators less mandatory for a good shield fit rather than absolutely critical it improves the calassault (and to a lesser degree, shield tanked minmatar suits) by a good deal. Suddenly damps, biotics and other modules become an option. Stage 2 is adjusting modules so they aren't ass. Stage 3 is making fun of me and my ideas. Seriously, I actually have a sense of humor. I can take it as good as I dish. Stage 4 is comparing usage and, more importantly Kill per spawn metrics with armor to see if we're on the right track. Lastly, if we find that we cannot stabilize Shields in a similar Kill/spawn range as the Armor mods, THEN we look at toning down armor. There is no one on the CPM who is delusional enough to believe that this is the magic bullet that will save all. I push it because lowering shield delays means that fitting options are less automatically dictated for shield suit players if they don't want to have to fit armor for viability. I don't think that you get it still.....I am saying that Caldari suits can not compete with the damage output of the armor suits. I don't necessarily need a nerf to armor. By allowing the damage mods to be in either the low or high slots will allow shield suits to compete. We can restrict it to so that you can only put damage mods in either the high OR the low slots in one fit and not both. I'm not saying that that will solve all of the problems but it would be a major step. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
TIGER SHARK1501 Savage Bullet RUST415 405	Posted - 2015.09.22 16:59:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: [img]http://i.imgur.com/wIXicea.png[/img] Ah ha ha!! =ƒÿé
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 4	Posted - 2015.09.22 17:00:00 - [56] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Everytime I post in one of those CPM threads about shields before it gets locked...my point gets glossed over. Does anyone else agree that shield regen/recharge is not the problem with the shield tanking? Shield tanking is not viable cause you are melted by the double & triple damage modded amarr and gallente suits. Not to mention throwing flux grenades are like nukes to shield tankers and they are easier to use than a locus grenade. I'm not familiar with all of the CPM's style of play or preferences but I do know one has been a longtime advocate for armor and has expressed many times that he felt that shields are in a great place (before he became CPM). Now, in Aeon's threads, everyone is agrees on what the problem with shield tanking is? I don't undersand at all. It is a simple thing to understand. Armor suit maintain their primary tank and can stack double or triple damage mods on ARs or laser based weapons (20% damage bonus to shields). How can a shield tanker compete with the damage output if we have to sacrifice our primary tank to keep up with their damage output? In even clearer terms....amarr assault gets to don 700hp of armor with damage mods on a weapon that has a 20% damage bonus to shields. Caldari assault would have a bit over 500 shields if we sacrifice two highs for damage mods. In order to compensate, you see cal assaults with armor plates. Armor tanking on a cal assault defeats the purpose of shield tanking. One plate may be ok but I see 400 hp of armor on cal assaults regularly. Does everyone disagree with this being the big issue or do people agree that the focus needs to lie here? I think every CPM is pretty unanimous that we generally hate damage mods existing and if we had our way they'd probably go the way of the Dodo. Mostly because of situations exactly like you pointed out, which leaves us with one of two options: Either we move to introduce damage mods in the lows to boost shield usage in some six degrees of separation way, or we move for the removal or discouraged use of damage mods in the highs. It's sort of a pickle, for certain, and I don't think we have a solution. What we are working on though is a multi-step shield proposal (you've seen step one, of which there are about four) because it is something we can advocate changing because it's been needing an overhaul anyway. Shields haven't seen much change since the early days of Uprising and the current system is chaotic and confusing. Which, we're all sort of hesitant to change armor, or damage mods, or basically anything until that system actually has some sort of planned and functional design. All we're asking for is some feedback and patience. Yes, we understand that the current meta is armor. Yes, we understand that many players feel that a quick solution would be to nerf armor. We're not interested in quick band-aid solutions though, we're interested in long-term benefits that we don't have to keep having these sort of conversations over and to do that we need a functional design that we can work off of. We want shields and armor to have their unique playstyles and it has always been a design philosophy in Dust 514 that armor was about high HP while shields were about high Regen. That is our baseline. Cross Atu wrote: #1 is the base suit stats having a method that provides a solid foundation #2 is tuning the mods (and hopefully adding a few options as well) to give shields more love and diversity #3 is looking at possible comparative issues with weapons, such a profile bias, this is more of a side step. #4 is looking at the raw stats of the armor mods. Right....and I'm not asking for an armor nerf. We can remove damage mods altogether or we can allow damage mods to be able to fit in either the high OR low slot in any fit. