- want short regen delays with good regen amounts, you Shield tank
- want constant regen underfire, you Armour tank ..

we just discussed faction based shield thresholds, even role based, something like this

CA 12
MI 10
GA 8
AM 6

Caldari:
Assault 12
Commando 12
Sentinel 11
Scout 11
Logistics 10

the shield stuff is multi-stage.

Stage 1 is straightening out recharge delays.

1A: This has a massive effect not only on survivability, but on fitting choices. Common wisdom is that a proper shield tank on an assault (if you don't want to just give in and put ferroscales on) is three regulators in the lows. That means a calassault has to devote eight slots to their tank versus a gal/amarr assault's four. One of the lows on a gal/am assault is usually reserved for biotics, sometimes two but usually two ferros or plates and one or two reps. By making regulators less mandatory for a good shield fit rather than absolutely critical it improves the calassault (and to a lesser degree, shield tanked minmatar suits) by a good deal. Suddenly damps, biotics and other modules become an option.

since when does the CR and RR put out 15% bonus against armor? The last update I remember was to make both of them -10/+10 towards shield/armor.

And about your damage mod point.....most people do is fit tank and damage on those armor fits. When guys are running around with 700+hp armor and 190hp shields, you already know what they're running.

CRs were never 15% to armor. It used to be -5%/+10% to shield/armor respectively. They have since modified it so both CR and RR yields the same bonus.

I'm not saying that those other mods are not useful. They can be but when you are in a gunfight, nothing helps more than tank and damage. The other mods help especially with aiding with situational awareness, or escaping, flanking, etc. But when it's time to show down, a kincat can't help you to strafe faster. What good is a regulator when you are taking consistent damage on an objective?

And of course, I can use damage mods on a cal fit but I'll be sacrificing my primary tank as opposed to armor fits which gets to keep their primary tank. And at the same time, they get to deal max damage. I can use armor plates to compensate but that defeats the purpose of shield tanking. I might as well, just use an armor suit which is better for it.

[
But don't you get more out of a weapon with a higher starting damage stat. So wouldn't a damage mod on a rail rifle actually be more effective than say an AR.

All this madness inspired me to try a new take on caldari.

Ck0 ass
x5 dm
x2 ferro
x1 reactive
Ishukone

Never have I seen people melt so fast...

No. What are those? /sarcasm









Lol don't hate cause I'm rockin 1.31 +5% +15%

Now hold on a second, why does the ARR have to take a hit with the nerf bat? It's already got a charge up time and a low ROF in comparison to every other weapon except the RR itself. Not to mention the ARR is one of the anti armor weapon's, nerfing that nerf's anti armor weapon's which are pretty insufficient unless your enemies are standing completely still.

1.31
I'm at work so I can't check, but I'm 99% sure.

I agree with Aeon. The fact that shield stats are all over the place needs correcting. Look at the Amarr sentinel: it has a better depleted recharge delay than the Minmatar sentinel, a dedicated shield suit. And it has better delays than the Gallente Assault. Why? It really looks like numbers were just drawn out of a hat when it comes to recharge delays and recharge rate. Aeon's proposal smooths that all out into something logical that we can build on. Just like Rattati did with the speed/ehp scale. Remember all the crying about that? Remember how unfounded it all was? Same thing here. This gives us a logical progression with which we can redo modules and we can more easily predict how they will function on various suits. When a shield regulator is of more benefit on an Amarr Sentinel then a Minmatar Sentinel, there is a huge problem.

Seriously, someone show me how the proposal is going to make any armor suit better at shield tanking than an equivalent shield suit. Put your money where your mouth is: I want to see numbers.

Got to agree. The basic shield mechanic feels fine. The Getting melted by Scramblers and CRs really does feel like the issue. There is a reason the kill feed if full of three guns, Carthium/Viziam/Boundless. They are the current OP selection. You would think with all the armor that RRs would be on top of the world. The issue is that those three are so OP for the moment that they get ran over dedicated Armor shredders. I would like to see the threshold increased, but otherwise the regen seems fine. In truth, all I have seen from the options presented so far are basically ways to make the Min suit even more broken. PG/CPU costs are out of line and armor tanking is much more beneficial because you get damage and HPs. Plus with a scrambler you get range. I find myself running a lot more Am suits these days because of it. If I run my cal it just gets melted faster than I can step back into a doorway. The regen does not matter if you are dead in 0.5 seconds. It only matters if you can actually survive an encounter, and right not the armor tankers have time to turn around and melt you before you can even kill them from behind. You take almost a full clip of ARR to kill an Am Assault. They take less than 20% of a clip to do the same to a Cal assault. That's the issue. Not regen rates. I want to survive the first fight. Then I can worry about hiding to regen.

Iv'e always used the ARR because it gets the job done at long, medium, and close range compared to the other rifles that are "supposed to be superior" to one another at different ranges. A slayer will run the things that are able to do everything with out giving a hindrace to different play styles. To me all rifles should have long ranges. If you want to be a close quarters guy get yourself a shotgun or a submachine gun. That is how all FPS have always been. Since this game has to follow a certain lore that is incompatible with FPS gameplay we can not advance anywhere.

What bothers me, and has always bothered me about HP mods, is that they are set on opposite sides of the Slot layout.

To my mind, they should have been on the same side. This would have lead to more of a sacrifice in terms of what kind of role you wanted to play.

If you wanted to dual tank, you couldn't significantly do so.

I think this should have been a design consideration from the get go for all related modules as well, like Precision and Profile as well, but primarily with regard to HP modules.