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 4	Posted - 2015.09.22 17:04:00 - [57] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Jonny D Buelle wrote: The problem is shield regen and shield delay. Amarr and Gallente weapons are anti-shield weapons just like Caldari and Minmatar weapons are anti-armour. Flux grenades are a problem and need to take a look at. Even a basic flux is powerful enough to wipe a Caldari Sent's shields. My proposal is to nerf its damage vs infantry but keep the damage against vechiles the same. I have no idea about numbers. I also agree that shield tanking is not viable as to have semi-decent shields, you are stacking shield mods in your highs and have no place to put damage modifiers or mylolfibs. Why not either make a new slot for damage modifiers in the suit or make it so they can be fitted in either high slots or low slots. Mostly because of the impact it'd have on TTK. Just imagine a Minmatar Assault running damage mods in the lows and Myos in the highs. He'd have to sacrifice his armor tank to do so making him easier to kill. Right now, we have myofibs and explosive weapons which is probably the most cheesy thing a player can do at this point. So, it is what it is. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
Avallo Kantor 869	Posted - 2015.09.22 17:12:00 - [58] - Quote One idea I mentioned in the original shield discussion (the one that got derailed) was the idea of only having one shield recharge delay stat, and having that number then be modulated by current shield hp to be different. For example, assuming a 10 second recharge delay (large number to make easy math): At 50% shield hp the recharge delay is 50% so only 5 seconds, At 25% shield hp the recharge delay is 75% so 7.5 seconds. (We could always have a different algorithm if this is too simple / bad) The end result is that it better encourages shield users to make use of cover as they can have extremely low recharges if they can pop in and out of cover each time only requiring a fraction of their normal recharge delay. Armor tanks however would almost never benefit from this as they would always incur their full recharge delay, even if the values are not significantly different from other races. The other more dramatic (and probably stupid) idea I had was to make regen a function over time. Basically every suit would have a 1 second delay, and a regular shield delay. After the one second delay shields begin to regenerate at 1hp/sec with the regen rate increasing linearly until it reaches 100% of the suits regen value at it's normal shield recharge delay. Using simple math again, assuming a 11 second recharge delay and 100 regen, then it would start out at 1 hp /sec at the one second mark, and increase by 10 hp / sec every second until it reached max (or full shield recharge). With damage restarting the delay (and regen rate) as per normal. "Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 4	Posted - 2015.09.22 17:13:00 - [59] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Weapon profiles are a bit of a moot point, because whilst laser weapons do +20% to shields, explosives do +20% to armour. Also both combat rifles, and crucially HMGs, do +15% to armour. So I don't think weapon profiles are the issue. If we consider damage mods, yes armour suits can fit them without sacrificing tank. However, unlike armour suits, shield suits can improve their regen with regulators, without sacrificing tank. Now, energisers are in an interesting place, as they compete with both extenders and damage mods, and regulators need to be used with them to gain full effect. That's a lot of sacrifice, and I believe that it should come with a high reward. Also, the damage mod argument only really works in a world where you only fit tank and damage. There are other low slot modules that armour suits would have to sacrifice tank to fit. I'm not saying shields and armour are balanced, I'm just saying it's not a problem with weapon profiles or damage mods. since when does the CR and RR put out 15% bonus against armor? The last update I remember was to make both of them -10/+10 towards shield/armor. And about your damage mod point.....most people do is fit tank and damage on those armor fits. When guys are running around with 700+hp armor and 190hp shields, you already know what they're running. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 4	Posted - 2015.09.22 17:17:00 - [60] - Quote WyrmHero1945 wrote: I agree with you. Shield recharge and delay are fine. CalSent/Mando maybe should get 25 HP/s, but every else seems ok and I like that delay/recharge is dependent on suit size/role. Damage mods on the lows would be the best solution, with stacking penalties applied if there are high slot mods already equipped. That, or nerf the ScR. Which would then be like it used to, a kill assists machine. Need to be very careful in that nerf. This guy gets it. CCP could rig it so that you can only use damage mod in the high OR low slot but not both.... Just in the same way you can't use two cloaks on one fit. "Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit" Check RND out here



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